grommile
nasty-minded old cynic
- Location
- NERV-Mercia
- Pronouns
- Traditional/Animate
The options are:
- die of dox
- die of death
- turn into an evil space ghost
White Wolf's World of Darkness
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't know about you, but I'm going to enjoy my time in E-Com thank you very much.
grommile
nasty-minded old cynic
- Location
- NERV-Mercia
- Pronouns
- Traditional/Animate
I was commenting on the long term. Life extension past a certain point gives you permadox.I don't know about you, but I'm going to enjoy my time in E-Com thank you very much.
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Paradox is a sign that The Technocratic Lie is afraid of you; embrace it as you flaunt the prison of stone they would trap your soul of light within!
run.taftani.exe
- Location
- America
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I figured I'd actually give context for my answers so they'd make more sense. I'm using my character for notanautomaton's technocracy game. These answers are some of the
"Not again." I sigh to myself. "Why do so many technocratic projects literally go up in flames?" I ask myself. "Seriously it's been happening way too much lately." I complain. "I have to add proper fire safety standards to the list." The list in question was a list I've been making for safety protocols technocratic facilities should adhere to to increase safety, efficiency, and productivity.
I try to take a stab at the cause of the fire. "What is it this time? Is it Tradition sabotage? Is it a lack of proper technocratic safety standards? Is this an attempt to cover up something they don't want me to see? Is it a rival research Amalgam who wants to put them back a few weeks? Is this the result of their research project getting out of hand?"
After taking a few seconds to ponder I decide to do something about my situation. "Alright, I should try to evacuate the building, It's what any sane person would do." But I'm not going to, some part of me has to know why this is happening. I resolve to quickly investigate the building instead of immediately evacuating like any sane man would.
I voice command my glasses to bring up a map of the building. I also ask for them to bring up whatever kind of sensory relay it can from any of the numerous smart electronics on this floor. It's worrisome how many of the smart devices can be connected to just through a bluetooth connection without requiring a password.
I direct myself to an office room and look for computers people left logged on when they evacuated. Luckily for me, people fleeing from fire rarely take the time to log off before they do so. "How careless." I smirk as I find a computer that looks like a project manager's left logged on. I look for the folders containing the project files they were working on.
I find them, but the folders are locked separately from the computer. His wallpaper is a family picture with him, his wife, and their son. "Let's try the names, birthdays, and anniversary." I mutter to myself. I pull up the calendar and then rapidly try a few combinations of names and dates until I hit upon the right one.
"Good thing he didn't have any other kids or a dog, I might have been locked out if I had to try any more times." I don't have time to go over all of the files while the building burns around me. "I'll have to upload these to the investigation cloud and look over them later."
"Now just to find a safe way out of here." I consult the sensory relay from the smart devices I looked at earlier. "From the data they've sent me I can make a solid guess about where the fire is. If I cross reference that with the building plans then I can run some simulations about where the fire will spread to and how fast. If I overlay that simulation on the map of the building and highlight the evacuation stairwell and the fire extinguishers I should be able to make a safe trip to the restrooms where I can douse my clothes in water to provide heat and fire resistance."
I grab a bag, throw it over my back and place a fire extinguisher in it and carry another one in my hands. "I'll just add any other ones I pass by to the bag and switch out whenever one empties." I decide. I safely make it to the restroom, soak my clothes in the sink, and use my wet tie as a filter for the smoke. Then using the fire extinguisher in my hands, and being sure to switch out when it runs low, I make my way out.
When out I review the voice memos for the investigation and make some notes about the state of their project. This fire is going in my report, whoever did this is going to learn why you don't mess with a Syndicate Auditor. Disbursements will likely cut the budget unless it turns out that the fire was an act of sabotage. I'll find who started the fire, and there will be consequences.
I try to take a stab at the cause of the fire. "What is it this time? Is it Tradition sabotage? Is it a lack of proper technocratic safety standards? Is this an attempt to cover up something they don't want me to see? Is it a rival research Amalgam who wants to put them back a few weeks? Is this the result of their research project getting out of hand?"
After taking a few seconds to ponder I decide to do something about my situation. "Alright, I should try to evacuate the building, It's what any sane person would do." But I'm not going to, some part of me has to know why this is happening. I resolve to quickly investigate the building instead of immediately evacuating like any sane man would.
I voice command my glasses to bring up a map of the building. I also ask for them to bring up whatever kind of sensory relay it can from any of the numerous smart electronics on this floor. It's worrisome how many of the smart devices can be connected to just through a bluetooth connection without requiring a password.
I direct myself to an office room and look for computers people left logged on when they evacuated. Luckily for me, people fleeing from fire rarely take the time to log off before they do so. "How careless." I smirk as I find a computer that looks like a project manager's left logged on. I look for the folders containing the project files they were working on.
I find them, but the folders are locked separately from the computer. His wallpaper is a family picture with him, his wife, and their son. "Let's try the names, birthdays, and anniversary." I mutter to myself. I pull up the calendar and then rapidly try a few combinations of names and dates until I hit upon the right one.
"Good thing he didn't have any other kids or a dog, I might have been locked out if I had to try any more times." I don't have time to go over all of the files while the building burns around me. "I'll have to upload these to the investigation cloud and look over them later."
"Now just to find a safe way out of here." I consult the sensory relay from the smart devices I looked at earlier. "From the data they've sent me I can make a solid guess about where the fire is. If I cross reference that with the building plans then I can run some simulations about where the fire will spread to and how fast. If I overlay that simulation on the map of the building and highlight the evacuation stairwell and the fire extinguishers I should be able to make a safe trip to the restrooms where I can douse my clothes in water to provide heat and fire resistance."
I grab a bag, throw it over my back and place a fire extinguisher in it and carry another one in my hands. "I'll just add any other ones I pass by to the bag and switch out whenever one empties." I decide. I safely make it to the restroom, soak my clothes in the sink, and use my wet tie as a filter for the smoke. Then using the fire extinguisher in my hands, and being sure to switch out when it runs low, I make my way out.
When out I review the voice memos for the investigation and make some notes about the state of their project. This fire is going in my report, whoever did this is going to learn why you don't mess with a Syndicate Auditor. Disbursements will likely cut the budget unless it turns out that the fire was an act of sabotage. I'll find who started the fire, and there will be consequences.
What in the world is the SWAT doing breaking into a technocrat's room? I thought our secret conspiracy would stop such things from happening. No, this has got to be a present from some NuWu bigwig on some planning committee who didn't like my assessment some project he signed off on.
I reach under my pillow for my badge. It's one of those fancy NWO badges that becomes whatever you need it to be in a pinch. Technically it's not my badge. It's actually on loan from requisitions, but it's so useful I just re-requisition it most missions.
