- Location
- New Delhi, India
... How would you answer it?
White Wolf's World of Darkness
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
I don't like the Traditions either. And why can't be more appearent than what is in the Intro chapter of the M:TA revised. The story at the start a trad mage explains all. Complete with calling humans couch potatoes, lumps of flesh lacking imagination and cattle etc. Well Fuck you too buddy.
Still Technocracy is cool.
Still Technocracy is cool.
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The Laurent Homebrew: Anant, The Bitter Seed
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Mage: The Awakening--Anant, The Bitter Seed
Introduction (For Those Not Aware): Just because we might have some virgins whose Astral cherry isn't popped, what is the Astral Realm? It is the realm of thoughts, from the personal Oneiros of each individual, to the Temenos of collective human unconscious, to the World Soul, the Anima Mundi, which has the awareness of the cosmos and the dreams of animals, and so on.
Mages, being the erstwhile masters of the universe, of course try to explore this. It is sealed off from the Temenos by the Omphalos, a Mage creation of unknown means, a great seal that a learned Mage can open to travel through, and yet also keeps out those who might otherwise trouble the Temenos and human minds.
Through it there are two paths, known as the Anthropic Redoubts, for these are the farthest signs of humanity in a place fundamentally opposed to it. The second and newest is the Swath, which represents mankind's pollution and destruction of the environment, and its impact.
The first, and oldest, is the Spire Perilous. If one believes in Atlantis, this is the Ocean Spire, the Celestial Ladder, and even if one doesn't believe that, it sure as heck is something interesting. It usually manifests as a tower, though sometimes it is a long trail, or a desert wasteland you must walk through, depending on the Mage and the circumstances, but always it is being slowly destroyed by the Typhonians, whose instinctual drive is to destroy this man-made intrusion upon the Anima Mundi.
Rather more interesting for Mages is the presence of the Gardens of Ancestors. There are many stories, but the most credible say that any mage that dies in the Anima Mundi finds their souls drawn to the Spire. This is not a simple task, since dying in the Astral does not kill you in real life, merely shocking your soul and exhausting you, but it can be done, and in many cultures, honored elder Mages would be voluntarily taken to the Spire to be ritually killed at the end of their long lives so that they might provide wisdom for future generations, stuck permanently in one of the Gardens.
As well, of course, hated enemies and Mages too dangerous to hold any other way, could be killed there and left to rot in prisons.
Either way, these ghost-like Astral beings cannot leave their Prison, but within it they possess all of the powers of their living selves.
Trapped.
This is one such Prisoner.
History: Anant lived a forthright life, or so what stories there are say. According to his own testimony, he named himself for his guardianship of a stream that seemed to be of some sacral importance in his tribe, in what is modern day Ireland, and seems to have been a Hallow of unusual properties.
When he reached old age, his wisdom and Mastery of Life and Spirit was thought so thorough that it was said that others would wish to see his wisdom, and though he lived longer than most humans, well over a hundred, his time came as it did for all men, and so his students took him to the Anima Mundi, where they ritually killed him.
And for a time, they consulted him. It was a tradition that all who took of the guardianship of this Hallow-stream with the strange properties would visit him for wisdom and guidance, though they found him diminished.
But then time passed on, and fewer and fewer came. And when some foolish English Mages messed with ley lines they did not understand and managed to destroy the stream and the Hallow by their arrogant bumbling, the trickle of students became a drip, and then fell away. Everything he ever knew changed, and the land that exists now is nothing like what he grew up with.
He has grown bitter, and his prison has grown strange. He is no monster, no mad mage to slaughter people or give into hate, and yet the rot of years has eaten on him.
Description: He is a somewhat pale man, short by modern standards, but somewhat substantial, with some strength still in his limbs, and a body that is neither withered nor bloated. He has long, white pair, that goes down to his chest, a tangle and a mess, and a broken face, with a nose that looked shattered a dozen times over, rhuemy eyes, and a smile that looked like rocky foothills.
More notably are the bits of his skin that seem to be bark, or the occasional peak of foliage that comes from him: he does not tell whether this is the effect of some ancient and forgotten Legacy, or the process of becoming as he was.
He usually wears no clothes, seeing no point to it, and besides that having possessed none when he was killed.
He is intensely lonely, and very bitter, given to rants and mood swings, and he has a voracious appetite for information about the outside world, but anything he learns, he might well complain about. The world changes, and he is left behind, though he has learned languages from his guests, especially those that fail his Ordeal.
Anant is an experienced Master of Life and Spirit, and possesses a number of other Arcana, including Prime 3 and Fate 2, and thus in theory he has a vast horde of knowledge of his culture, the secrets others have given him, and the Shadow Realm and the nature of Life in general. But he does not take apprentices, or at least, he has rejected those who think that their "Irish Blood" somehow makes them his heirs, and thus deserving of his wisdom.
For what does he care about modern Ireland, what does it have to do with his people except by location?
He lives a very lonely life, but his Masteries do allow him to create companions of sorts. He can create life itself, and does, filling his forest with animals, but he cannot give them the proper minds, having always struggled with that magic, and so he instead creates Spirits of the appropriate type, which then possess the bodies and serve as his only companions and company. He thus cares for them, despite knowing that they are not much, because they are the only things to keep him company.
They, for their part, are fierce and willing to fight with a vengeance because if their physical body is destroyed, Anant can always make another for them.
Garden: Anant's Garden is a vast forest, several miles around, filled with animals that prey on each other's bodies, playing a game that never ends, for Anant feeds them essence, and so none has to truly kill the other, and they are not allowed. A rabbit-spirit possessing a rabbit runs from a hawk-spirit holding a hawk, and when the rabbit body dies, the rabbit spirit runs off to get a new body, and continue the hunt and chase.
The trees of this forest are somewhat sickly, but old and majestic things, which fight their own battles in their thick roots for survival, for the soil is almost like sand. Anant's bitterness influences everything, and has caused the soil to provide surprisingly few nutrients. Over time, any animal body dies from the poor fare of the garden, even with the animal life they can consume, and so he must keep on creating in order to maintain the garden, which no longer sustains itself in any way.
The creatures tend to act like animals of their kind when not in his presence, but fiercer and more dangerous.
Near the center of the forest, a small hut can be found, which is where Anant sleeps, though as a ghost he needs only do so when he wishes to relieve the boredom of waking. Near the back of the forest is a iron pole, stuck in the ground. It is the end point for the Ordeal of The Hunt (see below)
[Sidebar: Ordeals? What about Andeals?] So, I'm again assuming that a lot of people might not have read Astral Realms. So what are Ordeals? Unlike with the Temenos, the Anima Mundi requires one to prove oneself to pass from one realm to the other, or from major realms to other major realms.
Thus, going from the Omphalos to the Spire might involve a game of riddles, or some complex trick, while going from the Spire to the Dreaming Earth also requires one to pass an Ordeal. Ordeals can in theory be resolved in a single roll, but if it's your first time, you really should play it out, they can be a lot of fun, and only if you're playing a Chronicle where you are going to be going back and forth across the Anima Mundi like it's your regular bus route does it make sense to mostly ignore them, or resolve them off screen.
The Ordeal can change each time, and some ordeals can happen in the physical world, thus allowing a knowledgeable Mage to bypass the hours long process to get to the Dreaming Earth, if they know that by the sacrifice of a Swallow, and the devouring of the animal whole, followed by a period of meditation, they can reach a specific point in the Dreaming Earth.
Other ordeals might merely be a toll one must pay to pass, or can even be long-term deals [this is houserule/homebrew stuff, however, to note] where passage is granted in exchange for some concession or favor.
Each Prisoner can serve as an ordeal, and while they are not limited to one particular 'task' many tend to do the same task again and again for all who wish to pass from the Spire into the Dreaming Earth.
Thus, each entry of this type, if I keep this up, will include an Ordeal section talking about how you can get out of there, and where you might be able to go. [End Sidebar]
The Ordeal:
Ordeal of the Hunt: Anant is not an imaginative fellow, in some ways. He's used this same test each time. First, he judges them. Usually harshly, but if he thinks that they are coming up to seriously harm the Anima Mundi, he might just refuse to let them take an Ordeal, or even kill them. More than one would-be Scelesti going to see the Old Man Aeon of the Abyss has been waylaid and made to provide fertilizer.
