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White Wolf's World of Darkness

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The Laurent said:
You know, I wonder if American Nosferatu have to worry about getting shot by the police. I mean, not because 'being shot' is a death sentence or anything, but just because it causes a lot of complications that they have to deal with.

But, I mean, you have powers that make you scary, and then you have a police force that reacts to 'being scared' by shooting it, often at the drop of a hat.

And you're an ugly, inhuman-looking, unnerving-seeming vampire.
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I think it should be kept in mind that the World of Darkness is not a direct analogue of our own. The police aren't going to be direct analogues either; The system is still broken, more broken than real life by any measure, but it's not broken in the same ways.

I'd expect police officers in a Vampire chronicle to be phoning it in, or even be completely subverted by the local Prince, along with most of the local political apparatus. There aren't going to be hard-boiled detectives digging into the mysterious local disappearances- Or, if there are, they'll be exceptions, who have a nasty tendency to disappear themselves before too long. They aren't going to look too closely at questionable figures, either, much less give chase should they run away.

The end result for a Vampire game is a corrupt, ineffectual, and lazy police force who show up after the action has taken place, write a report about what they find, and then don't bother following up on anything. If they're a threat to your players at all, it's a sign that something out of the ordinary is going on; Maybe it's something unusual but mundane, such as a new guy taking control of the police department and trying to institute reforms to make his name, or maybe something else is going on behind the scenes, such as another vampire using their influence with the police in order to use them as a weapon against your characters.

Your enemies in Vampire aren't the police. They're the other vampires.
 
Vindictus said:
I think it should be kept in mind that the World of Darkness is not a direct analogue of our own. The police aren't going to be direct analogues either; The system is still broken, more broken than real life by any measure, but it's not broken in the same ways.

I'd expect police officers in a Vampire chronicle to be phoning it in, or even be completely subverted by the local Prince, along with most of the local political apparatus. There aren't going to be hard-boiled detectives digging into the mysterious local disappearances- Or, if there are, they'll be exceptions, who have a nasty tendency to disappear themselves before too long. They aren't going to look too closely at questionable figures, either, much less give chase should they run away.

The end result for a Vampire game is a corrupt, ineffectual, and lazy police force who show up after the action has taken place, write a report about what they find, and then don't bother following up on anything. If they're a threat to your players at all, it's a sign that something out of the ordinary is going on; Maybe it's something unusual but mundane, such as a new guy taking control of the police department and trying to institute reforms to make his name, or maybe something else is going on behind the scenes, such as another vampire using their influence with the police in order to use them as a weapon against your characters.

Your enemies in Vampire aren't the police. They're the other vampires.
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Ubless the cops have a werewolf, mage, or Changeling on the Force.

TBH i think both WoDs have the worst bad cops and the best good cops. They are either on one extreme or the other like in most horror movies
 
Vindictus said:
Your enemies in Vampire aren't the police. They're the other vampires.
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If local police forces are trigger happy lots of ways, unrelated to being a vampire, for getting yourself shot.

Vindictus said:
The end result for a Vampire game is a corrupt, ineffectual, and lazy police force who show up after the action has taken place, write a report about what they find, and then don't bother following up on anything.
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Corrupt police is rarely competent.
Corrupted law enforcement is usually lax on trigger discipline.
Doubly so wherever crime is rampant.
Triple so for a generally darker world.
Not always great for guys who stalk the darkness.
Isn't fatal but annoying when police murder you over misunderstandings.

Sydonai said:
Speaking of Cities;
Princess The Hopeful: Manila
It's mostly focused on Princess, but has some room for crossover.
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Without getting too political ongoing chaos in Manila would be good setting for World of Darkness game of any template?
 
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Generalissimo said:
Corrupt police is rarely competent.
Corrupted law enforcement is usually lax on trigger discipline.
Doubly so wherever crime is rampant.
Triple so for a generally darker world.
Not always great for guys who stalk the darkness.
Isn't fatal but annoying when police murder you over misunderstandings.
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This would be a bigger deal if police were actually stalking the darkness alongside the vampires, as opposed to carefully patrolling the handful of well lit highways and only briefly dabbling their toes into the shadow when they can't get away with avoiding it.

If the police are active and significant in a game, it should be because they are in the pocket of some local Vampire (Presumably the Prince) who is using them as a tool. Part of the theme of Vampire is that the Kindred are the power behind the scenes; Even if they don't have their fingers in everything, anything which will have an impact on the local nightlife is something which the Kindred will influence behind the scenes.

