Motorcycle engines are cheaper tbh.
Only because of scale. You can build a perfectly functional pulsejet with just one machined part and that rest just assembled out of a bit of tubing and sheet metal. People regularly do it in their garage. Nothing that goes in to them is inherently anywhere near as hard to make as a piston engine.
 
Only because of scale. You can build a perfectly functional pulsejet with just one machined part and that rest just assembled out of a bit of tubing and sheet metal. People regularly do it in their garage. Nothing that goes in to them is inherently anywhere near as hard to make as a piston engine.

Try the fact nobody's actually built a pulse-jet engine yet? I mean, considering the state of this Contest, I'm going to have to give it a hard right kick to get it back in the right direction after everyone basically decided "hey now Winged_One knows what the fuck the QM is talking about"

For target drones valved pulse jet engines are cheap and easy way to power them.

Not when you consider R&D Costs. Your budget for this contest is the largest in relative and absolute terms compared to everything else (You're about a sixth of the way through it, and your regular two-stage testing which is normally half the budget would only be like... a third-ish of this contest's budget.) but you're already spending a lot of money on things. The acquisition of the glider tow cars was actually a pretty bad roll, since you ended up paying more favors than cash and I count favors as being a hell of a lot more valuable than cash in hand.

Motorcycle engines are cheaper tbh.

An Opel flat four (the Kettenkrad engine) is actually one of the cheapest engines for it's displacement in the world because of how many the Anhalt Engine Work and Magdeburg Engine Center are crapping out. There's even a mail plane that flies on three of 'em that the Crown Civil Air Mail loves to death because they can fix it at literally any base they stop at because everyone has Kettenkrad parts. They might not have been the smartest buy in the world, but by God everyone who gets one loves it for what it can do.
 
author bored, votes called

edit: one vote does not an update make, 48hr extension issued, great shame on thread.
Adhoc vote count started by 7734 on Jan 12, 2019 at 1:18 AM, finished with 33 posts and 1 votes.

  • [X]Plan Modifications
    -[X]Ask Potsdam to give us a water jacket
    -[X]Ask Baal to give us a gun in 40x360
    -[X]Drop Lightning Knife, 2cm SlK, Furrer Gun
    -[X]Continue testing, test new guns for sustained fire when they come in

Adhoc vote count started by 7734 on Jan 12, 2019 at 5:09 PM, finished with 44 posts and 9 votes.

  • [X]Plan Modifications
    -[X]Ask Potsdam to give us a water jacket
    -[X]Ask Baal to give us a gun in 40x360
    -[X]Drop Lightning Knife, 2cm SlK, Furrer Gun
    -[X]Continue testing, test new guns for sustained fire when they come in
    [X] Plan Mark 1.5
    - [X] Request that Potsdam modify their gun to feature a water jacket and feed exclusively from disintegrating belts
    - [X] Request that Baal rechamber their weapon for 40x360 if possible
    - [X] Request that the Lightning Knife weapon be modified to improve barrel reliability and reduce chances of failures
    - [X] Drop Furrer & Mulkame
    - [X] Advance everything else as-is
    [X]Plan Mark II

Adhoc vote count started by 7734 on Jan 13, 2019 at 12:50 AM, finished with 47 posts and 11 votes.

  • [X]Plan Modifications
    -[X]Ask Potsdam to give us a water jacket
    -[X]Ask Baal to give us a gun in 40x360
    -[X]Drop Lightning Knife, 2cm SlK, Furrer Gun
    -[X]Continue testing, test new guns for sustained fire when they come in
    [X] Plan Mark 1.5
    - [X] Request that Potsdam modify their gun to feature a water jacket and feed exclusively from disintegrating belts
    - [X] Request that Baal rechamber their weapon for 40x360 if possible
    - [X] Request that the Lightning Knife weapon be modified to improve barrel reliability and reduce chances of failures
    - [X] Drop Furrer & Mulkame
    - [X] Advance everything else as-is
    [X]Plan Mark II
 
Going to do a tally for everyone's benefit.

EDIT: Ninja'd by author. Also, wow, did we seriously fail to actually vote on anything other than this?
Adhoc vote count started by 7734 on Jan 12, 2019 at 1:18 AM, finished with 33 posts and 1 votes.

