Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest
- Thread starter Oshha
- Start date
- Original
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Just because she's a god doesn't mean Arthryn's definition of "merit" won't be fucked up or lead to problems.
- Location
- Philippines
[x] Studying the world. Ymarn chooses to spend her time study the nature of the world and how it works in the hopes of finding new insights to help the People.
the People shouldn't stay on the small pond they should swim through the river jump up a waterfall then gaze at the Vast ocean so they could find out how small they are and come back with a little wisdom and a nugget of knowledge for the next generation
think of it as a pilgrimage
the People shouldn't stay on the small pond they should swim through the river jump up a waterfall then gaze at the Vast ocean so they could find out how small they are and come back with a little wisdom and a nugget of knowledge for the next generation
think of it as a pilgrimage
- Location
- Sydney
Ymarn will take over the tribe and run the next turns (Admin Hero). That means on the main turn we are probably going to Build a Shrine(in the new settlement) and Venerate Arthryn.
I am not anticipating straight-up spellcasting, but the discovery of very basic and simple low-level magic. This is a fantasy setting, where magic exists and another tribe has already discovered some (dark) combat magic. A Mystic Hero studying the world is our best chance at starting to develop magic, just like a Tech Hero would be best for advancing our technology.
Then the (elective) meritocratic monarchy chooses the monarch on the basis of their service to Arthryn(which is a good thing, ie merit)
We have no choice, she is an Admin Hero and so will take power. What we vote for will not change that, none of the votes result in "not allowing our hero's into position of power"
The People becoming a theocracy is a possible result of Ymarn's leadership. She will do an excellent job (serving as an example of how religious leaders make good tribe leaders).
Considering the goddess actually exists and is benevolent, the priesthood will likely do a very good job of ruling.
She (as a Mystic/Admin Hero) is likely to give Mystic/Admin discoveries from studying the world.
But now the goddess has been established as granting blessings. It would take something significant to change that, not simply a Hero deciding to build more (/ better) shrines or holding improved tribute offerings.
PoC had a far less magical setting, but arguably it is possible a mystic hero created a magic axe to gift to the nomads.
I am not anticipating straight-up spellcasting, but the discovery of very basic and simple low-level magic. This is a fantasy setting, where magic exists and another tribe has already discovered some (dark) combat magic. A Mystic Hero studying the world is our best chance at starting to develop magic, just like a Tech Hero would be best for advancing our technology.
Well with "Looking after her family" Ymarn is doubling down on her children and using them as her legacy. Probably her descendants will become the primary priest family. Born Equal means anyone can join the staff of theshrines, but a family specialising in the role will likely do a much better job and therefore dominate the field.
Then the (elective) meritocratic monarchy chooses the monarch on the basis of their service to Arthryn(which is a good thing, ie merit)
I don't understand what you mean by "we shouldn't make it a norm of not allowing our hero's into position of power"
We have no choice, she is an Admin Hero and so will take power. What we vote for will not change that, none of the votes result in "not allowing our hero's into position of power"
The People becoming a theocracy is a possible result of Ymarn's leadership. She will do an excellent job (serving as an example of how religious leaders make good tribe leaders).
Considering the goddess actually exists and is benevolent, the priesthood will likely do a very good job of ruling.
Considering that she is a god that we the players made that embodies hard work, Born Equal, and acceptance I'm not really worried about something like that.
Knight Draco
Tea Sipping Advocate of the Devil
- Location
- North America
Hmmm
How to avoid theocracy...
EDIT: but now I am at a crossroads
we can't have her become a cat girl deity unless she was a huge part of the people during some point (which would most likely be her leading them over the other choices)
Hrmmmmmmmmmm.
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- Location
- Toronto, Canada
[X] Service to Arthryn. In gratitude to the goddess for her blessing, Ymarn devotes herself to serving Arthryn faithfully.
[X] Studying the world. Ymarn chooses to spend her time study the nature of the world and how it works in the hopes of finding new insights to help the People.
[X] Studying the world. Ymarn chooses to spend her time study the nature of the world and how it works in the hopes of finding new insights to help the People.
- Location
- Space
What i was saying is that we should allow our heroes to lead our civ.
As for Ymarn, if we didn't have a choice we wouldn't have this vote now would we and i did say that she is special case, her being double hero and all.
