What about Twilight against Tirek? That seemed a little to "boom" to be anything but Tempesta.
White Wolf's World of Darkness
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
"This kingdom is OURS and we will NOT let the Darkness Have it. Once we get the rebellious colonies back on our side we will CANCEL THE APOCALYPSE"
All of Alhambra is all of Alhambra, apparently. Right down to the bedrock and spatial coordinates. The Queen of Tears refuses to give an inch to the Darkness, and won't consider saving as much as she can with an evacuation.
Nevermind the diminishing returns of making the Darkness outside their city bigger and bigger while the city itself gets smaller and smaller. Sunk cost fallacy is also at play.
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Oh, they've tried.
Unfortunately, that gives the Storm cults a target which can't retreat back to Alhambra when it gets discovered. And that ends in murder-Terminator-golems-controlled-by-insane-ghosts backed up by cells of fanatics trained to murder and kill in their dreams showing up to burn the place to the ground and salt the earth once they find where it is. Which is why they do periodically try to hide it better, but it's been largely viewed as a waste of resources.
Of course, there's now "young Turks" in the Alhambrans, who are going "Hey, there's way more Nobles around than historically there was. Maybe we can do it properly this time..."
Basically, one of a Radiant's jobs is to keep the Furies away from the Alhambrans and pointed at the Dark, while keeping the Alhambrans establishing footholds on Earth without letting them drain away the Light.
A task which the Heirs in the ranks can screw up at any time, assuming a Radiant herself doesn't mess it up.
Oh, and the Dark isn't idle either.
A task which the Heirs in the ranks can screw up at any time, assuming a Radiant herself doesn't mess it up.
Oh, and the Dark isn't idle either.
Nope.
A whole lot of the Radiant (especially the ones who've stabilised at Morality 3-5, like most WoD characters tend to) consider the Furies burning down an Alhambran outpost to be one of their redeeming virtues, for all that they're a bunch of crazed murderers who often make situations worse because - shockingly - a bunch of 'domestic terrorists' burning down an apartment block to purge the Tainted Place up on the 3rd floor aren't solving the root of the problem.
Tears draining operations make Tainted Places appear. Tainted Places mean that not only do Darkspawn break in from the Dark World, but normal people in the area get tainted and start turning slowly into Darkspawn. Taking out an Alhambran outpost quickly stops the world being made into a worse place. If you wait, people's lives are going to be ruined - and those fuckers are doing it on your turf, so you'll need to clean up the Tainted Places. For Radiant who find one, the way they usually have to do it is... well, breaking in and wrecking the magical items the Alhambrans are using to do it. And sometimes their exit, too.
Why, a lot of Radiant will tell you, would you bother to keep Storms away from the Alhambrans? A plague in both their houses. And if they're both weakened by the fight... well, so much the better.
Of course, Storms are little better [1].
For the relationships between Storms and the Radiant, they can theoretically operate in harmony in the same area. In practice, that tends to come to an end once the local Radiant object to things like "executing people who are tainted through no fault of their own" and "arson to burn down a tainted place, rather than resolving the problems which caused it to start in the first place", or because the local Storms members have decided that the Radiant are getting in the way.
[1] But it's so easy for a Radiant who's dealing with shit from the Alhambrans to slip into picking up a dot or two of Tempesta. It doesn't make them a follower of Storms, oh no. It just means your idealistic follower of Diamonds has got simmering rage underneath, that she's sick of shit from these fucking invaders who ruin her neighbourhood and hurt people and sometimes you have to act to stop it happening again no matter what.
My bad; "at present" for me is when I stopped watching the show. I haven't made the time to catch up on recent seasons.
Last thing I saw was Twilight's coronation, and even then I haven't seen episodes like Spike At Your Service.
Anyway, returning to the idea that the Radiant Princesses ought to form a single mottled society rather than regularly attend court in the Dreamlands with this or that Queen, what if being Courtless was actually the DEFAULT, and joining ANY Court was the deviation?
I also think that Calling shouldn't be the sole determiner of your Charm affinities. Either your Court should afford you affinities, or the player should be able to choose freely.
I prefer the second option, as it helps deprioritize membership a Radiant Court (compared to one's membership among the Radiant in general, and one's circle of friends in specific) AND it means that everyone can favor Fight Charms for a combat-oriented chronicle without everyone needing to be a Champion.
If the limit of three Charm affinities should remain unchanged...
Champions: Fight and Perfect
Grace: Connect and Bless
Mender: Restore and (Govern?)