But those who aren't deemed too much of a threat are given a game. They strip, and he turns them into an animal. They must flee through the forest, as he and his spirit-animals hunt them. They are going for a capture, not a kill, though with Anant's skill at healing, as long as the hunted clings onto life, he can bring them back.
If they fail, he captures them, and uses his skill at Prime to make sure they are out of Mana, and his other skills to make sure they don't escape, for they have sworn to keep him company for one full day. This company is not all that onerous, for he is lonely for company, and has them tell him everything about themselves. Their homes, their lives, their loves, and it is through this that he has over time learned most modern languages, which he still thinks are nothing compared to either High Speech or his own native language.
They are then released after that day, though he hates to see them go, and flings insults as they leave.
Those who succeed in reaching the end, he returns their clothes and belongings to them (though he doesn't see the need) and bids them farewell. They arrive in a forested part of the Dreaming Earth.
Any animal can be chosen, but he is aware that Mages are clever, and has animals that fly and animals that run on the ground, and so there is no easy, tricky answer. He does not accept any animal that he did not know about when he was alive, or learn of during his time, which is to say that he will not make one a prehistoric animal, though perhaps there are animals within the myths of his people that he might be willing to make.
When a group journeys through, his rules do vary, but are usually that either at least one, or a majority of the people so transformed must make it through to let the group go on, but often times he is lonely enough that a cabal might have to leave behind any members that are caught or captured, unless they are willing to press the issue with force, and fight against him and his entire forest filled with now-hostile spirits.
None that has chosen that path has lived to tell the tale, and even if they won, if they killed him then the Garden would cease to be, which rather defeats the purpose of trying to go through it.
*******
A/N: So, this was just something that occurred to me. I mean, consider it an answer of sorts? I like M:tAw because of stuff like this, and I like it so much that I'm willing to spend hours of the morning doing a random homebrew idea.
Also, those damn English, ruining everything!
Introduction (For Those Not Aware): Just because we might have some virgins whose Astral cherry isn't popped, what is the Astral Realm? It is the realm of thoughts, from the personal Oneiros of each individual, to the Temenos of collective human unconscious, to the World Soul, the Anima Mundi, which has the awareness of the cosmos and the dreams of animals, and so on.
Mages, being the erstwhile masters of the universe, of course try to explore this. It is sealed off from the Temenos by the Omphalos, a Mage creation of unknown means, a great seal that a learned Mage can open to travel through, and yet also keeps out those who might otherwise trouble the Temenos and human minds.
Through it there are two paths, known as the Anthropic Redoubts, for these are the farthest signs of humanity in a place fundamentally opposed to it. The second and newest is the Swath, which represents mankind's pollution and destruction of the environment, and its impact.
The first, and oldest, is the Spire Perilous. If one believes in Atlantis, this is the Ocean Spire, the Celestial Ladder, and even if one doesn't believe that, it sure as heck is something interesting. It usually manifests as a tower, though sometimes it is a long trail, or a desert wasteland you must walk through, depending on the Mage and the circumstances, but always it is being slowly destroyed by the Typhonians, whose instinctual drive is to destroy this man-made intrusion upon the Anima Mundi.
Rather more interesting for Mages is the presence of the Gardens of Ancestors. There are many stories, but the most credible say that any mage that dies in the Anima Mundi finds their souls drawn to the Spire. This is not a simple task, since dying in the Astral does not kill you in real life, merely shocking your soul and exhausting you, but it can be done, and in many cultures, honored elder Mages would be voluntarily taken to the Spire to be ritually killed at the end of their long lives so that they might provide wisdom for future generations, stuck permanently in one of the Gardens.
As well, of course, hated enemies and Mages too dangerous to hold any other way, could be killed there and left to rot in prisons.
Either way, these ghost-like Astral beings cannot leave their Prison, but within it they possess all of the powers of their living selves.
Trapped.
This is one such Prisoner.
