A Game of Crowns (Mafia)

OH HAI


Some quick hits:

Been busy, been doing a big post. Patience.

But here is the flavor as of current I guess: (Before page 15)

Evenstar = Town
Absum = Scum
Happerry = Town
Nictis = Nictis :V (Town)
TurtleDucks = Ugh... why...
Nanimani = Ugh...
1k = Scum
Hobo = Neutral
Pyrros = Slightly Low Neutral
Cyric = Neutral
Mesonixian = Scum
Not Mentioned = Literally nothing.

Things should speed up now that I'm about to hit things I've tried to parse in terms of being a player instead of things just as a reader.

Almost every read on this list is the direct opposite of mine... have my shortcomings caught up to me once again?


@Absum if/when you see this, you once said you found some interaction between Nictis and ES on D1 strange/weird/off, care to explain/expand on why that is?
 
Almost every read on this list is the direct opposite of mine... have my shortcomings caught up to me once again?

That read list was from page 15 so only halfway through day 1, combine with I play the game weird and consider basically everyone scum at game start. Having different views than me isn't inherently wrong, and I missed you on that list somehow even though I had a town read of you at that point. Certainly never take anything I say as truth, or even correct, I enjoy lying in these games and can fabricate entire rationals on people I believe are so painfully town if I really want. Always trust your own intuition and analysis, just don't be unwilling to examine other people's arguments thats how you get pocketed by scum.
 
Holy sh#t that wall of text, and no links to boot?... Comi you rood bastard

Im ignoring this for now, also light scumread because its like hes too concerned with looking busy, wants to be seen doing things, etc.

And Im not a fan of this... idk, agenda-less notetaking? Color it my responsibility to focus on this asap I guess

A role that specifically is told that you, Absum, are Town. And that that role is Bodyguard, which would mean that you have a designated protector. ie: The person that the Scum need dead.

During Day 1, I had a thought that you might have been another VIP, the Princess perhaps, and that would explain what was going on between you and Turtle. The big curveball that I thought I saw in the setup, so yes, it was eyecatching.

lol Nictis get out of my head

Current thoughts on D2:
Im surprised that 2 people thought QT was still alive...is this a real mistake, or scum taking refuge in audacity?

And now Im paranoid over Absum
 
Okay, took some time to cool down a bit because I felt like I was sounding whiny.

Yeah, it's harder than it seems, at least when you're starting out. I'm still not very good, but I'm getting better. I've found even the minimal notes I've been taking have really helped. Reading people in mafia is a skill, and it takes some time to develop. If you've been paying attention to that kinda thing, I've been town every single game so far, and in nearly all of them I've been little to no help to town, and frequently been the target of town because of my low participation. It can be hard starting out to even know what's suspicious and what's not. Personally, I find it best for me to try and focus myself rather than try and take in the whole thread at once, which can be super overwhelming. Pick a person, read through their posts in the thread, and work from there. Don't bite off more than you can chew.

Ah, that's probably my fault. Been busy and haven't been sleeping well, so my energy levels are pretty low.
The problem is that I am not just starting out. If I don't have the hang of this by now, chances are I am not going to get the hang of it 10 games from now. I am just not social enough to play games like this. I also do try to focus on people. I actually said there were two people I am focusing on right now, and I have also in every game since my break offered to do archive-dives for people by pulling relevant quotes and offering analysis and commentary for what that meant in the greater situation surrounding said quotes.
No no, okay. Hold on.

How about we try looking at things in a different way? You're looking for something that they're saying that makes you read them one way or the other, how about we take a look at what is not being said instead? I'm going to make an assumption here and say that you think the Day 1 lynch was Town v. Town, so you've got Est who has been posting but hasn't been posting anything of substance. Maybe it's more scum sided because he was uninvested but was looking busy, or maybe he was dodging certain topics and avoiding calling out stuff that scum wouldn't know to be a landmine. If Meso has content but it matches what you might expect from Town or Scum, maybe look at the timing or the tone of the posts. Try pressuring, ask Meso some questions on stuff that is unrelated to the first Day, pull him into some topics that he didn't touch on. If TurtleDucks has not been posting anything, has Comi been continuing that trend? Is there someone else that you might have wanted to get more info on that you can ask about others?

