Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

The idea is that at some point, it won't matter how good a single ship is, if you can't make enough to actually matter, and it doesn't matter if Revy has a totally amazing idea for a weapon, if she's the only one that understands it. This would basically be a measure of how much of the population can actually be mobilized to make use of it. Just PI, just the Mega-Corps or Military, or general use tech. Like the development of computers or even planes.
I feel this is completely missing the point of how technology works. 90% of people have no idea how or why a smartphone works but have no problem in using one on a daily basis. Similarly very few people involved in the construction of smartphones know how they actually work. The only thing people need to know to use tools is how to well use them. In this case a soldier don't need to know how Revy's Super Amazing Plot Weapon works, they just need to know which end to point at the enemy and where the trigger is.

I'm not well versed enough in the development of aircraft to comment one way or another but most the issues and delays with the rollout of computers were engineering not scientific. Vacuum tubes had limitations that meant only large supercomputers were useful, germanium transistors were great but too expensive for serious computer usage outside specialist roles, and silicon transistors were amazing and revolutionized the world. While our understanding of how computers worked certainly advanced over that timeframe it wasn't really necessary for the rapid spread of computers once they became small and cheap enough, thanks to the silicon transistor and integrated circuit.

Maybe I'm just not understanding your idea correctly?
 
Y'know, I was just rereading the old tech tree, and I saw something sad.

We meet every prerequisite to research the Gen 3 Iron Man suit, except for having researched the Gen 2.

Seriously, Why aren't we building the Gen 2 suit? Why?

I just wanna be Iron Man already...
 
Y'know, I was just rereading the old tech tree, and I saw something sad.

We meet every prerequisite to research the Gen 3 Iron Man suit, except for having researched the Gen 2.

Seriously, Why aren't we building the Gen 2 suit? Why?

I just wanna be Iron Man already...
Because Iron Man can't outfight a Frigate and if the Reapers can't beat our Fleets then we don't need planetary defense forces.
 
Y'know, I was just rereading the old tech tree, and I saw something sad.

We meet every prerequisite to research the Gen 3 Iron Man suit, except for having researched the Gen 2.

Seriously, Why aren't we building the Gen 2 suit? Why?

I just wanna be Iron Man already...
We have a very tight research budget and have to prioritize. Iron Man suit is cool, yes. It probably opens some special ops options for Alliance. But we considered other technologies to be more essential. As soon as we have some breathing room, we should get it, but we and the Alliance are in a tight spot right now, militarily, politically and economically. So, other techs take priority.
 
Y'know, I was just rereading the old tech tree, and I saw something sad.

We meet every prerequisite to research the Gen 3 Iron Man suit, except for having researched the Gen 2.

Seriously, Why aren't we building the Gen 2 suit? Why?

I just wanna be Iron Man already...
As far as I remember from the little I actually interacted with the thread back in those days, it was because there wasn't a need for the Mark 2 when the Mark 1.75 was working fine, and out of a desire to not upend the entire galaxy's military paradigm AGAIN. Especially after the Admiralty Board asked us to talk to them before we introduced any more paradigm of war altering inventions.
 
Because Iron Man can't outfight a Frigate and if the Reapers can't beat our Fleets then we don't need planetary defense forces.
To emphasize this:
The SA has sent us an order. We are to produce as many Pyndas for them as we can without violating existing contracts. They have agreed to pay in accordance to the prices negotiated last quarter. As the SA is at war and the price was previously negotiated we really don't have any room to object. With the Citadel removing mandatory arc-reactor quotas we could drop production there and produce more ships though that would affect the budget numbers I have sent you.
LLPs require 61,177.810pr each and without violating any existing contracts we have 2,503,431.00pr we can dedicate to LLP production. That comes to 40 LLPs in this quarter although if we forgo producing Arc Reactors for the Citadel Races then we free up another 1,500,000pr increasing the total to 65 LLPs this quarter.

That being said we probably want to keep up the Arc Reactor production. I set the price for LLPs to be just above the "minimum" threshold (IE: the point where production is better spent on general sales rather then contracts) so it only makes 270,697cr/pr while our sales of Arc Reactors to the Citadel Races brings in 666,667cr/pr so switching over would represent an effective "loss" of just shy of 594 billion credits.

