Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest
- Thread starter Oshha
- Start date
- Original
Well the Midlanders could maybe count as a, if brief, third enemy I suppose.
Knight Draco
Tea Sipping Advocate of the Devil
- Location
- North America
War in the north against nomads,
South against Urth.
2 entirely different factions separate from each other are warring us.
Maybe, if we are lucky/QM is merciful.
right, but it takes 3 to actually get the trait.
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
[X] [Midland] Claim the midlanders as a conquest of the People. (Midlanders become a Vassal of the Arthwyd.)
[X] [Merntir] Food & Warriors. Support the Merntir as best you can by sending both warriors and food to aid them. (-1 Temp Martial & -1 Temp Econ)
[X] [Refugee] They can settle down amongst the Arthwyd. (Refugees settle in Arthwyd lands, gain +3 Settle Land progress, lose status Merntir Refugees.)
[X] [Evalyn] North. Aid Cerwyn in defeating the Boarfolk and freeing the Merntir.
[X] [Rock] Yes. See if other rocks can produce similar secrets. (-2 Temp Econ, Chance of Innovation)
[X] [Merntir] Food & Warriors. Support the Merntir as best you can by sending both warriors and food to aid them. (-1 Temp Martial & -1 Temp Econ)
[X] [Refugee] They can settle down amongst the Arthwyd. (Refugees settle in Arthwyd lands, gain +3 Settle Land progress, lose status Merntir Refugees.)
[X] [Evalyn] North. Aid Cerwyn in defeating the Boarfolk and freeing the Merntir.
[X] [Rock] Yes. See if other rocks can produce similar secrets. (-2 Temp Econ, Chance of Innovation)
[X] [Midland] Claim the midlanders as a conquest of the People. (Midlanders become a Vassal of the Arthwyd.)
[X] [Refugee] They can return to the Merntir (Refugees go back to the Merntir, lose status Merntir Refugees.)
I have only two horses in the race and that despite what I said to myself, I might end up making another omake because of the factor of 'THE FUN NEVER STOPS IN EPIC AGES' which causes my muse to jump up and down happily.
The first horse is the vassalage. Beachhead is a thing. The argumentation of 'we need a buffer state' sort of misses the point that vassals are buffer states. And though our values make it so that even losing vassals stings, they are a) still buffer states and b) controllable buffer states. If the threat of too much expansion is what you lads are worried about there are options to:
Another crisis, that's what.
The second horse is the settling of the refugees and well, Cerwyn is on task. Her rebellion already conquered three villages, wrenching them back from the Boarfolk. Outnumbered, outgunned, fighting against the grandson of the Scourge Vervov, her impact is a sheer surprise to the calculation.
So, we will (as the vote is sure to progress) send her our weapons and our grains. But you know what's more important to send back to her? Her people. The refugees who fled their hometown. The refugees who wants to return to their ancestral homeland. Settling them in our heartlands, while not something I view as a disservice (they are People), is missing the point a bit. The Arthwyd lands is their homeland, but it's not Merntir lands. This might hearten Cerwyn, doubling her efforts to fight against the boarbarians. Morale is important in these times, after all.
[X] [Refugee] They can return to the Merntir (Refugees go back to the Merntir, lose status Merntir Refugees.)
I have only two horses in the race and that despite what I said to myself, I might end up making another omake because of the factor of 'THE FUN NEVER STOPS IN EPIC AGES' which causes my muse to jump up and down happily.
The first horse is the vassalage. Beachhead is a thing. The argumentation of 'we need a buffer state' sort of misses the point that vassals are buffer states. And though our values make it so that even losing vassals stings, they are a) still buffer states and b) controllable buffer states. If the threat of too much expansion is what you lads are worried about there are options to:
- Integrate Vassal, a staple in PoC to stop the snowball Vassals nomming the surrounding areas; or
- Convert to Marsh. Admittedly, we most likely do not yet have unlocked the social tech needed to have that action but considering that these sorts of troubles is what brings innovation to the forefront, there's no harm in trying.
Another crisis, that's what.
The second horse is the settling of the refugees and well, Cerwyn is on task. Her rebellion already conquered three villages, wrenching them back from the Boarfolk. Outnumbered, outgunned, fighting against the grandson of the Scourge Vervov, her impact is a sheer surprise to the calculation.
So, we will (as the vote is sure to progress) send her our weapons and our grains. But you know what's more important to send back to her? Her people. The refugees who fled their hometown. The refugees who wants to return to their ancestral homeland. Settling them in our heartlands, while not something I view as a disservice (they are People), is missing the point a bit. The Arthwyd lands is their homeland, but it's not Merntir lands. This might hearten Cerwyn, doubling her efforts to fight against the boarbarians. Morale is important in these times, after all.
