Pistols just aren't a military priority, to be honest. Hence you get "that'll do designs" and they're the easiest thing to sacrifice when it comes to production priorities. Nambu-designed longarms and machine-guns didn't suffer the same degree of problems.

Boo! No levers unless it's a falling block!:mob:
1) Nambu's worst gun was the Type 11. The pistols were actually more underpowered compared to what they can handle than anything else.

2) Every Levergat strong enough to take the round from the requirements is a falling block. (Well unless I do enough coke to bang out a unique toggle lock design.)
 
Wasn't the Japanese government buying them from anyone they could get to make them? It also wouldn't surprise me if they catastrophically failed less than they supposedly did.

Yeah, pretty much. Tokyo Gas & Electric wasn't excatly Japan's best firearms manufacturer.

Boo! No levers unless it's a falling block!:mob:

I mean, the Type 86 Mountain Carbine is falling-block. The field rifle (Type 87) is a single shot bolt action though, and the old trapdoor gun (Type 65) is still in the reserves. Somewhere.

I don't feel I know enough to actually vote, necessarily, but I am pleased to see that for some reason we chose the lever-action among the other guns. Leverguns are cool.

I mean, you can vote my plans. They only include one or two shitty items, and one cool one I like.
 
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1) Nambu's worst gun was the Type 11. The pistols were actually more underpowered compared to what they can handle than anything else.
The Type 11 is one of those designs that look absolutely fantastic in abstract, and perform utterly dismally in actual combat conditions, yes. I cut it some slack for being the first domestic Japanese LMG though, produced at a point where no-one was still quite sure what an LMG should look like. The Type 96 and Type 3 were very solid though, as was the Type 38.
2) Every Levergat strong enough to take the round from the requirements is a falling block. (Well unless I do enough coke to bang out a unique toggle lock design.)
Yeah, but @Sarpedon referenced the Winchester 1895.
 
The Type 11 is one of those designs that look absolutely fantastic in abstract, and perform utterly dismally in actual combat conditions, yes. I cut it some slack for being the first domestic Japanese LMG though, produced at a point where no-one was still quite sure what an LMG should look like. The Type 96 and Type 3 were very solid though, as was the Type 38.

Yeah, but @Sarpedon referenced the Winchester 1895.
The 1895 is pretty much a falling block that John Browning but a bolt on to handle extraction and feeding. The lockup is pretty much identical.
 
Repeating Rifle Commision Stage Four part one
With five firearms selected, and four barrels sent out to every winning designer, the competition begins in earnest.

The Holl design received one upgrade between the design proposal stage and testing, getting a lever latch to prevent it from flopping around on the march or on horseback. The testing team reports that the new latch works extremely well. They also report although the drop lever is unusual feeling at first and fairly complex it becomes second nature to use very quickly, and makes for good extraction and ejection. With the lever latch, the halfcock makes the action perfectly safe and allows someone to carry it on a galloping horse with a round in the chamber without worrying about accidental discharge or unintentional ejection. Loading individual rounds through the top of the action is fairly awkward though given the narrow action, and the testing team does not like how open the entire action is during loading. Feeding is adequate, if nothing special. The supplied ladder sight is derived from the sight on the presently in service M.830 cavalry carbine, lacks windage adjustment or anything particularly fancy, and doesn't represent any improvement or reduction in quality. The action survived overpressure testing, but became noticeably stiffer and harder to lock.

The Holl that was deliberately rusted while open didn't come out particularly far ahead due to testing methodologies, but the whole action is extremely well sealed against dust and mud when closed and handled that round of testing well. Accuracy after rusting and abuse is not particularly bad, increasing by only point six minutes of angle to just about two point three MoA. The team estimates that peak possible accuracy on the rifle is about one point five mil when hand fitted, and mass produced versions could hit maybe three MoA on a good day. Estimated cost in mass production would be about 2 Thalers 15±20 Kreutzer.

Lars Schaubler's abomination has tested surprisingly well. The action is very familiar to the testing team, and works well enough and boasts an upgraded extractor and ejector over the M.825 rifle. It has no safety, but infantry doctrine does not call for the circumstances in which one would be necessary anyway. Loading from the top of the action is interesting and something of a challenge at first, albeit one probably overcome by training, but the two piece bronze spindle is easy to load outside of the gun and holds ammunition securely. One of the reports included a note that if unloaded, the spindle is also heavy enough that it'd make for a passable flail if it was in a strong enough sock. Insertion of the spindle from underneath is easy, and the mechanical indexing system actuated by the bolt is smooth and surprisingly robust. The feed is incredibly controlled as well, and was almost unable to jam during testing. Only one rifle was destroyed in testing, from an overpressure round cracking one lug and creating a jet of gas that would have blinded the shooter and another needed the extractor off the broken rifle after breakage.

The Schaubler that was rusted while open suffered a near complete failure to index, but the closed rifle was sealed enough against dust and debris to compare favorably with other rifles. However, in both cases, the bolt is still extremely smooth, indicating that the problem lies in the finely fitted and revolver like indexing gears. Accuracy after rusting did not drop off dramatically, only decreasing by point two Minutes of Angle to about one point eight. Peak accuracy when hand fitted is estimated to be one point four MoA, with mass produced versions estimated to top out at 1.8 MoA. Estimated cost in mass production would be 2 Thalers 73±30 Kreutzer.