I think we are being patriotic enough by selling at bottom barrel prices since the the Alliance's previous best frigate (Waterloo Block 3) has a construction cost of 71.56 billion. So LLPs retail for literally half the price of the Waterloo's break even cost and probably closer to a third of the Waterloo's retail price.
 
Y'know, I was just rereading the old tech tree, and I saw something sad.

We meet every prerequisite to research the Gen 3 Iron Man suit, except for having researched the Gen 2.

Seriously, Why aren't we building the Gen 2 suit? Why?

I just wanna be Iron Man already...


There are two differences between the Mark 1.5 and the Mark 2:
  • Integration of techs up to 1600 RPs (for instance, Artificial Biotics and Superalloys); the Mark 1.5 is limited to 400 RP techs and below
  • Semi-automated assembly/disassembly (think Tony having his suit put on/taken off by JARVIS in the first movie; not the Mark 42 in Iron Man 3; that requires Transformation Systems as well)
  • Superalloys unlocks: allows the creation of thinner/more customizable armors without spending extra RPs (a thin armor that allows biotics, differentiation for non-human species, etc), and fast reentry capabilities
When you really break it down, about the only one of these benefits that are really useful to Revy at the moment is the added durability of the Superalloys tech; other than that we just haven't researched any of the techs that would make the Mark 2 worth the investment. It's especially not worth it right now, because we have a non-compete agreement with H&K until mid-2175 (three quarters from now) which forbids us from selling armor better than the Legionary anyway.

But if you disagree, the Gen 2 suit is 7/10ths complete as it is; we just need three people to write good omakes to get it done. Hint hint. :D
should we make veritechs? Macross Missile Massacre <3
Veritechs would require:
  • 5 meter mech: 400 RP
  • 15 meter mech: 800 RP
  • Transformation Systems: 1600 RP
and would not give us any capabilities that we don't already have with drones, suits, and IFVs. Those RPs could instead give us two levels of brain shielding and finish off QECs, both of which we desperately need ASAP, or miniaturized energy weapons, multi-core eezo drives, and UV lasers, which mean we own space for the next four years.

I think we are being patriotic enough by selling at bottom barrel prices since the the Alliance's previous best frigate (Waterloo Block 3) has a construction cost of 71.56 billion. So LLPs retail for literally half the price of the Waterloo's break even cost and probably closer to a third of the Waterloo's retail price.
Really we ought to ask for more money right now, when wartime budgets are going to be shoveling money out the door as fast as possible. We can justify it by telling the Alliance we need the money to expand production operations to Earth, which would reduce the strategic vulnerability of having most of our critical production assets in far-flung colonies; we don't need to tell them we've actually been planning to do that anyway. You can bet that Cord-Hislop Aerospace is cleaning up on Gladius sales, with the Alliance cycling out the fighters on their carrier groups for the new model, and the colonies are getting a lot of business building our Super-Piliums and Hydras.
 
Because Iron Man can't outfight a Frigate and if the Reapers can't beat our Fleets then we don't need planetary defense forces.
With iron man mark L tech the difference between a suit and a frigate is simply a question of power supply and how many nanites are availiable.

The infinity war suit is OP in terms of how it was able to shapeshift without becoming less effective in any particular form.
 
With iron man mark L tech the difference between a suit and a frigate is simply a question of power supply and how many nanites are availiable.

The infinity war suit is OP in terms of how it was able to shapeshift without becoming less effective in any particular form.
Yes... but the frigate will always have more power and more nanites because it's bigger.
WTF are you trying to argue?
 
Yes... but the frigate will always have more power and more nanites because it's bigger.
WTF are you trying to argue?
I think he was trying to argue that once you get to MCU Mk L levels of Iron Man tech, you start to blur the line between suit and frigate, with the only difference being how many nanites and arc reactors any given unit has available.
 
On the other hand it does sound like a potential april fools joke to release a nonsense paper and see how long people spend trying to understand it before it gets rejected.
 