Reaching under my pillow I find my badge missing. I mentally face palm as I realize I left it in the car so I wouldn't forget it for missions. In it's place is some kind of experimental Void Engineer teleportation belt. Why do they give such crazy things to me to field test? This thing can't possibly be ready to be used out of a lab.
If the SWAT team is really something sent by an unhappy NuWu overseer, then I probably don't want to be caught. I can only imagine what he drummed up to get the SWAT on my case. Those NuWu overseer types always get angry when some project the Shared Governance Council (read: NuWu Rubber Stamp Board) adds to the timetable gets it's budget cut for being unsafe, unprofitable, or simply not practical.
I decide to risk the teleportation belt. And it IS a risk:
I quickly do mental math and plug in some numbers I hope are right. The plan is to jump behind them so that I can grab my smart glasses and other stuff off of my desk. That is not what happens. I end up above and slightly behind and to the side of them.
I try and hit them with a sweeping kick as I fall. It sort of works, but leaves me lying in an awkward position behind them. I quickly activate a hidden feature on my phone that amplifies and focuses the normal sounds of the phone into a sonic weapon.
The sonic weapon also only sort of works, which gives me enough time to pull in a new number into the belt. This one is pure guesswork, no time for even quick math. I jump again and end up slamming into my desk. While the SWAT are still disoriented I grab my smart glasses, smart watch, keys, phone, and gun. Then I cross my fingers and try for one more jump. This time I plan to place myself outside and near my car. Some quick mental math, I plug in numbers and hope I got the height correct.
I didn't get the hight correct, of course. I had to grab a tree near my car and jump down. I roll the landing to lessen the blow of the landing. "I'm gonna need to regroup at a safe house so that I can steal my laptop back aren't I." I lament. I unlock my car, get in, realize I don't have my shoes and haven't had a shower this morning, and curse the NuWu for being too sensitive. "A safe house with a shower, and a change of clothes. I'll slip into the SWAT facility with a fake uniform and my fake badge, and try to take my laptop back and anything else that could be incriminating." I resolve. "I'm going to track down whoever is responsible and make sure this comes to light." I proclaim. "But first, I'm going to get a shower and a bite to eat." I concede.
I reach under my pillow for my badge. It's one of those fancy NWO badges that becomes whatever you need it to be in a pinch. Technically it's not my badge. It's actually on loan from requisitions, but it's so useful I just re-requisition it most missions.
Reaching under my pillow I find my badge missing. I mentally face palm as I realize I left it in the car so I wouldn't forget it for missions. In it's place is some kind of experimental Void Engineer teleportation belt. Why do they give such crazy things to me to field test? This thing can't possibly be ready to be used out of a lab.
If the SWAT team is really something sent by an unhappy NuWu overseer, then I probably don't want to be caught. I can only imagine what he drummed up to get the SWAT on my case. Those NuWu overseer types always get angry when some project the Shared Governance Council (read: NuWu Rubber Stamp Board) adds to the timetable gets it's budget cut for being unsafe, unprofitable, or simply not practical.
I decide to risk the teleportation belt. And it IS a risk:
- The belt was meant to be worn around the waist and I'm using it by hand.
- The belt was meant to have precise coordinates dialed into the belt buckle control system and I'm plotting my jump through some fast calculations in my head.
- This thing has mostly been used in environments far away from the Earth (Such as other dimensions and in space) and in Laboratory settings and I'm using it in a cramped apartment flat. (No I can't afford a penthouse suite just because I'm a Syndic. I'm an Assessor, not some Financier fat cat. I came from the FBI's white collar division and though I'm payed more now for being a private Auditor, It's not that much more than I made before.)
I quickly do mental math and plug in some numbers I hope are right. The plan is to jump behind them so that I can grab my smart glasses and other stuff off of my desk. That is not what happens. I end up above and slightly behind and to the side of them.
I try and hit them with a sweeping kick as I fall. It sort of works, but leaves me lying in an awkward position behind them. I quickly activate a hidden feature on my phone that amplifies and focuses the normal sounds of the phone into a sonic weapon.
The sonic weapon also only sort of works, which gives me enough time to pull in a new number into the belt. This one is pure guesswork, no time for even quick math. I jump again and end up slamming into my desk. While the SWAT are still disoriented I grab my smart glasses, smart watch, keys, phone, and gun. Then I cross my fingers and try for one more jump. This time I plan to place myself outside and near my car. Some quick mental math, I plug in numbers and hope I got the height correct.
I didn't get the hight correct, of course. I had to grab a tree near my car and jump down. I roll the landing to lessen the blow of the landing. "I'm gonna need to regroup at a safe house so that I can steal my laptop back aren't I." I lament. I unlock my car, get in, realize I don't have my shoes and haven't had a shower this morning, and curse the NuWu for being too sensitive. "A safe house with a shower, and a change of clothes. I'll slip into the SWAT facility with a fake uniform and my fake badge, and try to take my laptop back and anything else that could be incriminating." I resolve. "I'm going to track down whoever is responsible and make sure this comes to light." I proclaim. "But first, I'm going to get a shower and a bite to eat." I concede.
I created new forms of paperwork. Wait where are you going! Paperwork can be cool too! I made an improved requisition form, a new Assessment checklist, and a new form to give feedback on devices you've requisitioned. These forms are easier to use, provide more information, are faster to fill out, actually can catch people on discrepancies in their answers since their guards are down, and make the Technocracy safer. These new forms will be named in my honor of course. They may not be considered a "Wonder" or "a work of finest artifice" by some, but they'll prove their worth over time. Then you'll probably start taking them for granted. But isn't taking something for granted the highest form of flattery? It means that it is so easy, and you trust it so much, that you don't even stop to think about it when you use it.
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Vindictus
XENO
- Location
- Texas
Only half?
Space makes it hard to die of paradox. Biomechanical Strogg-like horrors? Now those space makes it very easy for you to die to.
Here is your standard issue Void Engineer 3D-printed rifle and your standard issue Void Engineer combat space suit. Sure, the rifle is heavy as hell, being basically a semi-auto .50 caliber carbine you fire from the shoulder, and it's going to bruise, but it'll take down a basic Autopolitan and most light Transhumans. Your combat space suit is armored just enough that if a plasma beam misses you, you will probably not die of fourth-degree burns or radiation poisoning. It won't stop a direct hit from anything Threat Null uses.
No, you don't get a powered armored suit and a plasma shotgun like Herder over there, that's because he's an officer and a veteran. If you are lucky, you might be worth keeping alive. You are assigned to the VETT Tannenberg. Yes, they're named for the bloodiest battles in various wars. Yes, this is probably bad karma. Good luck. If you see a dragon, call it in and open fire at it.
What? No, that's not because you might kill it with one of those rifles. That's because if you run, you're just going to die tired.
- Location
- Mausheim, USA
Am i one of the dead?
