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White Wolf's World of Darkness

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Er... Mage: the Awakening's cosmology doesn't entirely work all that well with the Technocracy on several levels. I'd go into it but I don't have a lot of time right now. If you wanted the Technocracy in the cosmology of MtAw its going to require a fair about of work first.

In my own Worm/CWoD story, Orphans*, I have this idea that the Entities, Scion and Eden, recognize the Avatars of the various Willworkers as infants of their own kind. Whether or not they actually are is a whole other story. Curious, they came closer to Earth, discovering the inverted Avatars of the Nephandi. Thinking its some kind of sickness or defect that needs to be purged before it can endanger they begin to approach Earth setting off huge warning bells for the Technocracy, the Traditions and pretty any other power with eye in the Umbra. What ensued a colossal battle between the various groups of Willworkers and the Entities, ending with the death of Eden along with a lot of Willworkers and the kick off of the Avatar Storm.

*Yes, I will get back to it soon. Have a lot on my plate with school right now.
 
I am aware that many changes would be necessary to make everything fit. I am just trying to generate ideas about the combinations.

I tend to just mash things together and try to get them to fit. Yep.
 
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So then what is the cosmology of this world? What is the nature of Magic? How did Taylor join the Technocracy?
 
Currently I am just thinking of running a straight Awakening or Ascension quest now to keep things simple. I am mostly interested in teenage/young adult drama and mystical hijinks. Probably draw up some pregenerated Mortals and go from there.

Awakening is easier for me because I still have my books for it. Maybe throw in some other elements as time goes on but try not to start out too crazy. :)
 
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That would be better. Old and New Mage is a bit tougher to combine than some of the other lines.

I'm the opposite, I'm more knowledgeable about Ascension than Awakening so I can really help out with Ascension.

Have you checked out the M20 Quick Start PDF? It's free, gives a nice, basic rundown on Ascension and its Magic, and provides an interesting sample Orphan cabal. There's also Initiates of the Arts, a book all about young, newly-Awakened mages and the struggles they go through. Unfortunately, like much of the MtAs line its very much a mage book and doesn't really talk much about the Technocracy.
 
I am quite familiar with Ascension but I sold all my books for it a few years ago. Doh! I am actually very excited to get M20.
 
Awesome. Yea, I read the 2e dev blog alright. I guess I just need some tips on how to turn nMage into a quest. I haven't ran a quest before so I am not sure how to start. :)
 
So.

I'm looking for someone to help me get familiar with nWoD again -- I was a bit familiar with it for a while (played Bloodlines and rather enjoyed that). I'm planning to run a game oriented around a 1970s-1980s crime feel (Scarface, Goodfellas, Fear and Loathing, etc.) with the players being freshly sired (yet utterly oblivious to the greater whole of the vampiric world and the politics in it.) Would anyone be interested in helping me plan out/figure out the VtM system for a game set in 80s-era Vegas?
 
Well to start off with VtM is from the old World of Darkness, not the new. Vampire: the Requiem is the vampire line of the new World of Darkness. So which game are you running here?
 
AkatsukiL13 said:
Well to start off with VtM is from the old World of Darkness, not the new. Vampire: the Requiem is the vampire line of the new World of Darkness. So which game are you running here?
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Well sugar plums. I thought that VtM went with nWoD. I've got Hunter - The Vigil, Mage the Awakening, Promethean the Created... I have this nagging suspicion that I've been cobbling the two together on accident somehow. :p So let's go with oWoD in that case, perhaps? I'm not really sure what the huge differences are, to be honest.
 
Gunther said:
Well sugar plums. I thought that VtM went with nWoD. I've got Hunter - The Vigil, Mage the Awakening, Promethean the Created... I have this nagging suspicion that I've been cobbling the two together on accident somehow. :p So let's go with oWoD in that case, perhaps? I'm not really sure what the huge differences are, to be honest.
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Lets go with this as a starting point.

OWOD:

-Tries to create a metaplot across all the game lines
-Utilizes consensual reality if Mage is taken seriously
-Slightly more prone to sterotyping
-Conspiracies within conspiracies within conspiracies
-Makes Werewolves into radical environmentalists
-Has vestiges of Exalted floating around if you look deep enough
-Unless you're a technocrat, biased against science
-Vampires derived from Cain

NWOD:

-Goes for a toolbox approach while providing no metaplot
-Divorces Vampires from Christian sensibilities
-Doesn't make Werewolves fight Captain Planet villains, they are now the spirit world's border patrol
-Favors city scale plots over international conspiracy
-Less anti-science messages
-Fewer links to Exalted, if any
 
Conjured Blade said:
Lets go with this as a starting point.