Heh, the situation with the incomprehensible paper is actually happening. About two years (I think) ago, a pretty respected mathematician dropped a series of huge papers trying to prove a pretty major theorem (the abc conjecture). Nobody could understand it, and so it hung in limbo. Mind, in this case the author wasn't super helpful in explaining. Last I heard, two other famous mathematicians finally said that there's a serious error in the proof. Quanta had an article on it. I recommend checking it out, the whole affair is fascinating.
Funnily, you mention two techs that kind of disprove your case. How many people use a computer, or a plane, or a smartphone, as opposed to those who really understand how they work? That's one of the things that differentiates technology from magic: technology is democratized in that you don't have to know the secret rituals that let you manipulate the universe to do your bidding; someone else has done all of that for you.

What normally differentiates technology between widespread use and specialty is usually not inherent in the technology itself, but in the intended use case. The CCD technology used in a digital camera is used by damn near everyone on the planet, despite the fact that very few people even know what the acronym even means (charge-coupled device) because having a digital camera is incredibly useful; on the other hand a GC-MS is basically lab-only technology, despite the fact that both gas chromatography and mas spectrometry are decades older on the technology ladder.

I feel this is completely missing the point of how technology works. 90% of people have no idea how or why a smartphone works but have no problem in using one on a daily basis. Similarly very few people involved in the construction of smartphones know how they actually work. The only thing people need to know to use tools is how to well use them. In this case a soldier don't need to know how Revy's Super Amazing Plot Weapon works, they just need to know which end to point at the enemy and where the trigger is.

I'm not well versed enough in the development of aircraft to comment one way or another but most the issues and delays with the rollout of computers were engineering not scientific. Vacuum tubes had limitations that meant only large supercomputers were useful, germanium transistors were great but too expensive for serious computer usage outside specialist roles, and silicon transistors were amazing and revolutionized the world. While our understanding of how computers worked certainly advanced over that timeframe it wasn't really necessary for the rapid spread of computers once they became small and cheap enough, thanks to the silicon transistor and integrated circuit.

Maybe I'm just not understanding your idea correctly?
Thank you both for the feedback. I think the problem is that I didn't explain properly what I meant (partially because I don't have a super clear image in my mind yet), so let's try again.

It is certainly true that most people don't understand the tech they're using. Hell, I'm pretty sure that's actually impossible, given how bloody complex even a single computer chip is, never mind stuff like a million LOC program, and then their interactions. They don't have to. And if you want to make something, you don't have to either. We have accrued so much institutional knowledge (for a lack of a better term) that you can get away with it, because someone already thought things through, and figured out a way to handle it (either specifically, or guidelines for the general case). Part of that is engineering, certainly, but it's not like PI is purely theoretical science. And this is what I want to get at with the categories. Maybe a better term would be maturity of the tech.

Part is also a lot of small optimizations and refinement. And another part is how well we can explain it. Like, the math for special relativity hasn't changed. But it used to be mind-breakingly hard to understand (I remember a quote, but I can't find it right now), and these days you can find five minute youtube videos that do a pretty good job explaining it (or at least parts).

So I hope that's a clearer explanation of what I'm getting at. If it's still dumb, then do let me know.
 
To emphasize this:

LLPs require 61,177.810pr each and without violating any existing contracts we have 2,503,431.00pr we can dedicate to LLP production. That comes to 40 LLPs in this quarter although if we forgo producing Arc Reactors for the Citadel Races then we free up another 1,500,000pr increasing the total to 65 LLPs this quarter.

That being said we probably want to keep up the Arc Reactor production. I set the price for LLPs to be just above the "minimum" threshold (IE: the point where production is better spent on general sales rather then contracts) so it only makes 270,697cr/pr while our sales of Arc Reactors to the Citadel Races brings in 666,667cr/pr so switching over would represent an effective "loss" of just shy of 594 billion credits.

I think we are being patriotic enough by selling at bottom barrel prices since the the Alliance's previous best frigate (Waterloo Block 3) has a construction cost of 71.56 billion. So LLPs retail for literally half the price of the Waterloo's break even cost and probably closer to a third of the Waterloo's retail price.

Those Arc-Reactor sales also bring in a lot of tax money the Alliance may really, really want to fund the war effort.
 
