A Game of Crowns (Mafia)

1KBestK said:

Yeah, it's harder than it seems, at least when you're starting out. I'm still not very good, but I'm getting better. I've found even the minimal notes I've been taking have really helped. Reading people in mafia is a skill, and it takes some time to develop. If you've been paying attention to that kinda thing, I've been town every single game so far, and in nearly all of them I've been little to no help to town, and frequently been the target of town because of my low participation. It can be hard starting out to even know what's suspicious and what's not. Personally, I find it best for me to try and focus myself rather than try and take in the whole thread at once, which can be super overwhelming. Pick a person, read through their posts in the thread, and work from there. Don't bite off more than you can chew.

Ah, that's probably my fault. Been busy and haven't been sleeping well, so my energy levels are pretty low.

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The problem is that I am not just starting out. If I don't have the hang of this by now, chances are I am not going to get the hang of it 10 games from now. I am just not social enough to play games like this. I also do try to focus on people. I actually said there were two people I am focusing on right now, and I have also in every game since my break offered to do archive-dives for people by pulling relevant quotes and offering analysis and commentary for what that meant in the greater situation surrounding said quotes.

Nictis said:

No no, okay. Hold on.

How about we try looking at things in a different way? You're looking for something that they're saying that makes you read them one way or the other, how about we take a look at what is not being said instead? I'm going to make an assumption here and say that you think the Day 1 lynch was Town v. Town, so you've got Est who has been posting but hasn't been posting anything of substance. Maybe it's more scum sided because he was uninvested but was looking busy, or maybe he was dodging certain topics and avoiding calling out stuff that scum wouldn't know to be a landmine. If Meso has content but it matches what you might expect from Town or Scum, maybe look at the timing or the tone of the posts. Try pressuring, ask Meso some questions on stuff that is unrelated to the first Day, pull him into some topics that he didn't touch on. If TurtleDucks has not been posting anything, has Comi been continuing that trend? Is there someone else that you might have wanted to get more info on that you can ask about others?

I can't speak for everyone, but I'll say that you haven't been angering for me, and quality can only improve with practice. I just feel like you've been hearing the wrong things in what criticisms have been given.

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I have looked at what has not been said before. It's just that there's usually nothing alarming until later in the game when scum has to begin to lie more and face more confrontation with nightly information that I can put together the puzzle to see what piece is missing. Like, I could do a lot of what you are saying, but none of that solves the main problem which is that I operate better when I have a fuller picture. Full pictures, in previous games, haven't really begun to form until Day 3 and Day 4 when more nightly actions and flips have begun taking place to actually give me a lead. I don't have anything to ask until I actually think of something to follow up on, and that only happens in the later days. Likewise, Comi has only recently subbed in so I am giving him more time before I can actually form an opinion on how Comi is acting and coordinating it with what little info is on TD.

I have a feeling the "wrong things in what criticisms have been given" was reinforced by the BB thing, to which I will say that my current strategy was reinforced because what they had said wasn't true. It was very much true that I wasn't very active at that time and that very much is a valid criticism, but the reason I took the opposite example than what they said is because I had done what they claimed I didn't do in those two posts; which leads me to feeling that if people are not only going to ignore but straight up claim that I haven't done what I did when I am trying even when I don't know what to say, then I should just wait until I do know what to say. I am not going to get any favorable responses with half measures even if you guys say that I will, because you guys have proven that what you say you want to see and what you expect to see are two different things.

The lessons I have learned are as follows -

Game 1: I learned that when I get in to a sticky situation, I need to either double-down, or work closer with what tools I have available. I went in with half-measures hoping that would be enough, but the ever-vigilant Comi kept on me even after their initial reason for suspecting me (Orange shooter) went down the drain with Terra's death. I likely could have survived that game had I either stuck closer to my story and abandoned the pretense of being in a two-person faction (since my fake story would have matched with a one-person faction and we had an odd number to justify it), or bothered to coordinate with my partner closer so they didn't unnecessarily rat me out (this also led to a problem in my second game). I also had a major problem where I felt every single post was making me seem suspicious, so I didn't use my insanely powerful role on any but two days (and I never got to see it in action due to failures both nights) because I was afraid of being watched or tracked. That was a major problem and while I was a bit offended at TPK's statements, I can understand his frustration at that specific part.