I can't speak for everyone, but I'll say that you haven't been angering for me, and quality can only improve with practice. I just feel like you've been hearing the wrong things in what criticisms have been given.
I have looked at what has not been said before. It's just that there's usually nothing alarming until later in the game when scum has to begin to lie more and face more confrontation with nightly information that I can put together the puzzle to see what piece is missing. Like, I could do a lot of what you are saying, but none of that solves the main problem which is that I operate better when I have a fuller picture. Full pictures, in previous games, haven't really begun to form until Day 3 and Day 4 when more nightly actions and flips have begun taking place to actually give me a lead. I don't have anything to ask until I actually think of something to follow up on, and that only happens in the later days. Likewise, Comi has only recently subbed in so I am giving him more time before I can actually form an opinion on how Comi is acting and coordinating it with what little info is on TD.

I have a feeling the "wrong things in what criticisms have been given" was reinforced by the BB thing, to which I will say that my current strategy was reinforced because what they had said wasn't true. It was very much true that I wasn't very active at that time and that very much is a valid criticism, but the reason I took the opposite example than what they said is because I had done what they claimed I didn't do in those two posts; which leads me to feeling that if people are not only going to ignore but straight up claim that I haven't done what I did when I am trying even when I don't know what to say, then I should just wait until I do know what to say. I am not going to get any favorable responses with half measures even if you guys say that I will, because you guys have proven that what you say you want to see and what you expect to see are two different things.

The lessons I have learned are as follows -

Game 1: I learned that when I get in to a sticky situation, I need to either double-down, or work closer with what tools I have available. I went in with half-measures hoping that would be enough, but the ever-vigilant Comi kept on me even after their initial reason for suspecting me (Orange shooter) went down the drain with Terra's death. I likely could have survived that game had I either stuck closer to my story and abandoned the pretense of being in a two-person faction (since my fake story would have matched with a one-person faction and we had an odd number to justify it), or bothered to coordinate with my partner closer so they didn't unnecessarily rat me out (this also led to a problem in my second game). I also had a major problem where I felt every single post was making me seem suspicious, so I didn't use my insanely powerful role on any but two days (and I never got to see it in action due to failures both nights) because I was afraid of being watched or tracked. That was a major problem and while I was a bit offended at TPK's statements, I can understand his frustration at that specific part.

Game 2: Hoo boy, let's start off with the smaller lesson that's connected to the game 1 thing. There are no house rules in Mafia. When QT pretended to be a bounty-hunting third-party, I believed him because of the reactions to both the last game's surrenders and because no one else seemed to have a problem with it during that same game. During the last game, people had done similar surrenders to the type that QT had appeared to be doing and no one ever questioned as to whether they were telling the truth (at least openly). Likewise, people weren't really questioning QT as to whether they were telling the truth either. This led me to believe that there was some kind of house rule in play where surrenders aren't one of the things you lie about. It didn't exactly help that that IS the way I personally play. You guys heavily doubted whether I was telling the truth as SK when I offered to simply off the remaining Mafia before letting you guys lynch me, but I was telling the truth. I play games like I play chess: when you've run out of viable moves to win, simply give an honorable forfeit. If there's no move you can make that will actually lead to victory, why delay endlessly?

The second, and more important, lesson was that I shouldn't try to play like you guys. I had tried to reform myself based on advice given to me before that game started, as well as by playing to how I perceived you guys to play. That ended as a giant garbage fire because attempting to play like you guys and apply "pressure" and following leads ended up with me looking like a sick satire of a Mafia player, made even worse by the fact that I was emboldened because I knew I was practically un-lynchable due to being Mayor. I then decided to take a break and simply follow some games to sharpen my analysis skills. It didn't really work out well because the only person I was actually able to read correctly was the noob with signs so obvious that anyone looking at the game could tell what was going on. The only thing I actually proved better at you guys is being genre savvy and paying attention to how the environment of the game influences role placement and power distribution, which is why I still view it as important despite your earlier dismissal of it this game. Mind you, I don't think it's something you should rely 100% on, but it should definitely influence your leans as to game structure until you begin to learn more about game structure yourself.

Game 3: I did fantastic in this game, and I really felt like I was actually playing Mafia for the first time ever. Playing SK was amazing - despite the fact that victory was practically impossible due to the double-layered game - and actually allowed me to use my strengths in the game. I didn't really learn anything important in this one other than the fact that you were surprisingly open to my false backstory when I expected you to be one of the more cynical people. I suppose I could also count the fact that it highlighted once again that I am bad at reading people, given that Nani was my highest town read yet he turned out to be the Godfather (and apparently turns into Tom Sawyer when he's angry : P) and thereby doomed what little chance I had of winning.