Those Arc-Reactor sales also bring in a lot of tax money the Alliance may really, really want to fund the war effort.
Eh; not really. PI makes 1 trillion credits profit on that Arc Reactor contract and at 20% tax the Alliance gets 200 billion. Now that might seem like a lot, and for a private company it kinda is, but for a species wide government it's a drop in the bucket. I worked out ages ago that the Alliance probably has a GDP around 637 trillion credits* of which 5% (31.9 trillion) goes to the military. Factor in that the Alliance is likely undergoing mobilization which could push that figure to somewhere between 20% (WWI level) and 40% (WWII level) of GDP. In that sort of scope an extra 200 billion really doesn't change things. Especially not when they are paying us 36.3 billion per LLP and we'll probably be delivering 181 LLPs over the next year which comes to 6,570.3 billion or about 20.6% of their pre-war annual budget.

*Which fits with the median wage in the Alliance being around 50,000cr and there being around 12 billion humans since multiplied together that gives 600 trillion credits. Although the wealth disparity means the average, which is what GDP should be calculated off, would be skewed higher.

Really we ought to ask for more money right now, when wartime budgets are going to be shoveling money out the door as fast as possible. We can justify it by telling the Alliance we need the money to expand production operations to Earth, which would reduce the strategic vulnerability of having most of our critical production assets in far-flung colonies; we don't need to tell them we've actually been planning to do that anyway. You can bet that Cord-Hislop Aerospace is cleaning up on Gladius sales, with the Alliance cycling out the fighters on their carrier groups for the new model, and the colonies are getting a lot of business building our Super-Piliums and Hydras.
Yeah there is no chance of us getting paid more for the LLPs when we'd already essentially entered a contract with them at 36.3 billion per ship. Sure they massive accelerated the timeline since we weren't planning on selling them until 2175-Q1 with most our planned sales being tentatively penned in for Q3 and Q4 of 2175 since that is when our second and third Space Factory IIs come online but it's hard to argue when we are a primary target of the Batarians and the Alliance just permanently parked an entire fleet (the 4th Fleet) with attached Dreadnought overhead to protect us.

Plus we kinda want the Alliance to grab as many LLPs since their hypermodularity means they'll be very useful when the Reapers attack since we can swap out their currently 'weak' lasers for heavy duty ones. Also great for treaty busting.


That being said we probably want to keep up the Arc Reactor production. I set the price for LLPs to be just above the "minimum" threshold (IE: the point where production is better spent on general sales rather then contracts) so it only makes 270,697cr/pr while our sales of Arc Reactors to the Citadel Races brings in 666,667cr/pr so switching over would represent an effective "loss" of just shy of 594 billion credits.
I remember bringing this up before but I don't recall consensus ever being formed; if we swap out our Gen I Arc Reactors for Gen IIs we can both seriously increase the number of LLPs we can sell to the Alliance and our profit from the Citadel contract.

Gen I 5GW Arc Reactors cost 50,000cr and 0.3pr while Gen II 5GW Arc Reactors 15,000cr and 0.075pr. So by switching over on 5 million Arc Reactors we save 175 billion credits (IE: +175 billion profit) and 1,125,000pr (IE: +18 LLPs) which even with the low 'effective' profit on LLPs is still an extra 298 billion. Thus by switching we can make an extra 473 billion and get the Alliance an extra 18 LLPs per quarter. Still people have raised some concerns about switching over to our newer Gen II Arc Reactors even with Flawless Black Boxing.

Since this will probably come up next update since that is when we'll be voting on our production I figure it's a question worth clarifying now. Also worth discussing is if we'll be switching over to Gen II Arc Reactors on our various other product lines. I haven't done the math (yet) but there are a lot of savings, and thus profit, to be made by doing so.
 
Still people have raised some concerns about switching over to our newer Gen II Arc Reactors even with Flawless Black Boxing.

Does Black Boxing even help us that much? We can outsource production so there's evidently a way for people to create our stuff without understanding it at all, meaning the Reapers can still combine it with their own knowledge and seriously uptech like we've feared and experienced.

Are we really that much more screwed if the Reapers understand how our stuff works?
 
Does Black Boxing even help us that much? We can outsource production so there's evidently a way for people to create our stuff without understanding it at all, meaning the Reapers can still combine it with their own knowledge and seriously uptech like we've feared and experienced.