Topani's rifle works. It works quite well. The bolt is good enough, the action extracts and ejects well under most conditions and in general it is a perfectly competent action. The flag safety provided is a bit fiddly for the taste of the commission, but blocks the striker in a very robust way. The sights are frankly unique and fiddly compared to a ladder sight. The cavalry officers hate it because it will absolutely tear up a scabbard if used on a carbine. The main benefit of the action, and its weak point is the packet loader. Disposable/ "semi-reusable" feed lips were a problem on the Hanner Magazine Rifle, and they're a problem here. Barely visible deformations to the packet effect feeding dramatically. This isn't expected to be a problem in normal use since packets use tinplate, and would cost at absolute most a kreutzer each versus the ten kreutzer for five rounds in each packet, but reusing the twenty provided packets during testing caused no end of problems. Feeding the packets in is however extremely easy, they lock in securely, and using five new packets, managed to set a record of twenty five rounds in fifty seconds. one rifle was destroyed in overpressure testing, shearing a locking lug, but did not do so in a way that would not injure the shooter.

The Topani entry handled the rusting tests fairly well, with no real discernable difference in performance, even if the trigger was stiffer, and lock time noticeably longer. Again, making much of the magazine basically disposable does a good job of isolating some problems, and makes it fairly easy to clean. Initial Accuracy was the worst of the tested batch, dropping from one point nine MoA to two point two after rusting. Theoretical maximum accuracy when handfitted is around one point five MoA, with a mass produced model maybe hitting three MoA. Estimated cost of production would be 1 Thaler 120±20 Kreutzer.

The Arbatescu entry was presented to the testing team by S. Arbatescu's young widow who claims to be the actual designer, Mrs. Simona Arbatescu. The action is smooth, simple, and durable. Ejection failure did not happen, the ejector took anything thrown at it with little complaint. The safety is extremely simple to use, and works with palm pressure, meaning it remains useful with frostbitten hands or heavy mittens. The sights are simple and functional developments of the M.830 Cavalry carbine's ladder sights, and like the rest of the rifle cheap and quick to make and more than durable enough to do the job. The overall rifle was explicitly designed to be strong and cost-effective to produce, requiring minimal amounts of components, machining and hand fitting, while still retaining a magazine cut-off just in case. Which is an unusual position to take for a bespoke rifle company like Arbatescu's but of maximum importance for a government contract. Loading is easy, feeding is reliable enough, and like the Kaila Kapan, the testing team was unable to damage the rifles or create simulated injuries in overpressure tests, although this did not extend to the same sadistic levels as occured with the Kaila Kapan.

Mrs. Arbatescu's rifle survived the rusting tests with minimal apparent issue, with observed accuracy decreasing from one point two to one point four MoA, mostly from a longer lock time. Cleaning was a bit of an issue, but less than on any tested rifle aside from the Kaila Kapan. Theoretical maximum accuracy of the rifle is about one minute of angle when hand fitted, and just over two MoA when mass produced. Estimated cost of production would be 1 Thaler 30±20 Kreutzer.

Herceg Kaila of Kapan's rifle is the final entry in the testing stage, and was also produced by the Arbatescu factory (Herceg Kaila having apparently bought rights to some of the patents to make some of his own improvements to the late S. Arbatescu's original design.) More complex than the Arbatescu design, the Kaila Kapan is stronger to an absolutely pointless degree. The action is smooth, the optional cover (a tinplate stamping with a hole cut in it for the bolt bent over a mandrel) does not create any problems, and the ejector is similarly simple and overbuilt. The sights are the same as the Arbatescu, as is the magazine, safety and magazine cut-off, and most of the differences come from the far more complex and expensive bolt design on the Kaila Kapan. In overpressure testing, the Kaila Kapan was impossible to damage to a point that would be impossible to repair, with even a steel rod welded into the barrel being dealt with safely, and no permanent damage to the rifle outside the obviously ruined barrel.

The Kaila Kapan did not handle rust particularly well when open thanks to the fine fitting of the teeth, but still managed a respectable level of accuracy. Cleaning any fouling out of the chamber was fairly simple, and while it didn't take debris being introduced to the action particularly well, the cover would obviously prevent most debris from entering anyway. Accuracy as tested was one point one MoA initially, declining to one point five MoA. Theoretical maximum accuracy is sub-one MoA, the best accuracy predicted off an assembly line is predicted to be two point two to two point three MoA. Estimated cost in mass production would be 1 Thaler 130±30 Kreutzer.

With initial testing done, the commission is now available to offer feedback or mix and match components for a second round of testing to improve on the offerings and make a better service rifle. Eg this is an open vote by plan. Go nuts.

EDIT:
Actually since I'm a derp, have a format for this shit.
[-] Holl
- [-] Modification.
[-] Schaubler
- [-] Modifications
[-] Topani
-[-] Modifications
[-] Arbatescu
-[-] Modifications
[-] Kaila Kapan
-[-] Modifications.
 