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- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Significantly, but it has yet to be truly tested.
Prestige was from beating the Foresters.
Prestige is how well respected the civ is perceived to be and is basically your reputation of awesomeness.
Hierarchy is how many layers of leadership you have. Right now, you have two, the elders in local villages and the elders in Greenbay.
- Location
- Sydney
From the update;
We do not have a choice, Ymarn will lead.
The vote is not what she will do, Ymarn will do all of them. The vote is on where she focuses her efforts.
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[X] Service to Arthryn. In gratitude to the goddess for her blessing, Ymarn devotes herself to serving Arthryn faithful.
-Is merit due to an inherited factor? -> Then Meritocracy is hereditary. This was the big thing in the stone age, your literal physical fitness is a huge enough component that the only reliable way is to breed for it.
-Is merit improved with any kind of limited supply resource? -> Then Meritocracy is plutocratic/oligarchic, whoever has the wealth or connections to grant merit will grant it to their preferred heirs, which in the majority of people would be their blood relatives. This was the big thing in the bronze age. Metal tools were costly enough that there is no question of merit, whoever could afford metal tools earlier was pretty much certain to roll over opposition.
-Is merit due to a learned skill? -> Then Meritocracy becomes theocratic/bureaucratic, whoever has the skills would ensure that only their preferred heirs learn the necessary skills. This was the big thing in imperial states. Did you know that ancient China managed to get dynasties of eunuchs? Turns out ensuring the advisors are castrated doesn't stop them from picking out proteges to keep the power in the family and since they were the only ones qualified to keep the empire running they had the power.
Sure, the divine can step in, but that just changes the judge to a theoretically incorruptible and unbribeable party.
Funny thing is if you look at religions, most of them do tend to imply that the divine can be swayed via extravagant sacrifices(or at least, drown out everyone else trying to be heard).
Also a minor funny thing in chinese religion is that theres a tradition of bribing the household god with sticky sweets so he can't report on your family misdeeds because he's too busy trying to chew through the offerings.
No, the important part is:
-Is merit due to an inherited factor? -> Then Meritocracy is hereditary. This was the big thing in the stone age, your literal physical fitness is a huge enough component that the only reliable way is to breed for it.
-Is merit improved with any kind of limited supply resource? -> Then Meritocracy is plutocratic/oligarchic, whoever has the wealth or connections to grant merit will grant it to their preferred heirs, which in the majority of people would be their blood relatives. This was the big thing in the bronze age. Metal tools were costly enough that there is no question of merit, whoever could afford metal tools earlier was pretty much certain to roll over opposition.
-Is merit due to a learned skill? -> Then Meritocracy becomes theocratic/bureaucratic, whoever has the skills would ensure that only their preferred heirs learn the necessary skills. This was the big thing in imperial states. Did you know that ancient China managed to get dynasties of eunuchs? Turns out ensuring the advisors are castrated doesn't stop them from picking out proteges to keep the power in the family and since they were the only ones qualified to keep the empire running they had the power.
Sure, the divine can step in, but that just changes the judge to a theoretically incorruptible and unbribeable party.
Funny thing is if you look at religions, most of them do tend to imply that the divine can be swayed via extravagant sacrifices(or at least, drown out everyone else trying to be heard).
Also a minor funny thing in chinese religion is that theres a tradition of bribing the household god with sticky sweets so he can't report on your family misdeeds because he's too busy trying to chew through the offerings.
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I still think that the leadership option is better for both the long and short term. By having her lead our civ gets an admin hero leader which will boost a lot of stuff and as a mystic hero she will only further ingrain the teachings of Arthryn into the People's culture like Born Equal and hard work.
There is also the distinct possibility that by following Arthryn's example in leading the people she will be deified and thus give our civ a second god. A significant power boost.
Also by having her lead the people and then reverting to a council leadership after her death we can establish the tradition of allowing those of exrtaodinary talent and ability (Heroes) leadership without establishing a monarchy. This may even lead to a in-Game System of producing gods with a degree of consistency.
There is also the distinct possibility that by following Arthryn's example in leading the people she will be deified and thus give our civ a second god. A significant power boost.
