Anyways, someone give me ideas for Angels to build using the hacked system I worked out with @EarthScorpion and I'll see what I can do. :V

Building horrifying theotechnological agents of a cold machine god is great.

The Metatron. You know the scene in Matrix when the Architect talks to Neo? That's him. His whole purpose is to talk down to man, to explain your insignificance and crush your mind with cosmic truths.

Why? Who know. He doesn't, and he doesn't care. He's merely the (actively) uncaring Voice of (The-)God(-Machine). Or at least a convincing facsimile. And he's here to unmake your world with a short conversation in which he tells no lies.
 
Does their appearance automatically include the monitors behind them or is that just part of the scenery?

Depends. Will seeing the scope of possibility as it can play out, the set of possible actions you could take in response to his statement echo before you act, seeing that impossible prognostication, help break you?
 
So, I've been looking at Guide to the Sabbat, and I noticed that there's a vampire in Italy who is trying to get all the Italian Garou to join the Sabbat. That seems like an interesting, if doomed, endeavor.
 
what does "join" mean exactly?
"you don't attack us, we don't attack you"?

It means actual membrship. Without becoming Abominations. Like, turning the Itallian Sabbat into a multi-species organization. He's also trying to recruit the Mafia.

And I must make a correction, in that it was not the Guide to the Sabbat that this appeared in, it was in the Players Guide to the Sabbat, a completly different book.


Incidentally, Players Guide to the Sabbat was republished as a PDF under the title Storyteller's Guide to the Sabbat. And Storyteller's Guide to the Sabbat was republished as Player's Guide to the Sabbat. Because someone screwed up the proofs and accidentally swapped the two titles when prepping the PDFs for publishing.
 
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TL: Kismat, The Breaker of Fate
Kismat, The Breaker of Fate

"The Cycle will draw to a close sooner than hoped by those mad fools. All will be freed from humanity."

Unlucky is the Mage who stumbles upon this being, ancient and steeped in evil, and unwilling even to put up a pretense of sanity or anything other than malign will. A short, bald Indian man in the robes of a guru, his path tools are highly traditional, and his High Speech is impeccable, and he does not bother to learn any language other than it and his native language, which is far different from modern Hindi, placing him at almost eight centuries old.

Those who enter who are Mad, Left-Handed, or even Banishers find that he welcomes them along, happy to see them go up and see what madness they find, but both Pentacle Mages and Seers find themselves barred, though as his Garden is out of the way, very few find him. Those that do, he says, are Fated to meet him, and thus should be destroyed by one means or another.

He does not always destroy an Astral form, for it is better to curse it, in most circumstances.

His Garden is a wilderness, but one that seems hollow and fake. As if the very trees themselves and the tigers are nothing more than the stuff of dreams, as they indeed are. This, he sometimes tells captives, is the nature of the world. Even the pitiful Mages who deny the truth believe that there is something beyond the Fallen World.

They are just wrong in what it is. For Kismat, a name he might not have taken in life, is a Scelesti, and he seeks to break the power of fate itself, to overthrow the world and destroy it, replaced by the Abyss, after which all human souls will become Abyssal Entities, beyond humanity and morality.

Stories say that he was never truly a member of any Order in his heart. Stories say that he was a monster who killed thousands of Sleepers by whispering poison in the ears of Hindu rulers (and a few who kept alive Buddhist ways as well) who missed the twists in his strange philosophy. Stories say that he was an Arrow who grew to hate the oaths and weakness of his order. Stories say he was a member of a Nameless Order that sought Ascension above all else. Each story is true, across a long life in which he found methods to survive past any other humans and wielded the Abyss as a weapon to destroy everything in the name of ultimate release.

Finally, he was cornered, and he retreated in his Astral form. He claims he intended to stop there, but others suspect he was searching for the Old Man, Aeon of the Abyss, seeking some last power to destroy his enemies: they claim that he was too arrogant to abandon his real power for a half-life.

As it is, his Ordeal is simple. Any that pledge by a powerful Fate-like Oath to seek out the Aeon of the Abyss and ask wisdom on the nature of the Abyss can pass, as well as any others that he recognizes as one of his own, or likely to cause damage and destruction upon the world.

He has two recent projects. The first is his belief that Destiny itself is a weapon that can be used against itself. Those Mages who pass through who have Destinies that seem like they might help humanity have them twisted by his quasi-Fate-magic, while those who have fell Destinies see these strengthened to bring doom upon the world sooner.

