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The Second Reconstruction-A Post-Civil War Kaiserreich USA Quest

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[X] The Monroe Doctrine must be upheld. Denounce the coup and deploy the US Navy to cut off Carlés support.
[X] The neutrality of the Legation Cities and our interests must be protected. Send the troops!
[X] Pass the tariffs. We need the money and domestic support from this.
 
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  • Voting
    • Some spicy results this turn! I'll try to write the update tomorrow but it will likely be a big one so I probably won't be it done. I have a busy Wednesday and Thursday so expect the update on Friday as the most likely time.
    Scheduled vote count started by Jeeshadow on Dec 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM, finished with 45 posts and 42 votes.
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  • Voting
    • We will show the world that the American giant wakes once more! Surely there is no possible way such an aggressive foreign policy can go wrong!

    When Canada tries to take New England during the civil war, we can just respond by conquering Canada!
     
    So I have no be thing to ask guys?

    Are we going the MacArthur route?

    Or are we saving the republic no matter what?
     
    Magoose said:
    So I have no be thing to ask guys?

    Are we going the MacArthur route?

    Or are we saving the republic no matter what?
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    Depends on how hard mode everyone wants to be at maintaining American democracy and it's ideals.

    There's the

    Federal Route : Easy. Just have to pick a president. US will take it's role as global superpower eventually, just in the Kaiserreich universe.

    American Cincinnatus : Hard but the most interesting, at least for me. MacArthur establishes a dangerous precedent by couping the White House. Traditional American democracy gets tested for the quests duration.

    American Caesar route : Ultra-hard. Full on military junta. What form American democracy takes in this situation is going to be minimal, nonexistent or unrecognizable.

    I like the American Cincinnatus route just because it provides the most tension and drama. American Caesar is okay, but not interesting to me at least narratively. The 'normal' American democracy is fine as well but this is Kaiserreich, I want to see some weird shit.
     
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    the option to improve the army's armored tactics or infantry equipment or the navy's basic ability to fight or even maneuver wasn't taken yet both were deployed against two battle-hardened great powers in aggressive negotiations. A peacetime military force of a country historically abhorrent (at this time) of a professional standing army that never fought WW1 has been deployed on two fronts against highly militant, experienced and victorious powers.

    If it did come down to the dice as it was implied, I hope they're generous.

    E: if we get dumpstered on both fronts at the same time a more hardline stance against Canada is taken we're gonna have a very interesting time.
     
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    aeiou! said:
    the option to improve the army's armored tactics or infantry equipment or the navy's basic ability to fight or even maneuver wasn't taken yet both were deployed against two battle-hardened great powers in aggressive negotiations. A peacetime military force of a country historically abhorrent (at this time) of a professional standing army that never fought WW1 has been deployed on two fronts against highly militant, experienced and victorious powers.

    If it did come down to the dice as it was implied, I hope they're generous.

    E: if we get dumpstered on both fronts at the same time a more hardline stance against Canada is taken we're gonna have a very interesting time.
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    Planes would apply to both I would think. At least for the china one.


    Edit: all hail Caesar, baby. That sounds fun as hell.
     
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    Ghostdevil said:
    Planes would apply to both I would think. At least for the china one.


    Edit: all hail Caesar, baby. That sounds fun as hell.
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    "[ ] Put in a new order of aircraft in order to expand the US Army Air Corps along with its pool of pilots."

    Text is bereft of any mention of the fleet air arm. This is purely an army initiative.

    If early WW2 era planes, with all the limitations and inaccuracy they have, somehow apply to a showing the flag operation in a geographically small, dense urban environment we'd be even more screwed because the IJN (via carrier) and the IJAAF (via Taiwan(?)) can muster more aircraft in the region than what we likely have put together. At a minimum, they have way more airbases, ground or floating, in the region than we do…
    And the USN is split with great power competition against the Germans.
    …worse case scenario, in antagonizing both Germany and Japan, both are free to stop posturing against each other and focus down America, except this sleeping giant doesn't have any real allies on the global stage to act as meatshield and is doped up on turbo recession.

    I really, really hope the dice come through with surprise major unrest and/or an offer for quid pro quo from either side, because under logical circumstances we've grossly overextended ourselves while levying tarrifs on a country with both a fleet and potentially mutual interest that could've buttressed our operations by seemingly thinking with an American mindset not of Kaiserreich.

    Cyberphilosipher said:
    Hypothetically...what happens if we roll a 1 to 25?
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    Possible combination of humiliating ourselves abroad for no gain twice at the same time, getting into and losing a colonial war over far-flung territories that will not inspire the same ferocity and tenacity as Pearl Harbor x literal Nazis on a different, stronger, more confident America not facing off against America-First populists and anti-imperialist socialists visibly on the way to recovery, and sapping confidence in American government at a time it badly, desperately needs it. The sort of thing that could justify New England going AWOL to Canada for protection and comes closer to getting the Pacific States somehow turning an easily winnable civil war into a quagmire. But I am not the QM.
     
