- Pronouns
- He/Him
We're culturally dominant for everyone except them.
From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
Which the temple drastically changes. Its very hard to top a natural wonder
ThatGazzer
Minds Eye Bind
- Location
- PNW
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Z000
If this is trash, then find me in the dumpster
- Location
- Viet Nam
now as long as we don't shove our head up our ass and press Study every turn like those idiot did
ThatGazzer
Minds Eye Bind
- Location
- PNW
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We already have more redundancy than them, thank goodness
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
How do immigrants deal with the dogs? How do they get encouraged to adopt our weirder values in general? Especially assimilating them into Wonderful World and Stone-Skinned doesn't seem easy.
How does Stone-Skinned express itself in daily life? All I understood about it is people liking to be well protected from hostile outsiders and understanding of the potential of Stone and earth in acheiving that. How does it work as an Honor Value that has embedede itself deeply in the collective minds of the People though?
They don't seem to have any social cohesion or justice value. How do they deal with crime and punishment? Is there some kind of default for those with zero relevant values?
Also, I would expect most warrior cultures to fight for their kith, kin war brothers and tribe. How does All For One differ from normal tribalism?
You misunderstood my question. I was asking about what organizations or semi-formal groups the Arrow Lake have.
Hmm. Makes sense.
So what are the more popular dreams and musings among the orker breeders? How easy it could be to have delicious orker meat almost daily or how glorious if one could unleah an orker upon the enemy as one would a pack of dogs?
Read their traits again.
I want to be the very best, All For one and Ancestral deeds combined together says that social cohesion is achieved through community contribution and doing your family proud.
To them, Criminal Behavior is doing things which harms the community, which shames their ancestors, or which suggests sloth in some way.
Remember, this is before urbanization, there's no formal concept of criminality.
Tribal warrior cultures do not normally fight for their community. A lot of warrior cultures fight to show that the warrior is badass and worthy of the community's support, to protect their family, rather than for tribal benefit.
Theres a couple of tiers of communalism, but to (over)simplify it, the 'natural' human state of community behavior primarily considers direct family as part of their self, while broader self-as-community behaviors are rarer and fickle until the rise of National and Religious identities.
@Redium - could you go into a bit more detail on what goes into locking in an action, so it could be put into the informational tab. As right now I'm not sure how the actions from Tribute play into it, or just how many actions it is to lock in, how an action taken multiple times in a turn effects that, or actions chosen outside the main turn effect that. An example from a couple updates ago is a good illustration:
@Redium - could you give some information on what's occurred with our dominance of trending Obsidian over the last couple updates? Plus how does Salt being trending interact with us, given we're the only polity that the Pearl Divers can interact with as we're in the way, so they'd have to trade through us for Salt to get to other people.
where are we on the manage forest lock in count given it was taken two times? The tribute action was hunting twice, followed up with another Expand Hunting.
@Redium - could you give some information on what's occurred with our dominance of trending Obsidian over the last couple updates? Plus how does Salt being trending interact with us, given we're the only polity that the Pearl Divers can interact with as we're in the way, so they'd have to trade through us for Salt to get to other people.
- Location
- Canada
That only means mounted wolves are restricted to a select few or the government pays for the larger dogs food, so any surplus goes to them, with the upgrades coming soon it be easier.
Not to mention dogs with the mentality of the pack live to be useful among their pack, and humans, at this point, are part of the pack. Even being carnivores, it doesn't make them impossible to work with, heck larger dogs mean they could hunt things on their own, having a human pack is more benefit for them to have humans raise their young in a safe loving home that feeds them while they take care of their own needs. It be more understandable if your trying to breed giant cats for mounts, as cats are likely to think of eating you and your whole family.
Edit: Not to mention the fear factor, at the age we are in, hearing of a tribe that mounts wolves into battle is scary, really scary, even more so when visitors, or raiders to our territory experience the attacks.
When not in combat larger dogs could be used for transportation, while never as fast as horses, we take what we can in this era, and with mountable dogs our ability to get from one settlement to another is increase massively, this also includes trade. Things like problems of meat transport for the big dogs is no longer a problem for one settlement when trade is establish among the settlements allowing for more food supplies of other settlements.
Edit: Really the usefulness of a beast that can increase the loads between the fingers and crystal lake would be a huge benefit for our civilization. I'm from Canada, northwest territory, I grew up to dog sledding and its history, if one massive dog cant carry/drag one load of lumber better then one horse can, then get a team of dogs, massive dogs, in doing it.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's not that we couldn't do it if we went all it, it's just that it would always be worse than the Orker alternative. Higher upkeep, lower numbers, and less durability and endurance than Orkers. Plus, Orkers are already larger than wolves.
Basically this.
Anyway the thing is:
-Carnivores are always harder to supply, except in artic or near arctic conditions, where they tend to be better adapted to the kind of forage you can get(mostly meat).
-Carnivores are built for short bursts of speed most of the time. Most carnivores have much poorer sustained long distance speed than humans(like, the Human hunting strategy before tools was to literally hound something until it collapses), and thus do not produce measurably better mobility when burdened.
-Herd animals(Horses) are always the best beasts of burden. They tend to be docile once controlled, grow to large sizes, and feed on readily available forage
-Pack animals(Dogs/Wolves) are middling beasts of burden. They might be useful for chariot type vehicles(chariots, sleds, etc), but the average carnivore is actually pretty small, excess mass is a disadvantage for group carnivores due to the nutritional expense of upkeep when they have to share the catch.
-Solitary animals make crappy beasts of burden. They simply lack the suitable instincts to work well with a rider.
We've picked Smart Doggo, which means generally speaking you're trading off raw mass and power for intelligence(brains being nutritionally expensive). Makes great pets, tracker support and warbeasts, but poor beasts of burden, where you want an unimaginative animal that does exactly as its nudged to and no more(pigs were notoriously bad since they were distractible).
ThatGazzer
Minds Eye Bind
- Location
- PNW
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Orkies also have Tusks, impressive endurance (being fuck off boars and all that) and sub dermal armor plating In the form of thick collagenous structures, like a goddamn rhinoceros.
Honestly? Better than dire wolves.
Really the main challenge of Orker mount breeds is that they're too smart. And like doing their own thing regardless of what the small thing on their back is trying to make them do. Lack of herd/pack instinct makes that sort of close partnership take longer to work out.
I'm not sure. Maybe it's the Blackened Heart in the center of the Cave of Stars, a doorway to the spiritual realm? The spiritual realm that's slowly being sealed up while workers slowly go mad or die all around. I mean, it's not like the Blackened Heart at the center of the cave is calling for all of those people who are the Next to walk past Kaspar's grave and into the inky black void. Or simply devouring the souls of those who sleep by the Twisted Forest. Right?
They get used to them fairly quickly. Since you picked intelligence, dogs tend to make good pets. You can only be so afraid of a dog when its tongue is lolling out and it's upside down wriggling around on the ground.
Wonderful World is easy to indoctrinate into. You have two Natural Wonders, Crystal Lake and the Cave of Stars, so people start valuing the natural more. They can see the favour of the spirits obviously written there.
Stone-Skinned has more to do with what type of structures the People live in. Every building is brick, even cabins out in the wood go out of their way to import that luxury. Most minor settlements too significant to even mark on the map have some degree of brick walls present. People think it's personally reasonable to build giant walls and buildings to keep everyone safe. That engenders a bit of a raised eye from outsiders but they get it due to the wars you've fought. Immigrants tend to complain 'obnoxiously' until they feel how warm they are in the winters and how little maintenance is required. A bark and wood longhouse would need major repairs ever other month. A brick building needs minor repairs once a year, if that.
It doesn't really effect the People on a behavioural level yet. It's not advanced enough. Socially, on the other hand, it drives people to turn everything into a defensive structure. It's not quite a Properly Paranoid Value, but it's one that promotes the necessity of being prepared. Earth and stone are the hardest materials you have access to, so they should be used for that reason. They're better than the alternatives.
@veekie got this. Most tribes are normally much more of the One For All variety. Individuals exalt themselves and their families in order to gain status, mates, and resources. In Arrow Lake, successful individuals are supported and exalted because they can do more on the tribe's behalf.
Other than their Elder Council, the only big group they have are the lapis luzili miners. Nothing that rises to the level of a Holy Order or unique tradition.
How do I make these shits not be so ornery? It just gave me a gimlet stare when I broke a branch over its head! That's number one by a lot.
They're generally weighted left to right. In the Tribute Focus description, there's a few actions written out next to each Focus. It's chosen from that list, with a tendency to be selected first from the left side of that list. It can be different if you have a Hero or if you roll poorly, but that's what you should expect to get.
You're misunderstanding how lock in works. In order to 'lock in' an action, you need to take it on three sequential turns, not just take it three times in general.
Obsidian's probably going to go back to Trending in a turn or two once everyone recovers from the war, weather, and disease.
I don't think Salt's trending right now? It shouldn't be, at least. You're basically sucking up all of the Pearl Diver's available salt production. They're expanding it as quickly as they can, but until they finally satiate your demand, it's not going to do much. After the Pearl Divers hit the point of producing more salt than you and they need, you're going to start trading it to Arrow Lake, the Mountain Clans, Island Makers, Peace Builders and so on. You would then start getting the benefit of having it as a trade good.
Mounted dogs aren't going to happen unless you introduce child soldiers. War dogs and War dog sleds could happen, but dogs just don't grow large enough for anyone bigger than a child to be able to sit on them. The largest ever dog in the world was 3'8" at the shoulder. The smallest riding ponies would be at least 4'2" at the shoulder; most ponies were bigger and horses even larger than that. Plus, large dogs don't tend to live that long, 6 years for a working one at most. That's not enough time to train to bear a rider and get used to the rigours of combat. By the time you've done so, the dog's old enough it would be looking to be retired.
Vote Opened!
[ ] [Party] Yes, Aeva ended up encouraging Peace Builder shaman to come.
[ ] [Party] Yes, Aeva permitted the Peace Builder shaman to visit.
