Taiping Rebellion is someone having a dream by god (*cough* Obrimos *cough*) and then leading a massive rebellion to overthrow authority.

The Boxers under the Boxer rebellion thought that heaven would make them immune to foreign weaponry and that through martial arts training alone, they could drive out the foreigners and that millions of soldiers of Heaven would descend to drive the foreigners out. The boxer war in CWoD was probably much more pitched than it looked like in real life, and has mostly been manipulated and covered up so that normal people doen't see the records of cyborgs dueling ascetic monks that can walk on air.
 
The Boxers under the Boxer rebellion thought that heaven would make them immune to foreign weaponry and that through martial arts training alone, they could drive out the foreigners and that millions of soldiers of Heaven would descend to drive the foreigners out. The boxer war in CWoD was probably much more pitched than it looked like in real life, and has mostly been manipulated and covered up so that normal people doen't see the records of cyborgs dueling ascetic monks that can walk on air.

Also, from the timing it's likely that it was an Akashic play to try to take advantage of how the Union was distracted by the Electrodyne Engineers. They gambled that they'd be able to secure control before the Union could get its act together and send a military response. Things didn't go as planned, when the Technocracy promptly moved to back the Eight-Nation Alliance against the Boxers.
 
Also, from the timing it's likely that it was an Akashic play to try to take advantage of how the Union was distracted by the Electrodyne Engineers. They gambled that they'd be able to secure control before the Union could get its act together and send a military response. Things didn't go as planned, when the Technocracy promptly moved to back the Eight-Nation Alliance against the Boxers.

They did manage to hurt the chinese Tehcnocracy something fierce though. I imagine that it was actually a really pitched battle where Akashic Masters like Donghaichuan and Cobra Chen fought on the Akashic side and completely devastated the Union in singular encounters.
 
They did manage to hurt the chinese Tehcnocracy something fierce though. I imagine that it was actually a really pitched battle where Akashic Masters like Donghaichuan and Cobra Chen fought on the Akashic side and completely devastated the Union in singular encounters.

Yes. It's likely that this is what fundamentally broke the back of the Five Metal Dragons.

Next time the Chinese Technocracy rises to prominence, they're "proper" Conventions and the old Five Metal Dragons are reduced to ineffectual secret societies of bitter old men.
 
Yes. It's likely that this is what fundamentally broke the back of the Five Metal Dragons.

Next time the Chinese Technocracy rises to prominence, they're "proper" Conventions and the old Five Metal Dragons are reduced to ineffectual secret societies of bitter old men.

It doesn't help that the Boxers have a really weird relationship with China. Like, large parts of China kinda liked them, and still does and even in the West, lots of relatively popular philosophers and poets (Twain, Tolstoy etc.) think highly of them, meaning that the Rebellion is a pretty bad setback for the Technocracy.

And worst of all they didn't manage to kill a lot of those Akashic Masters, like Donghaichuan who happily dies in his bed, performing mudras until the breath leaves him on his deathbed.

Like, they managed to kill one of his best students out of three.

Way to go Technocratic Union, you killed an Adept to Master-ranked Mage that could kung fu, I'm sure you're proud.
 
So, oMage question - how does troll-casting work, mechanically speaking?

Like, say my Iteration X engineer is out in the field, and he happens to notice an Chorister using a white-hot flaming sword to cut apart some a mob of Bobs. Being a steadfast member of iteration X, he's going to look at that sword and think to himself "Well, that's just not safe, holding a piece of flaming metal that close to your body - and anyways, it might look impressive, but it's just going to get bent as soon as he hits something tough." And so I as a player decide to weaponize that reaction, making a Forces 3 attack on the Chorister with the justification "having extremely hot metal in close proximity to your body is going to result in some nasty burns. Do I need to have some method in paradigm of causing that (i.e. some kind of "counter-device" focus that will allow for disruption of careful magics) or does my natural belief that "fire burns things" allow me to remotely burn the guy, even without conscious effort on my character's part.

Similarly lets say my NWO type sees a VA/Dreamspeaker using Pokemon Go on a modded phone to communicate with, fight and capture spirits. Now, I know that people who get to focused on pokemon go are probably gonna get hit by a car sooner or later. Therefor, I use entropy to ensure that a car will be coming alog at the same time he tries to cross the street. Maybe with additional Forces, to make the collision worse, or Mind, to make him more engrossed in his game.Can I just go "seriously? you're not even going to look up as you crosswa;l, dumbass?" Or do I need them to say distract the individual as he crosses with conversation for the effect to kick in?
 