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    aeiou! said:
    "[ ] Put in a new order of aircraft in order to expand the US Army Air Corps along with its pool of pilots."

    Text is bereft of any mention of the fleet air arm. This is purely an army initiative.

    If early WW2 era planes, with all the limitations and inaccuracy they have, somehow apply to a showing the flag operation in a geographically small, dense urban environment we'd be even more screwed because the IJN (via carrier) and the IJAAF (via Taiwan(?)) can muster more aircraft in the region than what we likely have put together. At a minimum, they have way more airbases, ground or floating, in the region than we do…
    And the USN is split with great power competition against the Germans.
    …worse case scenario, in antagonizing both Germany and Japan, both are free to stop posturing against each other and focus down America, except this sleeping giant doesn't have any real allies on the global stage to act as meatshield and is doped up on turbo recession.

    I really, really hope the dice come through with surprise major unrest and/or an offer for quid pro quo from either side, because under logical circumstances we've grossly overextended ourselves while levying tarrifs on a country with both a fleet and potentially mutual interest that could've buttressed our operations by seemingly thinking with an American mindset not of Kaiserreich.


    Possible combination of humiliating ourselves abroad for no gain twice at the same time, getting into and losing a colonial war over far-flung territories that will not inspire the same ferocity and tenacity as Pearl Harbor x literal Nazis on a different, stronger, more confident America not facing off against America-First populists and anti-imperialist socialists visibly on the way to recovery, and sapping confidence in American government at a time it badly, desperately needs it. The sort of thing that could justify New England going AWOL to Canada for protection and comes closer to getting the Pacific States somehow turning an easily winnable civil war into a quagmire. But I am not the QM.
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    If the qm is approaching this with any realism, germany isnt going to do jack, the logistics of trying to defeat even a super weak US via Navy is absurdly massive and expensive. Japan is the bigger factor than Germany.
     
    We are gonna enter a different kind of vote with this coming update so I was wondering if people prefer more guided votes where you pick from options I lay out or would you like some votes where you come up with like a 4 point plan?
     
    Jeeshadow said:
    We are gonna enter a different kind of vote with this coming update so I was wondering if people prefer more guided votes where you pick from options I lay out or would you like some votes where you come up with like a 4 point plan?
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    I'd like an Election Campaign mini-quest with planks and stuff, please!

    Edit: to elaborate, I think we can do this with a choice tree system that gives us different options to address voters' concerns.

    Edit 2: or make false promises to address those concerns, as the case may be; we are politicians, after all.
    :p
     
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    Ghostdevil said:
    If the qm is approaching this with any realism, germany isnt going to do jack, the logistics of trying to defeat even a super weak US via Navy is absurdly massive and expensive. Japan is the bigger factor than Germany.
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    If the qm is approaching this with any realism and with an appropriate dice result, Imperial Germany can use its fleet, the largest and one of the most advanced navies in the world that outfoxed the British Royal Navy backed with a well established global logistics system from Vietnam to Mittelafrika and a vast sum of defense spending to run roughshod against a undersupplied, green USN dearth of funding for roughly a decade that didn't bother improving its forces or expanding its power projection capabilities and put suddenly arrogant Americans, who are very conveniently also picking a fight with Japan while levying punative tariffs against the entente (the one other factor with a aging but significant naval arm that could've tipped the scales), back in the isolationist, recessionist island it belongs.

    Your definition of defeat leaves plenty of interpretation and isn't backed up by any facts or logical argument, but that there are in fact many ways in which Germany can in fact come on top in this skirmish without insurmountable logistical or even budgetary concerns; whether it be outfighting or overpowering the USN, deploying so many ships so frequently that the USN's ancient logistical system breaks down, or even by calling our divided and unstable country's bluff and sabre rattling until we embarrass ourselves or commit to a naval war, which we may lose. It will absolutely cost Germany, it will also absolutely not matter. The only remaining naval concern for Germany now is the UOB and Syndicalist France, who are still gearing up for war, do not have global power projection capabilities, and are within range of Germany's Luftwaffe (and in the case of France, the Heer).
     
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    aeiou! said:
    If the qm is approaching this with any realism and with an appropriate dice result, Imperial Germany can use its fleet, the largest and one of the most advanced navies in the world that outfoxed the British Royal Navy backed with a well established global logistics system from Vietnam to Mittelafrika and a vast sum of defense spending to run roughshod against a undersupplied, green USN dearth of funding that didn't bother improving its forces or expanding its power projection capabilities and put suddenly arrogant Americans, who are very conveniently also picking a fight with Japan while levying punative tariffs against the entente (the one other factor with a significant naval arm that could've tipped the scales), back in the isolationist, recessionist island it belongs.