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I'd like to see a midpoint of the Arbatescu and the Kaila variant, adding the dust cover and additional vent holes while emphasising the simplicity of the former, with the Topani packet loading system.
 
Ms arbatescu seems to be the best but topani with a better safety and normal sights might be close
 
I'm concerned about the en bloc clip system tbh. It seems far too fragile for proper field service.
@NothingNow is it at least bi-directional?
It's intended to be disposable, and is single directional. Most of its issues come from having to reuse them since the test examples were hand-made instead of stamped out by the billions as is the plan if it sees adoption.
 
@NothingNow has Topani tinkered with making a bi-directional version of his clip?
Not yet. Like he literally just invented the thing last month.

@NothingNow can we still use the Sholk optical sights?
Maybe. The Kaila Kapan and Arbatescu are the only ones that would be able to or Benefit from it, but that'd require stretching the action a couple inches to get the necessary bridge length, and require giving up the dust cover.
 
[X] Plan Refinements
-[X] Remove the Schaubler rifle from competition
-[X] Remove the Holl rifle from competition
-[X] Request a completely reusable design for the Topani rifle's packet loader system.
-[X] Request a double-ended packet design for the Topani rifle's packet loader system.
-[X] Politely suggest that Kalia Kapan and Arbestcu combine efforts formally.
--[X] Request a Kalia Kapan variant without serrated lugs
--[X] Request a Arbesctu variant with gas ports
--[X] Request a combined design variant with whatever they consider a good plan.

I'd like to see a midpoint of the Arbatescu and the Kaila variant, adding the dust cover and additional vent holes while emphasising the simplicity of the former, with the Topani packet loading system.

Well, as nice as that plan is, how the hell do you plan to get them to work together? Literally the only reason I think getting Kalia Kapan and Arbesctu to work together is because the former bought the later's patents.

I'm concerned about the en bloc clip system tbh. It seems far too fragile for proper field service.
@NothingNow is it at least bi-directional?

It literally says it's mono-directional in the fucking update.

@NothingNow can we still use the Sholk optical sights?

What is the point of decreasing returns? Where does this fit in our doctrine? Why is it worth trying to get people who probably hate working with each other to actually use this piece of overhyped shit? Hint, volley fire is still the fucking order of the day!
 
Well, as nice as that plan is, how the hell do you plan to get them to work together? Literally the only reason I think getting Kalia Kapan and Arbesctu to work together is because the former bought the later's patents.
Because the widow would probably like a large sum of money, and the prince would probably like the fame of having his name on the service rifle, so each has a reason to perfect a hybrid.

What is the point of decreasing returns? Where does this fit in our doctrine? Why is it worth trying to get people who probably hate working with each other to actually use this piece of overhyped shit? Hint, volley fire is still the fucking order of the day!
The aperture sights I'd suggest we keep in mind for a potential variant of the AK design, intended for the Mountain troops and similar less-linear formations.
 
Because the widow would probably like a large sum of money, and the prince would probably like the fame of having his name on the service rifle, so each has a reason to perfect a hybrid.

The Arbescutu and Kapan could happen. Might. Getting Topani in there is where I pull out my Doubt Card.

As for apature sights, we are, at minimum, sixty years away from an AK-47 design. Sixty years. 60. If someone can't reinvent a can on the ass end of the rifle and a smaller can on the mouth of the rifle for accurate shooting, I think we have bigger problems.
 
The Arbescutu and Kapan could happen. Might. Getting Topani in there is where I pull out my Doubt Card.

As for apature sights, we are, at minimum, sixty years away from an AK-47 design. Sixty years. 60. If someone can't reinvent a can on the ass end of the rifle and a smaller can on the mouth of the rifle for accurate shooting, I think we have bigger problems.
AK = Arbescutu-Kapan.

While Topani will no doubt be miffed at his rifle not being chosen, he seems to like our favoured option, and I can't see why he'd decline to have his packet loader be the centrepiece of that system.
 
It literally says it's mono-directional in the fucking update.

Calm down, there's no need for that.

[X] Plan Combo
-[X] Remove the Schaubler rifle from competition
-[X] Remove the Holl rifle from competition
-[X] Request Arbatescu & Kaila Kapan & Topani combine their projects
--[X] Use Arbatescu bolt assembly
--[X] Incorporate Kapan-style dust cover and vent holes
--[X] Incorporate bi-directional reload packets
--[X] Modify ladder sights to be able to flip backwards to accommodate cavalry scabbards
--[X] Create experimental model with Sholk-style optical sights sans dust cover
 
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[X] Plan AK
-[X] Request a hybrid design from Arbatescu and Kaila, adding the dust cover and additional vent holes of the latter while emphasising the simplicity of the former.
-[X] Request a double-ended packet design for the Topani rifle's packet loader system.
-[X] Request the packet loader be adapted for the Arbatescu-Kaila design.
-[X] Consider plans for a future elongated version of the basic AK with Sholk aperture sights for specialist use.
 
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