Seeker: Learn and Appear
Troubadour: Inspire and (Shape?)
If Courts should provide Charm affinities...
Swords: Perfect
Hearts: Connect
Clubs: Restore
Diamonds: Learn
Spades: Appear
Chloe Sullivan
Subdefective
- Location
- 1630 Revello Drive, Sunnydale CA
So uhm, reading panopticon quest has got me interested in Mage... could anyone suggest which books to read to get a better idea of the setting?
Not the corebook.
Atlantis this, Atlantis that.
All on an "old parchment" backing and gold font.
The Broken Diamond. The Soul Cage. The Man Comes Around. Preferably in that order. (TVTropes links)
They're actual plays by DaveB, and are some of the best Mage stories I've read. They are Awakening, though, not Ascension.
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Quantumboost
Now with 50% more dots in Dimensional Science
- Location
- Ensemble Space
...um. I suspect Chloe means oMage, given she referenced Panopticon Quest.
The Revised corebook is good, though Traditions-focused. For the stuff not on Earth, Infinite Tapestry is a decent guide to he overall cosmology and the Astral Reaches. Guide to the Technocracy is basically the book for all the (immediately pre-1999) Conventions, though the more recent Convention Books are a much better picture of the world as they see it nowadays.
Mage 20th Anniversary Edition is supposed to come out fairly soon as well, IIRC. DriveThruRPG has the Quickstart up for free.
The Revised corebook is good, though Traditions-focused. For the stuff not on Earth, Infinite Tapestry is a decent guide to he overall cosmology and the Astral Reaches. Guide to the Technocracy is basically the book for all the (immediately pre-1999) Conventions, though the more recent Convention Books are a much better picture of the world as they see it nowadays.
Mage 20th Anniversary Edition is supposed to come out fairly soon as well, IIRC. DriveThruRPG has the Quickstart up for free.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
If I had to come up with a starting point, it would be something like this(Ones I haven't read, but thought about getting or heard good things about are asterisked).
By perceived importance:
1. Guide to the Technocracy/Mage the Ascension:Revised(Or the 20th Anniversary Edition if it's out)
2. Void Engineers: Revised
3. NWO: Revised
4. Progenitors: Revised*
5. Syndicate: Revised
6. Euthanatos: Revised
7. Sons of Ether: Revised*
8. Akashic Brotherhood: Revised*
9. Iteration X: Revised*(This was written before the revival)
10. Digital Web 3.0*(If it's out)
11. Infinite Tapestry*(For post Avatar Storm shenanigans from a traditionalist standpoint)
12. Beyond the Barriers: The book of worlds*(For pre Avatar Storm shenanigans from a traditionalist standpoint)
13. Technocracy: Void Engineers*(If you want material on pre Avatar Storm Void Engineer hardware)
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There is also a bit of a question what part you are interested in as the traditions often only deal with the Union when stuff has gone wrong or they are on the attack. As Tradition mages are more then happy to spend there time bickering with each other and being in there own little worlds. There is also a bit of a difference when you are playing as for example the whole problem with the even from 99' was part of Mage going from its second to its third edition . Prior to that it was a bit more.. Gonzo in a attack Zepelins versus flying saucers on titan way while the Union was more of a one note villian.
AkatsukiL13
An Enlightened Mind
- Location
- New Copernicus Station
As a MtAs fan I recommend starting with the M20 Quickstart.* Its free and it gives you all the basic rules of the game. Backers of the M20 Kickstarter will probably be getting their advance pdf copies before Christmas and will probably go on sale a month or so after that. So you might want to hold off on picking up the Rev or 2nd Ed Rulebook**.
But I would recommend Guide to the Technocracy and Guide to the Traditions as both explore their respective groups and provide a lot of useful information. Especially the former if you are interested in the Technocracy as its the rulebook for Technocrats, though you will still need a MtAs rulebook to actually play with it.
Rev Ed Tradition and Convention Books are likewise useful for expanding on the individual Traditions and Conventions though I would recommend first reading up a bit on these groups and then picking up those that interest you first and then later on picking up the rest. Also note that the Rev Ed CBs for the NWO, Progenitors, Syndicate and Void Engineers are a bit different from the rest because they were never written and released before WW originally ended the OWoD. Those four were developed recently and set in a universe where the beginning events of the Rev Ed happened but none of the later events that brought us to the Time of Judgement and the end of the line.
