Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Err pretty sure the repulsors will be able to keep the ship stable.
Hmm how are repulsors with cavitation?
Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution
- Thread starter Hoyr
- Start date
Hmm how are repulsors with cavitation?
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
They should not have cavitation. Repusor thrusters works like rocket engines after all.
By the way, with ME tech, I expect that screws were superseded by high speed water jets by now. Screws have some unfortunate technical limitations.
Also if Tiger is space capable, then it should be used theoretically under water too with a some redesign .
- Location
- Leeds
Considering that there are no moving parts, and that we can assume the Repulsor beams are a solid stream or close enough.
Pretty good.
Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
Biggest difference (and it's kinda huge) spaceships are designed to keep normal atmosphere IN at ~1 atmosphere of preasure vs the vacume of space. Submarines need to keep who the hell knows how many atmospheres worth of variable preasure OUT vs ~1 atmosphere of preasure on the inside. The structures needed to not implode/explode/leak under those conditions are rather different.
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
With superalloys and Eezo cores, it is not much of problem.
Instead of a fully metal hull, a more flexible and elastic multi layer self-selaing one with added not fully sealed armor plating, would be more preferable.
Basically the external armor do not need to be pressure resistant, i could even have gaps to lessen the pressure.
Superalloys allows us to create a base hull material which is extremely stress resistant above everything else.
- Location
- Leeds
I think a lot of people are oversimplifying how difficult it is to design high pressure vehicles. Space ships need to withstand a pressure range of, lets say 10 bars to give us wiggle room to 0 bars. A submarine needs this to go deeper than about 100 m's.
It is doable don't mistake me, but it's not trivial and could affect vehicle performance as some systems need to be removed in order to make room for stuff needed at depth, even if we remove the need for ballasts by using ME fields.
It is doable don't mistake me, but it's not trivial and could affect vehicle performance as some systems need to be removed in order to make room for stuff needed at depth, even if we remove the need for ballasts by using ME fields.
Wouldn't kinetic barriers suffice to blunt the hull pressure?
Depending on the barrier shape, you also get to decide your vessels water resistance on the fly.
Thanks to all the water, cooling and charge dumping are trivial and arc reactors make energy a trivial problem.
And as other said, we have bullshit MatSci.
Depending on the barrier shape, you also get to decide your vessels water resistance on the fly.
Thanks to all the water, cooling and charge dumping are trivial and arc reactors make energy a trivial problem.
And as other said, we have bullshit MatSci.
Kinetic barriers might suffice to blunt the increased pressure, or even take it entirely. But then there's the question of just how detectable is that?
Hiding a fleet behind a kilometer of water or beneath the thick cloud layers of a gas giant is fine and dandy, but if they can still be detected behind all that it's not as useful as you think. They'd be sitting ducks and unable to retaliate to any incoming enemy forces. At best you tie down some enemy forces that need to maintain orbital control, but you don't need a ship for that, you can do the same just by building a generator on the ocean floor with a bunch of shielding arrays along with occasionally actually hiding something there.
Hiding a fleet behind a kilometer of water or beneath the thick cloud layers of a gas giant is fine and dandy, but if they can still be detected behind all that it's not as useful as you think. They'd be sitting ducks and unable to retaliate to any incoming enemy forces. At best you tie down some enemy forces that need to maintain orbital control, but you don't need a ship for that, you can do the same just by building a generator on the ocean floor with a bunch of shielding arrays along with occasionally actually hiding something there.
The games make it look like they don't have magic scanners. Of course, Hoyr has the last word on this.
Still, even if they are detectable, being able to dive beneath the ocean for on-planet movement opens up a lot of options as Ortillery becomes ineffective (you need a really big fucking gun to get through all that water).
And setting up a base is possible as well, even if the enemy knows the location. Casually taking it out is not an option anymore.
The ME games are of two opinions on this; on the one side it is possible to detect hardsuits and active guns by their eezo/mass manipulating signature from orbit. OTOH, the Normandy is undetectable because it doesn't use high energy thrusters but instead relies on a massive eezo core. This is rather inconvenient.
Oh, certainly, it has its uses, but it may well not be as good a trick as you think it is.
Of course, just being able to say 'you must launch a water assault' is one hell of a boon, as even the Reapers aren't really all that good at that kind of combat, which slows the enemy's military campaigns.