[ ] [Party] No, Aeva forbid outsiders from coming. (+1 Stability)
[ ] [Party] No, Aeva forbid the place to all but the spiritually aware. (+1 Legitimacy)
Actions (Pick 2 and a Tribute Focus + 1 Admin and 1 Art)
Annual Festival [Art] - The People deserve to party! Build morale by opening up the stockpiles and having a night of feasts, dancing, music and fun.
Expand Hunting (Dogs, Orkers, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals) [Martial] - Improve upon the hunting techniques of the People. Work to increase the amount of meat that is available to consume and empower the People. A risky activity and one that requires a great investment of skill and energy, this provides the largest gains of food.
Expand Agriculture (Quinoa, Gourds, Corn) [Admin] - The People have come to realize the bounty of the world is often not enough. They need to tame it and carefully manage the foods that are so important in sating their appetites.
Expand Aquaculture (Wild Rice, Mussels, Fishing) [Admin] - Most of the People live close to a river and are able to gather one of numerous sources of food. Often much easier to obtain than food from hunting and much less risky, these sources of food are much more vulnerable to shifts of the seasons and that of the weather.
Explore (Specify?) [Wonderful World] [Martial] [Diplomacy] - There is much to be found in the world. Countless things, often placed by the hand of the spirits themselves. It is up to the People to find them.
Found Settlement (includes: Brick Wall, Shrine, Sugar Shack) [Admin] - While the People build homes where they will, often where food or resources can easily be found, these places are settled without organization or care. By founding a formal settlement, it becomes possible for central authority to exert itself before the People become too fracas. (Requires: 2 tiers of Econ and excess population. Available locations: North Bay, River Fork, River Bend, Wide River. 1 settlement possible to found.)
Manage Forests (Sugar, Timber, Medicine, Gathering) [Wondrous World] [Admin] - While the forests provide the least of the People's food, they have provided that which is most useful. Sugar is wonderous in taste and highly sought after as a trade goods. Evergreen tea soothes aching bodies and quiets headaches. There is much to be found in the unknown, perhaps rare, but of significant value.
Promote Folk Wrestling [Bellicose Bearing] [Martial] - The People are fracas and have a tendency towards physical confrontations and violence. By carefully channeling this tendency, it's possible to develop further skill at war and turn hunters into skilled and deadly raiders.
Raid (Target?) [Bellicose Bearing] [Retributive Justice] [Martial] - The hunting of beasts turns now into the hunting of men. Strike down those who oppose the People so that we may be kept safe.
Study Travel [Wonderful Word] [Art] - Invest time in learning how most effectively to travel. The world is harsh and strange, learning how to traverse it will save the People much in effort and food.
Study Fire [Art] - The greatest and most capricious of spirits, fire is of immense use to the People. The recent discovery of lime and the founding of the Ember-Eyed has spurred substantial interest in developing understanding of this forceful spirit further.
Study Stone [Stone-Skinned] [Art] - A solid and stable spirit, the People have found numerous type of stone with different properties. How these properties can be best served to support the People is unknown. Learning to work the material will likely pay enormous dividends in the future.
Trade (Arrow Lake, Peace Builders, Pearl Divers, Island Makers, Northlands) [Wondrous World] [Diplomacy] [Martial] - It is clear that the People do not hold all that is significant within the world. There are other tribes that hold interesting, useful or beautiful objects. By offering up some as gifts, things that the People do not have will be provided in return.
Train Warriors (Warriors, Holy Order) [Bellicose Behaviour] [Martial] [Admin] - The People have warriors well trained in the art of killing. By diverting more young people into these professions, preparations for war can be established. In a way, it is like knapping obsidian into a knife. An action that takes deliberation and planning, forethought, to be useful.
Prepare for Ordeal [Trial By Fire] [Admin] - The spirits test the People, always. These tests are ones that require careful preparation and forethought. The People will be prepared. A crisis well managed is a sign of spiritual favour, one that's botched causes the People to further suffer.
Tribute Foci
Defense - Walls, Defensive Structures, Trails, Folk Wrestling
Food - Agriculture, Aquaculture, Herding, Hunting
Magic - Study Fire, Study Stone, Study Travel
Megaprojects - Current Megaproject
Rural Infrastructure - Settlements, New Trails, Manage Forests
Spirits - Temples, Ordeals, Festivals
Urban Infrastructure - Temples, Walls, Festivals, Trade
War - Raids, Train Warriors, Folk Wrestling
World - New Trails, Exploring, Trade, Hunting
Megaprojects:
The Hunt [Wonderful World] [Trial By Fire] [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] (5 Actions) - The call of the hunt is a grand and beastly instinct. Long have the People felt the thrill of the chase. It is a solitary thing, one known only by hunter and the hunted. It is also an instinct out of place in this changing world.
The World, A Shield [Stone-Skinned] [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] (12 Actions) - Prerequisites not met.
The World in Miniature [Wonderful World] [Diplomacy] [Admin] (7 actions) - The world is a grand place, seemingly endless in scope. The People's exploration and search for wonders has pushed them to find a way to more effectively communicate discoveries with each other. Trail markers are a start, but they are not easily portable. More can be done.