History: Anant lived a forthright life, or so what stories there are say. According to his own testimony, he named himself for his guardianship of a stream that seemed to be of some sacral importance in his tribe, in what is modern day Ireland, and seems to have been a Hallow of unusual properties.
When he reached old age, his wisdom and Mastery of Life and Spirit was thought so thorough that it was said that others would wish to see his wisdom, and though he lived longer than most humans, well over a hundred, his time came as it did for all men, and so his students took him to the Anima Mundi, where they ritually killed him.
And for a time, they consulted him. It was a tradition that all who took of the guardianship of this Hallow-stream with the strange properties would visit him for wisdom and guidance, though they found him diminished.
But then time passed on, and fewer and fewer came. And when some foolish English Mages messed with ley lines they did not understand and managed to destroy the stream and the Hallow by their arrogant bumbling, the trickle of students became a drip, and then fell away. Everything he ever knew changed, and the land that exists now is nothing like what he grew up with.
He has grown bitter, and his prison has grown strange. He is no monster, no mad mage to slaughter people or give into hate, and yet the rot of years has eaten on him.
Description: He is a somewhat pale man, short by modern standards, but somewhat substantial, with some strength still in his limbs, and a body that is neither withered nor bloated. He has long, white pair, that goes down to his chest, a tangle and a mess, and a broken face, with a nose that looked shattered a dozen times over, rhuemy eyes, and a smile that looked like rocky foothills.
More notably are the bits of his skin that seem to be bark, or the occasional peak of foliage that comes from him: he does not tell whether this is the effect of some ancient and forgotten Legacy, or the process of becoming as he was.
He usually wears no clothes, seeing no point to it, and besides that having possessed none when he was killed.
He is intensely lonely, and very bitter, given to rants and mood swings, and he has a voracious appetite for information about the outside world, but anything he learns, he might well complain about. The world changes, and he is left behind, though he has learned languages from his guests, especially those that fail his Ordeal.
Anant is an experienced Master of Life and Spirit, and possesses a number of other Arcana, including Prime 3 and Fate 2, and thus in theory he has a vast horde of knowledge of his culture, the secrets others have given him, and the Shadow Realm and the nature of Life in general. But he does not take apprentices, or at least, he has rejected those who think that their "Irish Blood" somehow makes them his heirs, and thus deserving of his wisdom.
For what does he care about modern Ireland, what does it have to do with his people except by location?
He lives a very lonely life, but his Masteries do allow him to create companions of sorts. He can create life itself, and does, filling his forest with animals, but he cannot give them the proper minds, having always struggled with that magic, and so he instead creates Spirits of the appropriate type, which then possess the bodies and serve as his only companions and company. He thus cares for them, despite knowing that they are not much, because they are the only things to keep him company.
They, for their part, are fierce and willing to fight with a vengeance because if their physical body is destroyed, Anant can always make another for them.
Garden: Anant's Garden is a vast forest, several miles around, filled with animals that prey on each other's bodies, playing a game that never ends, for Anant feeds them essence, and so none has to truly kill the other, and they are not allowed. A rabbit-spirit possessing a rabbit runs from a hawk-spirit holding a hawk, and when the rabbit body dies, the rabbit spirit runs off to get a new body, and continue the hunt and chase.
The trees of this forest are somewhat sickly, but old and majestic things, which fight their own battles in their thick roots for survival, for the soil is almost like sand. Anant's bitterness influences everything, and has caused the soil to provide surprisingly few nutrients. Over time, any animal body dies from the poor fare of the garden, even with the animal life they can consume, and so he must keep on creating in order to maintain the garden, which no longer sustains itself in any way.
The creatures tend to act like animals of their kind when not in his presence, but fiercer and more dangerous.
Near the center of the forest, a small hut can be found, which is where Anant sleeps, though as a ghost he needs only do so when he wishes to relieve the boredom of waking. Near the back of the forest is a iron pole, stuck in the ground. It is the end point for the Ordeal of The Hunt (see below)
[Sidebar: Ordeals? What about Andeals?] So, I'm again assuming that a lot of people might not have read Astral Realms. So what are Ordeals? Unlike with the Temenos, the Anima Mundi requires one to prove oneself to pass from one realm to the other, or from major realms to other major realms.