I would also recommend Initiates of the Arts, a book that explores newly Awakened mages and can be a bit easier to play for newcomers to MtAs as they can't do as much as the default level mages can. Also Forged by Dragon's Fire is great for the various magical items and devices various mages use and how to create them, something sorely lacking in the Rev Ed Rulebook.
If you're looking to explore the history of MtAs and the beginnings of the Ascension War, I highly recommend Mage: the Sorcerer's Crusade, a historical setting line set during the 1400's. Basically its MtAs during the Renaissance, when the Nine Traditions and the Order of Reason, the progenitors of the Technocracy, first came into being.
*Some of the Tradition names are changing in M20. The Akashic Brotherhood will become the Akashayana and the Sons of Ether will become the Society of Ether. But its just a name change, nothing else.
**Just to let you know events between the 2nd Ed and the Rev Ed dramatically changed things in the setting and it is a major source of tension between fans. M20's default setting is just before these metaplot events with options to use them.
But I would recommend Guide to the Technocracy and Guide to the Traditions as both explore their respective groups and provide a lot of useful information. Especially the former if you are interested in the Technocracy as its the rulebook for Technocrats, though you will still need a MtAs rulebook to actually play with it.
Rev Ed Tradition and Convention Books are likewise useful for expanding on the individual Traditions and Conventions though I would recommend first reading up a bit on these groups and then picking up those that interest you first and then later on picking up the rest. Also note that the Rev Ed CBs for the NWO, Progenitors, Syndicate and Void Engineers are a bit different from the rest because they were never written and released before WW originally ended the OWoD. Those four were developed recently and set in a universe where the beginning events of the Rev Ed happened but none of the later events that brought us to the Time of Judgement and the end of the line.
I would also recommend Initiates of the Arts, a book that explores newly Awakened mages and can be a bit easier to play for newcomers to MtAs as they can't do as much as the default level mages can. Also Forged by Dragon's Fire is great for the various magical items and devices various mages use and how to create them, something sorely lacking in the Rev Ed Rulebook.
If you're looking to explore the history of MtAs and the beginnings of the Ascension War, I highly recommend Mage: the Sorcerer's Crusade, a historical setting line set during the 1400's. Basically its MtAs during the Renaissance, when the Nine Traditions and the Order of Reason, the progenitors of the Technocracy, first came into being.
*Some of the Tradition names are changing in M20. The Akashic Brotherhood will become the Akashayana and the Sons of Ether will become the Society of Ether. But its just a name change, nothing else.
**Just to let you know events between the 2nd Ed and the Rev Ed dramatically changed things in the setting and it is a major source of tension between fans. M20's default setting is just before these metaplot events with options to use them.
Going back again to the "Forsaken Tribes / Radiant Courts" thing, how DO you design multiple Y-splats in such a way that they encourage mingling while remaining distinct?
Would the Firstborn Totems of the Forsaken (Winter Wolf, Fenris Wolf, Red Wolf, etc) and the Radiant Queens need to promote such cooperation themselves? Or should they remain so emblematic of their respective worldviews that they still cannot cooperate with each other, and the playerbase needs some particular advantage to counterbalance that?
For the Forsaken, there's Luna as a neutral figure. Perhaps she offered some form of gift that allows Forsaken werewolves the ability to choose one particular Tribe while also coloring it with the philosophies of another Tribe?
Would the Radiant Princesses thus need a sixth Radiant Queen? Perhaps someone recently ascended to her position, in the wake of the Radiant Queens releasing the Light to choose new princesses?
Would the Firstborn Totems of the Forsaken (Winter Wolf, Fenris Wolf, Red Wolf, etc) and the Radiant Queens need to promote such cooperation themselves? Or should they remain so emblematic of their respective worldviews that they still cannot cooperate with each other, and the playerbase needs some particular advantage to counterbalance that?
For the Forsaken, there's Luna as a neutral figure. Perhaps she offered some form of gift that allows Forsaken werewolves the ability to choose one particular Tribe while also coloring it with the philosophies of another Tribe?
Would the Radiant Princesses thus need a sixth Radiant Queen? Perhaps someone recently ascended to her position, in the wake of the Radiant Queens releasing the Light to choose new princesses?
Maybe play up the idea that the Firstborn Totems are part of the same pack, but being spirits, their natures make their working together difficult.
Since this conversation is back on, I've been reading up a bit on PtH, and I've been wondering: Why are Princess' stereotypes of Mages so disparaging, especially compared to Geniuses? I mean, sure, Mages are often a great big bag of dicks with no understanding of consequences, but Geniuses are completely nuts. And are often a great big bag of dicks with no understanding of consequences, that last one to a far greater degree than Mages.