Generalissimo
Generalissimo of SufficientVelocity
- Location
- Tropico, Tropico
Intentions easily go awry.
Vindictus
XENO
- Location
- Texas
We're all dead, Brother.
Some of us are just taking longer than others.
Jon Chung
=][=
The best paradigm is the paradigm that lets you have always never been there so you can engage in preemptive counterattacks!
If I can't do that, what kind of motherfucking sorcerer am I?
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Generalissimo
Generalissimo of SufficientVelocity
- Location
- Tropico, Tropico
My favorite reveal is everyone being loosely aware of Technocracy all without realizing they're supernatural.
Plenty of people for example dealing with Syndicate or New World Order mistakenly believe them sleeper organization.
What if that applied to EVERYONE?
Better still by lacking information or details the sleepers assume worst. . .
. . . based just knowing of excesses that can still be constructed as mundane.
Progenitors are perceived as rouge scientists experimenting on children.
Syndicate considered shadowy rogue criminal economists manipulating economies and flirting with organized crime.
New World Order proving all of those paranoid New World Order conspiracy nuts absolutely right.
Nobody thinking Mages but vast international conspiracy of criminals and terrorists.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'm going to start working on the Seer Effortpost. It might take a long time to finish, though.
But it will come, eventually!
...that's what he said.
But it will come, eventually!
...that's what he said.
Jemnite
CVN-69 Fella
- Location
- 清源书院
1. My SWAT TEAM NAKAMA from the other question appear suddenly, sensing my distress through the BONDS OF OUR FRIENDSHIP. They come equipped with skydiving gear, and we all SAFELY FLOAT AWAY TO SAFETY because we are FRIENDS and have the POWER OF FRIENDSHIP which protect us.
2. A locket necklace with a PICTURE OF MY CHILDHOOD STRUGGLES within. After having a brutal fistfight with one of the SWAT team members, we segue into a THIRTY MINUTE FLASHBACK where I related to the SWAT TEAM MEMBERS with my HARSH UPBRINGING AND EXPERIENCES, after which they each shed a tear and realize that WE SHOULDN'T BE FIGHTING because we are actually JAPANESE BEST FRIENDS
3. It is a picture of ME AND MY BEST FRIENDS which solidifies our FRIENDSHIP and carries the POWER OF OUR DETERMINATION FOREVER. It is so moving that it is adapted into a movie and a animation movie and a entire franchise despite being a singular NONMOVING PHOTOGRAPH. All who witness it are SO MOVED THEY BECOME MY JAPANESE BEST FRIEND TOO
no what makes you think that?
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Which WoD?
The Laurent Essay: The Throne At The Top of The World - Part 1
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The Throne At The Top of the World, Part 1 (Intro, Not Nega, Hegemon, Panopticon)
So, this is part of my continued evaluation of the Seers, why I like them, how I could see using them and/or modifying them in a relatively minimal way that doesn't involve changing the entire setting, but still makes sure that what they're good at is focused on. So, I've talked a little about why I like them as villains, but what else should they be? What kinds of themes need to be addressed?
Like every other Order, the Seers of the Throne say a lot of things about faith and metaphysical belief. The Seers' faith is, if anything, the most rational and believable of all the things that the Orders can go after. The Exarchs definitely exist, and other than in a custom game where you make it a lie for the purpose of fooling with people (since of course, nMage is a game that can be played with), that puts them a step above the Hieromagus (GOTV), who might or might not exist, Atlantis, which might or might not have been in the fashion that people think it was, etc, etc. Even the belief that magic is a living thing, while it has plenty of evidence, isn't something that is as real and there as the dream they send you, ordering you to do great evils in their name.
As well, there is the theme that the world is made to be broken. The Exarchs are the Gods of this world, and that means that, in theory, everything bad about it is their responsibility. There are entities strong enough to oppose them, and they do not have ultimate power, but they made a world where certain things exist. The Exarchs are a justification, an excuse not to try to make things better, and I suspect more than a few true believers in one or other worldly ideal has managed to fit into the Seers by framing it as the will of the Exarchs. The rise of imperialist Empires is a symbolic representation, some Hegemons argued, of the nature of the Exarchs and man, and just like in that case, the superior was rightfully dominating the inferior. Communists, anarchists, racists, sexists, radicals and anti-radicals of all types can and probably have claimed that this or that aspect of history or the world is the will of the Exarchs.
Surely, as powerful as the Exarchs are, if they wanted to, they could make a particular group inferior, or set up the world so that certain things worked and didn't. Wouldn't it be the greatest trick the Exarchs ever pulled if they created a world where cooperation and trust were losing strategies? Or a world where suspicion and doubt bred like bluebottle flies? This world is theirs, and so, whether they believe in it or not, whether they idealize the Lie as a great creation of the Exarchs, testament to their power over the universe, or dismiss it as unimportant compared to the Supernal Will of such beings, Seers are at once the masters and the slaves of the Lie.
Even when they pose as revolutionaries, it is just that, a pose.
Thus, they're in one sense The Man, but not in the same way as the Technocracy was meant to be. They're the people for whom the status is quo. For whom victory is nigh. For whom it has been nigh for thousands of years. And they are rooted in the world.
Unlike the Orders, which can be traced very far back (I'm taking 2e lore as better than 'all the way back to Atlantis' stuff), the very oldest of the Great Ministries still can't have said that they predated Jesus Christ. And some are only a few centuries old.
They are temporal entities. They live in the world of the lie, and while all of them aspire to power, and some to Archmastery, that is part of what they are.
Why The Greater Ministries Aren't Nega-Verse Orders
One of the greatest dangers of portraying the Seers is that if you squint and don't think about it, some of the four Great Ministires can seem like the Orders. For instance, the Hegemonic Ministry often is said to act through governments, so is it a bad guy Silver Ladder? The Praetorians believe in conflict, but as violence rather than upward struggle, so are they just evil Arrow's? Panopticon consists partially of spies, like the Guardians, so…
The answer is no. For one, until modern times, while each worked together, each had separate cabals (known as Pylons). While one-order cabals exist among the Diamond, they're less common than one Ministry Pylons among the Seers, and so each of the Ministries, before they started to form Pylons with each other, had to have at least some self-sufficiency. The lines of organization and power mean that there are soldiers in all four great Ministries, that there are spies in all of them, etc, etc, because each often has to stand on its own, pursuing its own schemes, often with no ability to trust another group of Seers with anything so important as their security.
Meanwhile, while there is overlap in the Diamond Orders (The Mysterium has spy-adventurers, the Silver Ladder can be surprisingly covert, the Arrows understand that there is more strength than just the physical), each also to some extent trusts that they'll be covered. They trust that when it comes time for a fight, their Arrow cabalmate has their back. That their Silver Ladder cabalmate knows the Lex Magica well enough to lawyer their way out of problems, etc, etc.