This did teach me something that turned out to be flawed, and I will point it out in Game 4.

Game 4: As I said, BB reinforced my growing view that the best way to learn is through paying attention to how people react to what I say and do rather than necessarily how I am told people want me to do, because people very often have visions of what they want to see yet fail to recognize what they tell others (me in this case) to do may not end up matching with that vision and therefore they fail to recognize those very actions were taken. More importantly, this game pointed out that I need to figure out how to be more assertive. I was able to get by in Game 3 because you were surprisingly willing to be my voice in Game 3, meaning all I needed to do was put information out there and let you take it in how you do normally. That fell apart in Game 4 because all the proactive Town leaders were dead and I had no one to really help along. I had so many reads and suspicions near the end of my game, but I didn't know how to push them (like how Wyatt quickly fell to the wayside of any and all lynches) and others I didn't know how to voice (like how I did indeed find Comi suspicious by how incredibly helpful and accepting of my Vig claim he was, when most vets are suspicious for at least a while). Like with what happened with Dovah in Game 2 though, I know that I don't know how to lead properly so I don't push hard on people who are supporting me who I am finding suspicious because I don't know what I will do if my support base is wrecked and I only get myself lynched as a result.

Now that I have explained things from my point of view, I am entirely willing to hear your thoughts since you have been patient about this.
PyrrosWarrior: 183, not sure why town should be paranoid about about the doc claims, I totally get frustrating, not sure I get paranoid around it.
I was referring to the "is he Jester, is he not Jester" part of the last game, not the Doc thing from last game. The whole fact made me really jumpy about spurious claims so early. That was a really stressful time for me last game, and seeing a possible second-coming of those types of claims made me nervous about it.

Okay, now that I've got that out of the way, I will go ahead and see how the thread has updated since. I kinda got distracted for a few hours while I was typing this.
 
Holy sh#t that wall of text, and no links to boot?... Comi you rood bastard

Im ignoring this for now, also light scumread because its like hes too concerned with looking busy, wants to be seen doing things, etc.

And Im not a fan of this... idk, agenda-less notetaking? Color it my responsibility to focus on this asap I guess

Its literally my google doc of notes :V but I am rood!
Get it that that isn't coming across readable will fix it to the best of my ability in the repost.

Of course, I want to look busy, because I replaced in and really need to consume the week of game time everyone else has over me, especially replacing into a strange position. I'm trying to get a discussion going and I'm glad I posted those unfinished notes because at least it got people talking, even if not nearly as much as I was hoping, and hoping there was going to be more posts like Nanimani's on it instead of the I'm not reading it posts but at least its a plot point I guess.

Wow, that is a fascinating low number of votes.
 
@PyrrosWarrior Actually have been hearing from you, but hoping to see your thoughts now that more substantial things are being said. It's still a bit cloak and dagger but... Right, thoughts?
I'm going to be completely honest and public here to everyone reading this. My role has given me zero lore information about what is going on so any structural guesses I have about the game have been completely based on the OP and day posts. As a result, a lot of your posts intrigue me because they signal you as likely a high information player and therefore possibly trustworthy, but I don't have enough information to tell whether or not you are missing information as scum and casting blame on someone else as missing information (basically kinda what you are accusing Absum of), or if what you are saying does indeed signal your town-ness as you are trying to show and use push with the Absum and TD situation.

I am also of the mind that the investigatory roles of Town should keep a close eye on the flavor text describing the kill.
@QTesseract is found within his quarters, a pulped mass of blood, bone shards, and grey matter where his skull used to be.
It will probably come in handy if your roles mention what the person you are spying on looks like, since it'd have to be someone that would be prone to absolutely brutalizing rather than a mere assassin. I also find it likely they have more than one type of kill both based on the fact that this was very clearly not an assassin's blow, and from how mafia usually has multiple kill types.

If we are watching out for assassins, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a Ninja or Poisoner as their actual "Assassin" character in lore.
 
A role that specifically is told that you, Absum, are Town. And that that role is Bodyguard, which would mean that you have a designated protector. ie: The person that the Scum need dead.