  • [X]Plan Modifications
    -[X]Ask Potsdam to give us a water jacket
    -[X]Ask Baal to give us a gun in 40x360
    -[X]Drop Lightning Knife, 2cm SlK, Furrer Gun
    -[X]Continue testing, test new guns for sustained fire when they come in
 
EDIT: Ninja'd by author. Also, wow, did we seriously fail to actually vote on anything other than this?

Yes you are all morally derlict and bad people for forgetting to vote and I have a thousand imporved and powerful designs for you to scream and tear your hair out over for this because they're all utter turds.

edit: like y'all already lost the Most Sane design and quite frankly the next sane design is an UkW-5 chassis with the top ripped out and a double 2cm on top.
 
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Yes you are all morally derlict and bad people for forgetting to vote and I have a thousand imporved and powerful designs for you to scream and tear your hair out over for this because they're all utter turds.

edit: like y'all already lost the Most Sane design and quite frankly the next sane design is an UkW-5 chassis with the top ripped out and a double 2cm on top.
>UkW-5 chassis
Pls no

[X]Plan Modifications
-[X]Ask Potsdam to give us a water jacket
-[X]Ask Baal to give us a gun in 40x360
-[X]Drop Lightning Knife, 2cm SlK, Furrer Gun
-[X]Continue testing, test new guns for sustained fire when they come in

I really don't know guns anywhere well enough to vote for this with any confidence, so I'll just go with what seems to be a fairly sensible choice.
 
[X]Plan Modifications
-[X]Ask Potsdam to give us a water jacket
-[X]Ask Baal to give us a gun in 40x360
-[X]Drop Lightning Knife, 2cm SlK, Furrer Gun
-[X]Continue testing, test new guns for sustained fire when they come in
 
[X]Plan Modifications
-[X]Ask Potsdam to give us a water jacket
-[X]Ask Baal to give us a gun in 40x360
-[X]Drop Lightning Knife, 2cm SlK, Furrer Gun
-[X]Continue testing, test new guns for sustained fire when they come in
 
[X]Plan Modifications
-[X]Ask Potsdam to give us a water jacket
-[X]Ask Baal to give us a gun in 40x360
-[X]Drop Lightning Knife, 2cm SlK, Furrer Gun
-[X]Continue testing, test new guns for sustained fire when they come in
 
[X]Plan Mark II
- Water jacket or active liquid cooling for next Potsdam gun
- Get better fuzes for Baal gun ammo
- Redesign Lightning Knife barrels to be more durable
- Drop Furrer gun
- Advance everything else as-is
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan Mark 1.5
- [X] Request that Potsdam modify their gun to feature a water jacket and feed exclusively from disintegrating belts
- [X] Request that Baal rechamber their weapon for 40x360 if possible
- [X] Request that the Lightning Knife weapon be modified to improve barrel reliability and reduce chances of failures
- [X] Drop Furrer & Mulkame
- [X] Advance everything else as-is

Idea here is to see if we can get the Lightning Knife working as a low level air defense solution that's an alternative to pintle mounting the Armor Branch gun on all the things. This also tries to get a full up 40mm Bofors gun out of the Baal design, which could be useful both for land based air defense and defending ships.
 
[X] Plan Mark 1.5
- [X] Request that Potsdam modify their gun to feature a water jacket and feed exclusively from disintegrating belts
- [X] Request that Baal rechamber their weapon for 40x360 if possible
- [X] Request that the Lightning Knife weapon be modified to improve barrel reliability and reduce chances of failures
- [X] Drop Furrer & Mulkame
- [X] Advance everything else as-is
 
[X] Plan Mark 1.5
- [X] Request that Potsdam modify their gun to feature a water jacket and feed exclusively from disintegrating belts
- [X] Request that Baal rechamber their weapon for 40x360 if possible
- [X] Request that the Lightning Knife weapon be modified to improve barrel reliability and reduce chances of failures
- [X] Drop Furrer & Mulkame
- [X] Advance everything else as-is
 
