I definitely have a lot of ideas for how the Quest's first arc/establishment would go. Some will have an immediate threat that they have to deal with, others will have a seemingly intractable situation they have to fight through, and others a larger goal.

For instance, both 'Slave' and 'Banker's Wife', even if they Awaken or become vampires (perhaps especially) are bound and chained by circumstances and problems that will force them to be proactive. The Wife can't just hide in a hovel and eat rats, she needs to somehow find a desperate way to keep her family from falling apart *and* not die *and* find enough money since her husband doesn't have a job and she doesn't anymore either. Similarly, even with Mage, well...

Everyone says that magic can solve all problems: everyone who's an idiot, that is.

And the slave, well. You'd be a partially-literate girl who neither speaks nor reads English being on the verge of being forced into prostitution in a strange and foreign country you don't understand and which has a rather minimal level of sympathy for you. Vampire or Mage, rough is a word for it.

Meanwhile, the Jazz Player, I think, is going to face a more concrete foe. Like, his first problem on top of 'getting used to things' will be an active enemy that he must overcome.

Same for the Preacher's Daughter and the Farmhand.

I wanted a good division of, and idea of, just how these would go:

One thing to note is that I'd probably buy a bunch of books on the winning option and the 20s in general just to be able to flesh it all out.
 
Either way, yeah, feedback is always neat, even if I'm not going to do it anytime soon.
I definitely have a lot of ideas for how the Quest's first arc/establishment would go.
Don't assume initial lack of any feedback is a sign of disinterest.
You've given everyone a lot to consider.
Even somebody like Generalissimo is going contemplate it all before replying.

I'm stopping and thinking before talking?
Not saying first random thoughts coming to mind?
Better check and make certain I am not being dominated :o
 
For "Mage: the Transgression"? Well, the big problem that I always saw with Genius was a fatal inability to commit to either of the two game ideas it was Schrodinger'd between.

See, half the text is describing a very WoD-type game: you're not playing as a Spark from Girl Genius, you're a person succumbing to a very dangerous, unpleasant, and existentially horrifying mental illness - for all who may call it "insight", the force gnawing at the back of your skull represents an ongoing breakdown in your mind's ability to grasp simple, necessary-to-function bits of association, like"a thrown object eventually strikes something", "the night sky is black with speckles of white", or "1+1=2". Humans are practically defined by their ability to identify patterns in almost anything, and now your brain is starting to prioritize nonsensical, pareidolic coincidental correlations over actual chains of logic.

The reason Geniuses start to have trouble communicating with normal people as their "Insight" increases is because the mental garbage flooding their mind is starting to spill out as the light of "Insight" eats out the backs of their eyes, and they end up making crazy hobo statements like "Yeah, fuckin' construction workers don't wear proper boots when they lay new asphalt" when somebody mentions their shoe's untied. And the more they try to explain that initial statement, the more obviously insane they seem, because they are actually insane and what's coming out of their mouth is just schizophrenic word salad.

If you're a "Genius", only difference between you and a dementia patient is that your diseased psyche keeps spitting up schematics and designs based off your madness that can sometimes, maybe, with a great deal of effort and no small amount of luck, be developed into a useful device. For every device you successfully assemble, there's three that will spend eternity half-assembled and stillborn in the depths of the abandoned building you call a laboratory, and even the "successes" are going to be riddled with flaws and design bugs that never, ever come out no matter how hard you try.

It's a game where the mad scientist conceit is just a paper-thin facade, and the meat of things is deconstructing the entire trope - you are a fraud and a lunatic whose bullshit is semi-justified by a supernatural comorbid illness that occasionally makes the universe forget that you're wrong. Its themes are built around very real fears of being pitied and looked down on by others, of feeling like a fake and a failure, and of having your talent fail you when they're needed most.

Unmada and the Enlightened are object lessons on what's probably going to happen to you at some point - fellow sufferers who have either disappeared into a web of delusional coping mechanisms or allowed the illness to dominate them to the point where they no longer care about anything other than fulfilling the irrational compulsions it brings.