Are we really that much more screwed if the Reapers understand how our stuff works?
Outsourcing means giving them the instructions needed to produce Tech X which (unsurprisingly) completely negates any of the protection Blackboxing provides. From the description of Flawless Black Boxing:
[ ] Flawless black boxing/FRM [1,929.75/3200]: By riddling your technology with superfluous wiring and casing, adding minute self-destructive devises, and shielding it all from all known forms of non-intrusive tomography, you have been able to keep your rivals (and most governments) guessing as to how it is your devices work. Now, you start getting serious about secrecy. (Makes reverse engineering your technology practically impossible to any of the Citadel species.)
What this means is that if someone gets a hold of an Arc Reactor they can't figure out how to make more (unless we give them the plans). The most straightforward thing about this is it lets us sell our products without subjecting them to the Council's patent laws since we'd be selling them without patents since we don't need them since no one else can figure out how to make them. On top of this it means if anyone steals a piece of our technology they can't figure out how to duplicate it and thus are limited to only their singular stolen bit.

It does not protect against people using items we're sold on the market, either directly to them or indirectly via third parties, against us. It does not protect against people using our technology for improving their own technology. All it does is prevent them from making copies.

So if we start selling Gen II Arc Reactors then people could use the reactor's we've sold for all sorts of nefarious purposes. However they could, and are, already do that with Gen I Arc Reactors. The only real difference, besides Gen IIs being cheaper, is that Gen IIs are physically smaller but seeing as we are selling them as substitutes for Gen I reactors odds are we'd whack a protective case around them to act as a size adapter bringing them up to Gen I size.
 
It is certainly true that most people don't understand the tech they're using. Hell, I'm pretty sure that's actually impossible, given how bloody complex even a single computer chip is, never mind stuff like a million LOC program, and then their interactions. They don't have to. And if you want to make something, you don't have to either. We have accrued so much institutional knowledge (for a lack of a better term) that you can get away with it, because someone already thought things through, and figured out a way to handle it (either specifically, or guidelines for the general case). Part of that is engineering, certainly, but it's not like PI is purely theoretical science. And this is what I want to get at with the categories. Maybe a better term would be maturity of the tech.

Part is also a lot of small optimizations and refinement. And another part is how well we can explain it. Like, the math for special relativity hasn't changed. But it used to be mind-breakingly hard to understand (I remember a quote, but I can't find it right now), and these days you can find five minute youtube videos that do a pretty good job explaining it (or at least parts).

So I hope that's a clearer explanation of what I'm getting at. If it's still dumb, then do let me know.
That makes more sense, but I'm sort of confused where you're going with it and how it's going to work in practice. Are you saying that we're going to see bonus knock-on effects from existing techs as they mature, that fully researched techs are going to start off with limited utility until a certain maturity threshold has passed? Would there be additional statistics being added to all techs / certain key techs to track this? At the moment it seems like a bunch of complexity for little gain, but I'm willing to be surprised.

I remember bringing this up before but I don't recall consensus ever being formed; if we swap out our Gen I Arc Reactors for Gen IIs we can both seriously increase the number of LLPs we can sell to the Alliance and our profit from the Citadel contract.

Gen I 5GW Arc Reactors cost 50,000cr and 0.3pr while Gen II 5GW Arc Reactors 15,000cr and 0.075pr. So by switching over on 5 million Arc Reactors we save 175 billion credits (IE: +175 billion profit) and 1,125,000pr (IE: +18 LLPs) which even with the low 'effective' profit on LLPs is still an extra 298 billion. Thus by switching we can make an extra 473 billion and get the Alliance an extra 18 LLPs per quarter. Still people have raised some concerns about switching over to our newer Gen II Arc Reactors even with Flawless Black Boxing.

Since this will probably come up next update since that is when we'll be voting on our production I figure it's a question worth clarifying now. Also worth discussing is if we'll be switching over to Gen II Arc Reactors on our various other product lines. I haven't done the math (yet) but there are a lot of savings, and thus profit, to be made by doing so.
It's not really Black Boxing that may be a problem here; after all, the Arc Reactors will still remain properly black boxed. The problem is that we're only a quarter or two from the whole "Don't Lick the Arc Reactor" bit. If we issue a large design change now, with no prior announcement and the exact same quarter that the Citadel lifted our minimum sales provision, we could leave ourselves open to another PR attack, right when those Asari-built dark energy reactors are trying to introduce competition to the sector. The first one wasn't successful, but not that an inferior but sometimes plausibly usable substitute is available, we might actually see a temporary dip in sales.
 
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