[X] Plan Mark 1.5
- [X] Request that Potsdam modify their gun to feature a water jacket and feed exclusively from disintegrating belts
- [X] Request that Baal rechamber their weapon for 40x360 if possible
- [X] Request that the Lightning Knife weapon be modified to improve barrel reliability and reduce chances of failures
- [X] Drop Furrer & Mulkame
- [X] Advance everything else as-is
 
[X] Plan Mark 1.5
- [X] Request that Potsdam modify their gun to feature a water jacket and feed exclusively from disintegrating belts
- [X] Request that Baal rechamber their weapon for 40x360 if possible
- [X] Request that the Lightning Knife weapon be modified to improve barrel reliability and reduce chances of failures
- [X] Drop Furrer & Mulkame
- [X] Advance everything else as-is

EDIT: Also, the idea of pulse-jet drones is ridiculous. Just use a drogue like normal people.
 
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votes called again.

edit: 30 minute vote opening because you screwballs tied again
 
Last edited:
Wait seriously? Let me tally that, just to confirm....
Adhoc vote count started by Ash19256 on Jan 13, 2019 at 12:53 AM, finished with 49 posts and 12 votes.

  • [X] Plan Mark 1.5
    - [X] Request that Potsdam modify their gun to feature a water jacket and feed exclusively from disintegrating belts
    - [X] Request that Baal rechamber their weapon for 40x360 if possible
    - [X] Request that the Lightning Knife weapon be modified to improve barrel reliability and reduce chances of failures
    - [X] Drop Furrer & Mulkame
    - [X] Advance everything else as-is
    [X]Plan Modifications
    -[X]Ask Potsdam to give us a water jacket
    -[X]Ask Baal to give us a gun in 40x360
    -[X]Drop Lightning Knife, 2cm SlK, Furrer Gun
    -[X]Continue testing, test new guns for sustained fire when they come in
    [X]Plan Mark II
 
[X] Plan Mark 1.5
- [X] Request that Potsdam modify their gun to feature a water jacket and feed exclusively from disintegrating belts
- [X] Request that Baal rechamber their weapon for 40x360 if possible
- [X] Request that the Lightning Knife weapon be modified to improve barrel reliability and reduce chances of failures
- [X] Drop Furrer & Mulkame
- [X] Advance everything else as-is
 
Contest 8: Early Vehicle Entrants
Looking over your whiskey, you sighed to yourself. Normally, for something like this, you'd put out a request for quotes and then things would calm down for a month or two before you had to actually get back to work. The thing was, though, Ulm was a pretty busy place, and the people there tended to talk to their friends in the industry. Therefore, the fact you'd been doing an anti-air vehicle was open knowledge, and several of the industry majors had designs lined up.

Which wasn't, by itself, a bad thing! The problem was that there was a bad case of politics going around up at the High Command and some of it was dripping down on to you, specifically about the organization of anti-air guns. In exchange for some serious horse trading and favor banking and the threat of needing to eat shrimp with the Reichsmarine, the decision was made that any mobile AA that was to stay with the Mobile AA Corps which was part of the Armor Branch- versus the regular AA Corps that was under the Artillery Branch- had to be integral in all respects to it's organic prime mover. This was mostly a nothingburger to you- not like you were putting a long 8,8 on a trailer behind a traction engine- but it did make a lot of the entrants pull out ahead of time and thin out the playing field.

Which helped a lot, because holy cow the playing field was broad. Four designs from Thryssen, two from GBA, a Skoda design, something from Fenrus Kettenkrad GmbH, and even Reinhardt sneaking back in through the back door. Once you actually put out an RFQ, if you put out an RFQ, the field would only get larger.

First up, the Skoda, since that was simplest. Since the gentlemen at Baal were more than happy with rechambering down to the 40x360mm round, the folks at Skoda now had what were nominally two variants of the same vehicle, which was nominally getting billed as an SkW-3fz. After redesigning the SkW-1 into the -3 to get a larger and more stable turret ring and finally scrap the old engine compartment totally, the engineers at Skoda figured out they could standardize an SkW-3 turret to the deck turret ring diameter of a double 6,5cm power loaded naval AA mount. Skoda being Skoda, they then decided to directly plop this naval AA mount on a SkW-3 hull and send it in as the SkW-3 flakzwilling. After someone proceeded to send in the memo you might not want that much shell, though, Skoda then took the Baal long recoil gun (thankfully the 40mm version) and just did a flat replacement of the power loaded 6,5cm guns and called it the SkW-3 flakzwilling ausf. B.