The Mender's stereotypes, for example, say: "Mages: Give me one good reason you're not curing somebody's cancer right now, just one good reason." and "Mad Scientists: Do you want to talk about it? Of course I'm not calling you mad!" A Genius with the right dots can build a De-Cancering Ray that can be used to cure people of cancer and can be used by Sleepwalker equivalents, and can be mass produced, all without any Havok as long as they don't let anyone look too closely. A Mage tries to do that, and he gets smacked with paradox. And gets chewed out by the Guardians of the Veil. I mean, Mages get stereotypes like "Don't make me come over there.", "All that knowledge, all that power, and all they do is squander it.", and "Look at the puppet-masters, making society dance on strings to their tunes. Never let them catch you with scissors.". Meanwhile, Geniuses get stereotypes like "So, could you show me how to use that thing?", "Oh, don't mind us. We're just watching but um, can we like, be the beautiful lab assistants and shout "It's Alive!" or something?", and "You can't show them all with a death ray, there'd be no one left to be shown. It's a good thing I came along, clearly you need my help.".
Did the person who wrote the stereotypes just hate Mages for some reason?
The Mender's stereotypes, for example, say: "Mages: Give me one good reason you're not curing somebody's cancer right now, just one good reason." and "Mad Scientists: Do you want to talk about it? Of course I'm not calling you mad!" A Genius with the right dots can build a De-Cancering Ray that can be used to cure people of cancer and can be used by Sleepwalker equivalents, and can be mass produced, all without any Havok as long as they don't let anyone look too closely. A Mage tries to do that, and he gets smacked with paradox. And gets chewed out by the Guardians of the Veil. I mean, Mages get stereotypes like "Don't make me come over there.", "All that knowledge, all that power, and all they do is squander it.", and "Look at the puppet-masters, making society dance on strings to their tunes. Never let them catch you with scissors.". Meanwhile, Geniuses get stereotypes like "So, could you show me how to use that thing?", "Oh, don't mind us. We're just watching but um, can we like, be the beautiful lab assistants and shout "It's Alive!" or something?", and "You can't show them all with a death ray, there'd be no one left to be shown. It's a good thing I came along, clearly you need my help.".
Did the person who wrote the stereotypes just hate Mages for some reason?
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Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
Point of order: By canon, no, a Genius can't mass-produce a cancer-curing ray for use by normals. At best they can make a batch of such rays for use by Beholden, if they have enough dots in Assembly Line.
Remember, Wonders always cost Mania, and Havoc checks occur when a mortal touches, picks up or interacts with a Wonder, not just tries to examine it.
That said, the point does sort of stand; There's nothing stopping a Genius who does have several dots in Assembly Line from cranking out cancer cures with In Pill Form.
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Right, sorry, yes, that's what I meant. Not produce thousands of rays, but produce a few dozen for use by his Beholden and other minions.
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The stereotypes between the Callings themselves include a number of strangely negative opinions which would encourage divisiveness between players rather than the appropriate respect and cooperation.
What I'm saying is that you should take them as a mixed bag.
Ironically, the werewolves have the easier time mingling with each other than the magical girls seem to. Because the Forsaken book isn't written with suggestions that Storm Lords will naturally want to enter the Spirit World to hobnob with Winter Wolf and his children and other Storm Lords. The book is instead written with the concrete idea that the Forsaken will spend as much time on Earth with each other as possible, forming packs of convenience with any other Forsaken around regardless of Tribe.
Princess doesn't have that focus.
Which is doubly ironic, given that mixing Y-splats is not just easier for the Hopeful than the Forsaken, but that it is possible at all. You don't need to join a different Court (or any Court!) to gain dots in its Invocation or to learn Charms based upon that Invocation.
Yet because of the creeping focus on "go to the Dreaming Lands to attend court with your Queen and other Princesses of the same Court", the Y-splat in Princess actually becomes more divisive than Tribes are for the Forsaken.
It's nuts.
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Revlid
blob of bugs
- Location
- England
More likely they had a hard-on for Genius. Not rare, for all it baffles me. As a splat, they're a misplaced oWoD Mage faction, over-focused on lol pulp. It wouldn't surprise me if the kind of person who felt the need to include them in another fansplat would also want their princesses to be buddies with their cool awesumpunk gadgeteers, and together they fight crime el oh el.