Similarly lets say my NWO type sees a VA/Dreamspeaker using Pokemon Go on a modded phone to communicate with, fight and capture spirits. Now, I know that people who get to focused on pokemon go are probably gonna get hit by a car sooner or later. Therefor, I use entropy to ensure that a car will be coming alog at the same time he tries to cross the street. Maybe with additional Forces, to make the collision worse, or Mind, to make him more engrossed in his game.Can I just go "seriously? you're not even going to look up as you crosswa;l, dumbass?" Or do I need them to say distract the individual as he crosses with conversation for the effect to kick in?

Just as a note, as a NWO agent harassing a Traditionalist it's a lot more effective to use your spheres to buff the MIB who's driving a car specifically aiming to run this guy over. Among other things, it all-but removes the risk he notices the curse you've laid on him to be run over - and on top of that, it's also easier to buff a MIB than hex a hostile mage.

Plus, it makes sure there's a car on hand who can be relied to "accidentally" reverse over the target.
 
So, oMage question - how does troll-casting work, mechanically speaking?

Like, say my Iteration X engineer is out in the field, and he happens to notice an Chorister using a white-hot flaming sword to cut apart some a mob of Bobs. Being a steadfast member of iteration X, he's going to look at that sword and think to himself "Well, that's just not safe, holding a piece of flaming metal that close to your body - and anyways, it might look impressive, but it's just going to get bent as soon as he hits something tough." And so I as a player decide to weaponize that reaction, making a Forces 3 attack on the Chorister with the justification "having extremely hot metal in close proximity to your body is going to result in some nasty burns. Do I need to have some method in paradigm of causing that (i.e. some kind of "counter-device" focus that will allow for disruption of careful magics) or does my natural belief that "fire burns things" allow me to remotely burn the guy, even without conscious effort on my character's part.

According to Guide to The Technocracy, all Technocrats can use technology as a general focus for their Procedures, and possess a specialised apparatus for each of their Spheres that they can use for those Spheres to take a -1 difficulty. So you can totally do the second thing, because it's part of the "physics" paradigm, you could also use a Thermal Accelerator to do it with a -1 difficulty, but you don't need to.

Similarly lets say my NWO type sees a VA/Dreamspeaker using Pokemon Go on a modded phone to communicate with, fight and capture spirits. Now, I know that people who get to focused on pokemon go are probably gonna get hit by a car sooner or later. Therefor, I use entropy to ensure that a car will be coming alog at the same time he tries to cross the street. Maybe with additional Forces, to make the collision worse, or Mind, to make him more engrossed in his game.Can I just go "seriously? you're not even going to look up as you crosswa;l, dumbass?" Or do I need them to say distract the individual as he crosses with conversation for the effect to kick in?

I'm less certain here, maybe @MJ12 Commando or @EarthScorpion are more sure.

EDIT: Operative'd
 
Just as a note, as a NWO agent harassing a Traditionalist it's a lot more effective to use your spheres to buff the MIB who's driving a car specifically aiming to run this guy over. Among other things, it all-but removes the risk he notices the curse you've laid on him to be run over - and on top of that, it's also easier to buff a MIB than hex a hostile mage.

Plus, it makes sure there's a car on hand who can be relied to "accidentally" reverse over the target.

"OH NO THIS IS TERRIBLE I RAN HIM OVER!"

"I'LL JUST DRIVE BACKWARDS TO SEE"

*crunching noise*

"OH NO I RAN HIM OVER AGAIN, HERE I'LL DRIVE FORWARD SO HE CAN HAVE PEACE"

"OH NO"
 
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"OH NO THIS IS TERRIBLE I RAN HIM OVER!"

"I'LL JUST DRIVE BACKWARDS TO SEE"

*crunching noise*

"OH NO I RAN HIM OVER AGAIN, HERE I'LL DRIVE FOR"

"Agent Balmer, why did you specifically request a female MIB for this targeted elimination?"

"Because woman drivers, am I right?"

"..."