So each Ministry should be written and described in a way that, while they are all servants and slaves of the Exarchs, makes it clear that they could survive as their own organization, should (as some wish to do to the Hegemons) the balance of power change.
So, part of what should be focused on is building up design space that doesn't focus merely on the parallels between certain organizations, unless one is trying to write a spy thriller version of the Seer-Diamond conflict. In which case, sure, give a bit of mirroring to it.
Hegemonic Ministry
Servant of Unity, whose number is one, they have been around since the 1400s. Theirs is the will that drives governments into absolute states. They take credit for the development of the modern nation states (don't believe them) and for the UN, Nato...it's hard to find something about modern government that they don't take credit for, often with very little in the way of proof. They are, as presented, a decaying organization. Governments are too large for them to easily control, and as time waxes, so too does the power of commerce and industry to decide the fates of nations. A Hegemon does not control a corporation, or at least the old-style ones don't, but this desire for Unity, I think, can be twisted in many directions, and I think that there might be at least a few different ways one could be a Hegemon. I'm going to list three/four different sub-factions I think you could use, in addition (read the Seer book, it's pretty great) to the basic/'normal' ideology of a Hegemon. These are, it must be understood, methods and ways to do things, ways of thinking about the basics.
First, there are those who believed that Imperialism showed the way. They wish to try to find a way to return to (and at the time they held great power) the days of a few (not one, but a few) colonial powers, each of which, according to some Seers, would represent symbolically the might of the Exarchs if properly controlled, and which would oppress and undo all of the wrongs of the world (to their eyes) and return it to a state in which the Exarchs Will Is Law. They seek alliances with anyone and everyone, for their star is fallen, but Imperialists, with their roots into the deep states of a surprising number of countries, are still a force to be reckoned with.
Second, Nationalists. We are not speaking here of individual nations, though it is true that some are legitimately trying to redeem their nations by seeking power. There are odd sorts everywhere. But these are people who cheer for every splitting off of power. They want every ethnicity in the world to create their own enclaves, to fight and struggle, and some of them have quite a lot of truck with some more Darwinian Praetorians who feel that the will of the Exarch (or at least the 'winner') might be revealed in these large scale upheavals. The world divided into a thousand cells, and each united by an ideology as strong as steel.
Third, Unitarians. They are the people who believe in One World Government or (in some cases: see the sub-faction) one uniting ideology and system. But this One Government would not be one that would allow Sleepers to Awaken. It would, in the dreams of these Seer radicals who are often controversial even among their own, serve as a direct conduit from the top to the middle. Perhaps the Hegemonic Minister would be the absolute Dictator of the world, head of UN or some more powerful body, and thus every action in the world would be guided by Unity. Some obviously think that this would also be best for mankind, for in a world such as this, there would be only small, controlled, planned wars. In a world like this all faiths would be one lie. In a world like this, the boot on the face of the world would not be spiked. Others, obviously, have far more vicious and dystopian ideals. Unfortunately for them, the amount of power and influence it would take to achieve this is astronomical, and so some view them as mere cranks, and considering that some of their attempts to centralize the world have recently started failing, their claim to be the last, best hope for a retrenchment of power...strikes some as sketchy at best.
As a sub-faction of the above, there are those who believe that ideological reunification is best. These people, who study all of the doctrines of the world for hints of the Exarch's design want the world to be all Capitalist. Or all Communist. Or all...whatever their studies and search for hidden Truths (that they then destroy/hide/interpret as Exarchial) says is more wanted by the Exarchs. When all people follow the same religion (and here they do muscle in on Pasternoster territory, but then, again, each Ministry has arms in each thing) and believe in the same doctrines, then what does it matter that there is a national border, that there is not one lord, because there is: The Exarchs and their chosen ideals.
They tend to try to control from above, though in the last century they have been doing more and more and more work from below, backing revolutionaries on the way to dictatorship, supporting gang-lords that usurp the local government or even get patsies elected, and all while doing so, some Hegemons claim, betraying or ruining that which makes theirs a Great Ministry, their focus. And yet, as the power struggles grow, as the arguments fester, it seems as if there is no solution that can unite (eh, eh) the Ministry.
So, to try to wrap up the Hegemonic Ministry, they've faded for a while, but there is still the chance that they could come back, and part of what they've been trying is new things (the Unitarians) as well as attempting to stop outsourcing functions. Mammon, Panopticon (which eats into the security state that they might well think should be run by One Mind), [Tech], Paternoster, many are sure that relying on these and other Ministries has strayed from the true way, and thus they wish to return to the true faith in one technique and one Mind and One World, united against Awakening, but divided against each other, unable to truly seek 'Truth' that they do not deserve, never deserved, and never will deserve.
Panopticon
The eye sees all, from above and below. EarthScorpion's idea of the preacher Panopticon, making people paranoid about the view of God, about being seen by God and thus having their sins be known, is a perfect entryway. They wish to create a world where people think at all times about other people and their gaze.
But more than that, the Eye they worship, or so they think, is already like that. They're paranoid and others should be paranoid as well. People should feel naked at every moment, and yet, plenty of them feel that way. Plenty of them understand that they're on watch, that their faith is one that also might make them guilty as well.
Yet, they have to grow comfortable with it. The 'Tree of Eyes' is a doctrine that states that each person must spy on one superior and one inferior. That means that there is no such thing as privacy, and that they shouldn't want privacy. They're suppressing, often enough, the desire for peace and quiet, and their ideology is at once tempting (the religious angle, the angle of wanting to know) and yet, to those not sold on it, repulsive.
Even two centuries ago, they would have had very little traction, but the tides of history seem to be turning towards them. Sousveillance has been on the rise, cellphones revealing the crimes of cops that might have once lied about it, the weak showing the world the truth, and yet, to the dismay of some Panopticon members, people often shrug it away.
Some members want to empower Sousveillance, want the government and all people in power to be terrified of doing wrong, terrified of thinking wrong. They think that this is the perfect way to compliment other Ministries, and that the fear from below is the best way to control the powerful. Because as it stands, there is not enough fear in the system: create consequences, and then all will be terrified into line. These members believe that while the security state is expanding, the power for mere Sleepers to actually see is limited. An oppressive government records ten thousand conversations, but has only the man hours to to look over a small fraction of them. There is a limit to what the government, small as it is even in the largest state as a percentage of the population, can do. They believe that this is the best way to replace the Hegemons, who do not realize that the world has changed. One of the Lesser Ministries can do far better in a world where the reach of the state into the brain of every man is not so absolute.
Others, on the other hand, say that just you wait: they believe that the state still has legs when it comes to monitoring people. This is a matter of degrees (no good member of the Panopticon discards two of the three Gazes), but they try to focus on the top. Like the Hegemons that brought them in (and that they are now supplanting), they are most likely to work at the top than the bottom.
