@Physici When should we make another map? I can make the map is no one else is willing to do it.
The American Experiment (Riot Quest)
- Thread starter Physici
- Start date
- Alt. History
Zimmerwald1915
Revolutionary Defeatist
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Map will be updated with the war turn.
Thank you.
KnightDisciple
Brotherhood. Unity. Peace.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
After some thought and consideration, I'm going to be bowing out of this. I haven't felt anywhere close to satisfied with the results of most of the actions of The Orange Disciples for a long time, and bluntly it's not because of "bad rolls". It's mostly just felt...well, pointless. It doesn't feel like we've done much, and it doesn't feel like we'll get to do much. This is pretty clearly a fantastical romp for people who like the idea of a forceful socialist revolution, and while at the beginning I had hopes of providing a moderating, less forceful voice that was based in real people and movements from the time period, it frankly seems like a fool's errand at this point.
I won't speak absolutely for @Lightwhispers , the only other person on the group, but I believe they feel similarly.
I'm not even going to provide "autopilot" instructions. Do what you will, @Physici , and/or the collective thread. I just....I don't care anymore.
I won't speak absolutely for @Lightwhispers , the only other person on the group, but I believe they feel similarly.
I'm not even going to provide "autopilot" instructions. Do what you will, @Physici , and/or the collective thread. I just....I don't care anymore.
It's okay man. Somethings aren't for everyone, but thank you for your constructive criticism before you leave. Have a great day, and I hope you find the story/quest you want.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Ultimately speaking, this is a quest, not a GSRP, and so user votes mattered more than dice rolls, and TOD was consistently decisively outvoted by the pro-revolution groups by an order of magnitude. Still, I'd say they certainly accomplished things: they make Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New York adopt progressive laws far ahead of OTL, including women's suffrage for Ohio, they established universities and primary schools to help southern literacy and education faster than OTL, they were a major component of the Spanish-American War pacifist movement, they were a decisive voice in watering down this timeline's Sedition Act, they were a decisive voice in stopping the Chinese Exclusion Act, and helped fight White Supremacy in the south through public opinion.
All that said, leaving a quest when it turns a different way than you'd prefer is perfectly valid. I'd advise anyone against getting too invested in a quest going a particular direction, as it is a group decision. From the start I expected old orgs to fall apart and new orgs to be made on a pretty regular basis.
Ramble
[Verified 'Murican]
- Location
- America
I think in the event of a death, it would be best to have the rep designate a second/substitute to act in case of death, incapacitation or for whatever other reason. (Eg bereavement leave, compassionate care, medically enforced downtime).
Last edited:
Zimmerwald1915
Revolutionary Defeatist
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Why? A mandate to represent the people isn't a piece of private property subject to inheritance. It ought to be delegated solely by the people.
Ramble
[Verified 'Murican]
- Location
- America
Basically
Well I mean obviously you'd have both names on the ticket, but by the very nature of fair elections, you're going to get an unelected candidate representing their constituents for the interim. Either the Representative's chosen second or the party coming down from on high and declaring a name. The alternative is that they have no representative in the interim, and until the election is conducted, that district can sit and spin.
Unless you go with congressional business being suspended until the election, but with 3000+ reps, having a bus factor of 0 sends to me like a fantastic way to get nothing done.
Great for if you want a degenerated workers state, after all it's not actually doing anything so nobody will miss it, terrible for actually turning tax dollars into policy.
Last edited:
- Location
- France
- Pronouns
- She/They
You could explicitly put the sub on the ballot.
Running single member special elections in a SNTV system is just ass honestly. If we wanted this to work we shouldn't have chosen that (sorry I missed that vote).
Non American countries have zero issues organizing elections on short notice. I don't think that part should be especially hard, though I also wouldn't bother freezing the assembly over it.
Last edited:
Zimmerwald1915
Revolutionary Defeatist
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
The districts are multi-member, not single-member, so no part of the people is going unrepresented at any point unless all of a district's delegates manage to absent themselves at once (setting aside whether it is correct to say that a district's delegates represent only the people of the district and not the country as a whole when considered as part of the Congress). It ought to be both trivial logistically and inoffensive on principle to organize a by-election for a substitute in a matter of weeks in the event of either a delegate's death, incapacity, resignation, or recall.
