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Libra's Lament, a Magical Girl Quest [Complete]

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ReaperofInterest said:
Look, just like we don't need Solar Seal, we don't need more levels of Lunar Veil right now. We can blind Rogue every turn with Supernova which ought to make her a more manageable threat. Combine that with destroying her teleportation targets, and we can wear her down quick enough that Lunar Veils level are unnecessary at best, and a waste of XP at worst right now.
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No we cant, what do you think she will do if we say "Supernova"? Right she can easely close her eyes and then we get killed. Veil is absolutely neccessary right now.
Edit: at best we force her to Teleport away, but we cant cast it enough to prevent all of her attacks.
 
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Dragou said:
No we cant, what do you think she will do if we say "Supernova"? Right she can easely close her eyes and then we get killed. Veil is absolutely neccessary right now.
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No it isn't. We can beat her without purchasing more levels of Veil. We just need to keep her moving fast enough that she can't afford to hit us with all of her APT in a single turn. Her Singing Steel already takes of 10% of her Health each turn, we just need to wear her down, and Veil levels are not needed for that.
 
ReaperofInterest said:
Look, just like we don't need Solar Seal, we don't need more levels of Lunar Veil right now. We can blind Rogue every turn with Supernova which ought to make her a more manageable threat. Combine that with destroying her teleportation targets, and we can wear her down quick enough that Lunar Veils level are unnecessary at best, and a waste of XP at worst right now.
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Dragou said:
No we cant, what do you think she will do if we say "Supernova"? Right she can easely close her eyes and then we get killed. Veil is absolutely neccessary right now.
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Just an FYI, level 15 Supernova should oneshot Rogue, even without Radiant Shine Unbroken, due to her losing 10% of her Health at the start of the coming turn.

Base Damage at level 15 is 58,339 and once the next turn begins her Health will decrease to 54,000.

And an AOE attack that's been upgraded that much will be very hard for her to avoid. She can theoretically survive it if the dice are heavily in her favor though, but level 16 or the 2x from Radiant Shine Unbroken removes that chance.
 
ReaperofInterest said:
No it isn't. We can beat her without purchasing more levels of Veil. We just need to keep her moving fast enough that she can't afford to hit us with all of her APT in a single turn. Her Singing Steel already takes of 10% of her Health each turn, we just need to wear her down, and Veil levels are not needed for that.
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She has enough Kunai all over the Place that we only have the option to fly far above the ground, then she can throw her Kunai upwards and teleports towards them (like she has already done) and then she will absolutly hitting us, which we cant heal against and we are currently under 50% HP, which means we will die.

How do you want to prevent this from happening?


Justinkal the problem is that she can easely port herself far enough away, if she is cautious. If we can bait her staying within it, it will work, otherwise it wont.
 
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Dragou said:
To protect Naron, he doesnt saw Naruto and didnt knew about Minatos signature move. XD
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(I haven't either. Just osmosis.)

ReaperofInterest said:
Look, just like we don't need Solar Seal, we don't need more levels of Lunar Veil right now. We can blind Rogue every turn with Supernova which ought to make her a more manageable threat. Combine that with destroying her teleportation targets, and we can wear her down quick enough that Lunar Veils level are unnecessary at best, and a waste of XP at worst right now.
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She's seen that trick and has a skill affinity. I would not bet on her having no counter to it.

Also, if Neverending Sunlight only gives us one or two extra spells, that's a lot less healing than you calculated at max.

Also, 4 shuriken every turn is ~600k damage. That will wear us down very fast unless we get full spell APT for healing, even with no kunai attacks. It's not like she needs to keep singing steel active, either. It's not a reliable method of wearing her down.

Also, it's (probably) true we can win without Lunar Veil. But Lunar Veil levels will be useful in the future. Solar Seal (probably) isn't.
 
Dragou said:
How do you want to prevent this from happening?
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She can't negate spells, so cast Scorching Sunlight or Supernova. Start getting rid of her Kunai, while taking potshots at her to keep her preoccupied and possibly whittle her health down. Alternatively, Intercept her attacks so we can smack her down.

