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Avatar: The Last Dicebender (A:TLA/A:LOK Quest)

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Vote Tally : Avatar: The Last Dicebender (A:TLA/A:LOK Quest) | Page 46 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 1145-1224]
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[X] "Will free you." You can't take his life, but nor can you just leave him to suffer. He is stuck here, but... what if he was given new form, new life? Allowed to leave and do as he wished, no longer shackled to his role as Garden Keeper, free to explore life?
-[X] Enter the Avatar State, "you" put him here, so "you" should know how to free him.
No. of Votes: 17
Ct613hulu
A Nation's Virtue
BunnyLord
butchock
Dirk93
Doomed Wombat
Funeral Pyre
Marlin
NeverDies
One Autumn Leaf
Quest
Rjrulew
Rossum
Tetsurou
Timewinders
Trondason
wornchalice8081

[x] "Will do it." You can understand his pain and you decide to go along with his will. Let Hue-Sar die.
No. of Votes: 14
DocMatoi
DarkKing98
Derek58
Fabled Ranger
GreyDragon0
Grigori
hcvquizibo
Japanime
Nianque
Ridiculously Average Guy
RookDeSuit
Threnodist
wildman902
Zeroth Jupi

[X] "Will free you." You can't take his life, but nor can you just leave him to suffer. He is stuck here, but... what if he was given new form, new life? Allowed to leave and do as he wished, no longer shackled to his role as Garden Keeper, free to explore life?
No. of Votes: 2
JokingWolf
UbeOne

Total No. of Voters: 33
 
Dirk93 said:
Are you sure it is permanent I mean reincarnation could happen, I think enlightenment and becoming one with the universe seems like the only permanent option.
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I assume you're talking about in the Avatar universe.

The thing about that is:

1). I don't think it's ever been verifiably shown that people other than the Avatar reincarnate.

2). Even with the Avatar, each iteration is pretty much their own distinct person with no memory of what happened aside from meditation letting them basically speak with past Avatars. Once an Avatar dies, any skill they had in meditation or spirituality gets "reset" for the next ones.

3). Everyone dies eventually and if we're going by reincarnation then all their, memories, skills, strength, etc basically get reset to zero so the next incarnation has to learn them all over from scratch. Except in very rare things involving meditation, and that doesn't even let you transfer over a "consciousness" or skills.


Basically, dying and reincarnating is pretty much just dying. If we kill Hue-Sar, at the very most we can expect this wonderful unique tree to die forever, and maybe decades from now a human might grow up, become a monk or learn about meditation, and be able to talk to a really depressed tree and learn how it wanted to die.


If we free him from this, then that same exact thing could happen later once he dies in his new form. Some monk in the future recalls a past life, but instead learns of a tree who spent eons protecting a forrest and was eventually transformed into a sky bison or something by the Avatar so he could explore the world.

That's even assuming that sapient trees (or anyone not the Avatar) reincarnate in the first place.
 
Rossum said:
Basically, dying and reincarnating is pretty much just dying. If we kill Hue-Sar, at the very most we can expect this wonderful unique tree to die forever, and maybe decades from now a human might grow up, become a monk or learn about meditation, and be able to talk to a really depressed tree and learn how it wanted to die.
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It depends on how much of a spirit he is. In Avatar, spirits don't die. They just take on a new form. It's possible for them to die, but barring spiritual shenanigans it requires them to incarnate into a physical body like the Ocean and Moon spirits. Even then the Moon spirit found a way to come back.
 
Quest said:
It depends on how much of a spirit he is. In Avatar, spirits don't die. They just take on a new form. It's possible for them to die, but barring spiritual shenanigans it requires them to incarnate into a physical body like the Ocean and Moon spirits. Even then the Moon spirit found a way to come back.
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I do not recall any mentions of Spirits reincarnating. Moon legit died, and would have stayed dead if Yui didn't give up her own life to bring back the Moon. That was a thing that happened. The Moon wouldn't have came back if Yui didn't sacrifice herself.

They had physical form in the first place, because they decided to leave the Spirit World way back when to live in the human world (for some unexplained reason), and chose to take the form of fish in doing so.

Edit: Actually, I'm rather certain that Raava and Vaatu were noted to be unique in thier "Will not die when killed"ness. You can not have one without the other, and if you destroy one it will just regrow within the other. They were unique in this way.
 
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Trondason said:
I do not recall any mentions of Spirits reincarnating. Moon legit died, and would have stayed dead if Yui didn't give up her own life to bring back the Moon. That was a thing that happened. The Moon wouldn't have came back if Yui didn't sacrifice herself.

