As for punishment, we want to encourage people to report crimes, and making the punishment harsher for inaction won't do that. Rather, it encourages the people to help conspiracies since it'll lead to relatively less harsh punishment if they were a active part of it.
Or, likely anyone who did get fingered starts lying about who knew to drag their enemies down with them as well. Pretty limited at present due to small village scenario, but as population grows it'd be a pretty hard to detect way to sabotage. You don't really HAVE proof of whether someone knew or not after all
[X] [Know] Be punished as harshly as the criminals themselves.
[X] [Fangs] Commit to Excellence! (Upgrade Honoured Elites)
[X] [Megaproject] At least 2 new technologies (exploding dice)
[X] [Know] Be given a severe, but reduced punishment.
[X] [Fangs] Commit to Excellence! (Upgrade Honoured Elites)
[X] [Megaproject] At least 2 new technologies (exploding dice)
Point taken. A reduced punishment still entices bystanders to take action, and also helps ensure that someone falsely accused of inaction isn't killed on the spot.
[X] [Know] Be given a severe, but reduced punishment.
[X] [Fangs] Commit to Excellence! (Upgrade Honoured Elites)
[X] [Megaproject] At least 2 new technologies (exploding dice)
Neat, it looks like we rolled really well for our Megaproject this turn seeing as it essentially got upgraded. I wonder if our Great Relay will be able to do this:
Enormous stone pots had been set out at the village green. The soapstone cookware had been imported from Arrow Lake at great expense to the People. The stone was easy to shape and didn't break when heated or cooled so it was highly prized by good cooks. Compared to the granite that the People had used in the past, it was substantially better in every way that mattered.
Didn't know what soapstone was, or what it could be used for before this, but now that I do I am very interested in seeing if we could integrate the Arrow Lake Tribe into our own. Soapstone appears to be good for use in architecture and art, and while we don't really have much of the latter, that doesn't mean we won't need it sometime in the future.
[ ] [Know] Be punished as harshly as the criminals themselves.
[ ] [Know] Be given a severe, but reduced punishment.
[ ] [Know] Be punished more harshly. (+1 Stability)
[ ] [Know] Be given a light punishment. (-1 Stability)
[ ] [Know] Go unpunished. (-2 Stability)
This seems like a vote that will likely have an impact far into the future when we've gone well past the neolithic or archaic age, whichever one is applicable here, and could possibly alter our values. The first two options, seeing that they don't change our stability rating at all, seem to reinforce the idea that this decision will have a heavy influence on the narrative of our civilization for the short term and long term. By punishing those who knew but didn't act by giving them a death sentence I concur with the others when I say that this will be more likely to cause future conspirators to gain more recruits to their cause as with the penalty being the same for not acting, then those who hear of the plan and don't act, especially when those acting are more powerful than them, will likely join the conspiracy as at least that way if they are going to die no matter the result they may as well try for the option that doesn't get them immediately killed. Furthermore, it would also likely be hard to pin down later who knew what, and anyone could literally use this ruling as a way to take people with them, including innocents or their enemies. By giving them a severe but reduced punishment we will still give them incentive to report on any conspiracies, since they won't receive the same punishment as active conspirators, however it will also serve as a solid deterrent to not keep quiet as the punishment is still severe enough, a solid choice in this regard.
When it comes to the decision of punishing them more harshly, when you take into account that the punishment dished out to the active conspirators was death, this seems to me that this result will likely result in a gruesome punishment like torture or a method of execution that is grisly, like The Boats. I'm not entirely sure if people would like that to be what our Boat Meme is about. Then again the additional stability does call to me as that seems to hard to come by unless under certain conditions. As for what the effect of this will be, I am not sure as while I think that it will likely serve as a deterrent in some capacity, I also believe that it could also incentivize further cooperation with those who hear about the plot. Something to also take into consideration is what taking this choice will do for the values of our civilization. As someone who plays quests like these I try to think about decisions like this logically and try to divorce my modern morals from decisions such as this due to the fact that context exists and my modern morals are for a different context and a different frame of mind. All of that being said, considering how violence is already seen as an acceptable tool by the people at this point in time, I am not entirely sure we want to go deeper down this rabbit hole yet, especially in the direction of torture, at such an early stage in our development. I am fully aware that later Empires and civilizations have used cruel measures such as this as effective forms of punishment and deterrence, at least in the case of the Romans and some of the Chinese Dynasties. So while I am leery about this choice I do believe it could be a credible one all the same.