During Day 1, I had a thought that you might have been another VIP, the Princess perhaps, and that would explain what was going on between you and Turtle. The big curveball that I thought I saw in the setup, so yes, it was eyecatching.

You aren't the King's heir, but you know enough about the setup to know that the heir would be protected. You don't know who the actual heir is, so why did you know this?
Ok, look. I only ever actively considered that it might look like this when I told you what I thought TD might have been. Before that I was passively aware of it when you asked me to name a specific role, but I didn't particularly care because I thought that would fizzle out anyway.

Then second, I know nothing about the setup aside my own role and flavour, which give me no information on anything or anyone else. That you have decided that me thinking you unnecessarily revealing yourself as a PR and randomly guessing at NK-proof roles and speculating on mafia only needing to kill one person when the new flavour practically spelled that out means I know things seems to be you getting influenced by your own knowledge.

And if you're wondering why I felt someone knowing me was even an option when I know so little about the setup: My flavour does imply that I am at least somewhat famous, even if I would not usually have expected anyone to start with me revealed. That it was an (unlikely) option was because of TD's behaviour and your specific question.

@Absum if/when you see this, you once said you found some interaction between Nictis and ES on D1 strange/weird/off, care to explain/expand on why that is?
Quote me, please, because I couldn't find what you mean? I searched for me saying Nictis though so possible I missed it.

I think I might have agreed with someone else on some interaction once? Maybe?
 
It will probably come in handy if your roles mention what the person you are spying on looks like, since it'd have to be someone that would be prone to absolutely brutalizing rather than a mere assassin. I also find it likely they have more than one type of kill both based on the fact that this was very clearly not an assassin's blow, and from how mafia usually has multiple kill types.

If we are watching out for assassins, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a Ninja or Poisoner as their actual "Assassin" character in lore.
Err, the flavour of the opening post is that we've been invaded by barbarians. While I did consider it might be a strongman kill I'm not sure either way. Strongman D1 seems odd to me.
 
Err, the flavour of the opening post is that we've been invaded by barbarians. While I did consider it might be a strongman kill I'm not sure either way. Strongman D1 seems odd to me.
I didn't say anything about strongman though? All I said is that it would be someone who probably looks like they would brutalize another i.e. someone that would look thuggish or incredibly bulky (and possibly carrying blunt weapons as opposed to sharp weapons).
 
I didn't say anything about strongman though? All I said is that it would be someone who probably looks like they would brutalize another i.e. someone that would look thuggish or incredibly bulky (and possibly carrying blunt weapons as opposed to sharp weapons).
It's just me commenting with some of my thoughts because you talked about multiple kill types.
 
Alright.

@mesonoxian Most of your interactions have been with Rosen, I was wondering if you had any thoughts on the events of today? You felt pretty good to me Day 1 but the near disappearance Day 2 is concerning.
@Nanimani Got two questions for you, is it a good time to share the 'Reasons' you were voting Rosen Day 1, and did anything interesting happen Night One that you want to share?
@Cyricubed how are things progressing over there?
@ComiTurtle Got any thoughts on the overall game, setup, etc? Wanted to ask now to see how things change later.
 
@Nanimani Got two questions for you, is it a good time to share the 'Reasons' you were voting Rosen Day 1, and did anything interesting happen Night One that you want to share?
Also, got RB'd. Guess someone thought Rosen was right or, considering of often RBer tends to go to Scum, scum RBer thought this'd be a good cover story for the eventual claim.

Anyway I just kind of fucked up this Day (even ignoring the big fail with the ISO :V) I should just have immediately voted for someone at the start of the Day instead of this weird-ass avoidance, then there might have been some more discussion at least.

So for now I'll do the vote I wanted to do at Day start

[X] Lynch Nanimani

I will give (not supremely convincing, obviously, or I would not have done this stupid waffling) reasons once I'm back from dinner in a few hours, will also do a quick ISO to see if it is actually still a vote I'm ok with because I haven't taken mroe recent posts into consideration yet. I'm also ok with lynching one of the less active people at this point, which admittedly feels bad as they all seem to have midterms (or at least I know LttL, Ban and ES do) but I don't really know wtf right now either.

Also @Est do you think you could tell us why you're voting Ban? I know you had a big post at first but lost it (rip) but by now I'd really like to see some of those reasons even if you don't have time/motivation for a big post.
 