Then you have the other half of the text, which @EarthScorpion pegged dead center as oWoD fans who want to play Sons of Ether in the new setting, and the two halves just cannot possibly coexist.

Trying to toss Mage: The Awakening in there is just making the original problem worse, and the motives I'm picking up from the link imply they don't even understand that game's themes, so they'll probably just end up with the TTRPG equivalent of Brundlefly. My prediction is a 9 out of 10 on the Horrible Scale.

As for "Prometheans 2.0"...

First up, his idea for Nu Centimani is just utter shit. Likewise, he seems to really like the idea of having some sort of large Bad Guy Faction opposing the Prometheans, which just feels stupid and unnecessary - the original line's antagonists were always heavily weighted around the idea of unique threats - individuals whose only uniting factor was that they'd all somehow gotten involved with the world of the Created, and ended up using that knowledge to do terrible things.

Tsar Bomba and Cancer Boy might both be Zeky with a thing for mass murder, but they're also individuals with completely separate motives, methods, and ways of thinking, and they'd probably end up killing each other if they happened to meet. Would the game be improved if the two had been shoehorned into some "Cult of the Great Division" in the name of producing a monolithic opposing force for the players? Would Doctor Dunleavy's horribly failed quest to resurrect his son have somehow been made more poignant or narratively fluid if he'd happened to share an employer with Robert Hughes' creepy one man sex-doll company, just because they're both scientific types whose research involved the forcible study of Prometheans? I personally don't think so.

Promethean's themes work best when it's channeling things like The Twilight Zone, Swamp Thing, or The Fall of the House of Usher, honing in on its ideas of uniqueness, personal struggle, and hidden flaws, as opposed to some ill-thought-out "misfits fighting Professor Nefarious" narrative.

Mind you, I did like some of his ideas about giving the Prometheans' inner struggle to define themselves and understand the world around them a degree of mechanical representation, with the throng caught between the twin perils of either becoming a stagnant walking stereotype or losing all sense of self-determination and mental clarity in the face of reality's tumultuousness.

The concept of Prometheans getting dehumanized into object lessons or whitewashed ideals to be inspired by has some value too, but between him trying to drag real-world bullshit into it like Beast did and his treatment of the retarded, ideologically incoherent "moral" of The Protomen's first album* as some brilliant work of human philosophy makes me incredibly doubtful that he could execute those ideas without mashing them into toxic slop in the process.

I'll admit, I myself was a little bummed at how Promethean emphasized trying to become human and lose all the weird alchemy-powers as the thrust of its story, but I also had to admit that it was probably the beating heart of the entire production - for the vast majority of Prometheans, their power is of little use in giving them the things they want, and giving it up in exchange for being able to have a pleasant, ordinary life is a unique endgame for the nWoD setting.

The thing is, you could still have Prometheans who didn't want to become human under the original setup: they wrote up ideas in the Centimanus listing for how you could play as a weird transhumanist, they suggested having Disquiet only apply to non-supernaturals so you could befriend members of other splats, and it wouldn't be impossible to have a small throng who devote themselves to developing Pyros-based "magic", or studying anomalous expressions of the Divine Fire, or are even just members of some big, creepy family of maladjusted Prometheans and mind-controlled Mockeries somewhere out in the sticks who were sent out to gather supplies, or track down a former associate of your 'parents', or check on a secondary settlement where some big project should be paying off by now.

Burning it all to the ground and trying to rebuild with Beast: the Primordial and The Protomen's "The Stand" as blueprints seems destined for apocalyptic failure. 10/10 on the Horrible Scale.



