Left-Hand Path is very good.

Except for the Tremere part.

We already have Masquerade to orally pleasure the Tremere.

Because yeah, those wondering, I'm still researching/thinking about that (potentially) Mage Quest. Just finished reading a book on Prohibition, it gave me a lot of ideas. I mean, a ton, really, including some specific elements of stuff that happened during those times that can be given a magical gloss. Like Wood Alcohol and Jake Alcohol and all of the bad, dangerous drink that got slung around and killed and blinded and fucked people up in large numbers. It just reeks of maybe being some sort of abyssal trick, or some very unethical mage doing some bullshit with alchemy to test something, etc, etc.

Plus the rise of cocktail culture, the open hypocrisy going on, some of the interesting people involved in one way or another with it, the fifty different methods people used to get alcohol, the rise in violent crime and organized crime and the effect it might have on Mages...

Yes, with the exception of the Tremere section.

In essence, because the Tremere liches have the legacy Tremere name, they need to be super-special and have special double-legacy powers and they need to shut down on the number of actually-more-interesting Reaper legacies because they're so special.

Fuck the Tremere. All kinds. (apart from Ars Magica ones - they're still cool)

On the other hand, the Sclestus, the "weird legacies" and the Nameless Order stuff is all cool, and the Mad rules are pretty damn good. It's just the fucking Tremere and their super-specialness that gets on my tits.

So buy the PDF, but not the book copy for more?
 
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On the other hand, the Sclestus, the "weird legacies" and the Nameless Order stuff is all cool, and the Mad rules are pretty damn good. It's just the fucking Tremere and their super-specialness that gets on my tits.

but es they arnt a legacy theyre super special corrupted moros that can go into torpor and have special sub-legacies as part of their legacy

wait what are you doing with that heavy hardcover there

NO ES NO NOT THE FACE OH GOD IT HURTS
 
So buy the PDF, but not the book copy for more?

Heh. I honestly stopped buying hardcover RPGs a while ago. I just don't have the space where I live now. And back at my parents', my RPG collection is more than a metre if stacked together.

But yeah, I'd say that LHP is worth a PDF buy. Just ignore the Tremere section. Or reverse-engineer the rather cooler Reaper legacies that they stole powers from back to full Legacy status.
 
Heh. I honestly stopped buying hardcover RPGs a while ago. I just don't have the space where I live now. And back at my parents', my RPG collection is more than a metre if stacked together.

But yeah, I'd say that LHP is worth a PDF buy. Just ignore the Tremere section. Or reverse-engineer the rather cooler Reaper legacies that they stole powers from back to full Legacy status.

I've only ever bought one book hardcover, but it was really fun being able to take it around, and it was sorta pretty and rather well made (I mean, in terms of layout and etc) so I've been thinking about getting more.[1]

[1] It was from the 7th Sea Kickstarter, if you're wondering. The art's pretty good and the hardcover looks nice.

Edit: Oh, something amusing. In the 'Summoners' book, which is really good and that's why I wanted to read about the Left Handed next, one of the Abyssal entities eats things. Like, memories, the existence of a corpse, etc, etc. But nothing alive. And there are rumors that the Tremere after a certain time aren't actually counted as alive and so you can totally summon her (or so rumors say) and just have her eat them for you.

...I mean, it's an Abyssal entity so you're already evil, but at least you killed a Tremere, right?
 
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literally just ignore their existence

the tremere are shitty
Yeah, Mages already have decent longevity options, and I must question how the elders manage to cover eating a soul a month. Because even if they're circumspect about their habits they're going to have to constantly be walking around shielded from basic Death spells to notice they're walking around with a different soul than a few weeks ago.
 
To be fair, Tremere is the word in the language of Reality for 'God-damn Asshole(s)' and sometimes that also means being a God-damn Special Snowflake Asshole(s) because assholes come in all shapes and sizes. And there is no instance of the Tremere in all of time and space where they not God-damn Assholes.

Plus early CofD had that frustrating thing of wanting to be removed from WoD but at the same time not wanting to be too far from WoD so we get things like the Tremere popping up in a new form when they didn't need to.
 
literally just ignore their existence

the tremere are shitty

Yeah. When it comes down to it, I think that's the heart of my objection to the Tremere at a more fundamental level than just "wow, look at them busy trying to make a silly oWoD legacy feature super-special".

Why the fuck are they a Legacy? Why isn't "eating souls to extend your life" just a function of Death? So you can't just look at any mage who's already got a Legacy and go "Nope, not a soul-eating liche" - no, anyone who knows how to do things with the soul can be a soul-eater. And how do you prove otherwise?
 
Yeah. When it comes down to it, I think that's the heart of my objection to the Tremere at a more fundamental level than just "wow, look at them busy trying to make a silly oWoD legacy feature super-special".