Nobody has mooted a plenary rule for the Congress, stop tilting at windmills.
Or, if you're determined not to hold by-elections for replacement delegates, run down the list of candidates in the previous election til you reach the most popular one who was not elected.
A single-member election under SNTV is basically FPTP, true, but: 1) by-elections are probably going to be rare enough not to matter very much; 2) general elections are frequent enough for delegations to turn over in any event; and 3) the SLP believes by-elections favor them more than other methods of selecting substitutes, and I'm inclined both to believe them and to throw them a bone.
Last edited:
- Location
- France
- Pronouns
- She/They
For recalls, I agree with the SLP position, and not just because it favours them. It's much easier to send a message to the assembly if you're electing a fresh candidate to carry it to them. There probably need to be safeguards against the dominant party just chaining recalls to turn SNTV into FPTP every election but as a mechanism of expressing the people's views outside of election cycles, it's probably good.
I think substitution for non political reasons is a bit different though. If a candidate dies, running down the list is very likely to replace them by someone from another party, and a by election to replace them by one of the dominant party, and that without any real local objection to this candidate as part of the SNTV ballot.
I wouldn't mind a compromise of substitutes for non recall reasons and by elections for recalls.
Zimmerwald1915
Revolutionary Defeatist
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[x][initiative] Indirect Initiative
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
The thresholds for local recalls, initiatives, and referenda are set as low as possible to hold the threat of recall over the heads of delegates who don't vote for what appear to be popular initiatives. The restriction on amendments is to prevent popular initiatives from being watered down in the legislature--to the extent laws need to be changed due to popular initiatives, the existing laws can be changed to fit the new rather than the other way around. All of which is to permit the use of the indirect initiative, which functions to minimize the frequency and expense of referenda by permitting the legislature to vote up popular initiatives. Single-seat by-elections benefit well-organized parties, and, the revolution having thrown the Republican and Democratic parties into disarray, the Socialist party is best positioned to take advantage of this (as seen by the opinion modifiers).
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
The thresholds for local recalls, initiatives, and referenda are set as low as possible to hold the threat of recall over the heads of delegates who don't vote for what appear to be popular initiatives. The restriction on amendments is to prevent popular initiatives from being watered down in the legislature--to the extent laws need to be changed due to popular initiatives, the existing laws can be changed to fit the new rather than the other way around. All of which is to permit the use of the indirect initiative, which functions to minimize the frequency and expense of referenda by permitting the legislature to vote up popular initiatives. Single-seat by-elections benefit well-organized parties, and, the revolution having thrown the Republican and Democratic parties into disarray, the Socialist party is best positioned to take advantage of this (as seen by the opinion modifiers).
mcclay
Some kinda Commie
- Location
- Reno
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[x][initiative] Indirect Initiative
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
- Location
- USA
[x][initiative] Indirect Initiative
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
without the SLP there is no new America!
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
without the SLP there is no new America!
DracoDracul
Bigender Communist
- Location
- Austin
- Pronouns
- She/They
[x][initiative] Indirect Initiative
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
[x][initiative] Indirect Initiative
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
always_confused
Perpetually unwanted
- Location
- SEA
[x][initiative] Indirect Initiative
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
Lweis
Doesn't Exist
- Location
- Nowhere
- Pronouns
- N/A
[X][initiative] Direct Initiative
[X][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[X][number] Referenda require 10% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 12%, recall votes 15%.
[X][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[X][byelection] Single seat election.
[X][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[X][number] Referenda require 10% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 12%, recall votes 15%.
[X][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[X][byelection] Single seat election.
- Location
- Ireland
- Pronouns
- He/They/She
[x][initiative] Indirect Initiative
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
[x][initiative] Indirect Initiative
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
- Location
- ferreries
[x][initiative] Indirect Initiative
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.
[x][modify] The legislature must pass the initiative exactly as it was proposed.
[x][number] Referenda require 5% of votes cast in the previous election, initiatives 6%, recall votes 7%.
[x][national] A referendum/initiative on the national level only requires 1% of votes cast in the previous election, and initiatives 1.5%.
[x][byelection] Single seat election.