And finally, there are those that think that culture itself, the mass that is vague and all around them, can provide the best way to make others feel watched. They manipulate media to try to encourage people to judge themselves harshly. They understand that every doubt can be magnified in the right eyes, that every flaw can become large. Psychologists, advertisers, false friends, they think that it is best that man does not reach too far, and this fear of themselves, of their own judgment, is the best way to manage them: and after all, if this fear keeps them from sin, some argue, than it is not only useful, but it is just.
The Ministry is on the rise, and yet there are troubling signs on the horizon. It has existed as a real power for just over a century, and yet even now it does feel other Ministries nipping at its heels. Looking to take some of its functions, or question the way it works. But for the moment, unlike the Hegemonic Ministry, they seem to be doing well, and their diversity of method but relative unity of mindset has worked rather well in providing diversity. The gangland killer might find a place in them instead of the Praetorian if he trades in secrets and knows where the bodies are buried. Politicians, doctors, philosophers...the Panopticon has room for everyone.
Because it wants to watch everyone.
*******
A/N: Alright, so, this is part one of the rough draft, unedited effortpost. I have to go to work, so I decided to just divide it into parts because I want likes. I mean, because I want to show that I'm doing stuff and things.
All of this could definitely be expanded with specific examples, but I wanted to try to work in some factions, but didn't want to give too many specifics yet. I might do that later. If you like it or want to build off of it (like doing an example Pylon of an Example Faction or whatnot) then feel free.
...also, I am going to shoot for threadmark or something because this is thousands of words long.
How did I write this much in an hour while being distracted?
So, this is part of my continued evaluation of the Seers, why I like them, how I could see using them and/or modifying them in a relatively minimal way that doesn't involve changing the entire setting, but still makes sure that what they're good at is focused on. So, I've talked a little about why I like them as villains, but what else should they be? What kinds of themes need to be addressed?
Like every other Order, the Seers of the Throne say a lot of things about faith and metaphysical belief. The Seers' faith is, if anything, the most rational and believable of all the things that the Orders can go after. The Exarchs definitely exist, and other than in a custom game where you make it a lie for the purpose of fooling with people (since of course, nMage is a game that can be played with), that puts them a step above the Hieromagus (GOTV), who might or might not exist, Atlantis, which might or might not have been in the fashion that people think it was, etc, etc. Even the belief that magic is a living thing, while it has plenty of evidence, isn't something that is as real and there as the dream they send you, ordering you to do great evils in their name.
As well, there is the theme that the world is made to be broken. The Exarchs are the Gods of this world, and that means that, in theory, everything bad about it is their responsibility. There are entities strong enough to oppose them, and they do not have ultimate power, but they made a world where certain things exist. The Exarchs are a justification, an excuse not to try to make things better, and I suspect more than a few true believers in one or other worldly ideal has managed to fit into the Seers by framing it as the will of the Exarchs. The rise of imperialist Empires is a symbolic representation, some Hegemons argued, of the nature of the Exarchs and man, and just like in that case, the superior was rightfully dominating the inferior. Communists, anarchists, racists, sexists, radicals and anti-radicals of all types can and probably have claimed that this or that aspect of history or the world is the will of the Exarchs.
Surely, as powerful as the Exarchs are, if they wanted to, they could make a particular group inferior, or set up the world so that certain things worked and didn't. Wouldn't it be the greatest trick the Exarchs ever pulled if they created a world where cooperation and trust were losing strategies? Or a world where suspicion and doubt bred like bluebottle flies? This world is theirs, and so, whether they believe in it or not, whether they idealize the Lie as a great creation of the Exarchs, testament to their power over the universe, or dismiss it as unimportant compared to the Supernal Will of such beings, Seers are at once the masters and the slaves of the Lie.
Even when they pose as revolutionaries, it is just that, a pose.
Thus, they're in one sense The Man, but not in the same way as the Technocracy was meant to be. They're the people for whom the status is quo. For whom victory is nigh. For whom it has been nigh for thousands of years. And they are rooted in the world.
Unlike the Orders, which can be traced very far back (I'm taking 2e lore as better than 'all the way back to Atlantis' stuff), the very oldest of the Great Ministries still can't have said that they predated Jesus Christ. And some are only a few centuries old.
They are temporal entities. They live in the world of the lie, and while all of them aspire to power, and some to Archmastery, that is part of what they are.
Why The Greater Ministries Aren't Nega-Verse Orders
One of the greatest dangers of portraying the Seers is that if you squint and don't think about it, some of the four Great Ministires can seem like the Orders. For instance, the Hegemonic Ministry often is said to act through governments, so is it a bad guy Silver Ladder? The Praetorians believe in conflict, but as violence rather than upward struggle, so are they just evil Arrow's? Panopticon consists partially of spies, like the Guardians, so…
The answer is no. For one, until modern times, while each worked together, each had separate cabals (known as Pylons). While one-order cabals exist among the Diamond, they're less common than one Ministry Pylons among the Seers, and so each of the Ministries, before they started to form Pylons with each other, had to have at least some self-sufficiency. The lines of organization and power mean that there are soldiers in all four great Ministries, that there are spies in all of them, etc, etc, because each often has to stand on its own, pursuing its own schemes, often with no ability to trust another group of Seers with anything so important as their security.
Meanwhile, while there is overlap in the Diamond Orders (The Mysterium has spy-adventurers, the Silver Ladder can be surprisingly covert, the Arrows understand that there is more strength than just the physical), each also to some extent trusts that they'll be covered. They trust that when it comes time for a fight, their Arrow cabalmate has their back. That their Silver Ladder cabalmate knows the Lex Magica well enough to lawyer their way out of problems, etc, etc.
So each Ministry should be written and described in a way that, while they are all servants and slaves of the Exarchs, makes it clear that they could survive as their own organization, should (as some wish to do to the Hegemons) the balance of power change.
So, part of what should be focused on is building up design space that doesn't focus merely on the parallels between certain organizations, unless one is trying to write a spy thriller version of the Seer-Diamond conflict. In which case, sure, give a bit of mirroring to it.
Hegemonic Ministry
Servant of Unity, whose number is one, they have been around since the 1400s. Theirs is the will that drives governments into absolute states. They take credit for the development of the modern nation states (don't believe them) and for the UN, Nato...it's hard to find something about modern government that they don't take credit for, often with very little in the way of proof. They are, as presented, a decaying organization. Governments are too large for them to easily control, and as time waxes, so too does the power of commerce and industry to decide the fates of nations. A Hegemon does not control a corporation, or at least the old-style ones don't, but this desire for Unity, I think, can be twisted in many directions, and I think that there might be at least a few different ways one could be a Hegemon. I'm going to list three/four different sub-factions I think you could use, in addition (read the Seer book, it's pretty great) to the basic/'normal' ideology of a Hegemon. These are, it must be understood, methods and ways to do things, ways of thinking about the basics.