- Location
- Leeds
Depends on the opportunity cost of what modules the extra equipment, I will assume that hull design (although not Yogs liquid metal suggestion) to reduce damage from incoming fire will be similar to that to resist pressure, perhaps not acceptable to the depth of the ocean but definitely satisfactory to a couple hundred metres.
Also worth noting, I don't see what Kinetic barriers have to do with this. The fact that you can choose to not wear a helmet means that they don't stop air getting through so I don't see how it would stop water or gas pressure.
Kinetic Barriers on suits are explicitly limited by the suits battery. Hency why they rely on sensors to activate them only the exact moment they are needed, against objects they need to defend from. The canon example is that sitting on a chair doesn't trigger it, for example. Its also used to explain why melee attacks tend to get through. They are too slow to register as dangerous.
With Arc Reactors, this has mostly gone out the window, but the point still stands that without helmet, you are a few shots away from vacuum exposure.
With vehicles and their power generation, keeping the barrier active practically all the time is viable.
Up to Hoyr, then.
Oh, I didn't mean to imply it's a cure-all. I just think that including the capability makes it that much more of a powerful and versatile asset. And quite frankly, given the variety of environments in the galaxy, a flexible platform is a must have.
As an aside, the Hanar would love it as they don't have to bother with diffeent equipment for fighting on their own worlds and offworld.
avatar11792
Et Sic Incipit
- Location
- Planet Earth, North America
Possible Future Projects:
1. Naval ships, both floating and submersible (civilian (tankers) and military)
- Most garden worlds would likely have large oceans, water is a great heat sink and/or shield, so there's reason to make those even in the era of orbital bombardment.
2. Rapid-digging machines (small), Digging machines (large)
- basically, digging machines that can dig through almost any type of known material, varying sizes of them. Exploring various options (conventional drills, rapid-fire lasers, mass effect shenanigans?, etc) will at least break into the field.
3. Underwater Cities (Shallow): Self-contained cities capable of being built to a maximum of 100 meters. A proof-of-concept in many ways, and a springboard for future efforts and research. Said cities will have as many self-sufficiency measures into them as is possible, and will be designed in a modular fashion so future expansion will be easier. High energy efficiency and recycling will be critical to sustaining even moderately-sized populations (over 1000).
3a. Underwater Cities (Deep): Now that the basics of shallow-water cities have been established, refining said measures to withstand the pressures and environmental challenges deeper in the depths will further widen potential colonization possibilities. Said cities will have as many self-sufficiency measures into them as is possible, and will be designed in a modular fashion so future expansion will be easier. High energy efficiency and recycling will be critical to sustaining even moderately-sized populations (over 1000). (Prerequisite: Underwater Cities (Shallow))
3b. Underwater Cities (Super-Deep): Designing underwater cities that can withstand the most punishing and brutal of environments will of necessity render them capable of taking tremendous damage and withstanding enormous strains. Said cities will have as many self-sufficiency measures into them as is possible, and will be designed in a modular fashion so future expansion will be easier. High energy efficiency and recycling will be critical to sustaining even moderately-sized populations (over 1000). (Prerequisite: Underwater Cities (Deep))
3a. SSTO-capable, sublight-capable, FTL-capable Starship-Cities (ie Atlantis ripoffs): Combining the basic concepts of Underwater Cities (Super-Deep) and advanced starship engineering technologies. Said self-contained sities can land on the surface of or the oceans of any potentially habitable world, making interstellar colonization much much easier. As well, the more people live in cities like this, the less of a true need humanity has for planets or moons, as literally we can just up and leave anytime we want as circumstances dictate. (Prerequisite: Underwater Cities (Super-Deep), Advanced Spacecraft Design (Huge) AT MINIMUM, (insert FTL drive here) III AT MINIMUM, etc)
Going off of my list:
Spaceship Technologies: (Prerequisite: Carbon Nanotubes I)
- Spacecraft Design (Tiny): 0-250 meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Tiny)
- Spacecraft Design (Small): 250-500 meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Small)
- Spacecraft Design (Medium): 500-1000 meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Medium)
- Spacecraft Design (Large): 1000-2000 meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Large)
- Spacecraft Design (Huge): 2000-5000 meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Huge)
- Spacecraft Design (Gigantic): 5000-10,000 meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Gigantic)
- