I for some reason thought of Ghostbusters the moment that came up.
White Wolf's World of Darkness
I for some reason thought of Ghostbusters the moment that came up.
From what I've heard they're basically a misguided attempt to make the Sons of Ether for the nWoD. What are their good parts?
It's funny because the Etherites are possibly doable in a way which makes them something other than a science cargo cult, that makes them more interesting. The Technocracy is proscriptive, it tells you what reality is and it wants you to conform to that. The Etherites are descriptive, they still want to quantify everything but they honestly don't care about shaping reality as much as describing and quantifying it in a way which is less hostile to Things They Don't Like. They want their 'science' to be apolitical, so they necessarily end up with a lot of broad pet theories that end up being accepted because people like them (since they sound cool or whatever), despite how the way the WoD works means that any paradigm has to say something about the world.
It also means that they start taking notes on why Cthulhu is eating your brains, instead of just doing the sensible thing and stopping people from reading the Necronomicon. This gets into the VA shtick but is that really a problem?
The Ghostbusters are an explicit inspiration for Genius, I think.
What I like about Genius is technomancy in a form that makes sense and seems fun, which I don't think I got from the Technocractic Order. Then again, I probably never read a TO book, so I don't know exactly how they tried to make Spheres fit with gadgets. Axioms and Wonders seem like the logical end-goal to me.
Answer: because the person who wrote those descriptions is - if my guess as to who it was is accurate - a Genius fanboy who actually likes its terrible mechanics, poor balance, and the fact it's one long whine about how nMage doesn't have the Sons of Ether.
Of course, the descriptions of other splats in those Stereotype bits in WoD books are pretty normally heavily misunderstood and often disparaging. That's some of the fun - they're usually totally unreliable. But they should always be weighted towards "Why we're better" (barring cases like 'Prometheans talking about Mortals').
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At least the Grace stereotype on Geniuses isn't complimentary, and gets a laugh out of me.
"Okay, if I convince them to apologize for mocking your work, THEN will you turn off the kill-bots? 'No'?! DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU WANT?"
"Okay, if I convince them to apologize for mocking your work, THEN will you turn off the kill-bots? 'No'?! DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU WANT?"
The reason that Princesses dislike Mages is the whole "This asshole reminds me of me" thing.
The successor of a lost empire from pre-history is a lot less special when a different faction is claiming to be the exact same thing, from a different empire no less.
The successor of a lost empire from pre-history is a lot less special when a different faction is claiming to be the exact same thing, from a different empire no less.
- Location
- https://discord.gg/z9tBvbh
I'm actually curious.
In a VTR versus PTH scenario, *notice, I am not asking you to give me a 'duel at midday' answer. I expect both factions to start out in the city, with the clear intent of running out of the city the opposite one, but not going at it the 'Derp' way of having Vampires face off directly the Princesses, or the Princesses acting like religious meat sacks.
Which of the two side has the advantage?
On one side, the Vampires can pretty much utilize their social skills during the night to get the Princesses entire family situation 'off' the grid, and 'find out' who they are with more ease than the opposite.
Or do the princesses have power to 'track down evil'?
In a VTR versus PTH scenario, *notice, I am not asking you to give me a 'duel at midday' answer. I expect both factions to start out in the city, with the clear intent of running out of the city the opposite one, but not going at it the 'Derp' way of having Vampires face off directly the Princesses, or the Princesses acting like religious meat sacks.
Which of the two side has the advantage?
On one side, the Vampires can pretty much utilize their social skills during the night to get the Princesses entire family situation 'off' the grid, and 'find out' who they are with more ease than the opposite.
Or do the princesses have power to 'track down evil'?
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
You know, I bet you could could make some interesting implications with this if the books had implied/stated that the old Princess/Mage empires used to be at war.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Don't be silly!