Also by having her lead the people and then reverting to a council leadership after her death we can establish the tradition of allowing those of exrtaodinary talent and ability (Heroes) leadership without establishing a monarchy. This may even lead to a in-Game System of producing gods with a degree of consistency.
Archon of Ghosts
Servant of Rome
- Location
- Luxembourg
[X] Leading the People. Having been blessed by Arthryn, Ymarn leverages her new prestige and her own talents to gain leadership of the People.
- Location
- Space
Now that I think about it @Oshha what happened to Wyrn, did she became a goddess?
I remember Ymarn mentioning her as Arthryn daughter.
Knight Draco
Tea Sipping Advocate of the Devil
- Location
- North America
I'm just trying to figure out how we get a cat goddess
In all honesty, either focusing on faith or leadership are the two options im for.
By nature of her skill as an admin she would be great as a leader, and mystic can also apply there in certain ways as well, but also mystic might have effects for worshiping our goddess, however being an admin will not.
Through that alone it can be surmised that of those two it may be better for her to lead over worshiping due to her skill set.
still voting for both tho.
Also, we may need a little bit of text telling us what the pantheon of our religion is inb4 it grows large enough and we are not exactly sure what each is.
Because I completely forgot what Wyrn even did or why she's important.
- Location
- Sydney
She is also the goddess of loyalty and "even when times are tough or when it is not personally beneficial, one should stick by their community".
I doubt she will approve of conscientious objectors, if we end up in a war then the People will be expected to fully support it.
Anyone who wishes to join the People is welcome, and the people of other tribes are considered people. But that is not the same as tolerating other cultures, she may in the future require holy war against nations that have a culture too different from our own.
First, there is only a limited number of gods, the more deities there are the less likely newer ones will successfully form. So we will not be "producing gods with a degree of consistency."
Second, she will rule (and possibly become deified) in all the vote options, not just the focus on leading our people one.
Third, Ymarn being a proven successful and talented leader will not result in a tradition of Heros gaining leadership. In-universe, they have no way to identify Heroes. What they will know is the Elder in charge of worship was a great ruler, and so they may pick rulers on the basis of their faith and not ability to rule.
We may not even want a particular Hero to rule, extraordinary talent is not guaranteed to be useful for leadership. We could get a naval Martial Hero that would be great as an Admiral, but incompetent at Diplo and Econ making them the worst choice as head of the nation.
She convinced every one to remember the previous two Heroes, and spread stories about them and made statues of them.
That led to the legends merging, and ultimately becoming the goddess Arthryn.
She (Wyrn) has become the daughter goddess of Arthryn and a (made-up) man who joined the People.
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[X] Service to Arthryn. In gratitude to the goddess for her blessing, Ymarn devotes herself to serving Arthryn faithful.
I'm all for some sort of theocracy to be honest. This is a setting where the gods are real and can provide legitimate benefit. There is no reason not to place Arthryn central in our daily lives and government system when that would likely increase her powers further. All hail to the Cat-God.
I'm all for some sort of theocracy to be honest. This is a setting where the gods are real and can provide legitimate benefit. There is no reason not to place Arthryn central in our daily lives and government system when that would likely increase her powers further. All hail to the Cat-God.
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Pretty much this:
Wyrn isn't worshipped as a goddess however. She is recognised as the demigoddess daughter of Arthryn and one of the outsider men, but Wyrn's divinity falls under Arthryn rather than being a goddess herself.
NúmenoreanNazgûl
Witch-King
- Location
- Minas Morgul
[X] Studying the world. Ymarn chooses to spend her time study the nature of the world and how it works in the hopes of finding new insights to help the People.
The Leading option takes us towards two of the three conditions for losing Gender Equality in favour of matriarchy.
The Leading option takes us towards two of the three conditions for losing Gender Equality in favour of matriarchy.
To get a matriarchy...hmm.
I will continue to stand by my statement it is not likely to happen, but if it was, you would need three things. First would be to get rid of the equality from Born Equal so you can get some cultural gender discrimination. Second is to theocratic or de facto theocratic so Arthryn has a lot of sway in the society of the People. The third would be to get it so that physical similarity to Arthryn is considered a sign of her favour, getting a bias towards to women as Arthryn is female. Push that along with the theocratic angle and you will have a bunch of women running society (supposedly) with divine backing.
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