The local police is never going to be truly independent. The only question is whether the Kindred pulling the strings is using the police as a tool, or just making sure that they never stick their nose where it doesn't belong.
 
ManusDomine said:
Okay then, so let me get this straight:
Iteration X - Comptroller
New World Order and Panopticon - Director (Directorate in groups?)
Progenitors - Administrator (Administration in groups?)
Syndicate - Board Member
Void Engineer - Admiral (Admiralty in groups.)
Ragnarok Command - General
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Sort of. Syndicate board members tend to have their specialty management area listed. So something like "Vice President of Operations-North American Finance Andrew Kerrin" or the like.

The Progenitor leadership is the Administration, and thus its members are Administrators, although again, they often prefer to be called Professor if they have a teaching or research role.

EDIT: I forgot the Damage Control ranks, which are probably dependent on whether you want them to keep their police role or if they've gone full BLACKWATCH. If the latter, use NATO ranks as well. If the former, use British police ranks. In Panopticon at least they're at a huge crossroads there.
 
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Vindictus said:
This would be a bigger deal if police were actually stalking the darkness alongside the vampires, as opposed to carefully patrolling the handful of well lit highways and only briefly dabbling their toes into the shadow when they can't get away with avoiding it.

If the police are active and significant in a game, it should be because they are in the pocket of some local Vampire (Presumably the Prince) who is using them as a tool.
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All depends on theme and year of game.
So you're a coterie of black vampires running around 1950's downtown Los Angeles. . .
Not getting harassed by LAPD isn't going to happen.
You'd be most suspicious not getting harassed by LAPD.
 
Generalissimo said:
All depends on theme and year of game.
So you're a coterie of black vampires running around 1950's downtown Los Angeles. . .
Not getting harassed by LAPD isn't going to happen.
You'd be most suspicious not getting harassed by LAPD.
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The LAPD is obviously terrible because its strings are pulled by a particularly racist vampire who wants to get rid of the local black community. The PC coterie needs to get rid of him/her before he uses his resources to track them all down and kill them.

EDIT: I mean, this is a pretty absurd example, but it basically just gets back to the point of line supremacy; In a vampire game, your characters significant problems should be caused by another vampire behind the scenes. If there isn't another vampire, it shouldn't be a significant problem, because Vampires trump mortals.
 
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Vindictus said:
The LAPD is obviously terrible because its strings are pulled by a particularly racist vampire who wants to get rid of the local black community. The PC coterie needs to get rid of him/her before he uses his resources to track them all down and kill them.
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That's something to think about with a lot of stuff. I mean, some of the vampires in charge were probably/definitely around before women's suffrage was a thing, let alone blacks actually voting. Now, mind, my own stance is that it should definitely be possible to chance their minds on that. After all, if the comparison is to 'old people', than I'll note that on matters like gay marriage/etc, the very old have changed their mind.

That said, just because it's totally possible to play a vampire born in 1860 who has moved past any prejudices, or never had that many (exceptions exist in any era, after all), there should totally be racist and everything-ist vampires still running around being jerks.

Of course, there's always the question 'How much does being a vampire except you from certain things?' Does the racist vampire have an asterick where being a vampire means that the person gets a few freebie points that others of his skin tone wouldn't get?

Now, all of this could become an uncomfortable afterschool special, but it seems like it'd be something interesting to work with, and I think there's similar potential in the other splats as well.

Like, Changelings are supposed to be a support group, but ask white-only unions or feminist support groups that in the past have focused on a very small segment of people and their problems whether mutual suffering necessarily overrides other boundaries.
 
Vindictus said:
I think it should be kept in mind that the World of Darkness is not a direct analogue of our own. The police aren't going to be direct analogues either; The system is still broken, more broken than real life by any measure, but it's not broken in the same ways.

[...]

Your enemies in Vampire aren't the police. They're the other vampires.
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See, I disagree with some of this because it leads back to the "vampires walking around with flamethrowers in broad moonlight" kind of deal again.

The local police should not be subverted unless you make special effort to subvert them. If you just leave corpses hanging around on street corners drained of blood with obvious fang marks all over them you will attract attention from homicide and local reporters and the community. You need to be worried about humans and maintaining the masquerade. You can't just count on humans rolling over and being chumps.

If your Prince has subverted the local cops he has done so in a delicate balancing act where he is using a combination of normal corruption and supernatural influence to gain tenuous control over the masses. If your coterie starts making obvious supernatural trouble and killing a bunch of people he's going to stake you out in a field somewhere for fucking with his delicate give and take relationship.