Mellithae said:
She's seen that trick and has a skill affinity. I would not bet on her having no counter to it.
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Just because she has a Skill Affinity, that doesn't mean she's unbeatable.

Mellithae said:
Also, if Neverending Sunlight only gives us one or two extra spells, that's a lot less healing than you calculated at max.
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We don't know how many spells we get, we just need to take a chance. Besides, we can use spells for things other than healing which ought to increase our chances of winning.
 
Mellithae said:
(I haven't either. Just osmosis.)


She's seen that trick and has a skill affinity. I would not bet on her having no counter to it.

Also, if Neverending Sunlight only gives us one or two extra spells, that's a lot less healing than you calculated at max.

Also, 4 shuriken every turn is ~600k damage. That will wear us down very fast unless we get full spell APT for healing, even with no kunai attacks. It's not like she needs to keep singing steel active, either. It's not a reliable method of wearing her down.

Also, it's (probably) true we can win without Lunar Veil. But Lunar Veil levels will be useful in the future. Solar Seal (probably) isn't.
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Without the Veil we can maybe make it a gamble which is far more in Rouge´s favor. Therefore 1 level to get the fullheal and using the EXP otherwise is a good plan. Naturally I hope that this is the last time we need to level the veil, but as pointed out often enough, we die without getting full HP.
 
Dragou said:
Justinkal the problem is that she can easely port herself far enough away, if she is cautious. If we can bait her staying within it, it will work, otherwise it wont.
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I wouldn't be too sure of that. Especially if that Detonate ability upgrades to something higher tier.

Reminder that the next tier up, Collateral Damage, has a minimum expected range of "entire large house" and the one above that, Apocalypse has a minimum expected range of "destroy an entire city block".

Then consider that the point at which you start causing some AOE off pure damage is around 20k, which is well below what the attack would actually do.

120k damage (level 15 + Radiant Shine Unbroken) with Collateral Damage is a big AOE.
 
ReaperofInterest said:
She can't negate spells, so cast Scorching Sunlight or Supernova. Start getting rid of her Kunai, while taking potshots at her to keep her preoccupied and possibly whittle her health down. Alternatively, Intercept her attacks so we can smack her down.
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She can port herself away and we die if she just hits us 3-4 times over 2 rounds if we dont heal us. Your plan is good but we need enough Health to survive long enough to pull it off. Thats why this time 1 level into the Veil and starting to prepare what you have in mind is reasonable. Without Veil our disadvantage is far too big and is gambling that we can somehow bring her into wasting her ATP.
 
justinkal said:
I wouldn't be too sure of that. Especially if that Detonate ability upgrades to something higher tier.

Reminder that the next tier up, Collateral Damage, has a minimum expected range of "entire large house" and the one above that, Apocalypse has a minimum expected range of "destroy an entire city block".

Then consider that the point at which you start causing some AOE off pure damage is around 20k, which is well below what the attack would actually do.

120k damage (level 15 + Radiant Shine Unbroken) with Collateral Damage is a big AOE.
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That indead is a good plan, but then I hope she hasnt Kunai somewhere far enough away and/or that we even get these upgrades.We already know that she has Kunai a few buildings away.
 
We do not. Need. A level. Of Veil. With a level 20 Sunlight Scepter Sun is immune to any ranged attacks Rogue might try, and Moon can Intercept any ranged attacks on her. If Rogue tries a melee attack, like she'll need to do to win, we can hit her with a Supernova. Even if she teleports away, she'll have to disengage from melee in order to do so.

Yes, we need to get Moon back to full health. We can do that without wasting any more XP on Veil.
 
ReaperofInterest said:
Just because she has a Skill Affinity, that doesn't mean she's unbeatable.
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Of course not. But when the counter is as simple as "close your eyes/avert your gaze", a skill affinity should be enough to let her know to do that after she's already seen that trick. Oh, she (probably) won't know to dodge if we level it and try to hit her with it. But enough to avoid being blinded? Almost certainly.
ReaperofInterest said:
and Moon can Intercept any ranged attacks on her.
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Not the Shuriken. It has Hypersonic. Also, not if she negates, then hits, due to her ability.

