A spell to make sure your drugs never go bad and you always can find a legit dealer who won't shaft you.

Also, since you probably know: How generic is the Celestial Chorus? Because it's not fun if they aren't arguing about predestination and shanking each other with words about how to interpret the Trinity.

A spell to make sure your drugs never go bad and you always can find a legit dealer who won't shaft you.

Ooh, that'd be a Fate spell, right?
 
Also, since you probably know: How generic is the Celestial Chorus? Because it's not fun if they aren't arguing about predestination and shanking each other with words about how to interpret the Trinity.

The canon version makes it vague as to the level of infighting. They're actually more akin to a heretical syncretic monomyth cult than a true representative of religious magi in canon. If you want to use their canon version I would make them specifically just that, although they have a lot of people who are of various religions, and have them tend to have local 'cells' who are allies with local religious magi. Your Choristers in Iraq would probably have allies in the Islamic wizarding community, while Choristers in the South would probably have allies in the evangelicals, and they would both be allied with the Chorus even as they hate each other and want each other to die. So they would then do a lot of peacekeeping between magi with hostile worldviews even if they have vaguely similar paradigms.

Ooh, that'd be a Fate spell, right?

Fate, maybe Fate/Mind, maybe Fate/Mind/Space depending on what you're looking at doing.
 
The canon version makes it vague as to the level of infighting. They're actually more akin to a heretical syncretic monomyth cult than a true representative of religious magi in canon. If you want to use their canon version I would make them specifically just that, although they have a lot of people who are of various religions, and have them tend to have local 'cells' who are allies with local religious magi. Your Choristers in Iraq would probably have allies in the Islamic wizarding community, while Choristers in the South would probably have allies in the evangelicals, and they would both be allied with the Chorus even as they hate each other and want each other to die. So they would then do a lot of peacekeeping between magi with hostile worldviews even if they have vaguely similar paradigms.



Fate, maybe Fate/Mind, maybe Fate/Mind/Space depending on what you're looking at doing.

I'm not sure if it'd be all three. I think the idea is that you just happen to stumble into someone, but that them being someone who won't stiff you is all handled by fate, rather than any sort of mind manipulation. Like if you used magic to make yourself get what you want with a coin-flip. So, you're at a party, and you just let, "Fate guide you". Maybe?

*******

Huh, interesting. Though by necessity, there's some grit there as far as it goes. It's hard to put into words, precisely?
 
Fate would probably just let you wander the streets, and Fate guided intuition would let you make the turns to find yourself before a guy selling the hot stuff in an alley, and you just never really worry that he might be a cop in disguise.
 
I'm not sure if it'd be all three. I think the idea is that you just happen to stumble into someone, but that them being someone who won't stiff you is all handled by fate, rather than any sort of mind manipulation. Like if you used magic to make yourself get what you want with a coin-flip. So, you're at a party, and you just let, "Fate guide you". Maybe?

That would be the pure Fate version.

Fate/Mind would be 'I run into a guy who won't stiff me, and I know who he is and where he'll plan to be next after this sale.'

Fate/Mind/Space would be 'I want to have knowledge who all the honest drug dealers around me are and where they are.
 
The canon version makes it vague as to the level of infighting. They're actually more akin to a heretical syncretic monomyth cult than a true representative of religious magi in canon. If you want to use their canon version I would make them specifically just that, although they have a lot of people who are of various religions, and have them tend to have local 'cells' who are allies with local religious magi. Your Choristers in Iraq would probably have allies in the Islamic wizarding community, while Choristers in the South would probably have allies in the evangelicals, and they would both be allied with the Chorus even as they hate each other and want each other to die. So they would then do a lot of peacekeeping between magi with hostile worldviews even if they have vaguely similar paradigms.

And then you've got Plotinus. Plotinus - Wikipedia
 
But yeah, it seems like with a Choir there'd be a lot of difference between the Catholics and the non-Catholics. I mean, one of them has super-powered Saints, and the other doesn't. Or has to justify their powers without being one of those "evil" pope-worshipers.

Edit: One thing that annoys me is that my character from my nMage Quest, Miriam, is probably maybe textbook Chorister, and that's annoying when compared to the complex and weird road she has to try to justify/fit her faith into her new belief in magic in nMage.
 