OWOD:

-Tries to create a metaplot across all the game lines
-Utilizes consensual reality if Mage is taken seriously
-Slightly more prone to sterotyping
-Conspiracies within conspiracies within conspiracies
-Makes Werewolves into radical environmentalists
-Has vestiges of Exalted floating around if you look deep enough
-Unless you're a technocrat, biased against science
-Vampires derived from Cain

NWOD:

-Goes for a toolbox approach while providing no metaplot
-Divorces Vampires from Christian sensibilities
-Doesn't make Werewolves fight Captain Planet villains, they are now the spirit world's border patrol
-Favors city scale plots over international conspiracy
-Less anti-science messages
-Fewer links to Exalted, if any
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nWoD sounds more like my kibash, to be honest. I'll have to look into VtR in that case -- luckily I've got a whole slew of sourcebooks. Is there anyone who might be willing to help me get a bit up to speed on VtR's series of shenanigans verses VtM? I'm aware of the Masquerade, Antideluvians, things like that. It's just the broader "scale" I'm trying to figure out.
 
Sunder the Gold said:
*snicker*

...*snicker*

Ahem. I think you mean Judeo-Christian heterodoxy and apocrypha. Things which already removed from Christian sensibilities.
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Point taken. There's the Lancea Sanctum and their fixation with Longinus. And the whole 7 deadly sins vs 7 heavenly virtues thing from the pre GMC version. Sorry about that, and anything else I may have missed. Maybe "Does not outright link Vampire origin to Christianity" would be a better way of putting it?
 
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Gunther said:
nWoD sounds more like my kibash, to be honest. I'll have to look into VtR in that case -- luckily I've got a whole slew of sourcebooks. Is there anyone who might be willing to help me get a bit up to speed on VtR's series of shenanigans verses VtM? I'm aware of the Masquerade, Antideluvians, things like that. It's just the broader "scale" I'm trying to figure out.
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Well, for starters Antediluvians aren't a thing in Requiem. Elders exist, and do tend to dominate most political landscapes. However, they're vulnerable. The system (at least in 2e) is explicitly set up so that PCs get power beyond the average for their length of Requiem, so that they can shake things up.

VtM used the Generation system, where older vampires are more powerful simply by virtue of having fewer Sires and Grandsires between them and Cain. The only way to improve your generation is to commit diablerie on a lower gen Kindred. VtR uses a Blood Potency scale, which roughly maps to generation, with a few very key differences. First, it grows naturally over time. Every 50 years of activity increases your Blood Potency by 1, and you can spend Experiences to increase it faster. Second, it decays during Torpor, at a rate dependent on your Humanity and Blood Potency. Third, there are disadvantages to having high BP, with the biggest one being that you can only draw Vitae from other Kindred; the blood of the kine is no longer strong enough. When you consider the blood bond mechanics (feed too much from any given vampire, and you start quasi-falling in love), this a recipe for complications. A plot hook that I've seen before is a city's Prince/Bishop/Primogen/Sheriff/etc. is a BP 6+ elder, who's reached the third stage(essentially willing slavery) blood bond from a neonate. Shenanigans abound.

Masquerade used 13 clans, grouped into 3 alliances. In Requiem, there are 5 clans and 5 covenants, with no clan/covenant restrictions. A Gangrel can be any of the Invictus, Circle of the Crone, Ordo Dracul, Lancea et Sanctum, or Carthian Movement; not "oh you're a Gangrel? Well that means you're Camarilla".

As far as the usual shenanigans, most chronicles generally revolve around surviving and gaining power in the political sphere. The power level is more local, travel between different cities is difficult (usually requiring trustworthy ghouls), but by no means impossible or unheard-of. Then, if you want to shake things up, add a sprinkle of Strix.

The Strix got more of a focus in the 2e Core book (formerly Blood and Smoke: the Strix Chronicle), though they were first introduced in Requiem for Rome. Weird-ass Owl spirits, they're clearly related to the Kindred, often appearing as a cloud of blood, and can take control of a Vampire without their knowledge. The appearance (or even rumored appearance) of the Strix in a city is bound to cause massive political upheaval. Can the PCs ride the wave all the way to the top? And if so, can they hold it?
 
In VtR there is no definitive origin for vampires and as a result there is no Generation. Instead they have Blood Potency. As the decades and centuries go on for vampires their vitae becomes more potent and they become more powerful. There are drawbacks to this of course, the biggest being that what they can feed on becomes more restrictive. Blood Potency can be reduced through lengthy Torpor.

The number of Clans out there have been reduced to five but there tons and tons of Bloodlines out there and whole books dedicate to some of the Bloodlines out there. There are five main Sects, though there's a book out there that provides others that could be brought in, and they all function in more of a cold war state than the Camarilla-Sabbat conflict of VtM.