- Location
- PA
[X] [Midland] Claim the midlanders as a conquest of the People. (Midlanders become a Vassal of the Arthwyd.)
Necromancer protocol-DO NOT LEAVE CITIZENS FOR THEM TO FARM! Make them work for those bodies!
[X] [Merntir] Food & Warriors. Support the Merntir as best you can by sending both warriors and food to aid them. (-1 Temp Martial & -1 Temp Econ)
We're gonna want to make sure these guys don't get rolled, and that's because...
[X] [Refugee] They can return to the Merntir (Refugees go back to the Merntir, lose status Merntir Refugees.)
They're going home, and they're going to rebuild.
[X] [Evalyn] South. Assist Cadyn in defeating Urth and his army of the walking dead.
Urth hath walked these lands for the last time. It is time that he did as the dead should do.
[X] [Rock] Yes. Experiment with what has already been discovered. (-2 Temp Econ, Chance of Innovation)
Eh, we've enough issues to sort out that we should do that first THEN play with the rocks.
Necromancer protocol-DO NOT LEAVE CITIZENS FOR THEM TO FARM! Make them work for those bodies!
[X] [Merntir] Food & Warriors. Support the Merntir as best you can by sending both warriors and food to aid them. (-1 Temp Martial & -1 Temp Econ)
We're gonna want to make sure these guys don't get rolled, and that's because...
[X] [Refugee] They can return to the Merntir (Refugees go back to the Merntir, lose status Merntir Refugees.)
They're going home, and they're going to rebuild.
[X] [Evalyn] South. Assist Cadyn in defeating Urth and his army of the walking dead.
Urth hath walked these lands for the last time. It is time that he did as the dead should do.
[X] [Rock] Yes. Experiment with what has already been discovered. (-2 Temp Econ, Chance of Innovation)
Eh, we've enough issues to sort out that we should do that first THEN play with the rocks.
Monk Penguin
Way of the Open Flipper
- Location
- USA
[X] [Midland] Claim the midlanders as a conquest of the People. (Midlanders become a Vassal of the Arthwyd.)
[X] [Merntir] Food & Warriors. Support the Merntir as best you can by sending both warriors and food to aid them. (-1 Temp Martial & -1 Temp Econ)
[X] [Refugee] They can settle down amongst the Arthwyd. (Refugees settle in Arthwyd lands, gain +3 Settle Land progress, lose status Merntir Refugees.)
[X] [Evalyn] South. Assist Cadyn in defeating Urth and his army of the walking dead.
[X] [Rock] Yes. See if other rocks can produce similar secrets. (-2 Temp Econ, Chance of Innovation)
[X] [Merntir] Food & Warriors. Support the Merntir as best you can by sending both warriors and food to aid them. (-1 Temp Martial & -1 Temp Econ)
[X] [Refugee] They can settle down amongst the Arthwyd. (Refugees settle in Arthwyd lands, gain +3 Settle Land progress, lose status Merntir Refugees.)
[X] [Evalyn] South. Assist Cadyn in defeating Urth and his army of the walking dead.
[X] [Rock] Yes. See if other rocks can produce similar secrets. (-2 Temp Econ, Chance of Innovation)
[X] [Midland] Leave the midlanders be, free of Urth's rule. (Leave the Midlanders alone.)
[X] [Merntir] Food & Warriors. Support the Merntir as best you can by sending both warriors and food to aid them. (-1 Temp Martial & -1 Temp Econ)
[X] [Refugee] They can settle down amongst the Arthwyd. (Refugees settle in Arthwyd lands, gain +3 Settle Land progress, lose status Merntir Refugees.)
[X] [Evalyn] South. Assist Cadyn in defeating Urth and his army of the walking dead.
[X] [Rock] Yes. See if other rocks can produce similar secrets. (-2 Temp Econ, Chance of Innovation)
[X] [Merntir] Food & Warriors. Support the Merntir as best you can by sending both warriors and food to aid them. (-1 Temp Martial & -1 Temp Econ)
[X] [Refugee] They can settle down amongst the Arthwyd. (Refugees settle in Arthwyd lands, gain +3 Settle Land progress, lose status Merntir Refugees.)
[X] [Evalyn] South. Assist Cadyn in defeating Urth and his army of the walking dead.
[X] [Rock] Yes. See if other rocks can produce similar secrets. (-2 Temp Econ, Chance of Innovation)
Knight Draco
Tea Sipping Advocate of the Devil
- Location
- North America
yeah I know.
The first war against the Merntir.
The war with the Nomads.
The war against Urth.
Three defensive wars.
Wait where did it say she took back three villages all ready? Because if that's the case I would switch my vote to sending them back then.