A Temple, Grand [Art] (8 Actions) - Prerequisites not met.
Extended Projects:
Temple at the Cave of Stars [Art] [Admin] (1 Action) - The People have come a long way in creating a thing of beauty upon a nexus of spiritual power. Somewhere rituals can be completed and secret arts can be learned.
The Hill (Crystal Lake, The Fingers) [Stone-Skinned] [Admin] (2 Actions) - A hill made by man. A simple construct, but one that greatly raises the defensive value of a settlement.
New Trails [Wondrous World] [Admin] (6 Actions) - Inspired by the Fire Relay, these small trails are cut into the innumerable forests that surround the People. Serving as akin to veins in the body, they promote the free movement of goods and people.
Expand Hunting (Dogs, Orkers, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals) [Martial] - Improve upon the hunting techniques of the People. Work to increase the amount of meat that is available to consume and empower the People. A risky activity and one that requires a great investment of skill and energy, this provides the largest gains of food.
Expand Agriculture (Quinoa, Gourds, Corn) [Admin] - The People have come to realize the bounty of the world is often not enough. They need to tame it and carefully manage the foods that are so important in sating their appetites.
Expand Aquaculture (Wild Rice, Mussels, Fishing) [Admin] - Most of the People live close to a river and are able to gather one of numerous sources of food. Often much easier to obtain than food from hunting and much less risky, these sources of food are much more vulnerable to shifts of the seasons and that of the weather.
Explore (Specify?) [Wonderful World] [Martial] [Diplomacy] - There is much to be found in the world. Countless things, often placed by the hand of the spirits themselves. It is up to the People to find them.
Found Settlement (includes: Brick Wall, Shrine, Sugar Shack) [Admin] - While the People build homes where they will, often where food or resources can easily be found, these places are settled without organization or care. By founding a formal settlement, it becomes possible for central authority to exert itself before the People become too fracas. (Requires: 2 tiers of Econ and excess population. Available locations: North Bay, River Fork, River Bend, Wide River. 1 settlement possible to found.)
Manage Forests (Sugar, Timber, Medicine, Gathering) [Wondrous World] [Admin] - While the forests provide the least of the People's food, they have provided that which is most useful. Sugar is wonderous in taste and highly sought after as a trade goods. Evergreen tea soothes aching bodies and quiets headaches. There is much to be found in the unknown, perhaps rare, but of significant value.
Promote Folk Wrestling [Bellicose Bearing] [Martial] - The People are fracas and have a tendency towards physical confrontations and violence. By carefully channeling this tendency, it's possible to develop further skill at war and turn hunters into skilled and deadly raiders.
Raid (Target?) [Bellicose Bearing] [Retributive Justice] [Martial] - The hunting of beasts turns now into the hunting of men. Strike down those who oppose the People so that we may be kept safe.
Study Travel [Wonderful Word] [Art] - Invest time in learning how most effectively to travel. The world is harsh and strange, learning how to traverse it will save the People much in effort and food.
Study Fire [Art] - The greatest and most capricious of spirits, fire is of immense use to the People. The recent discovery of lime and the founding of the Ember-Eyed has spurred substantial interest in developing understanding of this forceful spirit further.
Study Stone [Stone-Skinned] [Art] - A solid and stable spirit, the People have found numerous type of stone with different properties. How these properties can be best served to support the People is unknown. Learning to work the material will likely pay enormous dividends in the future.
Trade (Arrow Lake, Peace Builders, Pearl Divers, Island Makers, Northlands) [Wondrous World] [Diplomacy] [Martial] - It is clear that the People do not hold all that is significant within the world. There are other tribes that hold interesting, useful or beautiful objects. By offering up some as gifts, things that the People do not have will be provided in return.
Train Warriors (Warriors, Holy Order) [Bellicose Behaviour] [Martial] [Admin] - The People have warriors well trained in the art of killing. By diverting more young people into these professions, preparations for war can be established. In a way, it is like knapping obsidian into a knife. An action that takes deliberation and planning, forethought, to be useful.
Prepare for Ordeal [Trial By Fire] [Admin] - The spirits test the People, always. These tests are ones that require careful preparation and forethought. The People will be prepared. A crisis well managed is a sign of spiritual favour, one that's botched causes the People to further suffer.
Tribute Foci
Defense - Walls, Defensive Structures, Trails, Folk Wrestling
Food - Agriculture, Aquaculture, Herding, Hunting
Magic - Study Fire, Study Stone, Study Travel
Megaprojects - Current Megaproject
Rural Infrastructure - Settlements, New Trails, Manage Forests
Spirits - Temples, Ordeals, Festivals
Urban Infrastructure - Temples, Walls, Festivals, Trade
War - Raids, Train Warriors, Folk Wrestling
World - New Trails, Exploring, Trade, Hunting
Megaprojects:
The Hunt [Wonderful World] [Trial By Fire] [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] (5 Actions) - The call of the hunt is a grand and beastly instinct. Long have the People felt the thrill of the chase. It is a solitary thing, one known only by hunter and the hunted. It is also an instinct out of place in this changing world.