For the last two choices, I don't think any of them will go well at all. Right now we are on a war footing for the most part, and our stability is still fragile enough as it is. Hero or not, one slip up could cause cataclysmic fracturing. By letting off those who know about these plots with easy punishments or none at all, I don't think we would have a credible deterrent against future actions, nor would we incentivize people to blow the whistle like this. Perhaps this could influence our values for the better, but at this stage it is not worth it.
When the Hundred Bands finally broke, they were pursued back almost to the doorstep of their ancestral homelands. Blood was spilled in their wake as the Fangs sought out weak points and the arrows of the People plunged into their backs. It was another, humiliating, futile defeat for the Hundred Bands within living memory.
That had to sting. Kaspar wondered, how much longer could they keep it up?
Kaspar thinks that the only way such a decisive confrontation would work is if the Hundred Bans are already reeling from external circumstances when you sack their settlement.
From what the QM has told us IC, a decisive confrontation would only occur if the Hundred Bands were already reeling from external circumstances. Consider for a moment the fact that we just had a very decisive confrontation with the Hundred Bands. Three of their Big Men decided to unite, well sort of, in order to lay siege to us at the Fingers. In that siege we weathered assault after assault from them, whittling down their numbers before we finally raided them with our elite warriors who were able to rout them utterly. If this isn't a decisive confrontation in terms of scale or importance, then I don't know what is. What makes me curious however is what outside factors could have potentially prompted this, if at all. Obviously this turn the seasons weren't as nice as they normally were as noted in the update, however at the same time I doubt this is what is causing them to reel significantly as they were confident enough to send a force northwards. If we take internal factors as an external circumstance of sorts, that could be plausible. We've seen in the update that there were tensions between at least one of the Big Men with the others both in the form of a fight and the initial signal fires. Perhaps their people internally forced their hand to commit to this attack or risk revolt or fracturing due to the danger we've become.
If this is so, I think we should think for a moment whether or not we should try to raid them soon if given the choice, as if we can exploit this rift, while they are already defeated, we can perhaps give them the knife through the heart that we've been waiting for and shatter them forever with a raid on their settlement.
[ ] [Fangs] Commit to Excellence! (Upgrade Honoured Elites)
[ ] [Fangs] Tie it in religiously (Build Shrine: Fingers)
[ ] [Fangs] In story (+5 Prestige)
[ ] [Fangs] As companions of the Big Man (Promote Folk Wrestling + Increase Hunting: Dogs)
Interesting options given here. I like the fact that we now have two elite martial units, especially since this one brings in our dog companions as well. Now onto the choices.
I like the first option very much. Upgrading honoured elites is a good way to getting ourselves a core of warrior elites for the fights to come, which I remind people will likely be sooner rather than later. Not only do we have the Barrow Builders to our direct southwest, who already seem pretty warlike, I'd just like to remind people about a key tidbit of information concerning them:
Refugees from the south had come north and dislodged the Peace Seekers from their space along the eastern great bay. The poor weather had caused many crops to fail and inspired a new orgy of violence in the dangerous but fertile regions to the south. Refugees, warriors, and raiders, streamed away, seeking better fortunes elsewhere.
It seems like the Barrow Builders were not even the strongest of the potential tribes to the south of us considering that they are refugees. We already know from past updates that the land south of us is fertile, filled with warlike people, and with the Barrow Builders already possessing a Palisade and great melee warriors we are going to need all of the help we are going to get. I know some people don't like the idea of stratification, but as the QM has reiterated before, this is how it works. A warrior elite is much better investment than that of a militia.
While building a shrine would be a nice decision, in comparison to the other options available I don't think it compares too much as building a shrine is something we can do normally through actions anyway when we choose to.
Commemorating things in story is a curious one. While I am not too sure about how useful prestige is at the moment, that value is rather large comparatively, and seems hard to get, unless we do something like eliminate the Hundred Bands or something. @Redium What exactly will prestige do for us at the moment? What does our current prestige already do, since I don't know how this functions mechanically?