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But yeah, it seems like with a Choir there'd be a lot of difference between the Catholics and the non-Catholics. I mean, one of them has super-powered Saints, and the other doesn't. Or has to justify their powers without being one of those "evil" pope-worshipers.
Take inspiration from folks like Ellen White, or Bringham Young, or Father Divine, maybe?


Fundies aren't exactly short of crazies who believe they have heard the word of god (or, in the case of Father Divine, that they are god)
 
So, here's something I was wondering - I'm not sure if it works in oMage metaphysics, but I figured it was worth asking about.

Could the modern Technocratic paradigm be self-expanding / self-developing, even without mages acting to push the boundaries? I mean, the general scientific consensus is that the world is (except on the quantum scale) logical and causal, with many behaviours and effects arising out of the intersection of underlying laws. Does that imply that those effects and behaviours can arise unexpectedly out of the interactions between established technocratic truths, to be discovered even by Sleeper scientists? Could it go even further, and allow Sleepers working under the technodigm to expand it with revolutionary / novel discoveries, by working under the principle "Knowledge is discovered by logic, hard work, and rigorous experimentation"?

If so, it adds another reason for the technocracy to care so much about maintaining paradigmatic supremacy - a thoughtless "science works I guess, but I mean, there's stuff it can't explain" is useless for putting the paradigm in a position to grow itself. Of course, it also makes working to change the Consensus even more important for the Traditions! Under this model the Technodigm isn't just oppressing mages, it's a malignant cancer that can grow and encompass more and more of the world, devouring any contradiction or crack where magic could hide. And once it reaches a critical mass of believers it will be beyond even the Technocracy to direct.
 
And once it reaches a critical mass of believers it will be beyond even the Technocracy to direct.
Which, in theory at least, was what the ancient founders of the Technocratic Union always wanted. Magic for all, which none - not even they - can take away.

It's just a pity that the final Technocratic paradigm is probably going to look more like End of Evangelion than the egalitarian Paradise those ancient wizards hoped to build.
 
Could it go even further, and allow Sleepers working under the technodigm to expand it with revolutionary / novel discoveries, by working under the principle "Knowledge is discovered by logic, hard work, and rigorous experimentation"?
That is how Nucleer bombs was discovered just so you know.
 
My friend is running oMage for the first time and called me for some assistance since I know most about WoD in our group. I told him to ignore the clusterfuck that was M20, directed him to the good parts of Revised and 2e, rebuild and restructure the Traditions to not be 90's caricatures and stereotypes, and butcher and assimilate the metaplot as needed. Standard stuff.

Unfortunately, my mastery of the mechanics has always been lacking. I can't give my group any solid advice on Devices and Enhancements. I have no idea on how create and use them beyond using what's written in the book, and thread consensus says that it's bad and I should find an alternative. @MJ12 Commando's Aberrant 2.0 came to mind, but I can't find it. I'm tempted to recommend @linkhyrule5's errata since its reasonable for our use.

Advice on where to go for more information, as well as a guideline on how to price Device and Enhancements effects (things like Extra Health Levels, Agg Soak, etc.) would be very much appreciated.
 
Unfortunately, my Enhancements write-up was still in development when school hit me with a two-by-four, so I didn't quite get it properly balanced. Feel free to use what's there (actually, I should make sure I actually put it up somewhere), but no guarantees for balance - it hasn't really been playtested.
 
Advice on where to go for more information, as well as a guideline on how to price Device and Enhancements effects (things like Extra Health Levels, Agg Soak, etc.) would be very much appreciated.

The general way Devices or Wonders are costed is something around 1 point per dot of Arete (which adds +5 quintessence storage to it), plus 1 point for any single effect on it.

Enhancements are off because they're mostly fine if you cost them as Devices and just take Echoes or similar flaws for 'genetic' flaws, but if you use the formal Enhancements background, it sucks.