The World in Miniature [Wonderful World] [Diplomacy] [Admin] (7 actions) - The world is a grand place, seemingly endless in scope. The People's exploration and search for wonders has pushed them to find a way to more effectively communicate discoveries with each other. Trail markers are a start, but they are not easily portable. More can be done.
Extended Projects:
Temple at the Cave of Stars [Art] [Admin] (1 Action) - The People have come a long way in creating a thing of beauty upon a nexus of spiritual power. Somewhere rituals can be completed and secret arts can be learned.
The Hill (Crystal Lake, The Fingers) [Stone-Skinned] [Admin] (2 Actions) - A hill made by man. A simple construct, but one that greatly raises the defensive value of a settlement.
New Trails [Wondrous World] [Admin] (6 Actions) - Inspired by the Fire Relay, these small trails are cut into the innumerable forests that surround the People. Serving as akin to veins in the body, they promote the free movement of goods and people.
Actions that could be locked in this turn: Trade (Pearl Divers), Expand Aquaculture (Fishing)
Automatic Actions: Trade (Arrow Lake, Northlands), Expand Aquaculture (Rice), Prepare for Ordeal
- Location
- USA
Good to know we didn't take too much of a hit from Kaspar's death and Aeva moving in to take his place, especially considering how close we still are to hunger and starvation.
Ooooh mortared masonry. Well that was rather quick. This is a huge architectural boon for us considering how much it improves our building capabilities. It'll likely improve any further structures we create in the future while allowing us to build bigger, better, and more permanently.
I'm curious do we have any sources of granite or marble around us? @Redium
This is a new category. Though it's a very significant one in that it will allow us to have longevity and stability. It seems likely that we're on the first steps to writing, which helps immensely with centralization along with research as we don't have to entirely rely on oral retelling for knowledge to be passed on. It still seems like it will be a long while until we develop writing though, or anything like currency.
It seems like this Temple to Kaspar will be our first truly mortared masonry building. I do wonder though what kind of architectural style and design we're going for here. I'm also curious to hear what Redium has to say about how present day anthropologists would interpret this.
It's curious to hear though that Aeva is considering sealing in the cave of the Stars. Does that mean permanently or only accessible to a certain few?
Interesting to see. I think we're maybe the first to develop an actual temple. Unlike the shrines and holy sites of before I think the distinction with temples is that they are probably dedicated to a certain great spirit or something, Kaspar in this case. I am curious to see how our budding religious beliefs will develop from here on out as this is a significant change and investment on our part.
I'm guessing we aced an innovation roll for this turn then? One of the acolytes probably developed concrete or mortar for us right? That's what I assume they were mixing earlier in the update.
This brings up an important thing to consider, are meetings of Holy Orders like this common or rare as this seems to suggest? I'm guessing most of our holy orders seem somewhat autonomous and are present in every settlement to some degree.
We must be pretty advanced if our construction techniques have come this far. I'm curious if the techniques shown here were recently developed just for this or whether we've had them for awhile? Either way while the injuries and deaths are sad, they're not too unexpected considering the era we are in.
I wonder what could be the cause of this? Is there something else in the surroundings that is causing this feeling? Maybe some gases in the environment that made the trees like they are?
Did we completely deforest the Wicked Woods?
I hope this is just figurative compared to the other curse last turn with the illness that is spreading down south. What happened to that anyway?
Wonder what this means. Just a simple observation of could she be more than she seems like an important matriarch or an overseer or something.?
Damn, what exactly is making our food situation so bad? I'm guessing our population is still increasing while the weather is not optimal. We do live in Canada after all.
We got quinoa last turn didn't we? If so that's a good thing I guess for us if our peoples diets and options are improving. Quinoa is supposed to grow well in most climates from what I remember so we should probably get on that eventually.
We seem to have a good degree of specialization considering we have dedicated roles for stone cutters, woodsmen, and even porters. Glad to hear about that, especially when it seems like this place seems to be cursed in their eyes.
This story seems awfully common. I'm guessing when it comes to oddballs or outcasts or he stupid this is seen as an accepted scenario?
I'm curious as to what happens afterwards if someone does reach out.
I'm guessing that we had another bad weather roll this turn, considering how cold it appears to be during summer? @Redium
This seems to be an example of one of the symbolic tally in action then? What exactly is it that the supervisor is measuring and tallying, and for what purpose?
Are bandits common during this era? As this is the first time I think we've heard of them. I'm guessing the incident a few years ago involved violence in the camp, probably among the young men?
I'm guessing that something like dealing with bandits has happened before considering this response. I'm guessing the fangs are being used for this due to being seen as the best hunters and trackers.
This seems to be our flat arrow outlook value in action.
I'm curious about Aeva, considering that soon after she appeared to us in the turns we instituted the adult trials, is Aeva a mother since that is what we implemented in order for women to be considered adults?
Here are some after effects from our actions right here. I'm curious as to what the rest of the people view Kaspar's descendants as.
I always thought the skalds were simply peaceful bards in essence, did not know that they were warriors as well. I'm guessing though that the peace Builders were successful down south with their war. Who were they warring with I wonder, and considering the outbreak of diseases down south I'm also wondering if they were affected too.