Game 2: Hoo boy, let's start off with the smaller lesson that's connected to the game 1 thing. There are no house rules in Mafia. When QT pretended to be a bounty-hunting third-party, I believed him because of the reactions to both the last game's surrenders and because no one else seemed to have a problem with it during that same game. During the last game, people had done similar surrenders to the type that QT had appeared to be doing and no one ever questioned as to whether they were telling the truth (at least openly). Likewise, people weren't really questioning QT as to whether they were telling the truth either. This led me to believe that there was some kind of house rule in play where surrenders aren't one of the things you lie about. It didn't exactly help that that IS the way I personally play. You guys heavily doubted whether I was telling the truth as SK when I offered to simply off the remaining Mafia before letting you guys lynch me, but I was telling the truth. I play games like I play chess: when you've run out of viable moves to win, simply give an honorable forfeit. If there's no move you can make that will actually lead to victory, why delay endlessly?

The second, and more important, lesson was that I shouldn't try to play like you guys. I had tried to reform myself based on advice given to me before that game started, as well as by playing to how I perceived you guys to play. That ended as a giant garbage fire because attempting to play like you guys and apply "pressure" and following leads ended up with me looking like a sick satire of a Mafia player, made even worse by the fact that I was emboldened because I knew I was practically un-lynchable due to being Mayor. I then decided to take a break and simply follow some games to sharpen my analysis skills. It didn't really work out well because the only person I was actually able to read correctly was the noob with signs so obvious that anyone looking at the game could tell what was going on. The only thing I actually proved better at you guys is being genre savvy and paying attention to how the environment of the game influences role placement and power distribution, which is why I still view it as important despite your earlier dismissal of it this game. Mind you, I don't think it's something you should rely 100% on, but it should definitely influence your leans as to game structure until you begin to learn more about game structure yourself.

Game 3: I did fantastic in this game, and I really felt like I was actually playing Mafia for the first time ever. Playing SK was amazing - despite the fact that victory was practically impossible due to the double-layered game - and actually allowed me to use my strengths in the game. I didn't really learn anything important in this one other than the fact that you were surprisingly open to my false backstory when I expected you to be one of the more cynical people. I suppose I could also count the fact that it highlighted once again that I am bad at reading people, given that Nani was my highest town read yet he turned out to be the Godfather (and apparently turns into Tom Sawyer when he's angry : P) and thereby doomed what little chance I had of winning.

This did teach me something that turned out to be flawed, and I will point it out in Game 4.

Game 4: As I said, BB reinforced my growing view that the best way to learn is through paying attention to how people react to what I say and do rather than necessarily how I am told people want me to do, because people very often have visions of what they want to see yet fail to recognize what they tell others (me in this case) to do may not end up matching with that vision and therefore they fail to recognize those very actions were taken. More importantly, this game pointed out that I need to figure out how to be more assertive. I was able to get by in Game 3 because you were surprisingly willing to be my voice in Game 3, meaning all I needed to do was put information out there and let you take it in how you do normally. That fell apart in Game 4 because all the proactive Town leaders were dead and I had no one to really help along. I had so many reads and suspicions near the end of my game, but I didn't know how to push them (like how Wyatt quickly fell to the wayside of any and all lynches) and others I didn't know how to voice (like how I did indeed find Comi suspicious by how incredibly helpful and accepting of my Vig claim he was, when most vets are suspicious for at least a while). Like with what happened with Dovah in Game 2 though, I know that I don't know how to lead properly so I don't push hard on people who are supporting me who I am finding suspicious because I don't know what I will do if my support base is wrecked and I only get myself lynched as a result.