Thus, going from the Omphalos to the Spire might involve a game of riddles, or some complex trick, while going from the Spire to the Dreaming Earth also requires one to pass an Ordeal. Ordeals can in theory be resolved in a single roll, but if it's your first time, you really should play it out, they can be a lot of fun, and only if you're playing a Chronicle where you are going to be going back and forth across the Anima Mundi like it's your regular bus route does it make sense to mostly ignore them, or resolve them off screen.
The Ordeal can change each time, and some ordeals can happen in the physical world, thus allowing a knowledgeable Mage to bypass the hours long process to get to the Dreaming Earth, if they know that by the sacrifice of a Swallow, and the devouring of the animal whole, followed by a period of meditation, they can reach a specific point in the Dreaming Earth.
Other ordeals might merely be a toll one must pay to pass, or can even be long-term deals [this is houserule/homebrew stuff, however, to note] where passage is granted in exchange for some concession or favor.
Each Prisoner can serve as an ordeal, and while they are not limited to one particular 'task' many tend to do the same task again and again for all who wish to pass from the Spire into the Dreaming Earth.
Thus, each entry of this type, if I keep this up, will include an Ordeal section talking about how you can get out of there, and where you might be able to go. [End Sidebar]
The Ordeal:
Ordeal of the Hunt: Anant is not an imaginative fellow, in some ways. He's used this same test each time. First, he judges them. Usually harshly, but if he thinks that they are coming up to seriously harm the Anima Mundi, he might just refuse to let them take an Ordeal, or even kill them. More than one would-be Scelesti going to see the Old Man Aeon of the Abyss has been waylaid and made to provide fertilizer.
But those who aren't deemed too much of a threat are given a game. They strip, and he turns them into an animal. They must flee through the forest, as he and his spirit-animals hunt them. They are going for a capture, not a kill, though with Anant's skill at healing, as long as the hunted clings onto life, he can bring them back.
If they fail, he captures them, and uses his skill at Prime to make sure they are out of Mana, and his other skills to make sure they don't escape, for they have sworn to keep him company for one full day. This company is not all that onerous, for he is lonely for company, and has them tell him everything about themselves. Their homes, their lives, their loves, and it is through this that he has over time learned most modern languages, which he still thinks are nothing compared to either High Speech or his own native language.
They are then released after that day, though he hates to see them go, and flings insults as they leave.
Those who succeed in reaching the end, he returns their clothes and belongings to them (though he doesn't see the need) and bids them farewell. They arrive in a forested part of the Dreaming Earth.
Any animal can be chosen, but he is aware that Mages are clever, and has animals that fly and animals that run on the ground, and so there is no easy, tricky answer. He does not accept any animal that he did not know about when he was alive, or learn of during his time, which is to say that he will not make one a prehistoric animal, though perhaps there are animals within the myths of his people that he might be willing to make.
When a group journeys through, his rules do vary, but are usually that either at least one, or a majority of the people so transformed must make it through to let the group go on, but often times he is lonely enough that a cabal might have to leave behind any members that are caught or captured, unless they are willing to press the issue with force, and fight against him and his entire forest filled with now-hostile spirits.
None that has chosen that path has lived to tell the tale, and even if they won, if they killed him then the Garden would cease to be, which rather defeats the purpose of trying to go through it.
*******
A/N: So, this was just something that occurred to me. I mean, consider it an answer of sorts? I like M:tAw because of stuff like this, and I like it so much that I'm willing to spend hours of the morning doing a random homebrew idea.
Also, those damn English, ruining everything!
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
I had vague ideas for a few other such Prisoners, and I might do them if I have free time sometime in the next few weeks. I'm pretty sure Anant could be a little better written, and I know I spent a lot of time explaining things unrelated to him specifically.