Then there was Thryssen, and Thryssen's shiny new tank hull they had built for the Tank Destroyer Contest running in parallel. Working off a nine cylinder rotary sixteen liter engine built by Kontinentális and a good Field Radio Telephone Model 6, the rather tall tank had it's turret replaced with a modular turret ring that could hold any number of things- and this is where you got into the forest of variants.

The first model- MwF1- was the base chassis plus a turret containing two of the Potsdam 35mm guns in water jackets, hooked up to hydraulic training systems with a reversed feed on one of the guns so the loaders could load them from the center. Sights were a large set of double spider sights, and the guns were equipped with a turning adjuster bar to set the convergence point of the guns anywhere from one to five hundred meters away.

The MwF2 was a solid leap away from this, with Thryssen's rather surprising wholesale buy into the world of rocketry, of all things, with the turret having a Lightning Knife on the left of the body, and behind a simple tin exhaust shield a pair of sixteen-cell eight centimeter rockets. Each rocket was fitted with a time fuze head, and was spin stabilized rather aggressively. With each cell being set so that all the rockets could have their fuzes adjusted until the last second by an in-cell control wire and a simultaneous launch of the whole cell, one trigger pull could send out sixteen rockets each with about a kilo and a half of Formula E in their shrapnel warheads. For sights, the turret was equipped with a rather nifty pivoted ring sight for the rockets, a small half-meter rangefinder, and a spider sight for the Lightning Knife. The tank carried four spare rocket cells for "quick" reloads, but didn't carry extra rockets organically due to the high detonation risk if hit.

The MwF3 was the F2 but more. With a turret easily a quarter meter wider than the hull, the F3 had taken the double rocket cell holding mechanism, and promptly put it on both sides of the turret. To provide a gun based deterrence, there was a double 2cm gun in a centerline position, but given the bare bones ring and post sites it didn't seem liable to do much compared to the sixty four rockets stored and aimed by pivoted ring sight.

Then there was the F4, which had sacrificed the guns to go all in and haul eight cells of rockets in giant "ears" and carried a nice three quarters of a meter rangefinder, adjustable ring sight, and one lonely 13.2mm machine gun with a ring and post as a self defense weapon.

Fenrus Kettenkrad GmbH actually had something nice and sane after that bottle of schnapps (nobody in the office blamed you since they'd all joined in drinking on looking at the provided pictures and spring styles) with what looked like a double sized kettenkrad with the front wheel taken off armed with a pedestal mount holding quad 2cm guns. It was nice, it was simple, and it had a clean spider sight and a distance dial site to go with the vehicle's nice radio and twin Opel engines on an electric transmission.

GBA, meanwhile, was positively boring. They sent in one bog standard truck with a set of spades and a slightly older 46mm Baal gun with a spider sight and a radio in the cab, and another equally boring bog standard truck with a septuple 13.2mm gun mount with everything else the same.

The Reinhardt entry, meanwhile, probably took the cake in terms of interesting designs. Working off an old discarded chassis designed by MANN before they pulled out of the Tank Destroyer Competition to devote all their energy to producing light tanks, the Type 73 Anti-Aircraft Gun Carrier was an interesting hybrid platform, with a large, closed turret using a high elevation 40mm Baal gun on a power elevation and traverse, with the option to deploy up to an aditional four 13.2mm guns via the turret's large bustle and standing baskets. Gun command was entirely from the commander's coupola, and he was given a rather clever synthetic aperture sight for the main gun that was equipped with an interesting windage adjustment wheel for the floating ring system keeping the gunner/commander from having to actually change the sights out. Backup controls existed in the turret, but the only sights there were a simple reflector sight on a ring and post over the barrel.

Now the real question was to look at maybe doing an RFQ to get more entrants, or just to take what you had and go straight to testing.