VtR is also the first NWoD line to get their update following the God-Machine Chronicles update, Blood and Smoke. Which just recently they've taken down as they've gotten the go ahead to do a full-blown VtR 2nd Ed which really is just going to be an update on Blood and Smoke.

I'd actually say pick up the two free Quick Start PDFs to get idea of what VtR is like. Also, do you have the World of Darkness Rulebook? If you do, don't worry about it but I've had to tell a few unknowing people over the years that you need the World of Darkness Rulebook as well as the particular gameline Rulebook.
 
AkatsukiL13 said:
In VtR there is no definitive origin for vampires and as a result there is no Generation. Instead they have Blood Potency. As the decades and centuries go on for vampires their vitae becomes more potent and they become more powerful. There are drawbacks to this of course, the biggest being that what they can feed on becomes more restrictive. Blood Potency can be reduced through lengthy Torpor.

The number of Clans out there have been reduced to five but there tons and tons of Bloodlines out there and whole books dedicate to some of the Bloodlines out there. There are five main Sects, though there's a book out there that provides others that could be brought in, and they all function in more of a cold war state than the Camarilla-Sabbat conflict of VtM.

VtR is also the first NWoD line to get their update following the God-Machine Chronicles update, Blood and Smoke. Which just recently they've taken down as they've gotten the go ahead to do a full-blown VtR 2nd Ed which really is just going to be an update on Blood and Smoke.

I'd actually say pick up the two free Quick Start PDFs to get idea of what VtR is like. Also, do you have the World of Darkness Rulebook? If you do, don't worry about it but I've had to tell a few unknowing people over the years that you need the World of Darkness Rulebook as well as the particular gameline Rulebook.
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If they're using first edition, they'll need the World of Darkness Core Rulebook. 2e is stand-alone.

Conjured Blade said:
Point taken. There's the Lancea Sanctum and their fixation with Longinus. And the whole 7 deadly sins vs 7 heavenly virtues thing from the pre GMC version. Sorry about that, and anything else I may have missed. Maybe "Does not outright link Vampire origin to Christianity" would be a better way of putting it?
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In Blood and Smoke, the Virtue/Vice system has been replaced with your Mask (what you show to the herd) and Dirge (what you show to the Kindred). Both can restore either 1 or all Willpower, depending on how hard you pursued it. And the consequences that resulted.
 
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Right now you can't get VtR Blood and Smoke. They took it down last month and it won't be available until they release the full VtR Blood and Smoke 2nd Ed.
 
AkatsukiL13 said:
Right now you can't get VtR Blood and Smoke. They took it down last month and it won't be available until they release the full VtR Blood and Smoke 2nd Ed.
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That's coming soon; I have an updated PDF sitting in my library. I'd say in a week or two the proper Second Edition should be out.

Additionally, the closest thing to a defined origin of Vampires in V:tR is in Requiem for Rome. Where Remus (the brother of Romulus) made a pact with the Strix as he lay dying by his brother's blade. His Childe then started the Camarilla, and that whole mess was kicked off. And even then, the Gangrel, Mekhet, Daeva and Nosferatu all seemed to already exist, just in different locations. So either Remus could make good time and was incredibly prolific and unstable, or only the Julii have a defined origin. Before they (probably) became the Ventrue.
 
GhanjRho said:
Well, for starters Antediluvians aren't a thing in Requiem. Elders exist, and do tend to dominate most political landscapes. However, they're vulnerable. The system (at least in 2e) is explicitly set up so that PCs get power beyond the average for their length of Requiem, so that they can shake things up.

VtM used the Generation system, where older vampires are more powerful simply by virtue of having fewer Sires and Grandsires between them and Cain. The only way to improve your generation is to commit diablerie on a lower gen Kindred. VtR uses a Blood Potency scale, which roughly maps to generation, with a few very key differences. First, it grows naturally over time. Every 50 years of activity increases your Blood Potency by 1, and you can spend Experiences to increase it faster. Second, it decays during Torpor, at a rate dependent on your Humanity and Blood Potency. Third, there are disadvantages to having high BP, with the biggest one being that you can only draw Vitae from other Kindred; the blood of the kine is no longer strong enough. When you consider the blood bond mechanics (feed too much from any given vampire, and you start quasi-falling in love), this a recipe for complications. A plot hook that I've seen before is a city's Prince/Bishop/Primogen/Sheriff/etc. is a BP 6+ elder, who's reached the third stage(essentially willing slavery) blood bond from a neonate. Shenanigans abound.