First, there are those who believed that Imperialism showed the way. They wish to try to find a way to return to (and at the time they held great power) the days of a few (not one, but a few) colonial powers, each of which, according to some Seers, would represent symbolically the might of the Exarchs if properly controlled, and which would oppress and undo all of the wrongs of the world (to their eyes) and return it to a state in which the Exarchs Will Is Law. They seek alliances with anyone and everyone, for their star is fallen, but Imperialists, with their roots into the deep states of a surprising number of countries, are still a force to be reckoned with.
Second, Nationalists. We are not speaking here of individual nations, though it is true that some are legitimately trying to redeem their nations by seeking power. There are odd sorts everywhere. But these are people who cheer for every splitting off of power. They want every ethnicity in the world to create their own enclaves, to fight and struggle, and some of them have quite a lot of truck with some more Darwinian Praetorians who feel that the will of the Exarch (or at least the 'winner') might be revealed in these large scale upheavals. The world divided into a thousand cells, and each united by an ideology as strong as steel.
Third, Unitarians. They are the people who believe in One World Government or (in some cases: see the sub-faction) one uniting ideology and system. But this One Government would not be one that would allow Sleepers to Awaken. It would, in the dreams of these Seer radicals who are often controversial even among their own, serve as a direct conduit from the top to the middle. Perhaps the Hegemonic Minister would be the absolute Dictator of the world, head of UN or some more powerful body, and thus every action in the world would be guided by Unity. Some obviously think that this would also be best for mankind, for in a world such as this, there would be only small, controlled, planned wars. In a world like this all faiths would be one lie. In a world like this, the boot on the face of the world would not be spiked. Others, obviously, have far more vicious and dystopian ideals. Unfortunately for them, the amount of power and influence it would take to achieve this is astronomical, and so some view them as mere cranks, and considering that some of their attempts to centralize the world have recently started failing, their claim to be the last, best hope for a retrenchment of power...strikes some as sketchy at best.
As a sub-faction of the above, there are those who believe that ideological reunification is best. These people, who study all of the doctrines of the world for hints of the Exarch's design want the world to be all Capitalist. Or all Communist. Or all...whatever their studies and search for hidden Truths (that they then destroy/hide/interpret as Exarchial) says is more wanted by the Exarchs. When all people follow the same religion (and here they do muscle in on Pasternoster territory, but then, again, each Ministry has arms in each thing) and believe in the same doctrines, then what does it matter that there is a national border, that there is not one lord, because there is: The Exarchs and their chosen ideals.
They tend to try to control from above, though in the last century they have been doing more and more and more work from below, backing revolutionaries on the way to dictatorship, supporting gang-lords that usurp the local government or even get patsies elected, and all while doing so, some Hegemons claim, betraying or ruining that which makes theirs a Great Ministry, their focus. And yet, as the power struggles grow, as the arguments fester, it seems as if there is no solution that can unite (eh, eh) the Ministry.
So, to try to wrap up the Hegemonic Ministry, they've faded for a while, but there is still the chance that they could come back, and part of what they've been trying is new things (the Unitarians) as well as attempting to stop outsourcing functions. Mammon, Panopticon (which eats into the security state that they might well think should be run by One Mind), [Tech], Paternoster, many are sure that relying on these and other Ministries has strayed from the true way, and thus they wish to return to the true faith in one technique and one Mind and One World, united against Awakening, but divided against each other, unable to truly seek 'Truth' that they do not deserve, never deserved, and never will deserve.
Panopticon
The eye sees all, from above and below. EarthScorpion's idea of the preacher Panopticon, making people paranoid about the view of God, about being seen by God and thus having their sins be known, is a perfect entryway. They wish to create a world where people think at all times about other people and their gaze.
But more than that, the Eye they worship, or so they think, is already like that. They're paranoid and others should be paranoid as well. People should feel naked at every moment, and yet, plenty of them feel that way. Plenty of them understand that they're on watch, that their faith is one that also might make them guilty as well.
Yet, they have to grow comfortable with it. The 'Tree of Eyes' is a doctrine that states that each person must spy on one superior and one inferior. That means that there is no such thing as privacy, and that they shouldn't want privacy. They're suppressing, often enough, the desire for peace and quiet, and their ideology is at once tempting (the religious angle, the angle of wanting to know) and yet, to those not sold on it, repulsive.
Even two centuries ago, they would have had very little traction, but the tides of history seem to be turning towards them. Sousveillance has been on the rise, cellphones revealing the crimes of cops that might have once lied about it, the weak showing the world the truth, and yet, to the dismay of some Panopticon members, people often shrug it away.
Some members want to empower Sousveillance, want the government and all people in power to be terrified of doing wrong, terrified of thinking wrong. They think that this is the perfect way to compliment other Ministries, and that the fear from below is the best way to control the powerful. Because as it stands, there is not enough fear in the system: create consequences, and then all will be terrified into line. These members believe that while the security state is expanding, the power for mere Sleepers to actually see is limited. An oppressive government records ten thousand conversations, but has only the man hours to to look over a small fraction of them. There is a limit to what the government, small as it is even in the largest state as a percentage of the population, can do. They believe that this is the best way to replace the Hegemons, who do not realize that the world has changed. One of the Lesser Ministries can do far better in a world where the reach of the state into the brain of every man is not so absolute.
Others, on the other hand, say that just you wait: they believe that the state still has legs when it comes to monitoring people. This is a matter of degrees (no good member of the Panopticon discards two of the three Gazes), but they try to focus on the top. Like the Hegemons that brought them in (and that they are now supplanting), they are most likely to work at the top than the bottom.
And finally, there are those that think that culture itself, the mass that is vague and all around them, can provide the best way to make others feel watched. They manipulate media to try to encourage people to judge themselves harshly. They understand that every doubt can be magnified in the right eyes, that every flaw can become large. Psychologists, advertisers, false friends, they think that it is best that man does not reach too far, and this fear of themselves, of their own judgment, is the best way to manage them: and after all, if this fear keeps them from sin, some argue, than it is not only useful, but it is just.
The Ministry is on the rise, and yet there are troubling signs on the horizon. It has existed as a real power for just over a century, and yet even now it does feel other Ministries nipping at its heels. Looking to take some of its functions, or question the way it works. But for the moment, unlike the Hegemonic Ministry, they seem to be doing well, and their diversity of method but relative unity of mindset has worked rather well in providing diversity. The gangland killer might find a place in them instead of the Praetorian if he trades in secrets and knows where the bodies are buried. Politicians, doctors, philosophers...the Panopticon has room for everyone.
Because it wants to watch everyone.