I also didn't provide a character sheet, which I admit was me doing a more ES/Exalted thing, where his capabilities are described generally and then any ST or person who wishes to use him can probably get an idea of what he's like pretty easily. He has LIfe and Spirit for days, Prime at 3, and then probably a 2 or 3 other arcana at 1-2, and if it came to a fight he'd probably be relying on a bunch of spirit monsters and his mastery of Life to really do some damage, and he'd likely transform into an animal at some point.
I also didn't provide a character sheet, which I admit was me doing a more ES/Exalted thing, where his capabilities are described generally and then any ST or person who wishes to use him can probably get an idea of what he's like pretty easily. He has LIfe and Spirit for days, Prime at 3, and then probably a 2 or 3 other arcana at 1-2, and if it came to a fight he'd probably be relying on a bunch of spirit monsters and his mastery of Life to really do some damage, and he'd likely transform into an animal at some point.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If you object to the Traditions calling humans couch potatoes, why don't you object to the revolutionary vanguard party that is the Technocrats?
Their whole thing is the masses are too stupid, dumb and panicky to ever be trusted with universal truth.
*cracks up*
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- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
It might have shades of that now, but the original Technocratic Order was very much a humanitarian undertaking. They wanted to end the era of prehistory, where people got eaten by hydras and random god-tulpas forced the survivors to sacrifice their children to them, with the handful of Mages ruling like tinpot dictators because they had the ability to hold back the screaming hell of the Consensus Untamed.
Science was supposed to be the means for Sleepers to express their own will, a magic that anyone could use and anyone could improve upon.
Any chance of further explanation?
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
You mean the universal truth that (Majority of) Technocracy itself doesn't believe in? The same truth that Traditions have never shared with the masses when they were stronger back in the day? That Truth?
If you offered a chance to return back to that times majority of the Trads would take it. Even intro trad guy sounds regretful that chance is gone now.
And that is why I don't like them.
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Yes, you have just described the Order of Reason.
The Technocratic Union are not their predecessors.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Okay so they're not just a revolutionary vanguard party, but they're a revolutionary vanguard party which is actively misleading it's own members?
The murderous nature of the Tsarist regime does not make it worse than Stalinism.
Of course, what did you think all the brainwashing was for?
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Can you expand on that? I can't really see it.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
Can we not do this? Pretty please?
Ah yes, the "brainwashing." Let's talk about that "brainwashing." The vast majority of Technocrats are Conditioning 3. This amounts to "we like and respect the Technocracy, we are inclined to listen to our bosses in the Technocracy, and if our bosses in the Technocracy say someone is suspicious or hostile, we are more inclined to believe them." Or in other words, literally what any employee of any company ever or any citizen of any functional country ever is expected to do.
Most people are more heavily "brainwashed" IRL than this. Probably because unless you run some sort of anarchist commune, these basic tenets are necessary for civil society. The Technocracy is merely more effective at ensuring its agents follow the tenets of civil society than most.
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I guess I should have added a random smiley or something?
- Pronouns
- She/Her
According to what book?
Edit: found it.
Edit: You are seriously misrepresenting the actual nature of social conditioning 3. According to page 89 of my Guide to the Technocracy, conditioning level 1 creates a willingness to pursue their mission (IE the mission assigned to them by control) even if it requires ignoring food, sleep, and minor grievances or inconveniences. The example given is Brave New World sleep teaching.
Level two is described as submission, and allows the subjects controller to persuade them to undergo any non-mind technocratic procedure without resistance.
Level 3 conditioning allows the controlling subject to designate at will enemies and allies , and to cause the subject to obsessively monitor them for signs of disobedience.
The example it gives is Children being taught to spy on their parents in 1984.
I think you are significantly misrepresenting the meaning of conditioning 3. What it actually means is that Control can, when it wants, just tell all technocrats to believe that X is an enemy or Y is an ally. It doesn't matter how unreasonable it is or other relations they might have with that person. Their will is subverted to the point that their own judgement is suspended for that of their controller.
That's significantly more than the level of conditioning of an average Western citizen.