VOTES

[] Write a formal RFQ and clean up the mess of entrants
-[] Write-in plan. Specify things you want like what guns, tracks or wheels, and maybe a sight if you're feeling lucky.

[] Just go book Ulm and get to work on preliminary testing
-[] Write-in plan
--[] Write in any non-destructive testing you want to do
--[] Write in any non-gun testing you want to do

(Yes, if you go straight to a testing round you can't test the guns or do destructive testing. Ulm isn't ready yet and neither are the Luftwaffe.)
 
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Okay, so thoughts for the RFQ - and yes, I want to do an RFQ to give Ulm and the Luftwaffe time to get ready, as well to make sure that we get at least one decent design.

First off, I actually kind of like what I'm seeing about the Ausf. B Skoda and the first two versions of the Thryssen design. While the AA rockets on the Thryssen design are probably just a little useless as AA weapons, they sound like they could potentially be rather nasty as anti-infantry/light vehicle weapons, and the Lightning Knife, assuming it has the sort of modifications Plan Mk 1.5 wanted, could be very useful as a light AA weapon.

Secondly, the Fenrus design is basically an M16 Multiple Gun Motor Carriage, except with 20mm guns, which could be potentially interesting as an alternative to the Skoda and Thryssen designs, as it's, if nothing else, probably a bit more practical than those two.

The GBA design with the older Baal gun, once modified down to the newer 40mm variant, could be kind of useful, although I really don't like the variant with the septuple mounted 13.2mm guns, mostly because machine gun caliber AA is going to start becoming useless pretty quickly - there's a reason my eventual RFQ will specify at least a 2cm gun, even if the platform has other AA weaponry.

Either way, I do want the RFQ so we can actually do some minor testing on guns to hopefully down-select a bit.
 
Spider Sights and Ring Sights and Rangefinders Oh My!
Since sights are so important, I'm gonna post some helper pics.



This is a spider sight. How it works is you center up on your gun, then you look at your target. After looking at your target, you see which way he's going to break, and start shifting your sight picture on the target so he's lined up with your bead and your first ring. As the pilot goes through his break, you shift to your bead on the second, and then third rings. This basically helps pre-calculate lead.



This is a pivoted ring sight, and works vaguely similarly. After guessing a target's speed, the correct size ring is chosen and slotted in, then you proceed to zero in on your target. Once you have your target and have him lined up on the floating ring with his nose just breaking it, you open up with the gun and correct fire by tracer from there. It's great in a suprise fire and on targets changing altitude a lot because it compensates for that, but if you're the one getting jumped and not doing the jumping it's a very unpleasant surprise, since it's accuracy and effectiveness is based on knowing the speed of the target.



This is a (rather large) stereoscopic rangefinder. How these work is that there is a prism at the center which combines the images from the left and right. The right side is located in a hinge, while the left is fixed. By sighting on the left with the fixed piece and then aadjusting the right to bring the system into focus, what is done is make a very, very large right hand triangle. With the known angle to get the focus and the known base of the rangefinder, a little pre-calculated trigonometry gets the height of the triangle, and therefore the range to the target. This is also why early fire control computers were called tables- part of their job was to construct a series of trigometric tables like this to make a composite three dimensional image that would be used as the firing solution.



There's another visual.
 
My question now is "how fast can a trained operator dial in a quality stereoscopic rangefinder under ideal conditions?"

Knowing this would let me know whether it might be worth it to request that such a device be added.

Honestly, though, I kind of want to insist that all our AA vehicles at the bare minimum have an option to use a spider sight. If that's tacked onto a system that uses a pivoting ring sight, fine, oh well. But this is a system that needs to be able to respond very quickly indeed, which means that we can't afford the delay in trying to guesstimate speed caused by needing to select an appropriate ring for the pivot system.
 
I actually rather like the second Thryssen design, personally. The "Jesus Fuck!" reaction pilots will get when a bunch of little rockets come at them might make them a credible psychological deterrent, even if it's a design that won't truly be super viable until the in-setting equivalent to the 50s. The other rocket designs are ridiculous, though.

I do think we should do a RFQ because it'll give everyone else more time and we might get more fleshed out designs that way.
 
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