We can (probably) do it without a level in veil, but the level in veil is a small investment that massively mitigates risk, obviates the need for several other pieces, and remains useful in the future.
 
[X] EXP Plan Upgrade, Trade Veil for Moon Scepter
-[X] Upgrade Sunlight Scepter to level 20 (850)
-[X] Upgrade Moonlight Scepter to level 19 (180)
-[X] Upgrade Veil of the Lunar Goddess to 21 (200)
-[X] Upgrade Supernova to level 10 (350)
-[X] Purchase Neverending Sunlight (450)
-[X] Upgrade Soothing Moonlight to level 15 (600)

There you have it, 2630/2630, suffices for anything but a melee Intercept. Emphasis is on more spells.

Identical plan can be made for lower Sunlight Scepter instead, emphasis on Overwhelm saving the day.
 
ReaperofInterest said:
We do not. Need. A level. Of Veil. With a level 20 Sunlight Scepter Sun is immune to any ranged attacks Rogue might try, and Moon can Intercept any ranged attacks on her. If Rogue tries a melee attack, like she'll need to do to win, we can hit her with a Supernova. Even if she teleports away, she'll have to disengage from melee in order to do so.

Yes, we need to get Moon back to full health. We can do that without wasting any more XP on Veil.
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We CANT do it (heal us enough) without a big enough opening. We CANT intercept her without HSC 3. And then she has attacks who are unblockable. There are far too many holes.
 
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Mellithae said:
Of course not. But when the counter is as simple as "close your eyes/avert your gaze", a skill affinity should be enough to let her know to do that after she's already seen that trick. Oh, she (probably) won't know to dodge if we level it and try to hit her with it. But enough to avoid being blinded? Almost certainly.
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And if she's close enough to try a melee attack on us, like she'll have to be in order to actually damage Sun, then she'll be caught in the collateral damage.

Dragou said:
We CANT do it without a big enough opening. We CANT intercept her without HSC 3. And then she has attacks who are unblockable. There are far too many holes.
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We can only not Intercept her attacks with the Shuriken, which she has not used this entire damn battle. We are more than capable of Intercepting her attacks with the Kunai.
 
ReaperofInterest said:
We can only not Intercept her attacks with the Shuriken, which she has not used this entire damn battle. We are more than capable of Intercepting her attacks with the Kunai.
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I dont know what you read but she used it a few times already. Mostly if she got near us, which she easely can.

Edit:
(Black Star: +150000 Base Damage, +6994 dice, +500 Hostile Legend Effect Out of Balance = 156,994 Total Damage
Primordial Moon: +1000 Base Resilience, -500 holyshitwtf, +464 dice, +500 Rebalanced Existence = 1,464 Total Damage Reduction

155,530 Final End Damage

Primordial Moon Health: 752,966 - 155,530 = 597,436)


Evidence from the last chapter.
 
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What about something like this?

[ ] EXP Plan AOE (960 EXP remaining)
-[ ] Upgrade Veil of the Lunar Goddess level 20 -> 21 (200 EXP)
-[ ] Upgrade Supernova level 3 -> 15 (1020 EXP)
-[ ] Purchase Neverending Sunlight (450 EXP)

[ ] Plan AOE Spam
-[ ] Try to anticipating where Rogue will appear based on the locations of kunai relative to you.
-[ ] Sun tries to catch Rogue in the AOE of Supernova.
--[ ] If she manages to avoid the attack, use the AOE to start destroying the kunai she has spread around the area.
-[ ] Moon attempts to Intercept incoming attacks.

I'd like to grab HSC3 too, but you need to drop 300 EXP from somewhere in the above plan to do that.
Dragou said:
That indead is a good plan, but then I hope she hasnt Kunai somewhere far enough away and/or that we even get these upgrades.We already know that she has Kunai a few buildings away.
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If she teleports far away, that just means more time that she's losing health from her active ability without actually attacking us, and more time for us to use the AOE to destroy kunai.
ReaperofInterest said:
We do not. Need. A level. Of Veil. With a level 20 Sunlight Scepter Sun is immune to any ranged attacks Rogue might try, and Moon can Intercept any ranged attacks on her. If Rogue tries a melee attack, like she'll need to do to win, we can hit her with a Supernova. Even if she teleports away, she'll have to disengage from melee in order to do so.

