TLDR: I wasn't criticizing D&D, it has its design philosophy that it should be judged by either way, I think White Wolf was trying for something else,

And if they were, they comprehensively failed. They can claim everything they like, but at a system level, there is far, far more support given to combat than anything else and that while Intelligence and Wits as least resolve out fairly nicely (though not really as "Power" and "Finesse" - it's actually a question of the timescales over which they apply), Charisma/Presence and Manipulation do not.

I don't like FATE much, but FATE is a system where these things actually apply. Storytelling/Storyteller are not, and have never been.

I have some hopes for what I've heard of Scion 2e, which looks like it's breaking out the chainsaws and cutting away all the legacy cruft from VtM 1e that still haunts every WW game to date. But as it stands, at a systematic level and denuded of cheap words, WW systems are combat systems with a prosthetic "resolve other generic things" thing attached on.

(Well, apart from Exalted 2e, which had a Social Combat system and it was aaaaaaaaaaaawful. Let it never be said that adding additional mechanical support and weight actually makes the added things good.)
 
And if they were, they comprehensively failed. They can claim everything they like, but at a system level, there is far, far more support given to combat than anything else and that while Intelligence and Wits as least resolve out fairly nicely (though not really as "Power" and "Finesse" - it's actually a question of the timescales over which they apply), Charisma/Presence and Manipulation do not.

I don't like FATE much, but FATE is a system where these things actually apply. Storytelling/Storyteller are not, and have never been.

I have some hopes for what I've heard of Scion 2e, which looks like it's breaking out the chainsaws and cutting away all the legacy cruft from VtM 1e that still haunts every WW game to date. But as it stands, at a systematic level and denuded of cheap words, WW systems are combat systems with a prosthetic "resolve other generic things" thing attached on.

(Well, apart from Exalted 2e, which had a Social Combat system and it was aaaaaaaaaaaawful. Let it never be said that adding additional mechanical support and weight actually makes the added things good.)

I mean, admittedly if Scion 2e makes a really good generic system that can be ported back into nWoD and I like it more than what's already there, well that's one way to solve the problem, I suppose, so I'm cheering for them either way, I suppose?

Trying to focus on something positive to say, since I think we have disagreements in terms of opinions. (In the sense that I think the system has flaws but still mostly works and so I'm mostly-sorta fine with it, whereas I wouldn't be (and would be desperately grabbing for anything that can fix and rescue Changeling and other gamelines I like from their own systems) if I thought it was as bad as...

Well, the Exalted example would be how apparently 1e had combat that never ended and 2e mandated Paranoia Combat.)

But if Scion 2e can come up with something that fixes the problems, then who knows, maybe if I ever do a third nWoD Quest I'll use that instead, or see if I can't smush the two together.
 
I have to agree with Laurent. CofD's social system is fuzzy in either edition but it's workable. Especially considering you'd need to rewrite everything that interacts with the system if you wanted to change it. Too much work to make it worth it unless you're writing a new edition.
 
I genuinely can't handle the art in the 1e Mage corebook. They're hillariously cringe inducing. Like I think the artist's other work are genuinely good, like the tarots and stuff, but the core art is just bad
 
Had another session of mage. The players explored Kodak tower, and discovered that in a bout of insane symbology, Kodak tower resonates with the Watchtower of the Lunargent Thorn, and the broken Celestial Ladder. Since it's broken, it's letting the Abyss into Rochester. It's also guarded by Peregrine Falcons that are inhabited by Arcadian spirit-guardians that have been tainted by the abyss. You can also use it as a sympathetic focus to target any area in Rochester. It's really pretty crazy, and my players had no idea how to fix the Abyssal incursions into Rochester. Until they decided that the best way to try would be economic revitalization, to remove the symbology of the fall and paper it over with Phenomenal Reality.
 
Had another session of mage. The players explored Kodak tower, and discovered that in a bout of insane symbology, Kodak tower resonates with the Watchtower of the Lunargent Thorn, and the broken Celestial Ladder. Since it's broken, it's letting the Abyss into Rochester. It's also guarded by Peregrine Falcons that are inhabited by Arcadian spirit-guardians that have been tainted by the abyss. You can also use it as a sympathetic focus to target any area in Rochester. It's really pretty crazy, and my players had no idea how to fix the Abyssal incursions into Rochester. Until they decided that the best way to try would be economic revitalization, to remove the symbology of the fall and paper it over with Phenomenal Reality.
Sounds interesting, I should get around to polishing up my application with familiar stats and commonly used tools.