Why the fuck are they a Legacy? Why isn't "eating souls to extend your life" just a function of Death? So you can't just look at any mage who's already got a Legacy and go "Nope, not a soul-eating liche" - no, anyone who knows how to do things with the soul can be a soul-eater. And how do you prove otherwise?

The problem with the Tremere is that they get to break a lot of codified rules already established and they do so in a shitty way.

Like, first of all we have this really neato magic system right there in the core that every mage follows no exceptions, they may have permutations or a little extra stuff, but as a general rule, everything follows that system.

And then we get to the Tremere in Left-Hand Path who get to do things such as "go into torpor" and subsume other Legacies into their own Legacy, which is to be frank, fucking retarded.

We have this really fucking neat unified magic system that every mage is supposed to follow, but the Tremere suddenly get to ignore that and become super-special ultra-snowflakes.

And yes, Death should totally allow you to eat souls.
 
The problem with the Tremere is that they get to break a lot of codified rules already established and they do so in a shitty way.

No, I mean, like, even at a corebook level. Even before the super-dumb rule-breaking "look at us we're so special" stuff of LHP.

Being a Liche should just be something you can do with Death. And the side effects start to accumulate as you drag your life out more and more. At any point, you can just... stop eating souls.

I mean, sure, then time takes back what you stole and it might just kill you, but it's your choice. It's always your choice.
 
No, I mean, like, even at a corebook level. Even before the super-dumb rule-breaking "look at us we're so special" stuff of LHP.

Being a Liche should just be something you can do with Death. And the side effects start to accumulate as you drag your life out more and more. At any point, you can just... stop eating souls.

I mean, sure, then time takes back what you stole and it might just kill you, but it's your choice. It's always your choice.

Well, yeah I totally agree. I just highlighted yet another problem with the Tremere (and there are many), but yes Death should totally let you eat souls.
 
The funny thing is that liches in oWoD were way cooler than nWoD liches.

Like, they even had a way cooler ritual than 'eating souls.' Kill everyone and destroy everything important to you as a metaphysical sacrifice for pretty much total immortality.

worthit.jpg.

Liches in oWoD are pretty cool.

Though a liche in NWoD is literally any mage who uses magic to extend his life.

It's basically a political designation.

Where was that from?

Dead Magic IIRC.
 
Where was that from?
Dead Magic 2, under Etruscan magic.

It's an Entropy 4/Life 4/Matter 4/Spirit 3-4/Prime 3/Mind 1 rote that involves ritual suicide, requires you to already have destroyed all metaphysical connections you have, and turns you into a static undead mage. You get to keep your Awakened power though, unlike basically all the other "turn irrevocably into a different type of being" options. Your Arete's stuck where it was before the ritual forever, though.

(Having only Spirit 3 rather than 4 requires you bind your Avatar to a Phylactery, though.)

I'd imagine with ES's Death Sphere in play, you could sub that in for the Entropy, Matter, and Spirit requirements, making it 'merely' a Death 4/Life 4/Prime 3/Mind 1 rote. That's only two Adept-level Spheres! Easy as far as immortality goes!

It's also derived from the same ritual that's used to bring Mummies back to life, but... very very heavily warped.
 
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EDIT: I'll also point out that my "pathetic little trick" can be performed by any two-bit Mage with two dots of Forces and a Rote, and is actually way more destructive than the major hurricane provided by Potent Weather Magic.

That's because Potent Weather Magic serves a different purpoe. You pull out Forces 2 when you want to hit a bitch. You pull out Potent Weather Magic when you want to do country-scale ecological engineering.

The proper use of it is to unfuck the environment, say by washing away a toxic waste dump that's turning animals into super-powered man-eating mutants, or to ruin a Pentex rainforrest logging operation that's actually meant to release Hexxus.

To be fair, Tremere is the word in the language of Reality for 'God-damn Asshole(s)' and sometimes that also means being a God-damn Special Snowflake Asshole(s) because assholes come in all shapes and sizes. And there is no instance of the Tremere in all of time and space where they not God-damn Assholes.

Tremere is Latin for Shiver.

Brujah is Spanish for Witch.

So, Clan Witch flips out and beats people to death with super strength and Clan Shiver casts magic spells.

No, that doesn't make any sense.
 
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Though a liche in NWoD is literally any mage who uses magic to extend his life.

It's basically a political designation.

Yep.

In my own headcanon, "Liche" is a word used to refer to any mage that extends their life through "unseemly means."[1] In theory, it's supposed to apply to mages who go around doing shit like eating souls or literally stealing years of life from others and is vague enough to cover people coming up with new fucked up tricks to extend life.

In practice however, Liche tends to get applied to and removed from people who it probably shouldn't due to a variety of political maneuvering.