"... sorry, ma'am. You're going to send me to Room 101, aren't you?"

"No. I'm sending you to HR, for Gender Awareness Training."

"Sorry, just to check, did we rename Room 101 and I just wasn't informed about it? There's so many memos from HR that I lose track."

"Balmer? Go."

"... mutter mutter stupid bosses and their cultural marxism."
 
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"Agent Balmer, why did you specifically request a female MIB for this targeted elimination?"

"Because woman drivers, am I right?"

"..."

"... sorry, ma'am. You're going to send me to Room 101, aren't you?"

"No. I'm sending you to HR, for Gender Awareness Training."

"Sorry, just to check, did we rename Room 101 and I just wasn't informed about it? There's so many memos from HR that I lose track."

"Balmer? Go."

"... mutter mutter stupid bosses and their cultural marxism."

Meanwhile in Disbursements:

"By the way, that car you requisitioned was like, way too expensive so we're gonna have to-"

*snorts cocaine from an Appearance 8 female construct with skin of gold*

"right, we're gonna have to ask for a recompense in the shape of-"

*snorts cocaine from an Appearance 8 male construct with skin of gold*

"where was I? Oh yes, we'll need a recompense in the shape of limiting your funding by [ARBITRARILY LARGE NUMBER], since it seems like that other Amalgam in your city needs it."

*snorts cocaine from an Appearance 8 intersex construct with skin of gold*
 
The Boxers under the Boxer rebellion thought that heaven would make them immune to foreign weaponry and that through martial arts training alone, they could drive out the foreigners and that millions of soldiers of Heaven would descend to drive the foreigners out. The boxer war in CWoD was probably much more pitched than it looked like in real life. . .
Even if Maxims proved better overall what if Boxer Wars outcome had sleepers believing in lower end super powered martial arts?
Eight-Nations Alliance regularly encounter it while Union is distracted or something.
Can't be covered up but needs paradigm friendly excuse.
How does Technocracy explain how entirety of Westerners failed to notice it before?
 
Even if Maxims proved better overall what if Boxer Wars outcome had sleepers believing in lower end super powered martial arts?
Eight-Nations Alliance regularly encounter it while Union is distracted or something.
Can't be covered up but needs paradigm friendly excuse.
How does Technocracy explain how entirety of Westerners failed to notice it before?

Quick and Dirty Pseudoscience Way: You'd have to integrate Chi into the paradigm. This isn't difficult. Invent tools that can measure and quantify it. Define what it is and set limits to it.

Slow and Elegant Real Science Way: Adrenalin and psychosomatic self-hypnosis. You hear stories about 90 pound women lifting two-ton cars to save their children. This is the same thing. The human body is capable of supposedly superhuman feats, but our minds stop us, and for good reason, as it causes extreme wear and tear. On top of that, there are little tricks that you can do, with practice, that seem superhuman to the untrained but aren't. Lying on a bed of nails works because of pressure. An individual nail will go in, but spread your weight over a bed of them, and you're safe. Likewise, hot coals will burn your feet if you stand in them, but not if you move fast and minimize contact time. And if those two don't explain it, then witnesses are just remembering wrong. Human memory is very fallible.
 
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Slow and Elegant Real Science Way: Adrenalin and psychosomatic self-hypnosis. You hear stories about 90 pound women lifting two-ton cars to save their children. This is the same thing. The human body is capable of supposedly superhuman feats, but our minds stop us, and for good reason, as it causes extreme wear and tear. On top of that, there are little tricks that you can do, with practice, that seem superhuman to the untrained but aren't. Lying on a bed of nails works because of pressure. An individual nail will go in, but spread your weight over a bed of them, and you're safe. Likewise, hot coals will burn your feet if you stand in them, but not if you move fast and minimize contact time. And of those two don't explain it, then witnesses are just remembering wrong. Human memory is very fallible.
So even if everyone acknowledges those dudes that can repeatedly stop late 1890s bullets. . .
A) Certainly won't be good against higher velocity ammunition?
B) Not good for anybody's longer term health with stress on the body?
 
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Yeah, I'm not sure I want to go that way. But lacking in specific Spheres feels like it'll cripple TU rather fierce, you know?