Masquerade used 13 clans, grouped into 3 alliances. In Requiem, there are 5 clans and 5 covenants, with no clan/covenant restrictions. A Gangrel can be any of the Invictus, Circle of the Crone, Ordo Dracul, Lancea et Sanctum, or Carthian Movement; not "oh you're a Gangrel? Well that means you're Camarilla".

As far as the usual shenanigans, most chronicles generally revolve around surviving and gaining power in the political sphere. The power level is more local, travel between different cities is difficult (usually requiring trustworthy ghouls), but by no means impossible or unheard-of. Then, if you want to shake things up, add a sprinkle of Strix.

The Strix got more of a focus in the 2e Core book (formerly Blood and Smoke: the Strix Chronicle), though they were first introduced in Requiem for Rome. Weird-ass Owl spirits, they're clearly related to the Kindred, often appearing as a cloud of blood, and can take control of a Vampire without their knowledge. The appearance (or even rumored appearance) of the Strix in a city is bound to cause massive political upheaval. Can the PCs ride the wave all the way to the top? And if so, can they hold it?
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Huh, wow. They really changed a lot. Still, I'm almost kinda saddened that the clans got pared down -- though five covenants to (I assume) compete with one another is also a nice way of encouraging conflict. I'm also a bit saddened that you can't get yourself viking promotions by draining your superiors dry and juicing up from their power. :p Klingon promotions = disabled!

Though the Strix sound odd. Vampire ghosts possessing people? :p

AkatsukiL13 said:
In VtR there is no definitive origin for vampires and as a result there is no Generation. Instead they have Blood Potency. As the decades and centuries go on for vampires their vitae becomes more potent and they become more powerful. There are drawbacks to this of course, the biggest being that what they can feed on becomes more restrictive. Blood Potency can be reduced through lengthy Torpor.

The number of Clans out there have been reduced to five but there tons and tons of Bloodlines out there and whole books dedicate to some of the Bloodlines out there. There are five main Sects, though there's a book out there that provides others that could be brought in, and they all function in more of a cold war state than the Camarilla-Sabbat conflict of VtM.

VtR is also the first NWoD line to get their update following the God-Machine Chronicles update, Blood and Smoke. Which just recently they've taken down as they've gotten the go ahead to do a full-blown VtR 2nd Ed which really is just going to be an update on Blood and Smoke.

I'd actually say pick up the two free Quick Start PDFs to get idea of what VtR is like. Also, do you have the World of Darkness Rulebook? If you do, don't worry about it but I've had to tell a few unknowing people over the years that you need the World of Darkness Rulebook as well as the particular gameline Rulebook.
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I do have the core rules, at least!

GhanjRho said:
That's coming soon; I have an updated PDF sitting in my library. I'd say in a week or two the proper Second Edition should be out.

Additionally, the closest thing to a defined origin of Vampires in V:tR is in Requiem for Rome. Where Remus (the brother of Romulus) made a pact with the Strix as he lay dying by his brother's blade. His Childe then started the Camarilla, and that whole mess was kicked off. And even then, the Gangrel, Mekhet, Daeva and Nosferatu all seemed to already exist, just in different locations. So either Remus could make good time and was incredibly prolific and unstable, or only the Julii have a defined origin. Before they (probably) became the Ventrue.
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Hmm. Definitely going to need to thumb through VtR more in-depth. Thankfully the game I have in mind won't go all that deep into the lore and the political spheres of influences, barring the players actively going that route. Still, the fluff of WoD has always been pretty neat to me, though obviously it's pretty thick and will require some dedication to get a handle on.

Thanks for the help so far, everyone!
 
Gunther said:
Huh, wow. They really changed a lot. Still, I'm almost kinda saddened that the clans got pared down -- though five covenants to (I assume) compete with one another is also a nice way of encouraging conflict. I'm also a bit saddened that you can't get yourself viking promotions by draining your superiors dry and juicing up from their power. :p Klingon promotions = disabled!
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You can still drain your fellow kindred dry for a power-up.
 
Idea that's been bouncing around in my head for a while, Is it possible to sire someone with blood from multiple vampires?
 
Oh and I forgot but you said you wanted to run a game set in the 80's, right? Well VtR has to covered. There's New Wave Requiem an 80's setting book for VtR. I've never touched it so I can't say how it is.

Carrnage said:
Idea that's been bouncing around in my head for a while, Is it possible to sire someone with blood from multiple vampires?
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I'm pretty sure it can't be done. The blood of the vampire with the highest Blood Potency/Lowest Generation takes hold over the others.
 
Has anyone ever created a possible future where one of the Traditions ended up on top instead of what became the Technocracy like the Dornian Heresy for 40k?
 
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