Vampires may be your primary antagonists in vampire games but never forget they humans are your primary enemies and hiding from them and keeping them ignorant of your existence is the only thin keeping you from tasting Final Death.
 
Vindictus said:
The LAPD is obviously terrible because its strings are pulled by a particularly racist vampire who wants to get rid of the local black community. The PC coterie needs to get rid of him/her before he uses his resources to track them all down and kill them.
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Why blame supernatural for nasty things we humans can inflict on each other?
Mortals can be plenty racist by themselves.
Black Technocrats, Black Sin Eaters, and Black Changelings running around 1950's downtown Los Angeles after dark. . . .
. . . will certainly be 100% equally harassed by LAPD.
 
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The Laurent said:
That's something to think about with a lot of stuff. I mean, some of the vampires in charge were probably/definitely around before women's suffrage was a thing, let alone blacks actually voting. Now, mind, my own stance is that it should definitely be possible to chance their minds on that. After all, if the comparison is to 'old people', than I'll note that on matters like gay marriage/etc, the very old have changed their mind.

That said, just because it's totally possible to play a vampire born in 1860 who has moved past any prejudices, or never had that many (exceptions exist in any era, after all), there should totally be racist and everything-ist vampires still running around being jerks.
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Nah.

That's totally an advantage of the nWoD. Since your median vampire is younger than your median human and has a lower median life expectancy than if they stayed mortal, vampires are actually on average probably less racist than old people.

Of course, since vampires are terrible people the vampire elders are being super-racist to make up for it. And everyone else is just cringing while the Ordo Dracul masters are busy talking about how phrenology shows that negros are more stupid than superior aryans.
 
EarthScorpion said:
Nah.

That's totally an advantage of the nWoD. Since your median vampire is younger than your median human and has a lower median life expectancy than if they stayed mortal, vampires are actually on average probably less racist than old people.

Of course, since vampires are terrible people the vampire elders are being super-racist to make up for it. And everyone else is just cringing while the Ordo Dracul masters are busy talking about how phrenology shows that negros are more stupid than superior aryans.
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You can't argue with science, though! He has a graph and everything that shows his proof quite clearly!

Or are you one of those weird Lancea who take everything on faith instead of focusing on the hard facts of the matter?
 
The Laurent said:
You can't argue with science, though! He has a graph and everything that shows his proof quite clearly!
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Graphs and charts obviously prove anything!
Roomful of scholars try peer reviewing their pseudoscience!
Let's get Fringe Technocrat, Ordo Dracul Philosopher, Genius Inventor, Arcanum scholar, and Null Mysteriis researcher on a review board :whistle:
Science and Scholarship for Everyone!
 
The Laurent said:
Hmm. Well, if we grabbed a nWolf of the right type, we could have someone who says, "But according to the old stories" every other sentence.

And then some Technocrat would flip his lid every single time.
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I'm aiming for SCIENCE but with competing pseudoscientific babble.
Null Mysteriis guy is playing straight man here.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
Sort of. Syndicate board members tend to have their specialty management area listed. So something like "Vice President of Operations-North American Finance Andrew Kerrin" or the like.

The Progenitor leadership is the Administration, and thus its members are Administrators, although again, they often prefer to be called Professor if they have a teaching or research role.

EDIT: I forgot the Damage Control ranks, which are probably dependent on whether you want them to keep their police role or if they've gone full BLACKWATCH. If the latter, use NATO ranks as well. If the former, use British police ranks. In Panopticon at least they're at a huge crossroads there.
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Okay, this is helpful.

...Do I have the clearance to get to know the Technocracy's generalized ranks now? So I can implement stories about everyone getting confused because damnit I'm a Supervisor Financier of the Syndicate and she's a Senior Operative of the Syndicate, who the fuck is supposed to actually hold the reigns?
 
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The Laurent said:
Hmm. Well, if we grabbed a nWolf of the right type, we could have someone who says, "But according to the old stories" every other sentence.

And then some Technocrat would flip his lid every single time.
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On second thought armchair scholarship ought be completely fine.
So long as they're using sufficient academia babble!
 
Semi-evil thought for a vampire Prince with the second Ordo Coil of the Ascendent.

Imagine if they forced people in their presence to eat mortal food, and not blood. "Come, sit down and dine with me." And then they ate mortal food, and because the Prince has a 24/7 Blush, they're not throwing away Vitae doing it as the person is forced to use vitae to hang out in their company, so they keep their composure while their guests get hungrier and hungrier, humiliated and a little disgusted at just how bad human food tastes to them, while the Prince pretends he likes it and offers them seconds and 'Oh you have to try this, isn't it wonderful?'