The super sparkly magical princesses would never go to war you silly duffy! The mages were their best friends and aided them in their desires to spread love, justice and cute puppies to everyone!
ckk185
Crazy Bunny Girl Scientist
- Location
- Port city
They are delicious.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
The Wyrm ate them
I already implied that. At least at one point, it mentioned that the Queen of Tears 'remembered the Dragon of old'.
Certain things, if you read between the lines, imply that the Kingdom was another pre-Fall kingdom and rival to the Awakened City. It remained loyal to the Old Gods even as the Awakened City invaded Heaven, kicked them out, and seized their thrones. And the Princesses, back in that time, may have been like the Timori - and that a potentially Enlightened soul which instead Awakens becomes a Banisher, feeling the pain of the world and knowing that it's the fault of magic.
Of course, if you really extrapolate between the lines, the Dark World is the remnants of the original timeline, before the Exarchs burned the original history from reality and replaced it with a new one. And so Alhambra is a left-over remnant of the old world, surviving in it by stealing real-ness from the Fallen World.
But of course, all of this was only implications and possibilities. If you didn't want it to be true, then it wasn't. Building things around an assumption of crossover is bad nWoD design.
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UrsaTempest
Don't Panic!
Uh... guys? If it's not too much to ask, anyone got link to Princess/Mage character's history? Any will do, but the one that concern first contact is preferable. I never managed to write one... thanks!
AkatsukiL13
An Enlightened Mind
- Location
- New Copernicus Station
Well, well, well... this is rather surprising but not only has W20 Book of the Wyrm gone public tonight but so has W20 Umbra: the Velvet Shadow which I hadn't even been aware was close to being finished. Only managed to do a quick skim of W20 Umbra and I got to say the artwork is beautiful, if surreal at times. Though I did notice to my annoyance in the Tribal Homelands section it talks about all Tribes' Umbral Homelands, including the lost Bunyip, Croatan and Silent Striders Homelands but when it comes to the White Howlers, it only describes what it looks like now as the BSD Homeland. Considering this comes on the heels of the White Howler Tribebook, it is a bit of a shame. I would have really loved to have that to add onto what we got from the TB.
- Location
- Italy
So what is your opinion on the God-Machine Chronicle Rules update? Good, bad, Unneccessary?
I ask because, after reading Broken Diamond and Soul Cage, I really feel like playing some Mage, but I'm not sure if I should use the 1st editon rules as they are, or update them to what is going to be the 2ed crunch.
I ask because, after reading Broken Diamond and Soul Cage, I really feel like playing some Mage, but I'm not sure if I should use the 1st editon rules as they are, or update them to what is going to be the 2ed crunch.
Eukie
Powered by furious Canadian redheads
Ranging from "bad" to "unnecessary" at best, written by people who are thematically blind and mechanically inept. The current lead writer for nMage 2e has a history of being unaware of how the game he was writing for worked, and is at best ignorant of the other games he's written for and at worst no concept whatsoever of 'balance'; his lineup includes Summoners and Blood Sorcery.
The GMC rules themselves include such brilliant gems as "putting status-effects on your character that doesn't actually do anything". The 2nd ed. nWoD gameline as a whole are written by the kind of people who consider it useful to have conditions (states of being) that are Conditions (status effects), but also Conditions that are not conditions, and status-effects that are not Conditions.
The rules are, as a whole, basically unnecessary; 1st ed. World of Darkness works perfectly fine and is a far smoother system than 2nd ed., and the problems that 1E has are not ones that 2E actually fixes, unless you have an irrational hatred for being judged by a morality-system that considers theft and murder sins, and feel that having to pick a vice among "greed, overindulgence, impatience, envy, rage, vanity, and anger-management issues" is an unnecessary imposition of Christian morality upon you.
There's some legitimate criticism in how the 1E Morality system implied that doing bad (mentally traumatizing) stuff meant you could end up Schizophrenic or the alike, but 2E basically throws the baby out with the bathwater.