*******
A/N: Alright, so, this is part one of the rough draft, unedited effortpost. I have to go to work, so I decided to just divide it into parts because I want likes. I mean, because I want to show that I'm doing stuff and things.
All of this could definitely be expanded with specific examples, but I wanted to try to work in some factions, but didn't want to give too many specifics yet. I might do that later. If you like it or want to build off of it (like doing an example Pylon of an Example Faction or whatnot) then feel free.
...also, I am going to shoot for threadmark or something because this is thousands of words long.
How did I write this much in an hour while being distracted?
Hmm hmmm. I dunno how this found itself here.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Also, just to ask, is there anywhere that tells more about Mammon/Pan-what-tech-eon? They're mentioned in the Seer book, but I just want to check before I make up a background/founding date/etc for them, because in the Seers book they are not directly covered, more mentioned/talked about.
Edit: Also, open for criticism/places where you think I might add more details. I might do examples of a Pylon from one of the factions or something like that...after I'm doing with the main part of it.
Edit: Also, open for criticism/places where you think I might add more details. I might do examples of a Pylon from one of the factions or something like that...after I'm doing with the main part of it.
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- England
Reign of the Exarchs and Imperial Mysteries for Mammon, and Mage Noir for Pantechnicon.
Both Ministries are servants of the Chancellor, Exarch of Matter.
Mammon - have an Adept (!) for a Minister, who's actually a statted character in one of RotE's adventures, because he's a patsy and fall-guy for the archmasters and masters who make up Mammon's Tetrarchs. They're not the only Ministry to work like that (Paternoster does), but it's worth noting. They're actually quite old as Ministries go, several centuries at least, they just never quite got the traction needed to replace one of the four Greaters, and the last time a Great Ministry fell was in the 1950s, but Mammon lost that opportunity to Panopticon (who seized onto the cold war's paranoia). Mammon believe in encouraging humanity to only care about anything in terms of its worth, at first to them and then ideally in the abstract. Things like Diamonds being valued far beyond what they should be and used as justifications for mass slaughters please them - DeBeers is a good example of what a Mammon-run company acts like. Some Mammon Seers do develop a Prelacy - "Scarcity" - which they take as signs that they have the Chancellor's favour, but if they have a Servitor race they're only rumours. The Ministry believes in biding its time among the Tetrarchies - they're on the rise simply because of the way human civilisation has gone - and waiting for Hegemony to crumble as nation-states give way to business interests.
The way that the rise of right wing politics goes after Mammon's assumptions *and* seems like a renewal of Hegemony's symbolism would give them pause, but they're probably pleased with how those new-fascist governments have ended up more in the thrall of big money than their equivalents last century that knocked Mammon back a peg. Still, interesting times to be a Mammon high-up.
As for the Chancellor, it's one of two Exarchs to have a described Ochemata in the gameline. The Shadow of the Chancellor is in Imperial Mysteries, working to warp the Temenos realm of Charity to poison its concept with self-interest.
Pantechnicon are smaller and have a more detailed history, most of which is outlined in Mage Noir. They're the remains of those Nameless who accepted Hegemony's offer of Technocracy rather than take part in the Great Refusal. While Mammon serve the Chancellor by encouraging people to focus on abstract "worth", Pantechnicon go for dependency - they want Sleeper society to rely on technology they have control over, so that those with the control - the suppliers - are elevated and more easily influenced by the Seers. Pantechnicon never met a walled-garden technology, patent farm, or multimillion tech company that serves only advertisers and itself that they didn't like.
The problem is that Pantechnicon is screwed, and always has been. Not only is their schtick verging on the territory of Panopticon (especially things like Social Media and commoditizing the internet, and invasive technologies like cell phones) but the Free Council has had a hate boner for them since that Order was founded. The Libertines like to tell new mages that no one accepted the Seers' offer back in the day, and the Assemblies take an especial grim joy in making that retroactively true. So, with the bright young Greater Ministry acting as a constant talent-drain able to give more benefits to apprentices (the Eye is firmly in favour of her Ministry, while as far as anyone can tell the Chancellor is indifferent to Pantechnicon) and the largest Order of mages in the world gunning specifically for them, Pantechnicon Seers have been in a precarious state for over a century and don't look like getting any better.
The bit in Mage Noir concerns Pantechnicon's role in creating the stereotypical tension between the Free Council and Silver Ladder that exists in the US. The Silver Ladder in most of the world is the Free Council's main ally in the Pentacle - the Ladder created the Free Council, in many ways, by offering the alliance to the Nameless following the Great Refusal, succeeding where Hegemony failed. The fifth Order is seen as the crowning achievement of the last few centuries for the Ladder forging One Nation out of the Awakened.
Except in the older generation of USA-based Ladder and Libertines, who hate one another and pass it on to their students.
In the post-World War 2 years, while mortal governments were spiriting nazi scientists away to safety / indentured servitude, the Ladder and Council collaborated on a vast, organized effort to get Awakened from the defeated nations to safety and set them up with new lives and Shadow Names. Both Orders screwed the other over, unintentionally. The Ladder thought "is a Pentacle mage" was more important than if the evacuee had joined in with atrocities, and the Council used the opportunity to offer amnesty to Pantechnicon Seers on the quiet. Enough high-profile cases of evacuees turning out to be Left-Handed or still active Seers later, and the whole thing fell apart in bitter recrimination.
Both Ministries are servants of the Chancellor, Exarch of Matter.
Mammon - have an Adept (!) for a Minister, who's actually a statted character in one of RotE's adventures, because he's a patsy and fall-guy for the archmasters and masters who make up Mammon's Tetrarchs. They're not the only Ministry to work like that (Paternoster does), but it's worth noting. They're actually quite old as Ministries go, several centuries at least, they just never quite got the traction needed to replace one of the four Greaters, and the last time a Great Ministry fell was in the 1950s, but Mammon lost that opportunity to Panopticon (who seized onto the cold war's paranoia). Mammon believe in encouraging humanity to only care about anything in terms of its worth, at first to them and then ideally in the abstract. Things like Diamonds being valued far beyond what they should be and used as justifications for mass slaughters please them - DeBeers is a good example of what a Mammon-run company acts like. Some Mammon Seers do develop a Prelacy - "Scarcity" - which they take as signs that they have the Chancellor's favour, but if they have a Servitor race they're only rumours. The Ministry believes in biding its time among the Tetrarchies - they're on the rise simply because of the way human civilisation has gone - and waiting for Hegemony to crumble as nation-states give way to business interests.
The way that the rise of right wing politics goes after Mammon's assumptions *and* seems like a renewal of Hegemony's symbolism would give them pause, but they're probably pleased with how those new-fascist governments have ended up more in the thrall of big money than their equivalents last century that knocked Mammon back a peg. Still, interesting times to be a Mammon high-up.