I did consider making a new Entropy as Technocracy-specific Death Arcanum/Sphere, like Dimensional Science. But I'm not sure how to go about that.
Eh, maybe? Technocrats in general just... don't really deal with ghosts. From the Death Sphercanum, there are only a couple things that a Technocrat would even really want:
  • Forensic investigation/determining causes of death. This is also replicable with Time postcognition; as such, the need for Death here is spotty.
  • Detecting undead. This is something they might actually want to do, and might legitimately be a reason for Technocrats to pick up the first dot. For ghosts, this should be folded into Dimensional Science. Detecting via Life perceptions probably can handle other undead by virtue of "there is something really weird going on there oh shit vampire".
  • Deathsight. It's a form of Mage sight, so any Sphere should be quite capable of performing its abilities.
  • Manipulating darkness. Technocrats don't... really believe in darkness as a thing apart from the absence of light. If it's the equivalent of Obtenebration in a metaphysical sense, this also might be heretical anyway. Most Technocrats would want to take this through Forces.
  • Interacting with the Underworld and the Shroud. This should probably be a thing that Dimensional Science does.
  • Destroying ghosts and ectoplasm. Something NSC and related other-Convention groups might actually take, except Dimensional Science phasers.
  • Destroying other things. Use the appropriate Sphercanum for the thing it is. Or Dimensional Science phasers.
  • Countering others' uses of Death. This is the sort of thing Primium and other Prime countermagick is made for.
  • Shielding via entropy. Every Spherecanum can shield you, Death is not necessary for this.
  • Making zombies. You might actually want Death for this! Moooost people aren't going to be inventing White Tower units though, and IIRC this in modern times will likely be done through Sorcerers.
Manipulating ghosts in non-pewpew manners and interacting with souls are at best questionable unless it's strictly a resurrection-type thing.

Seems to me that apart from the things 'borrowed' from other non-Spirit Spheres, the thing to do here is simply let Dimensional Science continue to work in relation to the Underworld and ghosts the same way it interacts with the rest of the Umbrae and other EDEs. And use lots of Primium/Thaumium, but you should be trying to do that a lot anyway.

Maybe particular Technocrats with particular interest in certain phenomena - such as vampires or doing ItX research into binding ghosts as AIs - have institutional subject-specific knowledge or are doing research into Death, and have some dots in it. That's for specific projects though; Death simply doesn't do that much that a good little Technocrat who leans Dimensional Science should even want to accomplish.

And a naughty Technocrat isn't going to care about its rarity or questionable orthodoxy.
 
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So even if everyone acknowledges those guy that can repeatedly stop late 1890s bullets. . .
A) Certainly won't be good against higher velocity ammunition?
B) Not good for anybody's longer term health with stress on the body?

The Iron Shirt Technique works by tensing the muscles in the abdomen so that they catch and stop the blow. This is the same technique that Houdini used to stop punches. But when he was caught off guard, he died of a ruptured spleen.

The same can work against bullets, if they're fired from a distance and have lost a significant portion of their energy. But they won't just be bouncing off the chest, they'll damage the skin and the underlying muscle, which will soon fail. Tales of people stopping bullets with their naked skin at point blank range are, of course, fabrications or hallucinations. In many cases they were actually shot and injured, it's just that with adrenaline pumping one bullet wasn't enough to take them down. Combat is fast paced, and people don't always see what is really happening. The most successful Iron Shirt boxers were wearing steel plates under their clothes.
 
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Quick and Dirty Pseudoscience Way: You'd have to integrate Chi into the paradigm. This isn't difficult. Invent tools that can measure and quantify it. Define what it is and set limits to it.
That would be a fun alternate setting.
It would not be a pseudoscience but normal part of everyday life?
Mage setting with different stuff being part of mundane but science consensus are plenty fun.
 
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Eh, maybe? Technocrats in general just... don't really deal with ghosts. From the Death Sphercanum, there are only a couple things that a Technocrat would even really want:

Pretty much.

I mean, for my oDeath export, it's basically a sphere you buy if you really want to do things with ghosts, but don't really care so much about other kinds of spirits and so want to grab a bunch of other useful effects for being a necromancer.

Honestly, buying it indicates you're the sort of Technocrat who's edging into Etherite territory anyway. Totally Ghostbusters-okay, but VEs don't really have much of a reason to not just buy DSci instead.
 