Second, he now lacks the power to call in the Abyss, and has for centuries. Normally he resorts to tricks, pushing a Mage to use Vulgar spells to counter his Vulgar spells (for a ghost such as he can still invoke Paradox, even if he cannot control it anymore), but recently he has gotten an idea. If cultists could bring and trap a Sleeper in there with him, feeding the meditating form to keep him there, he could use the person as a means of making any fight invoke as much Abyssal power as possible.

Magic:

Besides being a Master of Time and Fate, he has also Mastered Life and Prime, and is an Adept in Force, as well as a Disciple in Space and Spirit. He is thus highly equipped, with a huge library of Rotes, most of them vulgar or focusing on control or destruction. He strengthens or weakens destiny, cursing people and reading their futures at will, and altering them as much as he can from his prison, while throwing around fireballs like he doesn't care about Paradox (he doesn't.) Prime is used to master and control magic itself, and Space to extend his power as far as he can get it. Spirit is less useful to him now, and yet he does sometimes use it to counter any attempts by Thyrsus to get one up on him.

Life he uses as a weapon, to control bodies and destroy bodies, sickening the Astral forms and using Space to create a sympathetic link. If one transforms a hero destined to win a Kingdom by force of arms into a sickly old woman, then that is something she must deal with.

He sometimes regrets that he had little interest in the Mind Arcana in life (and hated the Matter Arcana as only someone who wishes to destroy all matter and stuff can), because it would be quite useful to him. Thus, a Scelesti who provides him with items or imbued spells that can do this are granted great favors and more of his strange, horrific wisdom.

*******

A/N: Put him in charge of a network of Scelesti, and he could totally be the main villain of a Chronicle. Or at least, a side villain (owing to the limits of his motion) being used (and using) some more mortal villain. He's absolutely beyond the pale, a monster that even the Seers would do anything to destroy yet again, and yet he has been very lucky so far, and powerful enough that meeting him at random could be a real danger to a PC party. It's thus encouraged to have him *not* be a random encounter or anything like that.
 
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So I'm perhaps GMing at a LGBT convention (Queervention yeah!) and the organizers have asked the games be relevant to LGBT thematics. It's not an obligation but would be better.

I'm currently hesitating between Promethean, Changeling and Mage. Thoughts?
 
I'm currently hesitating between Promethean, Changeling and Mage. Thoughts?
Do Beast, and make sure to draw attention to the fact that you can play as an SJW- Heck, there's even an example of one.

:V

More seriously, I don't think the game you choose specifically matters all that much? As a GM, you've got quite a bit of discretion as to what themes you're bringing to the table, even if the work you're using obviously brings themes of it's own.
 
So I'm perhaps GMing at a LGBT convention (Queervention yeah!) and the organizers have asked the games be relevant to LGBT thematics. It's not an obligation but would be better.

I'm currently hesitating between Promethean, Changeling and Mage. Thoughts?
Well Changelings are known to change gender as far as i remember, you could have one that for Genderfluid people?
alternatively a changeling that identfies more with one gender, and dislikes when they are the opposite?

of course you could just have the characters be LGBT no matter what they are? a Mage that is looking for a spell to change their body to what they truly are, that sort of thing?
 
So I'm perhaps GMing at a LGBT convention (Queervention yeah!) and the organizers have asked the games be relevant to LGBT thematics. It's not an obligation but would be better.

I'm currently hesitating between Promethean, Changeling and Mage. Thoughts?

I'd suggest Promethean or Changeling, because both have themes which are more directly applicable to the history of discrimination, violence, and abuse that LGBT people suffered and still suffer.

Mage is the odd man out.
 
I've considered redoing the Kingdom of Obsidian for W:tO since I've actually studied Mesoamerican history/culture. Like for one thing, if I stuck with an Olmec origin, a lot of the terminology would need to be changed since it's all in Nahuatl (the language of the Mexica/Aztecs and other related ethnicities), when the Olmecs most likely spoke a Mixe-Zorque language. But this is the LEAST of cannon DKoO's issues.
 
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I'd suggest Promethean or Changeling, because both have themes which are more directly applicable to the history of discrimination, violence, and abuse that LGBT people suffered and still suffer.

Mage is the odd man out.

I thought Mage for the whole identity theme with Shadow Names and the fact you appeear as your idealized self in the Astral and the whole liberating experience of Awakening, but I admit this is more because I love Nmage.
 
I thought Mage for the whole identity theme with Shadow Names and the fact you appeear as your idealized self in the Astral and the whole liberating experience of Awakening, but I admit this is more because I love Nmage.

Mages can always be socially protected if they want to be. They don't get gender dysphoria, or rather if they do it's a small spell away from being fixed.

You might not be able to cast a spell to find your true love, but you can cast a gaydar spell and get away from the uncertainty when looking.