As for the Chancellor, it's one of two Exarchs to have a described Ochemata in the gameline. The Shadow of the Chancellor is in Imperial Mysteries, working to warp the Temenos realm of Charity to poison its concept with self-interest.
Pantechnicon are smaller and have a more detailed history, most of which is outlined in Mage Noir. They're the remains of those Nameless who accepted Hegemony's offer of Technocracy rather than take part in the Great Refusal. While Mammon serve the Chancellor by encouraging people to focus on abstract "worth", Pantechnicon go for dependency - they want Sleeper society to rely on technology they have control over, so that those with the control - the suppliers - are elevated and more easily influenced by the Seers. Pantechnicon never met a walled-garden technology, patent farm, or multimillion tech company that serves only advertisers and itself that they didn't like.
The problem is that Pantechnicon is screwed, and always has been. Not only is their schtick verging on the territory of Panopticon (especially things like Social Media and commoditizing the internet, and invasive technologies like cell phones) but the Free Council has had a hate boner for them since that Order was founded. The Libertines like to tell new mages that no one accepted the Seers' offer back in the day, and the Assemblies take an especial grim joy in making that retroactively true. So, with the bright young Greater Ministry acting as a constant talent-drain able to give more benefits to apprentices (the Eye is firmly in favour of her Ministry, while as far as anyone can tell the Chancellor is indifferent to Pantechnicon) and the largest Order of mages in the world gunning specifically for them, Pantechnicon Seers have been in a precarious state for over a century and don't look like getting any better.
The bit in Mage Noir concerns Pantechnicon's role in creating the stereotypical tension between the Free Council and Silver Ladder that exists in the US. The Silver Ladder in most of the world is the Free Council's main ally in the Pentacle - the Ladder created the Free Council, in many ways, by offering the alliance to the Nameless following the Great Refusal, succeeding where Hegemony failed. The fifth Order is seen as the crowning achievement of the last few centuries for the Ladder forging One Nation out of the Awakened.
Except in the older generation of USA-based Ladder and Libertines, who hate one another and pass it on to their students.
In the post-World War 2 years, while mortal governments were spiriting nazi scientists away to safety / indentured servitude, the Ladder and Council collaborated on a vast, organized effort to get Awakened from the defeated nations to safety and set them up with new lives and Shadow Names. Both Orders screwed the other over, unintentionally. The Ladder thought "is a Pentacle mage" was more important than if the evacuee had joined in with atrocities, and the Council used the opportunity to offer amnesty to Pantechnicon Seers on the quiet. Enough high-profile cases of evacuees turning out to be Left-Handed or still active Seers later, and the whole thing fell apart in bitter recrimination.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Some of this just raises further questions, honestly. Like, what Great Ministry fell? The Hegemons have been the sick man of Seerdom for a century or so, but at no point was some other Ministry dying mentioned, and it doesn't make sense that it wouldn't be a huge fucking deal?
Also, that statement actually contradicts the Seers of The Throne book, which states that Panopticon was brought in [ed] in the 18th century, or something like that, specifically by the Hegemons...not in the 1950s.
One presumes (since while there have never been more than four, there have been less) that until that point there were just three Great Ministries because there's absolutely nothing special about the number four. It's just never been higher because split power too many ways and there's nothing Great about the Ministries. So yeah, a lot of this feels off. I mean, you're the dev of course, but I am doing an act of homebrew, so, yeah.
Also, seeing as I'm not working with the Free Council (no offense to you), I'm going to have to find a way to make things up/change that part up. Though I'll probably find some way to keep it ambiguous so that people who like the Free Council could still totally use the advice-notes on the Pan-tech group.
...though it's stupid that they just don't have all of this in the actual Seers book, and instead segregate it in some stupid (well maybe it's good, sure, but that's 20 more dollars) Noir side-book.
Edit: Man, I did not think I'd be waking up and disagreeing with a dev, but some of this story just doesn't quite entirely seem to fit together, sorta? Especially the, "There must be four" thing, since that just adds another Ministry that apparently died without a single ripple, rather than just saying, "Hegemons brought it from three to four[1], hoping that it'd discomfit their enemies...and instead they signed their own slow death notice."
[1] Thus not necessitating a giant act of homebrewing and creating design space for an entire Ministry that literally nobody mentions or cares about even 50 years later, not even in a, "Watch out for this former crazy guy from X ministry."
Edit 2: Still, thanks for the info, hope my tone wasn't too hostile.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Weird thing is, I wrote out the post about how that didn't make sense, and then saw it was from DaveB and then went back and edited it some. But still, I don't think some of that holds together? Or at least it seems to contradict the mood of the Seers of the Throne book.
Edit: Actually, the Seers book claims that they became a Great Ministry "In the 18th century, the Panopticon became a Ministry at the behest of the hegemons." Though, this itself also raises further questions, since the 18th and 19th century (the 1700s/1800s) wasn't a time known for a vast security state to actually support the Panopticon's work as a Great Ministry (unless it's meant to be tied into the French Revolution?). So...*shrugs*
Maybe both narratives don't quite make sense, but putting them in the 1950s and having them replace some other Sir-not-appearing-in-this-book Ministry seems like it'd cause more problems than it solves.
Edit 2: Obviously, you're perfectly within your rights to disagree with my on this, so.
Edit 3: Then we get into the Name of the Tetrarchy (it means rule of four) and then that just gets more confusing? I mean, an entire incredibly powerful and important Seer Ministry just disappears and is replaced in the 1950s without anyone noting it? Bringing it back to the 1800s might be a smarter decision, because honestly, after two-hundred years, it'd be easy to portray this "Tetrarchy" as totally the natural state of things, and please pay no attention to the phrase "Triarchy" in the old manuscripts.
Edit: Actually, the Seers book claims that they became a Great Ministry "In the 18th century, the Panopticon became a Ministry at the behest of the hegemons." Though, this itself also raises further questions, since the 18th and 19th century (the 1700s/1800s) wasn't a time known for a vast security state to actually support the Panopticon's work as a Great Ministry (unless it's meant to be tied into the French Revolution?). So...*shrugs*
Maybe both narratives don't quite make sense, but putting them in the 1950s and having them replace some other Sir-not-appearing-in-this-book Ministry seems like it'd cause more problems than it solves.
Edit 2: Obviously, you're perfectly within your rights to disagree with my on this, so.
Edit 3: Then we get into the Name of the Tetrarchy (it means rule of four) and then that just gets more confusing? I mean, an entire incredibly powerful and important Seer Ministry just disappears and is replaced in the 1950s without anyone noting it? Bringing it back to the 1800s might be a smarter decision, because honestly, after two-hundred years, it'd be easy to portray this "Tetrarchy" as totally the natural state of things, and please pay no attention to the phrase "Triarchy" in the old manuscripts.
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