I'm interested in more details please.
AkatsukiL13
An Enlightened Mind
- Location
- New Copernicus Station
Personally while I've never played GMC and B&S, I like their approach to morality more than in the 1st Ed. But I can see how it isn't for everyone.
Also good news for Wraith fans! We're one week away from the launch of the Wraith: the Oblivion 20th Anniversary Edition Kickstarter!
Also good news for Wraith fans! We're one week away from the launch of the Wraith: the Oblivion 20th Anniversary Edition Kickstarter!
- Location
- Italy
Thank you both, those rant's are both incredibly informative. So then, I guess it's going to be WoD 1st edition all the way.
I admit, just by reading the Condition section of the free rules update, I had thought to myself "this seems needlessly complicated, but maybe it's better in play?".
I haven't read anything of Dave Brookshaw outside of his APs, so I can't comment on the quality of the books you mentioned.
Anyway, my group and I, inbetween our current game (5ed D&D), have been discussing which game of the world of darkness to start off with.
I am the only one who owns the books outside of the 1st ed Core bluebook (here in Italy they are all hella rare), and despite my enthusiasm is principally for Mage, we also have discussed Werewolf.
Can anyone tell me anything about Forsaken, and what are it's strenghts and weak points?
I admit, just by reading the Condition section of the free rules update, I had thought to myself "this seems needlessly complicated, but maybe it's better in play?".
I haven't read anything of Dave Brookshaw outside of his APs, so I can't comment on the quality of the books you mentioned.
Anyway, my group and I, inbetween our current game (5ed D&D), have been discussing which game of the world of darkness to start off with.
I am the only one who owns the books outside of the 1st ed Core bluebook (here in Italy they are all hella rare), and despite my enthusiasm is principally for Mage, we also have discussed Werewolf.
Can anyone tell me anything about Forsaken, and what are it's strenghts and weak points?
AkatsukiL13
An Enlightened Mind
- Location
- New Copernicus Station
Probably even rarer now since Onyx Path has largely moved to a PDF and Print on Demand service through DriveThruRPG. In fact you can't buy their newest books in stores.
As for Werewolf: the Forsaken, what in particular would you like to know? There's plenty of material to talk about. The basic rundown is that during ancient, bygone age of Earth the spirit world and the material world were more closely connected, allowing spirits to wander back and forth between worlds. Unfortunately many of them only caused havoc in the material world. A powerful spirit known as Father Wolf was all that stood between them and the material world. He was a powerful hunter that track down wayward spirits and drive them back. He had a number of children with different spirits, among them being the first werewolves. They were children of Luna and beings of flesh and spirit, hunting alongside Father Wolf for many years. But then Father Wolf began to weaken, letting more and more spirits slip his grasp. Eventually some of the werewolves realized that this could not continue and that they had to put down and replace Father Wolf. Five werewolves decided to strike while three refused. They slew Father Wolf, causing two unexpected backlashes. First Father Wolf's dying howl separated the two world and creating the Gauntlet, the barrier between the spirit world and the material world. The second was that Luna cursed the werewolves with a weakness to silver, though as the truly fickle spirit she is afterwards she has aided her children.
And that's how they became the Forsaken. They still try to maintain the duty of dealing with spirits that manage to cross over into the material world and cause havoc but there's more spirits out there than there are werewolves and many of them still remember the age when werewolves hunted them and those grudges run deep. But some are willing to broker deals with packs and individuals.
Those three werewolves that refused founded the Pure Tribes, werewolf supremacists that don't care about humanity at all and hate the Forsaken for what their ancestors did. They're ruthless, monstrous, more powerful and more numerous than the Forsaken and basically seek the exact opposite of the Forsaken, wishing to create a world where they and the most powerful spirits rule over the world. Outside of spirits they're the biggest foe of the Forsaken.