Finally, while I do like the symbolism of the last option, the way that it is represented mechanically seems to me like something we can replicate later if we choose to. So while it is my second choice option currently until the above is explained, it is not a close second.
Altogether as others have indicated, options that upgrade our values are very valuable ones as values tend to last the length of the quest and will constantly provide buffs to us. Upgrading seems to occur rarely, so when it comes to the options proffered, I will go with the top choice.
[ ] [Megaproject] At least 2 new technologies (exploding dice)
[ ] [Megaproject] At least 1 new Explore discovery (exploding dice)
[ ] [Megaproject] Upgrade a random value
[ ] [Megaproject] Next leader is Heroic Admin
When it comes to the first choice it is a very solid option. At this point in time, when technological progression can make a very huge impact due to how much a technological leap can mean in relative terms, getting not one but two technologies is a very big deal. Since the technologies themselves are not specified, I am going to hazard that the ones we get might likely be random, but that's fine, at this point I don't think there's really any technological dead ends so anything we get now can still be expanded upon.
Not entirely sure what exactly a new explore discovery would do for us, as I am pretty sure the map has already been set down and decided, so it is unlikely that choosing this will suddenly reveal a secret wonder that we didn't know was there before.
Quick question though @Redium what exactly does exploding dice mean in this context? Does it mean that rolls in the top two choices if chosen will explode, and if so what would the results mean mechanically?
The third choice also seems very valuable considering the fact that all of the values we have right now are pretty beneficial for us, so an upgrade for any of these could only help in the long term.
Finally, a heroic administrator is nothing to scoff at either, though compared to the other options I would personally prefer a heroic warrior or diplomat.
In any case here is my vote taking all of the above into consideration:
[X] [Know] Be given a severe, but reduced punishment.
[X] [Fangs] Commit to Excellence! (Upgrade Honoured Elites)
[X] [Megaproject] At least 2 new technologies (exploding dice)
[X] [Megaproject] Upgrade a random value
Adhoc vote count started by Japanime on Mar 24, 2018 at 2:59 PM, finished with 34 posts and 27 votes.
[X] [Fangs] Commit to Excellence! (Upgrade Honoured Elites)
[X] [Know] Be given a severe, but reduced punishment.
[X] [Fangs] Commit to Excellence! (Upgrade Honoured Elites)
[X] [Megaproject] At least 2 new technologies (exploding dice)
[X] [Know] Be given a severe, but reduced punishment.
[X] [Fangs] Commit to Excellence! (Upgrade Honoured Elites)
[X] [Megaproject] Upgrade a random value
[X] [Know] Be punished more harshly. (+1 Stability)
[X] [Fangs] As companions of the Big Man (Promote Folk Wrestling + Increase Hunting: Dogs)
[X] [Megaproject] Next leader is Heroic Admin
From what the QM has told us IC, a decisive confrontation would only occur if the Hundred Bands were already reeling from external circumstances. Consider for a moment the fact that we just had a very decisive confrontation with the Hundred Bands. Three of their Big Men decided to unite, well sort of, in order to lay siege to us at the Fingers. In that siege we weathered assault after assault from them, whittling down their numbers before we finally raided them with our elite warriors who were able to rout them utterly. If this isn't a decisive confrontation in terms of scale or importance, then I don't know what is. What makes me curious however is what outside factors could have potentially prompted this, if at all. Obviously this turn the seasons weren't as nice as they normally were as noted in the update, however at the same time I doubt this is what is causing them to reel significantly as they were confident enough to send a force northwards. If we take internal factors as an external circumstance of sorts, that could be plausible. We've seen in the update that there were tensions between at least one of the Big Men with the others both in the form of a fight and the initial signal fires. Perhaps their people internally forced their hand to commit to this attack or risk revolt or fracturing due to the danger we've become.
This confrontation wasn't decisive. It was a brutal loss for the Hundred Bands, but it's not the type of thing that would cause them to immediately Shatter. It is another chip at the foundation, though.
I essentially meant in that quote that all you're really capable of it pushing the Hundred Bands over the line to Shattering if they're already struggling. You're not really in a position to force them to Shatter all on your own.