The quick and dirty fix for Enhancements is this:
  • There is no such thing. Buy all Enhancements via Devices/Wonder.
  • However, each major inhuman trait a character possesses, e.g. significantly superhuman attributes, being able to poke a plasma gun out of your hand, etc. require either 1 permanent paradox point or 2 and a half points of flaws, round down. Stuff that's relatively subtle and internal, i.e. Do, ADEIs, a light level of physical optimization, is okay. You can take them in combination. E.g. if you have 5 inhuman traits (let's say heavy armor, superhuman regeneration, and all your physical attributes are blatantly superhuman), you need to take either 5 points of Paradox or 12.5 (round down to 12) points of flaws. Or you can take a combination and take 2 points of Paradox and 7 points of flaws, or 3 points of Paradox and 5 points of flaws, etc.
  • If you're a cyborg, your vulnerability to Life magic counts as a 3 point flaw. So you get your first impossible physical trait gratis. This is why ItX cyborgs tend to lean towards the overt and superhuman, they can get away with a bit more.
  • Some Devices, i.e exomuscle/exoskeleton/having your skeleton entirely replaced by machinery, provide inherent Paradox because of just how much enhancement you're packing on.
 
So, here's something I was wondering - I'm not sure if it works in oMage metaphysics, but I figured it was worth asking about.

Could the modern Technocratic paradigm be self-expanding / self-developing, even without mages acting to push the boundaries? I mean, the general scientific consensus is that the world is (except on the quantum scale) logical and causal, with many behaviours and effects arising out of the intersection of underlying laws. Does that imply that those effects and behaviours can arise unexpectedly out of the interactions between established technocratic truths, to be discovered even by Sleeper scientists? Could it go even further, and allow Sleepers working under the technodigm to expand it with revolutionary / novel discoveries, by working under the principle "Knowledge is discovered by logic, hard work, and rigorous experimentation"?
Also, this is how you have important scientists and other major figures be either Sleepers or people who Awakened independent of any later involvement with the Technocracy, helping to kill off the "all scientists & industrialists were secretly Dark Wizard Cabal-Buddies behind the scenes" bullshit.

As I mentioned, Darwin's voyage through the Galapagos totally serves as the catalyst for his Awakening, so that by the time the Progenitors make contact with him after he publishes his theories he's already a Mage with a Technocracy-friendly paradigm*. Meanwhile, the War of the Currents was basically a renegade Etherite trying to one-up the most Syndicate man to never Awaken, only to be brought down by his own rampant personal issues and have the TU swoop in to quarantine all his shit before earthquake generators and DIY death rays escaped into the Consensus.

Likewise, it's why you get random wingnuts being visited by "government agents" and told to stop building orgone collectors or talking about Quantum Ray Aggregation or whatever wacky shit they believe - because even if they're just Sleepers, their ideas can potentially seep into the Consensus and screw up the paradigm that the Technocracy has spent millennia nurturing, and any one of them could suddenly Awaken and bring their goofy gibberish to the Sons of Ether, so fuck them and fuck their theoretical Etherite pals, they're getting their shit slapped now.


* There should totally be a sort of lodge in the Progenitors built in his honor, that take what little free time they have to protect and foster examples of "natural" beauty, i.e. flora & fauna that formed in accordance with Technocratic principles or exemplify them particularly well.
 
Also, this is how you have important scientists and other major figures be either Sleepers or people who Awakened independent of any later involvement with the Technocracy, helping to kill off the "all scientists & industrialists were secretly Dark Wizard Cabal-Buddies behind the scenes" bullshit.

As I mentioned, Darwin's voyage through the Galapagos totally serves as the catalyst for his Awakening, so that by the time the Progenitors make contact with him after he publishes his theories he's already a Mage with a Technocracy-friendly paradigm*. Meanwhile, the War of the Currents was basically a renegade Etherite trying to one-up the most Syndicate man to never Awaken, only to be brought down by his own rampant personal issues and have the TU swoop in to quarantine all his shit before earthquake generators and DIY death rays escaped into the Consensus.

Likewise, it's why you get random wingnuts being visited by "government agents" and told to stop building orgone collectors or talking about Quantum Ray Aggregation or whatever wacky shit they believe - because even if they're just Sleepers, their ideas can potentially seep into the Consensus and screw up the paradigm that the Technocracy has spent millennia nurturing, and any one of them could suddenly Awaken and bring their goofy gibberish to the Sons of Ether, so fuck them and fuck their theoretical Etherite pals, they're getting their shit slapped now.