Anyone got recommendations for the Ban and Bane of the spirit of a slightly crooked boxing ring?
 
I have two things to say

1.I am thinking of trying to run a crossover game of old world of darkness and alien, using the System I posted a while ago , is that something people would be interested

2. There is this asmr* YouTuber named indigo stars who does a lot of world of darkness videos , mostly vampire the masquerade , and I was wondering if anyone has Heard of her

* it's basically a type of video for relaxation. It's mostly whispering
 
Grabaere, the Unfettered Knights

The Grabaere are a Revenant family with their origins in Cappadocian ghouls. The Cappadocians studied death extensively and became masters at giving the dead a semblance of life and animating corpses. Among their tools was the creation of Athanatoi, twisted parodies of the Persian Immortals. Athanatoi, also known as Corpse Knights, were corpses raised from the dead to become soldiers with one imperative - to fight and kill. Through ritual concoctions, the Cappadocians learned how to give their ghouls tainted blood that would turn them into Corpse Knights upon death. Bound by the blood bond, the Corpse Knights created in this way were loyal without the need for the necromancer to wrest mental control over a berserk.

Much like prolonged consumption of Vitae gave the rise to normal Revenants, consumption of Vitae mixed with Corpse Knight ashes gave rise to the Grabaere - Revenants who become Corpse Knights upon their death. If the Cappadocians ever learned what they'd created, all records were lost when the Giovanni put the former Clan to the sword. While their domitors were hunted down to a man, the ghouls that had served them often slipped between the Giovanni's fingers. A small clan of Grabaere families, led by patriarchs and matriarchs taught the very basics of necromancy by their Cappadocian masters to serve as assistants in the study of death, survived by escaping to the fringes of the Holy Roman Empire, where they attempted to hide their mystical condition from the assassins of the Giovanni.

The Grabaere have survived to the Modern Nights as a secretive clan of small families with a penchant for necromancy. And turning into murderous monsters when when they die.

Animating as Corpse Knights
Like all Revenants, the Grabaere produce their own Vitae by 'natural' processes. As long as a Grabaere has at least one point of their own, tainted, Vitae in their blood pool when they die, they will immediately rise as a Corpse Knight. What was once a somewhat resilient person becomes an avatar of Death itself, rarely driven by anything but a desire to spread death far and wide. To mortal onlookers, there is little reason to believe the Grabaere has died at all - the sudden invigoration the Grabaere experiences is usually interpreted as a dying mind using the body's last reserves to attack anyone its animal brain recognises as a threat - that's at least what numerous coroner and police reports say, when they don't simply write it off as a criminal drugged to their eyeballs on PCP. In the Modern Nights, Corpse Knights rarely have time to show off their paranormal nature; when they begin their killing sprees, local police are usually able to put them down long before they begin to rot, and few think to test a Corpse Knight for a pulse while it's still ambulatory.

Not all Grabaere animate as Corpse Knights, and among those who do, not all are fully mindless. With the long lives and natural fortitude of Revenants, many Grabaere meet their ends addled by diseases that slowly sap their lives. What little Vitae the ghoul has is spent in a desperate attempt to keep alive, and many Grabaere die in bed, clean of the tainted blood that has coursed through their veins since before they were born. These do not rise as Corpse Knights.

Most often, a newly risen Corpse Knight will attack anyone and everyone. Some Corpse Knights, however, are more selective in their targets. If the Grabaere was focused on visiting violence against a hated enemy, the Corpse Knight may be filled with a monomaniacal drive to kill that specific person. Only when that task has been fulfilled will the Corpse Knight go on a general killing spree, though they will kill anyone who interferes with their mission.

The inner sect of Grabaere necromancers knows rituals that can compel a Grabaere Corpse Knight to obey the necromancer and visit violence upon whomever the necromancer wishes.

Playing Grabaere
Appearance: The tainted Vitae marks the Grabaere with the visage of death. They troubled with extreme pallor and can barely blush, making them appear emotionally cold at best and sickly a worst. At a glance, they appear not to move or breathe at all, though even a cursory inspection will reveal they do have signs of life.
Character Creation: Like their parent Clan the Grabaere have always been inclined towards intellectual pursuits and the study of the dead. Many are drawn to work as coroners, morticians, nurses and doctors, with Mental Attributes reigning supreme. Some take a less conventional approach to come into contact with the dead and seek to employment as soldiers and police officers - a cultural remnant of their role as Cappadocian foot-soldiers. Owing to this and the needs of the family in the Giovanni pogroms, the Grabaere value martial skills.
Disciplines: Auspex, Fortitude, Necromancy
Weakness: The Grabaere suffer the effects of the Visage of Death Flaw, giving them a corpse-like appearance and +1 to the Difficulty of Social rolls not based on Intimidation.
Special: The tainted Vitae make the Grabaere more resilient to pain, reducing all wound penalties by -1. When a Grabaere dies with at least one point of their tainted Vitae in their blood pool, they become a Corpse Knight. If the Grabaere had a particular hatred of a specific person when they died, roll the Grabaere's Willpower against a difficulty of 7. On a success, the rising Corpse Knight will seek out that person specifically rather than going on an indiscriminate killing spree. This roll fails automatically if the target cannot be reached by foot before the Corpse Knight would stop being animated from lack of tainted Vitae.