Neat, it looks like we rolled really well for our Megaproject this turn seeing as it essentially got upgraded. I wonder if our Great Relay will be able to do this:
Didn't know what soapstone was, or what it could be used for before this, but now that I do I am very interested in seeing if we could integrate the Arrow Lake Tribe into our own. Soapstone appears to be good for use in architecture and art, and while we don't really have much of the latter, that doesn't mean we won't need it sometime in the future.
Soapstone is just a different type of stone. It's desirable because it's soft and easily shaped while also being resistant to extremes of hot and cold. It's a type of metamorphic rock that's primarily composed of talc.
In the Neolithic, different types of stone had different uses. Flint was obviously useful in creating sharp edges, knives, axes, and blades; granite was used primarily as a 'striking' stone, bashed against other stones in order to cause them to shatter; soapstone was used primarily when you needed to create an elaborately shaped or intricate object; limestone was used in order to produce lime and whitewash, etc.
@Redium What exactly will prestige do for us at the moment? What does our current prestige already do, since I don't know how this functions mechanically?
Prestige is a measure of who's the biggest kid on the block. It makes other tribes more willing to treat you with respect the higher you get. It also effects how resilient and respected your culture and religion are. High prestige also makes other people think twice before taking a swing at you. Of course, being the most prestigious kid on the block also makes it tempting for aggressive upstarts to come along and knock you down a peg. On the other hand, these aggressive newcomers are likely to take a swing at you anyway since they're aggressive so that's less of a drawback than it sounds.
Quick question though @Redium what exactly does exploding dice mean in this context? Does it mean that rolls in the top two choices if chosen will explode, and if so what would the results mean mechanically?
Exploding dice means that I'll roll them until I get at least one success. I'll then keep rolling until I stop getting successes. You're only likely to get the minimum two technologies (i.e. sled improvements, smoke signal language, etc.) or one discovery (Natural Wonder, another useful edible or medicinal plant, natural resources, additional water ways which would take you around behind the Hundred Bands, etc.) stuff like that.
Prestige is a measure of who's the biggest kid on the block. It makes other tribes more willing to treat you with respect the higher you get. It also effects how resilient and respected your culture and religion are. High prestige also makes other people think twice before taking a swing at you. Of course, being the most prestigious kid on the block also makes it tempting for aggressive upstarts to come along and knock you down a peg. On the other hand, these aggressive newcomers are likely to take a swing at you anyway since they're aggressive so that's less of a drawback than it sounds.
Its actually MORE helpful in some ways, since the aggressive newcomers most likely will take a swing at you to assert dominance, which means that they do so before they gather any local allies or resources. Rather than them nibbling their way up the food chain(in exchange you basically commit yourself to be Shield for the region since raiders go for you first)
Soapstone is just a different type of stone. It's desirable because it's soft and easily shaped while also being resistant to extremes of hot and cold. It's a type of metamorphic rock that's primarily composed of talc.
In the Neolithic, different types of stone had different uses. Flint was obviously useful in creating sharp edges, knives, axes, and blades; granite was used primarily as a 'striking' stone, bashed against other stones in order to cause them to shatter; soapstone was used primarily when you needed to create an elaborately shaped or intricate object; limestone was used in order to produce lime and whitewash, etc.
IIRC most neolithic civilizations didn't discover limestone's qualities that early though, it was just used as a construction stone because it was easier to work than granite and also looked pretty.
Its just the fire nuts who'd get there early because they tried to burn everything. Including and especially the rocks.
[X] [Know] Be punished as harshly as the criminals themselves.
[X] [Fangs] Commit to Excellence! (Upgrade Honoured Elites)
[X] [Megaproject] At least 2 new technologies (exploding dice)
[X] [Know] Be given a severe, but reduced punishment.
[X] [Fangs] Commit to Excellence! (Upgrade Honoured Elites)
[X] [Megaproject] At least 2 new technologies (exploding dice)
[X] [Megaproject] Upgrade a random value
[X] [Know] Be given a severe, but reduced punishment.
[X] [Fangs] Commit to Excellence! (Upgrade Honoured Elites)
[X] [Megaproject] Upgrade a random value
[X] [Know] Be given a severe, but reduced punishment.