* There should totally be a sort of lodge in the Progenitors built in his honor, that take what little free time they have to protect and foster examples of "natural" beauty, i.e. flora & fauna that formed in accordance with Technocratic principles or exemplify them particularly well.

This makes his long and detailed study of earthworms hilarious.
 
Edit: And your edit manages to actually make the point I was talking about. If you say, "Oh, this part doesn't work and is kinda shit and doesn't make sense" the reaction shouldn't be, "Lol, the Traditions suck" it should be, "Hmm, let's think about this."

Because that's what this thread's reaction is to Technocracy problems/etc.

Part of the big reason for that is that the Technocracy needs less effort to fix to get it into a gameable state. See, the Traditions basic structure was set when oMage 1e came out in the early 90s, and they haven't really evolved since then. By contrast, the modern structure of the Technocracy comes from 1999, when Guide to the Technocracy came out. GttT wasn't being written in the same (possibly on drugs) mental state as oMage 1e.

And the other thing is that the Technocracy's core structure (five Conventions, allegedly on the same side but with actually quite major political and paradigmatic differences, and then the people put in these groups then form natural parties who in theory cooperate with other parties, but in practice often plot against them)... is solid enough that the nWoD games used the same model. The Technocracy model of 5 organisations that PCs can belong to, which feud but also work together, is the same model used by Requiem, Awakening, and so on. It's a model that you can hang a game off and that WW have reused repeatedly. The splats themselves are easy to explain to people in a way which provides plots; "Big Government, Big Business, Big Pharma, CYBORGS, and Area 51". It's also small enough scale that people can keep the inter-splat relationships in their head - "NWO is rivals with Syndicate and suspects the VE, Syndicate backs VE for corporate reasons and is making a play against NWO for leadership".

Yes, there's a lot wrong with the Technocracy at a game level, but the core structure of "you're part of this big morally ambiguous government conspiracy that spends as much time jockeying for power internally as it does actually furthering its goals" is a solid and gameable basis.

By contrast, the 9-splat model of the Traditions needs a lot more work to fix up. A bunch of the Traditions are just messes (at least in part because there were early WW writers who didn't want to make them too closely resemble real life groups for fear that people would cast real magic), and 9 interacting groups (or ten if you count the Hollow Ones) are way too numerous to model in your head.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when the people in this thread try to patch up and update the reference pools for Technocracy games, they can just go "Yeah, Void Engineer XCOM go go go" or "Let's do a GitS Section 9 game". By contrast, doing stuff with the Traditions means you're stuck with a lot of... dubious early 90s things (Dreamspeakers, Hollow Ones), and changing things requires a lot of effort because you have to go for more fundamental rewrites of things.

Not that this can't be done. Like, I certainly know that @Aleph and other people have said that one of their favourite characters in Panopticon Quest was Father Orsino, a Mexican Liberation Theology Chorister (who's really actually a Knight Templar). But it's much easier to just take a chunk of the Traditions and go "Yeah, so the Chorus in Mexico are largely Templar, heavily Catholic in their beliefs, and their paradigm emphasises reason as much as faith, which is why they use Hermetic-esque elements like how they summon angels".

To put it bluntly, the Nine Traditions hold back the Traditions, because they're kinda really artificial and "game-y" and ignore very interesting things like the heavy historic overlap that you should have between Hermeticism and Christianity (John Dee and Isaac Newton, anyone?).
 
I think you mean Matter here.
It's actually both. There's a low level Life spell to cause implant rejection.
To put it bluntly, the Nine Traditions hold back the Traditions, because they're kinda really artificial and "game-y" and ignore very interesting things like the heavy historic overlap that you should have between Hermeticism and Christianity (John Dee and Isaac Newton, anyone?).
This is why I tried to rework the traditions, which you can find upthread. However, I lost interest (as I do with many things) after getting into a fight with Heavy Arms over 'muh canon' over on the official forums. I might come back to it someday though.
 
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