It's the sort of passive-aggressive, pettily cruel little bullshit that vampires would so love.

As long as it's someone else suffering it.
 
Sydonai said:
Speaking of Cities;
Princess The Hopeful: Manila
It's mostly focused on Princess, but has some room for crossover.
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Generalissimo said:
Without getting too political ongoing chaos in Manila would be good setting for World of Darkness game of any template?
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As someone who actually lives in Manila, it would say that it depends on what splat and what kind of game you're looking for. I've sworn of Princess since there's too many conflicts and problems in it. And given the constant rain which creates floods during certain times of the year, you get a very depressing setting.

If we play Vampire, Masquerade orRequiem, the Invictus and Lancea reigns supreme. It would a stereotypical game of neophytes fighting against the control of the elders with the addition of massively corrupt government. Expect massive backstabbing politics and extra judicial killings. If you have Kindred of the East, good for you since you can add a major Kuei-Jin presence.

Old Mage would place you in one of the hottest and most active areas of the Ascension War, post-Avatar Storm. It would be a game of hardliner technocrats against hardliner traditionalists, with the PCs of either side maybe trying to be a moderating and progressive force and probably failing or are the face of progrom reinstitution. Then due to the massive religious schisms, regionalistic mentality, corrupt government, and human slvery and trafficking, you have the perfect breeding ground for Nephandus. On the flip side, the Children's Crusade is very active in the area, and a Children's Crusade Chronicle with Trads and Crats working together despite the hostility makes for an interesting story.

Werewolf Apocalypse would be the same as Old Mage in that its a hardliner game. Expect the wolves to be brutal and uncompromising due to the natural disasters made by human greed and negligence.

(Them super-typhoons that keep hitting us would probably maybe kinda be a paradox reaction due to something. I dunno...)

Mage Awakening would be a silent war with the Abyss and the Seers while finding lost secrets out in the boonies.

Good luck with Promethean.

Changeling the Lost would be something like Vampire with it's factional and regionalistic courts, all of which are in one way or another militant due to the massive open trods and highly active True Fae presence.

Wrath... need to read up again.

Geist... if you decide to play Geist despite shitty mechanics, then I welcome you a city with massive ghost presence.

I'd type more but I got to go to class. But yes, country is turning to shit, so deal with massive cosmic problems that are born from being in a shit country.
 
Kiriel said:
As someone who actually lives in Manila, it would say that it depends on what splat and what kind of game you're looking for.
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We'll try avoiding making light of your plight.

Kiriel said:
I've sworn of Princess since there's too many conflicts and problems in it. And given the constant rain which creates floods during certain times of the year, you get a very depressing setting.
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Game about hope in a hopeless place is wonderful if bleak *seeming* contradiction.
Like being a princes in occupied Singapore or something equally unpleasant.
 
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Vindictus said:
This would be a bigger deal if police were actually stalking the darkness alongside the vampires, as opposed to carefully patrolling the handful of well lit highways and only briefly dabbling their toes into the shadow when they can't get away with avoiding it.
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Cop: The Shootening

McClane - McClanes are married to the job, to the point that their actual marriages fall apart and their children refuse to speak to them. McClanes are known for their tenacity and resilience. Their powers allow them to keep fighting even after suffering extreme damage.

Riggs - Riggi are insane and suicidal. They have seen too much, lost too much, and no longer care if they live or die. Riggi have powers that give them bonuses to suicidally dangerous stunts and all them to escape certain death. The less they want to live, the easier it is for them to survive and thrive.

Murtagh - Murtaughs are too old for this shit. They're family men and women who have successfully built lives for themselves. They have loving spouses, children who adore them. If they were any other type of cop, they'd be sure to die. But there is something special about a Murtaugh, something that keeps him coming back against all reason. Murtaughs have powers that allow them to push back retirement indefinitely, and to negate three days to retirement and loving family penalties.

Harry - Harries are loose cannons who are tired of seeing punks get away with murder. Their powers allow them to perform unconventional interrogations, but the fruits of such torture are always thrown out in court. Harries are the only Cops who get access to the .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world.

Francisco - Franciscos aren't like other cops, there is something very different about them. They can be recognized by their bald heads, adorned with dark red or brown spots instead of hair. Franciscos are stronger and faster than any other type of cop and are immune to most toxins. Their unique biology allows them to adapt to practically any environment. They have one major weakness, salt water burns them like acid.
 
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