[X] [Fangs] Commit to Excellence! (Upgrade Honoured Elites)
[X] [Megaproject] At least 2 new technologies (exploding dice) (Gained: Smoke Signal Language, Dog Sleds, Birch Bark Canoe)
After their stinging defeat, the Hundred Bands ceased to trouble the People. No more did their men range north and harass hunters or woodsmen. When the People ranged south, not in force, but as explorers, they found the Hundred Bands to give ground before them. Kaspar wasn't keen to press too much, but he was glad to have the breathing room. Only the oldest among the People's elders could remember a time before the war with the Hundred Bands. If things he continued, the People could easily forget the wonders of peace.
Not that Kaspar expected the war with the Hundred Bands to be completely over; the enemy's ethos would not allow it. There would likely be flare ups in the future after the Hundred Bands recovered, but those were distant concerns for distant years. They might come back, but without a quick victory, it was likely that they would just let the rivalry die. The Hundred Bands placed great emphasis in succeeding after defeat, but facing another muddled quagmire would quickly sap their resolve. In some ways, ambiguous or middling situations were worse than great defeats for the Hundred Bands.
Still... there was one thing that Kaspar could be thankful of the Hundred Band for. Their ability to transmit messages across their many isles through signals of smoke and fire tied together an otherwise disparate tribe. The network necessary to sustain communication was perhaps one of the few things that they held sacred. Speaking to some of the People's more recent captives, he managed to piece together enough of the symbolism in order to create his own. The time of day the fires were lit, the numbers lit, how much smoke was allowed to drift into the skies; all of that had very specific meanings.
When the People originally created their fire relay, there had been one message and one response: extreme crisis, send everyone. By varying things, more nuanced messages could be sent. Instead of calling for help, the Fingers could let Crystal Lake know that Arrow Lake had arrived and were offering lapis luzili and other trade goods. Or Crystal Lake could let the Fingers know when the Great River had melted enough that it was no longer capable of supporting the weight of a dog sled.
Speaking of, the dog sleds for use in winter had also been noticeably improved. The central basket had been made larger and the People learned to better shape the frame by heating and molding the timber used in the frame. The entire structure had been strengthened by increased bindings and fire hardening. It was by no means a comfortable ride, but it was one that greatly increased the speed of the People. During winters, a caravan of the People could nearly fly. The trip from Crystal Lake to the Fingers could be completed in five days. It also put the Hundred Bands firmly within range of a decapitation strike.
It would take a while for the required number of dog sleds to be built and the dogs to be bred, but once they were, it would be easy for the People to load them up in the depths of winter and burn out their old foe. The Fangs and the Ember-Eyes were well suited to such a task. The question was: why? The Hundred Bands had pulled back, and the violence was no more. It could resume, but sleds could be sent out render the enemy into ash and dust at that point.
Being proactive in wiping them out might seem to be a good idea, but what came afterwards? Based on what he had gleamed from Hundred Bands captives, they had neighbours to the west and to the south. Fragments of the Hundred Bands who'd split off in their primordial war, joining up with other tribes they had found. While the South Band were not exceptionally noteworthy, the Band to the West was. Supposedly, the tribe there had created an entire island! One so massive that it absolutely dwarfed the Great Islands that made up the heartlands of the Hundred Bands.
How such magic was possible, Kaspar didn't know. What he did know was that the West had slowly pushed the Hundred Bands back, driving them from a major peninsula they'd claimed on the mainland. One of the Great Islands had even begun to fall under periodic attack.
The lake past the Hundred Bands was full of tribes, just like the Hundred Bands. If the People's current enemy were to be wiped out, all it would leave them with would be an open door. Would the tribe that came to replace the Hundred Bands be any better? Unlikely, Kaspar thought. They would just be replacing one, weakening neighbour with ones that were surging in power. On the flip side, if the People could claim the lands of the Hundred Bands, they could use trade to gain favour with their neighbours and then leverage that into a web of alliances.
On the third hand (one which Kaspar clearly did not have), they would leave the issue of the Peace Seekers to the west unaddressed. They had not come for the People and, for whatever reason, had seemingly concealed the location of Crystal Lake from their puppet masters among the Barrow Builders. The reasons behind that move were unclear. Maybe some residual feeling for the sons and daughters of cousins long lost? Perhaps it was their ethos of peace, they knew that there would likely be war if the Barrow Builders came from Crystal Lake. Perhaps there was even a hint of pragmatism in their hearts, war would put them on the front lines.
