Remove ads

White Wolf's World of Darkness

Reader mode
Pretenders essentially get lots of experience points and are allowed to spend them willy-nilly on skills, permanently. That's about it. No drawbacks. (That's talking about the main power Jarod has; other, borderline-ESP and outright ESP powers and their drawbacks are another matter.)
 
Jared was able to become a world class sniper at age 10, which is how he determined that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't have acted alone.

vicky_molokh said:
Pretenders essentially get lots of experience points and are allowed to spend them willy-nilly on skills, permanently. That's about it. No drawbacks. (That's talking about the main power Jarod has; other, borderline-ESP and outright ESP powers and their drawbacks are another matter.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Angelo's abilities probably aren't worth the crippling sideeffects.
 
One thing I'm wondering is how much sense/how interesting it is to stick with the idea of one worldwide organization? Like, with the Seers, for instance. To believe their story, for the most part, there was a group in China, Sub-Saharan Africa, North America, South America and Southern France (I mean, and other places) who called themselves "Seers of the Throne" and all were nominally (very nominally) on the same team.

Not sure how I feel about that.
 
The Laurent said:
One thing I'm wondering is how much sense/how interesting it is to stick with the idea of one worldwide organization? Like, with the Seers, for instance. To believe their story, for the most part, there was a group in China, Sub-Saharan Africa, North America, South America and Southern France (I mean, and other places) who called themselves "Seers of the Throne" and all were nominally (very nominally) on the same team.
Not sure how I feel about that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They all ultimately work for the Exarchs, but that doesn't mean they all know about each other.

There are definitely multiple different groups, probably working at cross-purposes, that think they are the only Seers in the world.
Think of these ones like terrorist cells, they are sometimes called a single organization but for some of them their only official contact or training is the mystical equivalent of Youtube videos.
 
Last edited:
Sydonai said:
They all ultimately work for the Exarchs, but that doesn't mean they all know about each other.
There are definitely multiple different groups, probably working at cross-purposes, that think they are the only Seers in the world.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That's what I thought. Only I was thinking they probably wouldn't all call themselves "Seers." Like, I was thinking of this in context with China, and maybe their version of the Seers traditionally relies heavy on the 'Unity' and 'Panopticon' as the leading lights, and sort of co-opts the 'Celestial Bureaucracy' sort of mindset, kinda?

Was just trying to think it through.

Actually, for that matter, I'm currently thinking at a low level whether and how different Chinese Mages would be in general. I mean, would Atlantis (as an idea) even resonate with them?
 
Seers are only really nominally united, not opposed to each other to the degree of changing their name, but certainly enough to scheme against each other at the same degree they do against members of the Pentacle. Seers only present a unified front against their enemies in the Pentacle to seem far bigger and more intimidating than they actually are, while the real Seer hierarcy is labyrinthine mess of a bureaucracy deliberately set up to turn everyone into enemies of everyone, as to most effectively produce the most backstabbing, assholish motherfuckers to ever lead an organization.

So basically the Seers are a pretty average corporate bureaucracy.
 
The Laurent said:
One thing I'm wondering is how much sense/how interesting it is to stick with the idea of one worldwide organization? Like, with the Seers, for instance. To believe their story, for the most part, there was a group in China, Sub-Saharan Africa, North America, South America and Southern France (I mean, and other places) who called themselves "Seers of the Throne" and all were nominally (very nominally) on the same team.

Not sure how I feel about that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Seer Great Ministries are global-scale organisations. Remember, not only are they led by archmasters, but when you have easy access to Space 2, distance means very little indeed when it comes to "keeping in contact".

However, there are also multiple Ministries dedicated to the Eye. Panopticon is the big dog of the Eye-worshipping ministries, but a small Ministry is basically a large cabal.

And no, of course they don't call themselves the "Seers of the Throne". Why would a sub-group who consider themselves to be the Elect, saved by God for the Rapture, call themselves "Seers of the Throne"? "Seers of the Throne" is a metagame tag. Hell, even within the book they're sometimes referred to as the Iron Pyramid, or the Blood of the Dragon.
 
The Laurent said:
Actually, for that matter, I'm currently thinking at a low level whether and how different Chinese Mages would be in general. I mean, would Atlantis (as an idea) even resonate with them?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Once again, I simply have to point out that Secrets of the Ruined Temple was one of the very first books for nMage, so it's not like it wasn't established very early on in the line that Atlantis does not mean Plato's Atlantis (and that is why people should refer to it as the Awakened City, or the Dragon Empire).
 
The Laurent said:
One thing I'm wondering is how much sense/how interesting it is to stick with the idea of one worldwide organization? Like, with the Seers, for instance. To believe their story, for the most part, there was a group in China, Sub-Saharan Africa, North America, South America and Southern France (I mean, and other places) who called themselves "Seers of the Throne" and all were nominally (very nominally) on the same team.

Not sure how I feel about that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What? No. God, no. Not in either edition.