* Seriously, I love the Protomen, but they were terminally depressed when they wrote that album, and it fucking shows. Their version of Protoman is a whiny, self-centered hypocrite who belittled humanity for "not fighting at his side" despite the fact that they, unlike him, weren't bulletproof killing machines with arm-mounted laser cannons and would have thus been hilariously mulched by Wily's robot goons if they tried anything. Also, treating it like some great symbol of the people's corruption when they cheer the defeat of a traitorous shitstain who joined up with their oppressor and went on a killing spree because he apparently felt they didn't love him enough. Seriously, his response to deciding that humanity wasn't worth saving was to start actively helping to crush out all dissent and civilian resistance, making his self-righteous moaning over there being "no heroes left in man" utterly infuriating. Mind you, Doctor Light helped get the ball rolling when he decided to put all hope of mankind's freedom in the hands of a newborn hardware AI, rather than just passing on his knowledge to the resistance so they'd have the engineering know-how they needed to effectively oppose Wily. Part of what made me love Act 2 so much was the way they established why he did that, how Light's worldview renders him largely incapable of seeing the common man as more than helpless victims in need of saving.
 
Duke Ellington's orchestra as a Hunter Group.
Hanging out with Hoagie Carmichael.
He even had a piece called Muggles!
That sounds wonderful.
Big Band: the Vigil :p

As time goes on we can even fight the Beatles who are totally a Mage group for the soul of pop!
If you're willing to play a Nat King Cole path. . .
. . . once popularity stateside begins in earnest. . .
. . . you could still ride a wave of moderate success in South America & Japan :p


Define weak.

Slave works great as Final Girl to a slasher. Flapper isn't bad in that role, either. In the slave's case, it's about finding inner strength, and growing as a person. In the Flapper's case, it's about monsters as metaphors for the traditional oppressive patriarchy.
We keep mistaking physical might for strength.
 
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That sounds wonderful.
Big Band: the Vigil :p

If you're willing to play a Nat King Cole path. . .
. . . once popularity stateside begins in earnest. . .
. . . you could still ride a wave of moderate success in South America & Japan :p


We keep mistaking physical might for strength.

Yeah, I mean, if you want the person who is most based at killing other people, it's the Veteran, duh.

But I'd try to make this a Quest where there isn't some sort of 'combat-OK' thing.

Like, the problem a lot of Tabletop games have that Quests don't is that combat becomes this focus where if you can't help out in combat, you're useless.

The World of Darkness is actually a lot better about that than, say, Exalted (from what I hear), let alone D&D.

So basically, I won't just randomly throw a flesh-eating monster at you to 'punish' you for not spending at least 3-4 dots on combat abilities.

It's the same assurance I gave at the start of KCS...and they still built a combat monster anyways and so got thrown into multiple fights.
 
Yeah, I mean, if you want the person who is most based at killing other people, it's the Veteran, duh.

But I'd try to make this a Quest where there isn't some sort of 'combat-OK' thing.

Like, the problem a lot of Tabletop games have that Quests don't is that combat becomes this focus where if you can't help out in combat, you're useless.

The World of Darkness is actually a lot better about that than, say, Exalted (from what I hear), let alone D&D.

So basically, I won't just randomly throw a flesh-eating monster at you to 'punish' you for not spending at least 3-4 dots on combat abilities.

It's the same assurance I gave at the start of KCS...and they still built a combat monster anyways and so got thrown into multiple fights.
We're all used to extremes inherent of tabletop gaming?
Social characters aren't so useful in combat games.
Combat characters aren't so useful in social games.
All rounders are ok-ish in either but never shine compared to a specialist.

(Exceptions will exist for everything if you look hard enough)

I'll note combat folks can play a big role in sphere of social.
Just you being a worthwhile combat smasher can be helpful to establish yourself socially.
If your Brujah can punch out anything in city the socialites with start circling like buzzing flies.
 
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We're all used to extremes inherent of tabletop gaming?
Social characters aren't so useful in combat games.
Combat characters aren't so useful in combat games.
All rounders are ok-ish in either but never shine compared to a specialist.

(Exceptions will exist for everything if you look hard enough)

I'll note combat folks can play a big role in sphere of social.
Just you being a worthwhile combat smasher can be helpful to establish yourself socially.
If your Brujah can punch out anything in city the socialites with start circling like buzzing flies.

Actually, I totally got taken in.

Now, I managed to actually make an interesting character and it's worked out, but one of the custom Kiths I offered was unbalanced, and then they min-maxed Manipulation down to 1, Presence sky high, and the Kith emphasized this 'Turn social into combat skills' sort of niche.