Then there was the North to deal with...
Kaspar winced as a red hot stone was driven through the side of his head and crawled up the top of his skull. A quick sip of evergreen tea sent the throbbing, scorching pain descending back into the depths of his mind. There was so much to do and so little time to do it.
The question remained, should the People try to launch a strike against the Hundred Bands?
[ ] [Raid] Yes (Raid: Hundred Bands)
[ ] [Raid] No, focus on food. (Increase Aquaculture: Wild Rice)
[ ] [Raid] No, party! (Annual Festival)
[ ] [Raid] No, rearm. (Promote Folk Wrestling)
[ ] [Raid] No, study. (Study Fire)
The first thing that Kaspar organized were trade expeditions to Arrow Lake and to the wanderers of the North Hinterlands. The People had enemies within the Hundred Bands and their ties to the Peace Seekers were non-existent. All it would take would be a single incident to spark more rounds of raids and warfare.
The People wouldn't be able to withstand that.
During the warm summers, the People dispersed from their heartland settlements and roamed in small bands, collecting food and building up a store of resources to outlast the winter. Most of the time, during the summer, their settlements were basically empty. For the winter months, they would gather within their great walled settlements and wait out the snow. If they experienced one raid, it was possible for them to retreat behind their walls for a few weeks. It would mean that they'd have to work harder in order to make up for lost time gathering food, but it was easy enough to deal with.
If multiple tribes started to raid them, much less coordinated to do so, it might mean that the People could no longer gather food reliably for months at a time. It would force them into a grinding attrition where they had to win crushing victories just to find the time to gather food. If they didn't, they would be picked off en mass as their enemy could concentrate force in a few raiders while the People could effectually respond. It wasn't a likely scenario, necessarily, but Kaspar knew the simple truth of the world. It is out to get you.
Both trade missions went over well, bringing back reserves of ivory and lapis luzili. The People's quartz, citrine, amethyst, obsidian, and sugar were warmly welcomed. Among the Northern Hinterlands, obsidian in particular was in massive demand. According to reports confirmed by traders, the tribes of the Northern Hinterlands were primarily hunters that stalked massive beasts. Twice as tall as a grown man, the massive beasts has enormous pointed white horns that came from their mouths. Between that they had a... the traders weren't sure if it was a nose or a tongue that hung between their horns. The beasts used both to root through the northern forests, extracting roots, branches, fruits, nuts, and a dozen other foods that could fit within their gaping maws.
The source of the North's ivory, these great beasts required a mastery of fire and large, coordinated teams of hunters to take down. Properly crafted obsidian blades made killing these great beasts substantially easier and caused far fewer of the northern hunters to die. They considered it a good deal to offer the People relatively useless ivory in exchange. Nowhere near as hard (or as useful) as bone, it's primary use was in making pretty things. Everyone liked pretty things, but they didn't fill your belly or comfort a families after one of their own was crushed on a hunt.
While the People had orkers instead of the trumpeters, they could appreciate pretty things. Kaspar ordered shrines to be built on the holy places surrounding both of the People's settlements. Both buildings were small, with the centerpieces being carvings of ivory inlaid with gemstones; an emblem of citrine fire for the Fingers and a wolf encrusted in quartz for Crystal Lake. While the idols were new, and slowly started to become a focus of the People's veneration, the real change was in the shaman.
Before the shrines were built, the shaman had lived within the People, essentially as any other member. With the shrines, they now had somewhere to congregate. It gave them space to practice and perform magic as well as take on acolyte to train in their secret arts. It also made organizing everything quite a bit easier. Instead of having to verify each and every shaman and arrange their delivery of food, Kaspar could delegate that to the shrines to sort out amongst themselves.
It was a really effective system. Something to keep in mind for the future. Before that future arrived, there was only time to train and improve.
Value Upgraded: Honoured Elite -> I Want To Be The Very Best
Among the People, it is not a goal, but an obligation to be the best that you can be. Those who are gifted become exalted by their peers, recognized far and wide as people of respect. To be great among the People is to be like no one ever was.
Pros: Increased effect of raising elite units, increased generation of Traditions, general competence increases
Cons: Losses in combat are more severe, increased social stratification, increased costs for many actions