    Your definition of defeat leaves plenty of interpretation and isn't backed up by any facts or logical argument, but that there are in fact many ways in which Germany can in factcome on top in this skirmish without insurmountable logistical or even budgetary concerns; whether it be outfighting or overpowering the USN, deploying so many ships so frequently that the USN's ancient logistical system breaks down, or even by calling our divided and unstable country's bluff and sabre rattling until we embarrass ourselves or commit to a naval war, which we may lose.
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    This is the weirdest strawman i've seen in awhile, I didn't say they COULDN'T get over to the US and defeat America, i said it'd be a massive logistical hurdle and extremely expensive for very little actual gain. On top of the fact that Black Monday will be happening pretty soon (not that this would factor in the decision obviously), it just wouldn't be worth the hassle.

    Also, Those places would be vastly underdeveloped. They JUST got those colonies a short time ago in the time line, unless theres something i am missing, there really isn't any reason why there would be significant naval bases there.

    Edit: Basically its unlikely Germany would actually bother sending a significant naval fleet, and more that they might send enough to force us to back down if they even cared enough.
     
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    Ghostdevil said:
    This is the weirdest strawman i've seen in awhile, I didn't say they COULDN'T get over to the US and defeat America, i said it'd be a massive logistical hurdle and extremely expensive for very little actual gain. On top of the fact that Black Monday will be happening pretty soon (not that this would factor in the decision obviously), it just wouldn't be worth the hassle.

    Also, Those places would be vastly underdeveloped. They JUST got those colonies a short time ago in the time line, unless theres something i am missing, there really isn't any reason why there would be significant naval bases there.

    Edit: Basically its unlikely Germany would actually bother sending a significant naval fleet, and more that they might send enough to force us to back down if they even cared enough.
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    Thank you for actually explaining what you mean beyond your initial message. It also doesn't change my argument as budgetary and logistical concerns were addressed in the bottom second half of the quoted paragraph, doesn't acknowledge the political realities both the Kaiserreich and America face in regards to brinksmanship and was accounted for.

    The "vastly underdeveloped" colonies include the Singapore (explicitly overhauled 1928) and Malayan naval bases, in addition to all the other facilities the British Empire held in Africa, from the Suez Canal to the minor facilities that once composed Africa. It's been a long while since I've played Kaiserreich, but Germany does in fact have naval bases already in operation in Mittelafrika that get further expanded through focus tree. Naval logistics stations can and have been easily built within the timeframe said colonies were acquired. And given the significant sums of money flowing into the fleet and the need to compete against fellow great powers-fellow great powers we have now antagonized or alienated-it would be trivial to assume that they have appropriate support ships to sustain multiple extended deployments.

    Germany prior to Black Monday is noted for runaway military spending, is a global superpower with global colonial ambitions, and still has frosty relations with the Entente, who still represent a significant naval power; they have plenty of reasons and the means to build and expand naval bases across their colonial empire-and, for our relevant great power sabre-rattling in Africa.
     
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    For my part, I expect Germany to call our bluff and do some saber rattling of their own, for the simple reason that they are the world hegemon now and they'll have to save face somehow.

    And now for something completely different.
    I ask that other players give input to our QM on how to run the election campaign thing, please. This is the comment I mean:
    Jeeshadow said:
    We are gonna enter a different kind of vote with this coming update so I was wondering if people prefer more guided votes where you pick from options I lay out or would you like some votes where you come up with like a 4 point plan?
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    Baltika9 said:
    For my part, I expect Germany to call our bluff and do some saber rattling of their own, for the simple reason that they are the world hegemon now and they'll have to save face somehow.

    And now for something completely different.
    I ask that other players give input to our QM on how to run the election campaign thing, please. This is the comment I mean:
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    Is it an election thing? All he says is he needs a four point plan and its a different kind of vote.
     
    Ghostdevil said:
    Is it an election thing? All he says is he needs a four point plan and its a different kind of vote.
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    Yep, its an election thing. The plan is to have you all figure out the general strategy of the Olson campaign. The question I have is if you would like to make a plan or I give you specific issues and you choose from a list of possible stances on them. I am leaning towards the latter at the moment.
     
    Jeeshadow said:
    Yep, its an election thing. The plan is to have you all figure out the general strategy of the Olson campaign. The question I have is if you would like to make a plan or I give you specific issues and you choose from a list of possible stances on them. I am leaning towards the latter at the moment.
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    Making a plan sounds good, we can undercut the Not!Socialists by promising and applying quite a bit of welfare capitalism and job programs,
     
    Jeeshadow said:
    Yep, its an election thing. The plan is to have you all figure out the general strategy of the Olson campaign. The question I have is if you would like to make a plan or I give you specific issues and you choose from a list of possible stances on them. I am leaning towards the latter at the moment.
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    I always prefer free votes to plans but in this case it is doubly suitable as a politician's specialty is speaking out with both sides of their mouth.
     
    Well ACTUALLY, Social Democracy is where i want to go IF we stay pure Federal
    If were going Caesar route (as i said before) then fuck that and go FULL FUCKING Force on the... Well i won't say evil, since going evil is pointless for an ambitious person like Douglas MacArthur.
    But less progressive i guess you could say.
     
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