They had physical form in the first place, because they decided to leave the Spirit World way back when to live in the human world (for some unexplained reason), and chose to take the form of fish in doing so.
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My point:

Spirit dies in spirit form = change to new form. Example: Lady Tienhai from one of the comics, who changed from a humanoid spirit to "several cranefish".

Spirit dies in physical body = True death, example: Tui, the moon spirit
 
[X] "Will free you." You can't take his life, but nor can you just leave him to suffer. He is stuck here, but... what if he was given new form, new life? Allowed to leave and do as he wished, no longer shackled to his role as Garden Keeper, free to explore life?
-[X] Enter the Avatar State, "you" put him here, so "you" should know how to free him.
 
Quest said:
My point:

Spirit dies in spirit form = change to new form. Example: Lady Tienhai from one of the comics, who changed from a humanoid spirit to "several cranefish".

Spirit dies in physical body = True death, example: Tui, the moon spirit
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Tienhai must not have actually died, for that would have been death in physical form. Odds are that, as she approached death, she just left the body behind, became a spirit again, and then became the cranefish. Old Iron, when he "dies" we see him transform into some crawfish-like-things, and we clearly see him ready for that "death" and accepting it, so that "death" is the spirit willingly sheding it's form in favor of a new one.

Perhaps the confusion is a case of True Death, and Technical Death. True Death, you are gone and that's that. Technical Death though, is when you stop being YOU, and become something else instead. Yui, for example, died, yet is still kinda-sorta alive in the form of the Moon Spirit, not being truely dead because she's still around and she can still think and interact with people. That is what seems to have happened with Tienhai and Old Iron as well, they ceased to be who they origionally were, in favor of taking on a new form, thus "dying".
 
[X] "Will free you." You can't take his life, but nor can you just leave him to suffer. He is stuck here, but... what if he was given new form, new life? Allowed to leave and do as he wished, no longer shackled to his role as Garden Keeper, free to explore life?
-[X] Enter the Avatar State, "you" put him here, so "you" should know how to free him.
 
Hmm why about this favour of strong spirit thing, that we bought? Was it used? Or it has no use here?
 
...may I point out that going Avatar state might not even help at all? It's bending bonus. Not anything else.

Also, I don't think Avatar states meditate.

Edit: Ok, nevermind that.

Also, not a good idea. At all. Like, seriously. And that's assuming entering the Avatar State will even happen.
 
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Vote Tally : Avatar: The Last Dicebender (A:TLA/A:LOK Quest) | Page 46 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 1145-1232]
##### NetTally 1.9.9

[X] "Will free you." You can't take his life, but nor can you just leave him to suffer. He is stuck here, but... what if he was given new form, new life? Allowed to leave and do as he wished, no longer shackled to his role as Garden Keeper, free to explore life?
-[X] Enter the Avatar State, "you" put him here, so "you" should know how to free him.
No. of Votes: 21
Ct613hulu
A Nation's Virtue
BunnyLord
butchock
Derek58
Dirk93
Doomed Wombat
edboy49
Funeral Pyre
Marlin
NeverDies
One Autumn Leaf
Quest
Rjrulew
Rossum
Tetsurou
Timewinders
Trondason
UbeOne
veekie
wornchalice8081

[x] "Will do it." You can understand his pain and you decide to go along with his will. Let Hue-Sar die.
No. of Votes: 13
DocMatoi
DarkKing98
Fabled Ranger
GreyDragon0
Grigori
hcvquizibo
Japanime
Nianque
Ridiculously Average Guy
RookDeSuit
Threnodist
wildman902
Zeroth Jupi

[X] "Will free you." You can't take his life, but nor can you just leave him to suffer. He is stuck here, but... what if he was given new form, new life? Allowed to leave and do as he wished, no longer shackled to his role as Garden Keeper, free to explore life?
No. of Votes: 1
JokingWolf

Total No. of Voters: 35
 
DarkKing98 said:
...may I point out that going Avatar state might not even help at all? It's bending bonus. Not anything else.

Also, I don't think Avatar states meditate.

Edit: Ok, nevermind that.

Also, not a good idea. At all. Like, seriously. And that's assuming entering the Avatar State will even happen.
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Avatar State isn't just a bending bonus.
Birdsie said:
At that point, it will be easier to do it since you have all the knowledge of your previous lives (including all of the Spirituality skill points,)
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DarkKing98 said:
The consequences are worse than any benefit you think you'll get from this.

Also, I'd like to not be an idealistic naive idiot like Aang.
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What consequences?

Also, that is your personal preference. I rather like the "Thou shalt not kill"ness of Aang, and would be fine if we mimic it. At the very least, we should be a person who is willing to explore other options, rather than just choosing murder simply because it's the most convenient for us.
 