Hmmm it seems like the Medicine Men might be their last equivalent to our Ember Eyes in some respect considering their magic likely has something to do with crafting medicines. Would've been weird to learn if they were warriors but glad to see that they are not.
That spite from Taavi though does not seem like a good sign, I hope that feeling isn't common. Also the capitalization of death here makes me believe they view the Black Heart inside of here as probably a great spirit representing death.
It's curious to hear often Aeva seems to visit the Cave of the Stars. I wonder if it's due to the fact that this is the grave of Kaspar and she wants to honor him, or if its due to the experience she had in there, such as the visions. It makes me slightly curious as to how the reputation of the Cave of the Stars has changed now that Kaspar is interred there.
So, is it the salt that was poured on top of the corpse that is preserving it, the conditions inside the cave itself, or a combination of all of the above. Also how common is the belief that Kaspar will rise again some day among the rest of the People? Is it just Taavi and the workers there at the cave, or is it commonly held?
This is going to be an interesting decision with long term ramifications. Now that we have two natural wonders under our belt, three if you count the Wicked Forest, we seem to have a very good base for our cultural achievements, allowing our own ideas to hold up against the Peace Builders, something that will likely expand when the Temple is finally built.
When it comes to the two options regarding letting the Peace Builder shaman come to visit, I am two minds regarding this. Considering how...spiritually active this place seems to be, this might serve as a good way to foster a cultural exchange more favorable for us since it will be us inviting their holy men and religious leaders to one of our key sites, getting to experience the spirits first hand, and thus maybe influencing the Peace Builders to be more favorable to us. Furthermore, when we look at the trade table on the first page in our civilization sheet we can see that there is a row dedicated specifically towards pilgrimages. By encouraging or allowing the Peace Builder Shaman to come to this site, this Temple if we build it by next turn, it seems likely we could contest the Peace Builders in this regard, thus giving us an edge in our ideological struggle against them, as not only are we building a grand site in a spiritually significant area, the history behind the site will likely lend to some good cultural exchanges going on. At first it may be shaman from them, but if we manage to convince enough of them about the veracity of our ideas, we may be able to influence their everyday people about our belief systems. On the other hand, by having them come through to the Temple site this could expose our people to their culture on ideas much more than if we didn't considering before they seemed to have mostly been confined to the Hill Guard area, whereas with the Temple Site they will likely need to stop at Crystal Lake in order to get here, which may allow them to proselytize more among our population. Furthermore, considering how perceptive their shaman seem to be, they may pick up some of our technologies through watching this construction under work, such as with the mortared masonry or brick building, which is not something we want exported as it is a strategic advantage for us.
When it comes to two no options, while the stability option is tempting, we've been at lower stability before so it's not imperative that we absolutely need more stability right now. The more curious option seems to be the legitimacy option as while that likely also forbids the shaman from the Peace Builders from coming, it also seems like it will prevent most of our own people from gaining access to the inside of the Temple as well. That likely will make it so that only our shaman and holy orders will be able to access the interior of the Temple, thus preserving some of its mystique, while also preventing idiots from going inside to die there. I'm unsure of what the long term effects will be because of that, but I am curious nonetheless as to what it could accomplish. Any comments on these theories @Redium
Considering we have two actions, I find that curious since it seems like our weather is not that favorable as it was mentioned how chilly it was during summer. But I won't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Right, we should probably get these locked down as soon as we can, considering our trade with the Pearl Divers is a key one as they will be giving us salt, which will help preserve more of our food for later, while locking down aquaculture will mean that we will have another food source to rely on when it comes to lean times such as these.
Nope, we're currently on the Edge of Hunger, we cannot afford to open our stockpiles up right now when they are as meager as they seem to be.
Considering the skill of our hunters, this seems like an action we should probably take soon, maybe even this turn, considering how it will likely increase our food output and status. Dogs will likely help us when it comes to domestication. Orker is right out because of how high the DC still is, which if we fail could mean no food. Traps are useful though I am not sure if they will provide enough for the moment. Herd animals are a safe bet to expand our food output. Prize animals, not so much.
This all really depends on the weather right now. While corn would be a good staple crop to improve upon, with fickle weather, we may end up not receiving much return for investment. When it comes to gourds, they don't seem that appealing. Quinoa, as it was mentioned, is able to grow in all types of weather, so it should be a good crop to work on. Again, this all depends on the suitability of the current climate.
We already have wild rice locked in, so we don't really need to pick that again. Mussels would probably be quicker to gather than say fish, but I doubt they'd be as nutritious in comparison. Considering how close we are to locking down fishing, I think we should do that, as not only will it help us get out of this food situation, we can lock it down for a long while.
As the status page still has us as semi-nomadic, I don't think this is necessary at the moment, we already have one wonder we want to occupy at the moment.
Nope, no can do at the moment. We not have the econ tiers necessary for this to occur. I'm guessing River Fork is the location next to the Cave of the Stars, right?