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So, 'a thing that is required of literally any high-power elite business.' Or 'someone who has gone through basic training in a military.' Or 'any mage in good standing with the Traditions' actually, given that a mage who can't put off minor inconveniences or show even 'mild' fanaticism is a shitty mage. The joke is that Conditioning is basically what anyone who joins a major organization with its own culture gets. It's Google's employee orientation, BigLaw's summer programs, the military's basic training-and as noted, the first 3 levels of Conditioning match up pretty well with exactly how people are taught in these sorts of things.
The other joke is that anyone reasonable would expect Traditions mages to be indoctrinated to a similar level, because they're a secretive resistance movement which needs loyalty (at least to the cause, if not to any individual), suspicion, and quite a bit of ability to endure hardship.
No, it's procedures lower than 3 dots. This means 1-dot sensory effects, for the most part. If your superior officer in the military orders you to get a physical checkup, are you 'brainwashed' if you do it willingly? The number of not-directly-beneficial one- or two-dot effects is fairly small, and sum up to invasive scanning. In fact, the only really 'compromising' one is Entropy 1 Ring of Truth because it specifically doesn't apply to Mind effects and you'd need Mind 3 anyways to read thoughts. So... it takes a great effort for someone who has been inducted into a secret extragovernmental black ops agency to lie to their superiors and it's a rare thing? Say it ain't so.
No it can't. That requires Conditioning 7-which you only get, as SOP, if you are a literal traitor who defected who might be a double-agent. Given that you need Conditioning 9 to tell someone to betray someone they like, Conditioning 6 to make someone treat someone who isn't a friend or lover as an enemy, and Conditioning 4 to treat someone with overt hostility, it's pretty clear that Conditioning 3 has pretty severe limits. In fact, only someone with Conditioning 10 explicitly has their will subverted "to the point that their own judgment is suspended for that of their controller."
If something is specifically mentioned, it implies the lower levels can't do that. So what do we know Conditioning 3 can't do?
- It doesn't make you automatically believe whatever Control wants as dogma.
- It can't turn you against a close friend or lover.
- It can't make you ostracize someone.
- It can't make you believe a group or individual is an enemy.
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??? I thought most traditions mages incorporate the techno paradrim nowadays post avatar storm.
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
What is the point of this discussion? What will it achieve? Like, I don't want to censor debate, but like what is the point of having a discussion that never ends, nor reaches any conclusion?
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Post avatar storm is the young mages whom has accepted status quo. Most elders were off Earth remember, without them younger ones get to play with tech but if more elders had survived they would have tried to slow down its spread.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
That's the Ascension war for you, baby.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You're really trying to soft peddle this. Normal members of the military are free (as much as anyone is free, cause this is a casual universe) to regard anyone they like as an enemy or a friend. They're induced to act in certain ways because the military is good at that, but their thoughts are their own. Social conditioning implies strongly that they aren't. Control can make you believe X is friend or Y is foe basically just because they want too.
That's not the same as some random western civilian who regularly disagrees with the government on a whole host of issues.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Because ultimately it'd be just as 'true.' The Technocracy is a single paradigm declaring the the entire world is going to follow their own beliefs and like it or else. They're not actually, in the way that we would define scientific, more scientific than any of the other paradigms. (Because reality is consensual).
They're more, "Sciency" and "Sci-Fi" but that's it. So you could in theory, as a "shard" replace them with any totalizing ideology that seeks to explain and control the entire world and force it to operate under a single point of reference.
Hell, speaking of a random idea: some dystopia where the Choristers-alikes replace the TU and every world religion other than Christianity is dying a slow death while the Theocracy of America is crusading in Jerusalem, using the Godly Power of Prayer and Faith, Blessed Steel, and their own Saints to do it.
Edit: Allow me to note that the TU thinks they're being scientific, just like this Chorister One World Religion thinks that theirs is the true faith and that's why they have the powers they do. No purple paradigm needed or whatnot.
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Legend of Ruina
Growing eyes on the inside
So what are your thoughts on Dark Eras 2? Personally I'm probably not backing it. The crossover everywhere doesn't appeal. While Rise of the Last Imperials and A Thousand Years of Night both seem ridiculously overly long. Trying to pack hundreds or thousands of years of history into one chapter is overly ambitious and likely to end up being more of a primer than a setting book.
- Pronouns
- They/Them