EDIT: just reread, can't believe I miss that. Changing vote. Let's send our people back home dammit.
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- Location
- United States
Here:
"As someone who was training to be a Catclaw before Seer's Village fell, Cerwyn has proven herself both an excellent warrior and a warleader that is peer to the likes of Evalyn and Cadyn. As Vasov has been consolidating his hold over the eastern half of the Merntir and the Boarfolk tribes ruling it, Cerwyn has successfully taken back the oldest three cities of the Merntir and its pushing outwards to the north and east."
She is already pushing them back on her own and has reclaimed the three oldest of the cities.
Knight Draco
Tea Sipping Advocate of the Devil
- Location
- North America
Ty, reread it and changed vote accordingly. If we already have a foothold, then we can send them back to their homes.
its 3 wars at the SAME TIME. not total.
- Location
- Somewhere
[X] [Midland] Claim the midlanders as a conquest of the People. (Midlanders become a Vassal of the Arthwyd.)
[X] [Merntir] Food & Warriors. Support the Merntir as best you can by sending both warriors and food to aid them. (-1 Temp Martial & -1 Temp Econ)
[X] [Refugee] They can return to the Merntir (Refugees go back to the Merntir, lose status Merntir Refugees.)
[X] [Evalyn] South. Assist Cadyn in defeating Urth and his army of the walking dead.
[X] [Rock] Yes. Experiment with what has already been discovered. (-2 Temp Econ, Chance of Innovation)
[X] [Merntir] Food & Warriors. Support the Merntir as best you can by sending both warriors and food to aid them. (-1 Temp Martial & -1 Temp Econ)
[X] [Refugee] They can return to the Merntir (Refugees go back to the Merntir, lose status Merntir Refugees.)
[X] [Evalyn] South. Assist Cadyn in defeating Urth and his army of the walking dead.
[X] [Rock] Yes. Experiment with what has already been discovered. (-2 Temp Econ, Chance of Innovation)
Knight Draco
Tea Sipping Advocate of the Devil
- Location
- North America
Yeah.
I said we would get legendary defenders when we beat urth and the nomads(at least from the information given)
After that we would have won a total of three wars.
Knight Draco, have you had your coffee or is it really late? Because like... I don't think you read what you just said right.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Okay. So, the one option here I keep on turning over in my head is the problem with the Merntir refugees.
Settling them with the Arthwyd turns them into a source of economic power for our own use, though once the fighting ends they will become a time sink for shrines and trails for a while.
Sending them back to the Merntir means that if things continue to go well, they will be a source of economic power necessary for Merntir sufficiency and stability, but if things go bad, we're right back with a pending refugee crisis.
In universe, I guess the in-universe messaging could either be:
(a) either expressing doubt in Cerwyn OR being very welcoming and accepting of our troubled cousins.
(b) either showing support for and trust in Cerwyn OR dumping all these refugees back in the place they just escaped from.
Does everyone think this is correct? Or am I missing something?
I am having trouble deciding. Currently, my vote is to settle the refugees among the Arthwyd. It's a quick and easy econ, pop, and area boost that will be helpful in the coming war(s) and we know the Merntir will assimilate quickly and easily.
On the other hand, I'm not looking forward to the infrastructure time sink this will result in.
But, if the enough of the People are continuing life as normal that we are getting a tech upgrade from them, it follows their will be some auto infrastructure work.
With the Merntir, sending the refugees back will go a long way to giving Cerwyn more options to make herself mechanically. Which will make victory there more likely, especially if the Arthwyd get bogged down with the undead.
But, wouldn't it be a good thing us if the Merntir were more reliant? Especially after the spectacular failure earlier?
...after this my reasoning starts going into circles.
Settling them with the Arthwyd turns them into a source of economic power for our own use, though once the fighting ends they will become a time sink for shrines and trails for a while.
Sending them back to the Merntir means that if things continue to go well, they will be a source of economic power necessary for Merntir sufficiency and stability, but if things go bad, we're right back with a pending refugee crisis.
In universe, I guess the in-universe messaging could either be:
(a) either expressing doubt in Cerwyn OR being very welcoming and accepting of our troubled cousins.
(b) either showing support for and trust in Cerwyn OR dumping all these refugees back in the place they just escaped from.
Does everyone think this is correct? Or am I missing something?
I am having trouble deciding. Currently, my vote is to settle the refugees among the Arthwyd. It's a quick and easy econ, pop, and area boost that will be helpful in the coming war(s) and we know the Merntir will assimilate quickly and easily.
On the other hand, I'm not looking forward to the infrastructure time sink this will result in.
But, if the enough of the People are continuing life as normal that we are getting a tech upgrade from them, it follows their will be some auto infrastructure work.