The strengths and weaknesses of WtF are, in my eyes anyway, the same as the NWoD as a whole. Better mechanics than the Old World of Darkness, crossover-friendly, a more open, modular world, a greater emphasis on the local level. But at the same time I find it lacks the metaplot, inherent dynamism, greater scope and overall character of the OWoD.
Some of us would call the lack of the metaplot a plus . . .
AkatsukiL13
An Enlightened Mind
- Location
- New Copernicus Station
Some of us would call the lack of the metaplot a plus . . .
Not me. My first RPG was Vampire: the Masquerade and I love the Old World of Darkness. I do enjoy the NWoD I find that while it does a number of things better I just find the setting far less interesting.
Mortals were also capable of moving back and forth. The subtext is that humans would go to Hisil (the spirit world) to sleep (ie: die), and then walk right back into the physical world when it was time to wake up (ie: resume life). A seamless death/rebirth cycle without bothering with reincarnation.
Father Wolf also policed this, chasing humans into or out of whichever world they might be loitering too much.
The Firstborn are wolf spirits fathered by other spirits. Winter Wolf, Bone Wolf, Shadow Wolf, Red Wolf, Fenris Wolf, who would become the totems of the Forsaken werewolves who slew Father Wolf, and Dire Wolf, Rabid Wolf, and Silver Wolf, who would become the totems of the werewolves who refused (called the "Pure Tribes").
Luna did some weird business where she lay with Father Wolf in a physical human form, despite being a spirit herself. This is how werewolves are physical, spirit, human, wolf, and moon.
The Forsaken are called such because they are forsaken by the spirits of Hisil, who fear them as the descendants of the ones who would (and COULD) kill Father Wolf. It's also because the Forsaken took up the job of policing the spirits, which doesn't earn them any goodwill. Plus, the werewolves have always been these icky half-physical things, which doesn't sit well with most spirits in the first place. So, the Spirit World is not a safe place to be, for a Forsaken.
Werewolves of the Pure Tribes are somewhat more accepted by Spirits because the Pure work for the Spirits, trying to subjugate the physical world and humanity to Hisil. Which means the Spirit World is more hospitable to the Pure, which only makes it more inhospitable to the Forsaken.
It's less fickleness and more "What have I done?"
Seeing her children kill Father Wolf drove Luna mad with grief and rage, which is why she cursed them all (even the ones who didn't do it). But once she calmed down, she accepted that the werewolves did the right thing. For the courageous Forsaken, she gave a blessing that countered most of her curse.
Her blessing is denied to the Pure, descendants of those cowards who refused to do what needed be done, though her forgiveness is such that any Pure who becomes Forsaken will receive the blessing. (Naturally, a Forsaken who becomes "Pure" loses the protection.)
Which doesn't make a lick of sense. If the Pure outnumbered the Forsaken, even before counting the Forsaken's OTHER enemies, why the fuck are there still Forsaken left to play?
As with Earth Scorpion, I believe that one of the problems is that the Pure Tribes are more thoroughly detailed than the Forsaken Tribes... or rather, that the Forsaken Tribes should have been written as a SINGULAR Tribe of many intertwined colors. You're almost never going to see a player group choose to play a pack which all belongs to one Tribe, and it shouldn't be that much more common in the setting itself.
My other complaint is purely personal: I preferred Apocalypse's "War on the Wyrm" goal, rather than Forsaken's "hold your territory and keep your head down".
At least the War on the Wyrm had a victory condition which could possibly be accomplished before you died. With the Forsaken, all you're asked to manage is surviving day to day until you die, while maybe doing your best to keep the balance of Flesh and Spirit from going to hell.
That sounds much more exhausting to me than Princess: The Hopeful, which claims to follow "exhaustion" as a theme. But Hopeful has possible victory conditions: Destroying, sealing or saving Alhambra and putting an end to their raids. Rebuilding an old (or building a new) Queendom of Light. Finding that damned One True Heir the Mirror Queen is so obsessed over.
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