Yes, we need to get Moon back to full health. We can do that without wasting any more XP on Veil.
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Getting a single level would be to heal up without spending actions on healing, so that those actions can instead be spend on attacking with spells.
 
justinkal said:
If she teleports far away, that just means more time that she's losing health from her active ability without actually attacking us, and more time for us to use the AOE to destroy kunai.
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That is right and favourable until she is porting back. Baiting her into our Supernova is an option. Even if we dont get her then we can get HSC3 the next time or we wait for the omnicaster until next round. We have a few options there.
 
Nevill said:
Also aslo, I find that I like the originals better (i.e. Eva and Rico as opposed to Priscilla). From the designs, to personalities, to magic phrases.
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I created their actual sets about one and a half months ago. All the experience accumulated over the last year went into their sheets, so that mostly shows I got better over time.

ReaperofInterest said:
Rico has to give up at least one Attack to use her Shadow Clone ripoff technique. She won't be able to hit us for her maximum potential damage.
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I would like to mention that Rogue has 12 actions; that would be 8 Kunais and 4 Shurikens at worst, 4 Kunais and 4 Shurikens to safely dodge all of your attacks. So yes, Faraway-R's numbers check out.

ReaperofInterest said:
Her Singing Steel already takes of 10% of her Health each turn, we just need to wear her down
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Note that "Health" means "Current Health".
 
Okay, now I have time to answer this properly.
Nevill said:
The last three updates were probably some of the better ones. I can tell this encounter was planned well in advance. The placement in the overall plot feels a bit random, but the content does not leave cause to complain.

Also, I am a sucker for what-if scenarios and facing the alternate version of main characters.

Also also, I find that I like the originals better (i.e. Eva and Rico as opposed to Priscilla). From the designs, to personalities, to magic phrases. Never got into the mind meld stuff. I just have to wonder what kind of quest it would have been in their alt-verse.

I kinda drifted away a little when the quest got overly mechanical (six digit numbers do not make for intuitive rules), but that got me to de-lurk just to say it. You've done a good job with them, Naron.
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For one, I find it easier to streamline actions when combat is happening because I know no one can go on long tangents. It is a thing and I would be inclined to agree that those last Updates have ended up quite well.

However, I also think the main reason they shine is that they are much faster paced and thus stand out among the slower, more social-attuned 'normal' Updates. Plus, having battles every second Update or so would get boring really quick.


Leaving your and my opinions on who is better aside, I can see why the alternative forms may be more appealing. Personally, I usually try to go for the more interesting options instead of what might be better; a single soul living in two bodies is a concept I have rarely seen, so I went for it once I had already decided on what particular magic the twins would have. It is hard to pull off and even more difficult to do well, but I am happy with Priscilla as she is.

The rest of their differences... well, as I said, the Benign twins were made much later than the Primordial twins (wordplay unintentonal). If I could remake the latter from scratch right now, I would change a lot about them... but this is kind of the thing: I can not. I dug this grave, so I will have to lie in it until the epilogue is written.


Anyway, thank you for the critcism, positive and negative.
 
justinkal said:
As we saw with Operation Soul Collector, it can also be rather exhausting for everyone.
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For those who are not following the mainline Quest, Operation Soul Collector was designed as a Boss Rush. It lasted for 11 Updates of about 3,000 words on average, spanning from the beginning of October 2016 until the middle of November 2017. Among the main reasons were that so many consecutive battles tired the QM and real-life problems on their end that put a damper on their motivation/inspiration.
 
@Naron question: How is the positioning of Pris and Benign Rogue at the end of the update?
I assume they are all on the ground currently, after resurrecting Benign Guardian.
How far is Rogue from the twins roughly?
The update says Rogue leaped back a bit, so likely not all that far.
 
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