Mind and Fate can make sure they're hidden from those who would disapprove of their life choices.

Their society is so secretive and insular that being in the closet for mundane society shouldn't register. Other mages? Probably don't care. I mean, there's probably an asshole who does, but not collectively. They transcend and transgress mortal society and norms in much more important ways.

Like, I'm sure a bunch of individual mages can invent problems for themselves here, but as a group... nah. Doesn't fit.
 
I'm currently hesitating between Promethean, Changeling and Mage. Thoughts?

Promethean and Changeling both have interesting themes for that?

I kind of really like the idea of like, a trans changeling who was maybe tricked by their Keeper because of it (young, offered an easy way out) and then of course the durance is awful and when they get back, their fetch is still around and hasn't changed. But that's more of a one person theme than like a game theme, ofc.
 
Mages can always be socially protected if they want to be. They don't get gender dysphoria, or rather if they do it's a small spell away from being fixed.

You might not be able to cast a spell to find your true love, but you can cast a gaydar spell and get away from the uncertainty when looking.

Mind and Fate can make sure they're hidden from those who would disapprove of their life choices.

Their society is so secretive and insular that being in the closet for mundane society shouldn't register. Other mages? Probably don't care. I mean, there's probably an asshole who does, but not collectively. They transcend and transgress mortal society and norms in much more important ways.

Like, I'm sure a bunch of individual mages can invent problems for themselves here, but as a group... nah. Doesn't fit.
hmm...
a Mage that just figured that out?
like, before they awakened they were in a bit of a rough spot, full of bad things, and they have just found a society that, while secret, fully accepts what they are?

it could show their journey from "Wait? REALLY!", to "things can't be this good, whats the catch" to "this is a real thing thats actually happening!" it could show their reaction to their true form in the astral, the fact that they were right, they really were that gender inside, it wasnt just a phase or in their head!
 
hmm...
a Mage that just figured that out?
like, before they awakened they were in a bit of a rough spot, full of bad things, and they have just found a society that, while secret, fully accepts what they are?

it could show their journey from "Wait? REALLY!", to "things can't be this good, whats the catch" to "this is a real thing thats actually happening!" it could show their reaction to their true form in the astral, the fact that they were right, they really were that gender inside, it wasnt just a phase or in their head!

Seems too pat and dismissive to me, but maybe I'm to cautious. I would always start from the position of trying extra hard to not hit a sensitive button, and turning issues into non-issues... I don't know.

But them, I'm CIS. People who share issues can tease and joke in ways people who don't can't.
 
Seems too pat and dismissive to me, but maybe I'm to cautious. I would always start from the position of trying extra hard to not hit a sensitive button, and turning issues into non-issues... I don't know.

But them, I'm CIS. People who share issues can tease and joke in ways people who don't can't.
hmm....what if its just MOST of the mages who are cool with it?
 
Mage is all about privilege, as in literally playing someone privileged in all of reality. I would recommend other gameline if you want something to do with a marginalized group.
 
Mage is all about privilege, as in literally playing someone privileged in all of reality. I would recommend other gameline if you want something to do with a marginalized group.

On the one hand, I somewhat agree as far as games that have an LGBTQ element, Changeling is better. But I think that you should note the way that, especially historically, this privilege doesn't actually fully destroy the lack-of-privileges that exist.

The average Sleeper doesn't care that that black woman is a Thyrsus Master, they care that it's 1920 and this is Jim Crow. Obviously, said Master could sic spirits on them, transform herself to look white (though I think many would be really uncomfortable with that) or do other things, but the prejudice and discrimination still exist.

And most people aren't in a situation where they can abandon their old life. The housewife who Awakens at 40 has kids, a life, social expectations that they've been trained into.

Which is another thing: training. Most Mages are trained under the system they live in. Their new society beats out stupid opinions of theirs (like obvious racism or sexism), or at least makes them not say it to anyone's face... or think it in front of a Mastigos, but they're still living their lives marinated in their culture.

None of this even remotely makes it as good of a way to look at a marginalized group as, say, Changeling, but there is potential there to explore themes of double-sided power. In one context, you're all powerful, and yet the world at large might still view you as something less than you are, and you have your own internalized problems to deal with.
 
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None of this even remotely makes it as good of a way to look at a marginalized group as, say, Changeling, but there is potential there to explore themes of double-sided power. In one context, you're all powerful, and yet the world at large might still view you as something less than you are, and you have your own internalized problems to deal with.
plus theres the whole "Can't overtly retaliate" bit.
having to walk through the streets, hearing all the horrible things people are saying about/to you, and being unable (at least, for the time being) to do anything about it
So I found this.