Pretty much.

I mean, for my oDeath export, it's basically a sphere you buy if you really want to do things with ghosts, but don't really care so much about other kinds of spirits and so want to grab a bunch of other useful effects for being a necromancer.

Honestly, buying it indicates you're the sort of Technocrat who's edging into Etherite territory anyway. Totally Ghostbusters-okay, but VEs don't really have much of a reason to not just buy DSci instead.

If you're importing the nMage system wholesale to cover magical effects then you won't have Dimensional Science as Sphere/Arcanum. Not unless you homebrew it in, which is a lot more work.
 
Eh, maybe? Technocrats in general just... don't really deal with ghosts. From the Death Sphercanum, there are only a couple things that a Technocrat would even really want:
  • Forensic investigation/determining causes of death. This is also replicable with Time postcognition; as such, the need for Death here is spotty.
  • Detecting undead. This is something they might actually want to do, and might legitimately be a reason for Technocrats to pick up the first dot. For ghosts, this should be folded into Dimensional Science. Detecting via Life perceptions probably can handle other undead by virtue of "there is something really weird going on there oh shit vampire".
  • Deathsight. It's a form of Mage sight, so any Sphere should be quite capable of performing its abilities.
  • Manipulating darkness. Technocrats don't... really believe in darkness as a thing apart from the absence of light. If it's the equivalent of Obtenebration in a metaphysical sense, this also might be heretical anyway. Most Technocrats would want to take this through Forces.
  • Interacting with the Underworld and the Shroud. This should probably be a thing that Dimensional Science does.
  • Destroying ghosts and ectoplasm. Something NSC and related other-Convention groups might actually take, except Dimensional Science phasers.
  • Destroying other things. Use the appropriate Sphercanum for the thing it is. Or Dimensional Science phasers.
  • Countering others' uses of Death. This is the sort of thing Primium and other Prime countermagick is made for.
  • Shielding via entropy. Every Spherecanum can shield you, Death is not necessary for this.
  • Making zombies. You might actually want Death for this! Moooost people aren't going to be inventing White Tower units though, and IIRC this in modern times will likely be done through Sorcerers.
Manipulating ghosts in non-pewpew manners and interacting with souls are at best questionable unless it's strictly a resurrection-type thing.

Seems to me that apart from the things 'borrowed' from other non-Spirit Spheres, the thing to do here is simply let Dimensional Science continue to work in relation to the Underworld and ghosts the same way it interacts with the rest of the Umbrae and other EDEs. And use lots of Primium/Thaumium, but you should be trying to do that a lot anyway.

Maybe particular Technocrats with particular interest in certain phenomena - such as vampires or doing ItX research into binding ghosts as AIs - have institutional subject-specific knowledge or are doing research into Death, and have some dots in it. That's for specific projects though; Death simply doesn't do that much that a good little Technocrat who leans Dimensional Science should even want to accomplish.

And a naughty Technocrat isn't going to care about its rarity or questionable orthodoxy.
Pretty much.

I mean, for my oDeath export, it's basically a sphere you buy if you really want to do things with ghosts, but don't really care so much about other kinds of spirits and so want to grab a bunch of other useful effects for being a necromancer.

Honestly, buying it indicates you're the sort of Technocrat who's edging into Etherite territory anyway. Totally Ghostbusters-okay, but VEs don't really have much of a reason to not just buy DSci instead.
One might then question if DiSci in a theoretically NWoD ruleset might need to be made a touch weaker but I think the strongest side, agg against everything at 3, gets pushed back via fraying etc anyway?
 
That would be a fun alternate setting.
It would not be a pseudoscience but normal part of everyday life?
Mage setting with different stuff being part of mundane but science consensus are plenty fun.

Yes.

I imaging that they'd tie Chi to the Luminiferous Ether. Perhaps Chi energy is actually Aether, absorbed and manipulated by living cells. This prevents them from having to invent some sort of life force, which would almost certainly drive the Progenitors away.

The connection of Chi to the respiration of Aether means that the Electrodyne Engineers never leave the Union. And they're going to end up working pretty closely with both the Progenitors and Itteration X.

Einstein never publishes Special Relativity, and the Michelson–Morley experiments are discredited.

The Void Engineers build aether sail ships. Rocketry never takes off.
 
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