The Seers aren't the youngest Order (for obscure data purposes, that's actually the Arrow) but they're firmly in the middle. The first Ministry to call itself a Ministry was Hegemony in the Italian city-states around the 16th century.

Up until then, they were either heretical members of other Orders who thought joining up with / serving the Exarchs would be a good idea, or Nameless Orders of same when they expended the Diamond's patience. Modern mages call the Roman Praetorian cult "the first Ministry" but it was really just the first of those groups, who declared themselves separate to the Diamond while the Diamond was still forming.

Seers (and their precursors) have the advantage of getting top-down organisation anyway, in Mystery Commands from the Exarchs. They really took off after Hegemony introduced the Pyramid to hammer all the disparate cults into a system for disseminating orders from on high. And orders from on middle that those giving them like to say are from on high.

Ultimately, some infighting is good for business. If it's important, and enough Prelates with Commands to sort it out don't work, an Ochemata will manifest to smack some discipline into them.

And that's why the Seers have a truly global organisation rather than the Allied City-State model the Pentacle have. Not because they all started out in step - they got that way over many centuries of blood, sweat, being stomped on by the Diamond, and tears.
 
EarthScorpion said:
Once again, I simply have to point out that Secrets of the Ruined Temple was one of the very first books for nMage, so it's not like it wasn't established very early on in the line that Atlantis does not mean Plato's Atlantis (and that is why people should refer to it as the Awakened City, or the Dragon Empire).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Or anything else really. Atlantis is the name because it has a certain symbolic resonance, and because it easily gets the point across.

But most mages aren't going to actually call it Atlantis, and a lot probably won't believe it existed as anything but a tale or a symbolic expression of the Pentacle's philosophies.

I've taken to calling it The Dream in my games for example.
 
davebrookshaw said:
What? No. God, no. Not in either edition.

The Seers aren't the youngest Order (for obscure data purposes, that's actually the Arrow) but they're firmly in the middle. The first Ministry to call itself a Ministry was Hegemony in the Italian city-states around the 16th century.

Up until then, they were either heretical members of other Orders who thought joining up with / serving the Exarchs would be a good idea, or Nameless Orders of same when they expended the Diamond's patience. Modern mages call the Roman Praetorian cult "the first Ministry" but it was really just the first of those groups, who declared themselves separate to the Diamond while the Diamond was still forming.

Seers (and their precursors) have the advantage of getting top-down organisation anyway, in Mystery Commands from the Exarchs. They really took off after Hegemony introduced the Pyramid to hammer all the disparate cults into a system for disseminating orders from on high. And orders from on middle that those giving them like to say are from on high.

Ultimately, some infighting is good for business. If it's important, and enough Prelates with Commands to sort it out don't work, an Ochemata will manifest to smack some discipline into them.

And that's why the Seers have a truly global organisation rather than the Allied City-State model the Pentacle have. Not because they all started out in step - they got that way over many centuries of blood, sweat, being stomped on by the Diamond, and tears.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Thank you for the information. I think I just misread something, like the foundation of the Paternoster after the 4th crusade and the sack of Constantinople. But I bet if I looked it'd say something about it taking time before it defined/organized itself as a Ministry.

EarthScorpion said:
Once again, I simply have to point out that Secrets of the Ruined Temple was one of the very first books for nMage, so it's not like it wasn't established very early on in the line that Atlantis does not mean Plato's Atlantis (and that is why people should refer to it as the Awakened City, or the Dragon Empire).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I know that. What I *meant* was the form of description. I was actually asking about what form they would interpret what others call 'Atlantis.' Like, there are modern Pentacle Mages who might (eh, some at least) actually call it Atlantis.

That would not, I assume, as you just assured me (this thread really is quite polite and insistent in telling you you're wrong), be the form any explanation of it took for a non-Western audience.

*****
So no, I wasn't claiming it was actually literally Plato's Atlantis. Sorry if it came off that way.

Edit: Also, sorry if this came off as a little flustered. I looked away for a few minutes and there were several different people quoting me.
 
Last edited:
Honestly though, thank you (all who responded) for the perspectives, corrections, and general enthusiasm shown. And yes, Secrets of The Ruined Temple is another book I need to read sometime soon, when I have time.

Apologies if I sometimes come off as ignorant on matters related to Mage, I really am somewhat half-trained when it comes to how many of the books I've read, and how deeply, having come into it mostly as a curiosity.
 
The Laurent said:
Honestly though, thank you (all who responded) for the perspectives, corrections, and general enthusiasm shown. And yes, Secrets of The Ruined Temple is another book I need to read sometime soon, when I have time.

Apologies if I sometimes come off as ignorant on matters related to Mage, I really am somewhat half-trained when it comes to how many of the books I've read, and how deeply, having come into it mostly as a curiosity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This thread has the name of White Wolf's World of Darkness.

Whenever you come off as ignorant, it is simply our duty to make you knowledgeable and also laugh at you and call you stupid.

But you get your revenge whenever you can laugh at us and call us stupid because we got the page number for a specific Kith in Winter Masques wrong or something like that. :V
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top