We should probably get on this eventually. I think we have manage forests for sugar down, considering how often we did it in the past. Timber seems new but I don't think we have a pressing need for more timber production right now. Medicine would be nice to do later on, but I don't think we have the specific techs for it at the moment, nor the dire need. What exactly is gathering mean in this case?
Nope, don't need right now as we're not at war with anyone, not that we would need it even if we are considering how powerful we are at the moment.
We're not doing well enough economically for this to be an option. The places closest for us to raid logistically are either our trading partners or allies, so even if we could raid some of them, it wouldn't be worth it.
Useful, but not a priority right now.
Considering how important and how many technologies are said to be locked behind this action in the tech tree, we really should take this sometime soon as who knows what we could find. Hell, it likely leads to copper and bronze later down the line.
Considering our stone skinned trait, I think we should take this eventually, as this will not only improve our buildings and defenses, it could also lead to other improvements, such as potentially architecture, infrastructure, and more.
I think we've got trade locked in with Arrow Lake and the Northlands. Considering how close we are to locking in trade with the Pearl Divers, I think the priority should go with them as they have a truly critical trade good we need at the moment in salt. The priority from then on for me is the Peace Builders then Island Makers, mostly because medicine outranks mica for me.
We're not at war at the moment so I don't think this is necessary.
This is already locked in so we should be fine here.
Considering how bad our current food situation is, I think we should choose the tribute foci to be food, for as soon as we solve that issue more options become available to us afterwards.
Taking into account how this would augment our future hunting options, I think this is a must take action. It's not too long of a megaproject, plus it has considerable long term effects, possibly with the immediate effects per turn being more hunting, which is not a bad thing. Taking this now will pay off with great dividends in the future.
Curious as to what this is, possibly a mortared masonry wall construction?
This is also another megaproject we should get on with, as it's not only one we're unique suited for, it's benefits are immense. This seems to me to be a project for creating a map. By doing so, not only do we move closer and closer to developing writing, we also will likely increase centralization among our people as they will now know what is our territory and where everything is, something we can teach to others without having to have them do it in the first place.
I'm guessing that this is an upgrade for our current temple? I think we might need more cultural and religious progress for this to appear, as our thought on that is still in flux.
This is a must take action. We've started the temple, with only 1 action required to complete it, it would be a waste not to do so. It will be a great boon for us culturally, and will likely be another focal point for our civilization. Especially since the latter part of the description seems to indicate it may become a place of learning.
We really should improve more of our settlements with these, especially considering how cheap these are. We may not be at war right now, but complacency is deadly and you never know when one of these might come in handy. I'd probably build one first at the Fingers considering how isolated it is at the end over there, then at Crystal Lake. Right now, Crystal Lake is right next to the Hill Guard, so if someone does sneak past it, reinforcements are closer to them than the Fingers.
This is an interesting new choice, and a pretty good infrastructure choice that will likely develop into roads. I don't think we need it now, but it is something we should keep in mind for later.
Sorry to hear that.
I mean, to be fair, I think we might be in a different situation from the rest of the civilizations during the Bronze Age collapse, at least due to our geography. I'd hope that we can avoid anything like the Sea People coming to raid our coastlines during this period, and hopefully learn enough about agriculture and such to prevent a chain reaction from causing our entire Palace Economy from crashing and burning. If we do end up subjected to this, I'd hope we end up like the Egyptians and Assyrians rather than the Mycenaens and Hittites.
I don't think we'll get many evolution opportunities anytime soon due to how many of our seem maxed. What exactly is the weight of our actions? As I think we've been pretty balanced so far.
I'm guessing the beasts the Northlands herd are the Mastodons? Also, I'm also inferring that there are other undiscovered factions out there that have done domestication as well? If so, I'm hoping they have horses so we can get it off them.
Makes sense, explains how easily it was for South Lake to collapse.
What's the current thought regarding it?
Hmm...not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. What exactly do we need to do to push it over the edge?
I'm sensing that the situation has changed now considering how explosively the Mountain Clans have grown as a fraction. I bet Arrow Lake is happy to have gotten brick walls from us.
How did it affect them? Are they still suffering from it? Is their hero still alive?
It seems like our position as the key trader is now only relegated to the North due to the distances involved. Not sure we should trade with the Island Makers right now though, considering that disease that might still be out there.
What are they using mica for now?
As a Biologist, and someone who studied in STEM, I know how you feel. I thought that the social sciences like anthropology would be less susceptible to that, though.
I can get the retaining fat part, but how do small hands and feet help? Also, how will mutation and changes like that be a thing later?
That's good to know, though I'm curious about how effective our value for justice is compared to social harmony.
Is that because out of the civilizations we've met, we've been one of the few who have developed the technology to utilize the earth and stone? When you mean land development for the Island Makers, is that related to how well they were when it came to forestry?
For a people called the Peace Builders, having a trait that focuses inherently on human conflict is deeply amusing to me. Still, even if we may seem weird, I like our Trial by Fire trait as it is one that allows us to be risk takers, which is valuable when it comes to innovation I guess.
What are their values like by any chance? I would think that the Peace Builders might get it too considering how cultural they are compared to us. What were the other starting values per chance anyway?