This discussion on the death of spirits is why I loathe Legend of Korra's 2nd season. It basically robbed the spirit world of most of its mysticism by taking them from basically being Japanese kami and Chinese Yao guai that need to be appeased and work in mysterious ways to...quirky people who just need to talk more to people so we can all live together and get along.
 
Trondason said:
What consequences?

Also, that is your personal preference. I rather like the "Thou shalt not kill"ness of Aang, and would be fine if we mimic it. At the very least, we should be a person who is willing to explore other options, rather than just choosing murder simply because it's the most convenient for us.
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The consequences of the White Lotus getting an idea of where we are. I don't want to fail a major ambition because we try to 'save' a spirit using a shining beacon that will speed up their process of finding us by a few years.

Also, it's not murder.
 
DarkKing98 said:
The consequences of the White Lotus getting an idea of where we are. I don't want to fail a major ambition because we try to 'save' a spirit using a shining beacon that will speed up their process of finding us by a few years.

Also, it's not murder.
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Them getting an idea of where we are is mostly a case of them knowing we're not anywhere super big and obvious like Ba Sing Se. The fact we're here of all places means nobody is going to see us doing this, so the most they'll get is a rough idea of where we're not.

How is it not murder?
 
A Nation's Virtue said:
This discussion on the death of spirits is why I loathe Legend of Korra's 2nd season. It basically robbed the spirit world of most of its mysticism by taking them from basically being Japanese kami and Chinese Yao guai that need to be appeased and work in mysterious ways to...quirky people who just need to talk more to people so we can all live together and get along.
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Even in Airbender, fighting and killing Spirits were an option. A very dangerous and often time impractical reason, but one all the same. Moon was murdered in Book 1.
DarkKing98 said:
The consequences of the White Lotus getting an idea of where we are. I don't want to fail a major ambition because we try to 'save' a spirit using a shining beacon that will speed up their process of finding us by a few years.

Also, it's not murder.
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It only helps them get an idea for where wer aren't, rather than where we are, and that help will become obsolete within the week. We weren't in Ba Sing Se when we went into the Avatar State, but who is to say we didn't enter it sometime afterwards?

It's totally murder. Consensual Murder, but still murder. We should explore other options rather than just taking the most convenient one.
 
DarkKing98 said:
The consequences of the White Lotus getting an idea of where we are. I don't want to fail a major ambition because we try to 'save' a spirit using a shining beacon that will speed up their process of finding us by a few years.
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There are way too many unknowns regarding the White Lotus for you to be able to have any confidence that them finding us would cause the failure of our 'become a RCPD officer' ambition.

We could possibly convince them that the experience of being a cop in the city where people from all the nations intermingle would be extremely valuable for the Avatar to have.
 
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Trondason said:
Whatever he wants. As for motivation, what is OUR motivation? We don't really got one, most people don't, we just live, and enjoy living.

He could follow us for a time if he wished, and we could try to show him around Life. Or he could wander off completely on his own. The point is, it's HIS choice. If he still wishes death, he is now capable of persuing such a wish rather than requiring us to inflict it upon him. He now has a choice other than "Die or be a slave forever".
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Timewinders said:
What is anyone's motivation for living? It looks like he's suicidal, but most suicidal people who fail in their suicide attempt later report that they regretted the decision but thought it was too late after they jumped off the bridge or took pills or whatever. You see people do things like attempt to overdose on pills and then call 911, for example. People have a strong instinctual desire to live. Suicide is usually an emotional reaction during a time of crisis, and once the person passes that crisis even if they're still depressed they tend not to attempt to commit suicide until the next time they are in a crisis. This is why in places where euthanasia is legal it's usually only allowed for terminal illness.
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This isn't an argument against the write-in but I do think you do yourself a disservice too tightly linking this to human cases. Kinda hypocritical of me since I earlier mentioned euthanasia but this spirit isn't human. As far as we know, he won't die of old age. There are no support groups, no family and there are limits to deeply a spirit can integrate into a community, if he'd even want to. He also apparently feels nothing but contempt for his fellow spirits and is tired of the task set for him.

Once again, not an argument against offering. But it's a fallacy to write off his request as an ill thought out mistake just because humans often feel that way about their suicide attempts.
 
Rjrulew said:
All sentient beings are shaped by experience and this one has had no experience of existence but the one our past self forced it into
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But I think it's far too arrogant to suggest that the fact that simply because this being lacks our own experiences, they somehow don't have the right to make decisions for themself. This still isn't an argument against the write-in, but a rejection of dismissing the spirits right to choose.
Grigori said:
The only reason I see to disagree is if you don't believe the person capable of making their own decisions and I doubt this thousand year old being made this request lightly.
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