Corpse Knights:
STR 3 DEX 3 STA 4
CHA 0 MAN 0 APP 0
PER 1 INT 1 WIT 2.

Athletics 2
Brawl 2
Dodge 3
Firearms 2
Melee 2
If the Grabaere had a higher rating in any of these Abilities, use that value instead.

Corpse Knights have 5 Bruised (0) and one Crippled (-5) health levels. They soak Bashing and Lethal damage like vampires.

Corpse Knights are mindless undead, giving them the usual immunities to mental Disciplines. They can perform few tasks outside of fighting; opening doors or smashing windows to climb through is the level of creative thinking they're capable of.

Corpse Knights are created with a pool of tainted Vitae equal to the amount of tainted Vitae in the Grabaere they rose from. For each day that passes since the Corpse Knight rose, one point of tainted Vitae is spent. When the pool becomes empty, the Corpse Knight becomes a regular corpse.
 
Last edited:
So, there are like five versions of Princess. Which is the best one?
This depends on which version you use.
One version says "any that aren't morally bankrupt" and the other says "none, organizations don't exist".
No, it's just that the author of that version is obsessed about preventing any mechanical representation of Nobles interacting with large groups of non-Nobles.
Version that allows for wider interaction with the World of Darkness certainly is better.
I differ to expertise of Sydonai,
 
Hmm?
Then I'd say Vocation if you don't want to use The Kings Raven's version.
If you want to know the specifics of what I was talking about then the discussion/debate/argument begins here and continues for a while.
It's a debate still ongoing in the community!

Now that we're discussing Princess again. . .
From what I've seen I think they would get along pretty well with the Union, Network Zero, VASCU, the Maiden's Blood Sisterhood, some members of the Long Night, sometimes Les Mystères, sometimes Utopia Now, sometimes Ahl al-Jabal, occasionally the Barrett Commission, Mothers Against Cult Activity(read; Habibti Ma), the members of the Night Watch that focus less on gang activity and more on Hunting/Patrolling, and maybe the really traditional Ascending Ones if they come from the same culture.
Based on ideas from Discord conversation a couple days ago. . .
. . . I find Network Zero affiliated Princess great idea!
Idol is classic Magic Girl archetype
Take spreading Hope online!
Anybody bringing that level attention to themselves in World of Darkness ought be swimming in danger.
Otherwise why shouldn't you be bringing Hope to millions?
Be a Network Zero Magical Girl Idol!
I day say nothing could possibly go even slightly wrong?
Nope, nothing at all.
The World of Darkness is a place that certainly won't smite that.
It's a foolproof plan, utterly foolproof ;)
 
Last edited:
. . . I find Network Zero affiliated Princess great idea!
Heh, this was actually brought up before, sort of;
Speaking of Cities;
Princess The Hopeful: Manila
It's mostly focused on Princess, but has some room for crossover.
Network One - Social Media fans and enthusiasts, Network One has the distinction that it was founded by Mortals, Mortals who were once part of a Hunter Compact dedicated to revealing the truth about the Supernatural. However, said Mortals, in the Philippines, decided that Supernatural Predation was less of a worry than Mortal Vice and Mortal Corruption, and that the group can do more to use their advantages to expose the injustices of this world. This attracted the attention of a Beacon related to the Hunters, who then informed the Radiant who didn't like the Kalasag and found the Sociedad to slow and stodgy and not doing anything at all, and after tense negotiations, the Hunters and the Radiant formed a Camaraderie with several 'cancer cells' (Hunter term for groups containing Supernatural members).
 
Last edited:
True, but Network One has the dual advantages of wanting to talk about things the masses are actually willing to listen to and openly accepting "Cancer Cells".
Reaching a few thousand in single country doesn't compare to reaching a hand to millions globally?
(It's a question of quality versus quantity)
 
Back
Top