I wonder if the last few points could be used to create the lamest vampire clan.

so, the nosferatu?
 
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So I'm perhaps GMing at a LGBT convention (Queervention yeah!) and the organizers have asked the games be relevant to LGBT thematics. It's not an obligation but would be better.

I'm currently hesitating between Promethean, Changeling and Mage. Thoughts?
This ain't really my thread or my topic, but I figured I'd pipe in here to say this: Don't try to do the X-Men as a con one-shot. If your audience is LGBT-and-associated folks, they already understand forces like bigotry and otherness, they don't need the game system to reinforce that via crude metaphors for what they've already experienced. You don't need to remind them that they are hated, abused and how prejudice exists, all simply to have a fun-time game. Even, perhaps especially, if you are distancing that by proxy of magical-trappings.

Like, its real easy to say "okay so these two narratives obviously have parallels, lets just connect those parallels," but as has been already mentioned, that's a pretty tough line to tow without getting presumptive. I don't know where you stand particularly (enough to be invited to/visit a LGBT convention, anyhow!) but someone Cis using the presentation of Trans thematics is already going to be interpreted as those thematics being as-delivered by a Cis person, and the same for each variation down the line. You gotta be prepared for that, and how much you, the GM, will be showing as what your impression of "LGBT thematics" actually are. Much like how some folks might find illuminating idealizations of the True Self/fighting bigotry like superheroes to be a cathartic exercise, others might look at it as "I don't want to sit here on vacation and explore my inner dark thoughts about dysphoria with strangers/have someone I barely know pretend to be a bigot at me so I can pretend punch the faces saying those things. I get enough of this shit as-is."

If your way to uphold LGBT thematics is to make it about The Fight, you gotta be aware that most of the people attending the game will be coming out of The Fight to play in it, and return right back to The Fight once the con ends. WoD is a bleak, oppressive place, but you shouldn't feel inclined to make interacting with it feel moreso oppressive for people already living in bleak, marginalized status themselves by creating unnecessary equivalences. So that said, instead of picking your splat based on "whose metaphor is best for widespread discrimination by a world which hates and fears them," you should instead look at what splat shares the current LGBT focuses of reaching out and establishing communities with others like yourself, rediscovering lost/buried history because these issues are not new or recent, standing with unlikely allies to hold onto the places where you can freely Be who you Are, and so on.

Like, imagine a late-1960s Promethean game set in Manhattan, surrounding a throng of 'homeless youths' who have been graciously permitted to live out of the back of a low-key gay bar as liqour-runners against unexpected police raids. The crew is playing their parts in the bustling nightlife of Greenwich Village only to find themselves suddenly embroiled in the turbulent Stonewall Riots. Do they stand with and protect their newfound friends and benefactors against the unjust cops, in a modern echo of the Golem of Prague, or do they risk inciting the mobs and police they've associated with via growing Disquiet to further and more outlandish gestures of violence, possibly causing as much harm to the growing movement as themselves? Do they pull up stakes and simply leave the neighborhood to the baying wolves, putting that personal growth behind them as well?

In this sense, it doesn't really Matter how the characters or their mechanics can be coded as LGBT for the use of creating personal conflict (though several of them legit being so, that's par for the course), because the characters are already operating within the contentious history where being LGBT and the formative rise of civil rights is a conflict unto itself. Its about living in it, as the presence of a monster, not living as the monstrous version of what they already know.
 
To put things in context, Monsterhearts is well on the way to be the most played game at the convention. As a cis gay male myself I have three major themes ideas

Mage: Revolution. The most hopeful of the three. If the jailors of the world hate you, why not fight to cast them down their thrones? You have found a society that accepts you bu you must still hide from the profane. You have cast aside your former self and the name you use is what you want to become, freed from the cage the world was turned into. Still the Seers are talking on about the Chosen of the true gods have no fear of mortal retribution. A bit power fantasy but so many gay stories end in crushing despair, that's not necesserarily bad.

Promethean: Discovery. You are newly born to the world. You feel love but don't know what it is. Perhaps your creator made you from parts of both sexes and you must ascertain what sex and gender are for you. You are lost in a world you don't understand, at least at first. Are you doomed to remain or become a monster? Without models of your own kind where do you go?

Changeling: Community: You were forced from your previous life and joined a community of people like you, or you managed to recapture your former life and must share your time between both. In either case you are hunted and must keep a low profile. Also every community has its bad apples. What do you do with those who are broken by their time in Arcadia? Do you accomodate their needs, do you ignore them? Or do you shun them regardless of the shared trauma?
 
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