Curious to see if them adopting a value from us will help ease integration later on.
Ancestral Deeds seems like one that will help induce harmony within their society, as it seems most similar to Confucian values and promoting community.
All For One definitely seems like a communal trait that helps them function as a whole tribe.
Curious to see what Womb of the Earth does. Does it just affect things like mining, or is agriculture affected as well?
Again, another communal/social harmony trait.
Considering we are their greatest trade partner, and super wealthy to boot, I wonder how much we've influenced them to get Culture of Commerce?
Is that a very centralized form of government? I doubt it considering how similar it seems to our government.
I'm kinda curious to see what exactly the Frost Scarred will get for innovation. What do they study in any case?
That makes sense, and is preferable really. It seems like we have more Knights Templar compared to a Jesuit Order.
Will we eventually realize that our decision to breed specific types of animals is causal when we develop smarter dogs?
I was refering to this segment, and I hadn't seen anything to indicate it had changed.
- Location
- USA
Yeah that's rather ominous. Here's hoping we get a good weather roll after we build this thing, so it makes it seem like we sealed the door to the underworld or something rather than just angering the spirits.
That's good to know. Do the rest of the People teach immigrants how to care for and raise dogs too?
What does the Wicked Woods count as? Just another facet of the Cave of Stars? What do other tribes think about our natural wonders?
Are we really that odd in the eyes of other tribes? Such as our history? You said we were intimidating, but what are the rumors surrounding us? Also, are our walls really that tall in comparison?
I can get behind properly paranoid, we may be the big dog right now, but who knows how long it is until an unknown threat pops up over the horizon. So when you mean, turn everything into a defensive structure, does that mean something like every brick home can become a blockhouse or something different?
I'm guessing the Arrow Lake Tribe haven't really done much or gotten much prestige then, simply kept doing what they've always done then, right?
Oooh, that's good to hear, that will likely benefit us a lot.
So does that mean that we're the only customer of the Pearl Diver's salt then? Since we're the closest ones to them relatively speaking, I'm guessing that would make us the Middle Man for the rest of the civs who want salt, which should allow us to benefit if it ever becomes trending right?
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[X] [Party] Yes, Aeva ended up encouraging Peace Builder shaman to come.
I don't know about actions, but i like this one.
I don't know about actions, but i like this one.
Walker Of Chaos
Best/Worst Dynasty
- Location
- Sweden
So many shines this turn, still I believe our number one priority should be bolstering our food supply. Might be worth it to dedicating the next 3-4 turns just to getting a bunch of food actions locked in.
[X] [Party] Yes, Aeva ended up encouraging Peace Builder shaman to come.
Cultural war against the Peace Builders
[X] [Action] Expand Aquaculture (Fishing) [Admin]
[X] [Action] Trade (Pearl Divers) [Wondrous World] [Diplomacy] [Martial]
Get these locked in
[X] [Art] Study Fire [Art]
A bunch of stuff is apparently locked behind this
[X] [Admin]Temple at the Cave of Stars [Art] [Admin] (1 Action)
Finish what we started and ensure our culture is strong enough to fight the Peace Builders
[X] Tribute (Food)
Do I really need to explain this one?
[X] [Party] Yes, Aeva ended up encouraging Peace Builder shaman to come.
Cultural war against the Peace Builders
[X] [Action] Expand Aquaculture (Fishing) [Admin]
[X] [Action] Trade (Pearl Divers) [Wondrous World] [Diplomacy] [Martial]
Get these locked in
[X] [Art] Study Fire [Art]
A bunch of stuff is apparently locked behind this
[X] [Admin]Temple at the Cave of Stars [Art] [Admin] (1 Action)
Finish what we started and ensure our culture is strong enough to fight the Peace Builders
[X] Tribute (Food)
Do I really need to explain this one?
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[X] [Party] Yes, Aeva ended up encouraging Peace Builder shaman to come.
[X] [Action] Expand Aquaculture (Fishing) [Admin]
[X] [Action] Trade (Pearl Divers) [Wondrous World] [Diplomacy] [Martial]
[X] [Action]Temple at the Cave of Stars [Art] [Admin] (1 Action)
2 actions to lock them in and one to complete the temple.
The last action i am using to start the hunt Megaproject, and the tribute is used to get it to 3/5 this turn, if we stay on Megaprojects we can complete it with the tribute actions next turn.
[X] [Action]The Hunt [Wonderful World] [Trial By Fire] [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] (5 Actions)
[X] Tribute (Megaprojects)
[X] [Action] Expand Aquaculture (Fishing) [Admin]
[X] [Action] Trade (Pearl Divers) [Wondrous World] [Diplomacy] [Martial]
[X] [Action]Temple at the Cave of Stars [Art] [Admin] (1 Action)
2 actions to lock them in and one to complete the temple.
The last action i am using to start the hunt Megaproject, and the tribute is used to get it to 3/5 this turn, if we stay on Megaprojects we can complete it with the tribute actions next turn.
[X] [Action]The Hunt [Wonderful World] [Trial By Fire] [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] (5 Actions)
[X] Tribute (Megaprojects)
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