So they wound up good at both social and combat, though also painfully dense on subtext.

In hindsight, yeah, totally the sort of obvious min-maxing I should have caught or punished or something, but I managed to make it work, and a character that started out as, well, a result of SV being SV has (IMHO, at least) taken on some new life.

It was my first Quest, so don't blame me too harshly for failing to take certain things into account at the start.
 
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The system is set up so that the only winning move is not to play! If you pick fights a dozen times, then eventually you'll roll a bunch of 0 suxes and die!

The more your go-to answer is "Murder" the more likely you are to get killed yourself.
Investigation characters usually overcome combat types by preparation.
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles you will never be in peril." - Art of War
Hunter cell spending three years getting ready to battle *a* vampire certainly have a big advantage.
Bloodsucker has mere seconds of reaction against years of effort.
 
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Yes, but to be blunt, Hunter usually assumes total informational supremacy and supernaturals who don't have other supernaturals of the same type after them.

Neither is a realistic assumption, if you're going for full crossover.

(This is why you shouldn't go for full crossover, because vampires who are not raw neonates expect to be followed and for people to try to find where their haven is. It's like the problem for hunters going up against mages, which is that someone who is prepared for Banishers will not find the AKD to be meaningful opposition. The AKD's relics are stuff that Mysterium Atheniums have lying around in the corner to be used by people who succeed on the "find plot useful token" roll that merit allows you to make.)
 
Yes, but to be blunt, Hunter usually assumes total informational supremacy and supernaturals who don't have other supernaturals of the same type after them.

Neither is a realistic assumption, if you're going for full crossover.

(This is why you shouldn't go for full crossover, because vampires who are not raw neonates expect to be followed and for people to try to find where their haven is. It's like the problem for hunters going up against mages, which is that someone who is prepared for Banishers will not find the AKD to be meaningful opposition. The AKD's relics are stuff that Mysterium Atheniums have lying around in the corner to be used by people who succeed on the "find plot useful token" roll that merit allows you to make.)

Agreed. Hence why the Witches, Vampires, and etc that might be faced in that potential Quest would not be, you know, actual Mages and Vampires.

But yeah, I've made that conclusion, albeit somewhat late in a way.
 
We keep mistaking physical might for strength.

The slave isn't just physically weak. He is a isolated inmigrant that can barely speak english.

I think it's pretty obvious why she doesn't really is a good fit for Hunter, given that one of those requires not only some combat capacity, but also investigation skills, resources, and a certain amount of pure will.

The World of Darkness is actually a lot better about that than, say, Exalted (from what I hear), let alone D&D.

Eh, you can perfectly run non-combat games in Exalted. I certainly had.

(Well, ok, it was a olo game, with helps a lot for that, but then again, that is exactly the reason why Quest can so easily avoid to be combat heavy in the first place).
 
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I dunno there's a certain appeal to a hunter story where the slave owners are literal bloodsucking monsters.

Edit: There's also some space for Mage and Changeling ones, but they'd probably need much more comprehensive setting reworkings to function well. On the other hand, archon slave-owners.
 
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The slave isn't just physically weak. He is a isolated inmigrant that can barely speak english.

I think it's pretty obvious why she doesn't really is a good fit for Hunter, given that one of those requires not only some combat capacity, but also investigation skills, resources, and a certain amount of pure will.



Eh, you can perfectly run non-combat games in Exalted. I certainly had.

(Well, ok, it was a olo game, with helps a lot for that, but then again, that is exactly the reason why Quest can so easily avoid to be combat heavy in the first place).
On the other hand the slave would be a good fight for the hnter because she is escpaing bondate, and so showcaseses, will , possibly raw talent and well, she can still work in chinatown, s I would assume in that time most regular Hunters are ignoring it because after all "better one of them then a white man dies"
 
In a way, that's what the Slave-Vampire game is. I mean, she's a bloodsucking monster too, but to echo ES sorta when talking about Hunters, she's a Five-Nights Old Neonate who is now enslaved to a vampire as his childer.
 
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