I'd like to play a mafia game, but it depends on how many players they are. The big games we've been having lately scare me, and I want no part of an 18+ player game when I'm this busy.
Wow, we're Town? I thought we were just a maf without any way to communicate :V
It's called asking the GM :V
Okay, let's actually go serious mode for a sec if you've got a serious reason. No. I have no quicktopic, with him or anyone else.
I am town, so there's theoretically more than a 50% chance we're on the same team, but I have no way of knowing that and am not assuming that this is the case.
Well, don't I just feel ignorant. Feels kinda like I shouldn't be more ignorant than other town but /shrug. Guess I'll accept it.
Wasn't the idea that even if they were meme answers, they were still answers someone had to come up with?
Also Reasons, but the Reasons are actually just... only a reason to vote him in the absence of anything more substantial.
Also, got RB'd. Guess someone thought Rosen was right or, considering of often RBer tends to go to Scum, scum RBer thought this'd be a good cover story for the eventual claim.
Burgers are in oven, time to post read.

So, aside from two small things, Nani just feels really neutral to me. There was a lot of "I am Town" from Nani Day 1, which is probably NAI but makes me feel somewhat suspicious, and Nani had never answered Rosen's question but had commented on Rosen's dismissal of the meme answers as something that people still had to come up with.

So... I got nothing on Nani, which is why I was trying for a cheap shot to see if Nani might have been making up the roleblock.

[Speculation Redacted for further consideration]
 
Gotta vote for someone, and I'm not feeling Nani. While I dislike how Evenstar revealed information, they do still feel town to me, at least for the moment...
Est pretty much addressed my issues immediately so...

[X]Lynch Look to the Left

Yep.
 
@Nanimani Got two questions for you, is it a good time to share the 'Reasons' you were voting Rosen Day 1, and did anything interesting happen Night One that you want to share?
1: I thought I might've already let that slip. Noticed some people kinda... just brushing away concerns on him whose arguments I didn't like and put them yellow in my notes. Rosen coming up scum would've pushed them into a solid orange. That said, it was a bit too early to call them out on it, and I'm worried they'd fade into unoffensive to me if I mentioned what I was doing. You can argue that'd in itself be suspicious, but that's how people in general're looking to me, so it'd just be a trend not continuing.

2: I said I was roleblocked, you know. If you want the flavor, thorny vines of magic binding me. Sharp thorns. Ow thorns. Mentioned my trying to get out of them got me bleeding. Disappeared when the sun rose.

*frowns*

It's appreciated, but I was trying something cheap there.
What was it, by the by? Please don't expect me to have seen it. Absum says his thing may've been obvious, but I didn't even realize he was making an attempt at scumhunting at all today until he flat-out said it.

So... I got nothing on Nani, which is why I was trying for a cheap shot to see if Nani might have been making up the roleblock.

Okay, but why would I have done that? If I were scum, I wouldn't risk that on *N1* with me unaware of whether a roleblocker was around. Now if I was maf and got a fellow maf to not RB anyone to claim RB'd, I could see that. But not just making it up wholecloth.
 
1: I thought I might've already let that slip. Noticed some people kinda... just brushing away concerns on him whose arguments I didn't like and put them yellow in my notes. Rosen coming up scum would've pushed them into a solid orange. That said, it was a bit too early to call them out on it, and I'm worried they'd fade into unoffensive to me if I mentioned what I was doing. You can argue that'd in itself be suspicious, but that's how people in general're looking to me, so it'd just be a trend not continuing.
Also, I just kinda thought saying Reasons was funny, but that's not a reason reason.
 
Gotta vote for someone, and I'm not feeling Nani. While I dislike how Evenstar revealed information, they do still feel town to me, at least for the moment...
Est pretty much addressed my issues immediately so...

[X]Lynch Look to the Left

Yep.
ngl, I am actually really okay with this lynch as well. I think that Absum is scum, but I'm also trying to figure out why that would be the interaction as scum. @ComiTurtle thoughts?
Okay, but why would I have done that? If I were scum, I wouldn't risk that on *N1* with me unaware of whether a roleblocker was around. Now if I was maf and got a fellow maf to not RB anyone to claim RB'd, I could see that. But not just making it up wholecloth.
Bit more of the second, or having an expectation that the game wouldn't have a roleblocker at all. It didn't really cost anything to try and see if you 'forgot' about it.
 
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