With the Merntir, sending the refugees back will go a long way to giving Cerwyn more options to make herself mechanically. Which will make victory there more likely, especially if the Arthwyd get bogged down with the undead.
But, wouldn't it be a good thing us if the Merntir were more reliant? Especially after the spectacular failure earlier?
...after this my reasoning starts going into circles.
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Pretty much. Keeping the refugees means its MUCH harder to retake the lost villages
So pretty much 'continue' means getting more lead. Not really useful for much except sling ammo and art
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- Location
- United States
One of the tags in this quest are : "Narrative trumps stats every time"
When I make these sorts of decisions in votes, I generally look towards the narrative and see if I prefer that, and then try to finagle the stats to work best with the narrative that I want.
Cerwyn (the rebellion leader) is currently crushing the boarfolk, and has retaken the original three Merntir cities, the ones last to fall as the refugees fled. We are already sending her food and warriors, by sending these refugees back to their homes it is showing that we believe they can keep them, that Cerwyn and the Arthwyd and the Merntir shall be victorious against their boarfolk conquerors.
If I were a refugee, displaced by conquest, I would definitely prefer to return to my home that I've known all my life than settle down in a new place.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Okay. Now, I was thinking of pushing immigration later. But given that very tag, I guess I'll put my trust in the weight of a reverse-colonization wave.
And I guess it feels more in character for our Queen too.
What shall Evalyn do with the Midlanders?
[X] [Midland] Leave the midlanders be, free of Urth's rule. (Leave the Midlanders alone.)
How shall the Arthwyd support the Merntir?
[X] [Merntir] Food & Warriors. Support the Merntir as best you can by sending both warriors and food to aid them. (-1 Temp Martial & -1 Temp Econ)
What shall happen with the Merntir refugees?
[X] [Refugee] They can return to the Merntir (Refugees go back to the Merntir, lose status Merntir Refugees.)
Where shall Evalyn go?
[X] [Evalyn] South. Assist Cadyn in defeating Urth and his army of the walking dead.
Shall the People devote efforts to unlocking the secrets of the shiny rocks?
[X] [Rock] Yes. See if other rocks can produce similar secrets. (-2 Temp Econ, Chance of Innovation)
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All four outcomes are the possible narrative paths that leads after the vote, yes. But it should be noted that the Refugee vote does not exist in a vacuum. For one, we're bending over our backs and near unanimously went for the "Food & Warriors" vote. This changes things. And instead, the messaging becomes:
If we doubted her, we wouldn't have sent her the heaviest support option. We're supporting her, as accorded by our (zeitgeist) desire both as the Arthwydish and the Questers. Instead, what we are doing, regardless of the way the refugee vote falls, is showing trust. The difference is, how much trust do we give her. For me, the vote may fall as they may, but I feel like it's better to let the Merntirian return to their homelands, even if it means we're risking them against Vervov's grandson.
There's also a new angle, one that I realized just now, that by putting forth the onus of rebuilding onto Cerywn, we're transforming the vassal straight into an Early Ancient Theocratic Monarchy as well. Not something pressing to note, but something to note nonetheless.
EDIT: (Mostly) Cateye'd by Raichu.
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Knight Draco
Tea Sipping Advocate of the Devil
- Location
- North America
I dont drink coffee and it is slightly late. I am still pretty sure my point stands.
To get legendary defenders, we simply need to fight three defensive wars.
We wared with the merntir when they attacked us before and won. (Thats one war)
We are currently at war with the nomads. (A separate war we are still fighting)
And we are about to enter a war with Urth (another separate war).
We already won one war. Now we are fighting two defensive wars simultaneously. Once we win both, we would have a total of three defensive wars won.
It is less so a two front war, but rather two two independent wars with each on their own front.
- Location
- United States
Eh, I'm not so sure we're setting up the Merntir for a monarchy.
Monarchy came to the Arthwyd because the priests were seen as weak and ineffective; too focused on beseeching the Goddesses instead of actually taking action. As far as we know (and as supported by your own omake no less
) the Merntir priests and elders fought to the last in the defense of their people. It could transition to a monarchy as the reclaimer is hailed as leader and enshrined as such, but I believe it is just as likely for the priests to be put back into power in the Merntir.Okay, you missed a bit then. Its 3 defensive wars at the same time. Not total, but we'd need the Nomads, Urth, and someone else, at the same time. The war with the Merntir doesn't count for this at all.
True enough, but Hero Units tends to shift government types directly or indirectly (the shifts to Theo. Mon. and to Theo. Council respectively). I am expecting for the structure to remain normal but the possibility for Theo. Mon. is also there and can't be discounted.