[1]As opposed to seemly methods of extending your life, like cheating with Life magic or an alchemist creating an elixir of life.
 
I am announcing that I shall do something. In commemoration of finishing that book on Prohibition, I'm going to do some prohibition-themed homebrewing over the next few days! So stay tuned. Don't touch that dial!
 
TL Homebrew: Bacchanal Goblet
(* or **, not sure yet) Bacchanal Goblet

Origin: Many are the Tokens that are obscured by the mists of time and rumor. An easy guess when one knows what it does would be that it was a themed True Fae. Just as the Civil War seemed to excite certain Keepers into recreating the slaughter in their own realm for their own amusement, so did the coming of Prohibition give some Keepers ideas, both then and long after the fact. But in this case, to the learned Changeling scholar the origins are quite clear. In San Francisco, a city that was never even touched by Prohibition, there was a certain powerful Changeling, part of the courtless faction that was rather large at the time, after the collapse of a non-seasonal system left many stranded.

Her name was Aniseed, a flowering fairest with a love for parties and drink, but strange and occult politics. But what was most important was that in those days drink couldn't be trusted. Less so there than elsewhere, but often the hard liquor that clubs had was smuggled and then mixed and adulterated, and perhaps it was that frustration that spawned the Token, though she clearly did not choose to make it, and it eventually would cause her great harm.

From her it passed to several others, and now might be found anywhere in the continental United States, in the possession of some lucky, or unlucky, reveler.

Effect: The cup has two effects, both quite interesting. When a drink that is offered by someone else is poured into it, in a case where the other person has made a claim, explicit or implicit, as to what it is, it can tell if that person is a liar. If a person pours mixed shit and says it's Jack Daniels, the cup feels warm to the touch, and the person who spent the glamour implicitly knows that the alcohol was not what was promised.

It then converts the alcohol into what it truly should be, but only if the false drink was poured to deceive the buyer or receiver [1]. Each new drink would require a new application of glamour to prime it, but for its first owner and many afterwards, this was perfect as a way to make sure the night got off to a good start. Which was nice, since...

Drawback: The next morning, whether the user even drank the alcohol converted, and regardless (in fact unrelated) to how many drinks they took, the user has a raging hangover, the sort that can ruin an entire morning and should be accompanied by a somewhat steep penalty to all actions. It's the mother of all headaches, the kind that makes you regret all of your sins. And yet, if you're going to have the headache...why not have the fun?[2]
Catch: For each time the mortal (or Changeling low on glamour or not trusting his Wyrd) uses it, the next day he finds himself vomiting heavily, and he suffers one point of bashing damage that heals as if it were lethal. His insides come up and for days afterwards he's shaky. This stacks, and if all health boxes are filled with damage, then he has vomited until he has passed out on the floor, and is probably in for a rude awakening.
Afterlife: After Prohibition, most of its uses were done with. Some who held it in the years afterwards were wine snobs who used it to fight against the tide of alcohol that claims to be the vintage of such and such a year, but is reality watered down.

And there are historians and other figures among Changelings who think it a lovely piece of history to own...and never use, of course.

But the greatest use was one that didn't really occur to that many people at the time. Among a certain paranoid set who nonetheless had to drink with enemies, its ability to clear out poisoned drinks (if the poison was in the bottle and not added afterwards while they were looking away) of their effects was deemed worth the miserable next morning. And the fact that it told the user when this happened meant that it was perfect for uncovering assassination attempts, at least certain types of attempts.

In this guise it has seen use down to the modern day, though currently it is likely in the hands of an interested collector.

[1] This is a way so that someone can't say, "This is Thomas Jefferson's wine" and then wink and thereby let the Changeling try something like that. The syntax here is weird, I know.
[2] That's about two-thirds of the point of the drawback. It encourages absolute excess in anyone using it, and the penalty doesn't stack, so use it as many times as you want in a night. Destroy your liver, destroy your life, what does it matter, because you're getting the hangover anyways, so might as well do the 'fun' stuff too. It's designed for that sort of fatalistic, throw everything away, drinking.

*****
So, I decided to start small with a Token. I need to decide the cost, and I still need to figure out just what the penalties for a hangover are, but I hope you enjoyed reading this.

The 'Afterlife' section is something I'll do for all of these sections, explaining how they might be used or show up after the 1920s, when they are set. In the case of people (who aren't vampires) it might not go all the way until the modern day, but I'll at least try to give a view of things so that someone could tear it out from the Roaring Twenties and use it if they were so inclined.

So, thoughts? Next I'll do a character, though I need to decide which one. I have a few ideas. A vampire of the Ordo, a Hunter based off of a real person, and a Mage Bootlegger/Rum Runner who runs more than just Rum.
 
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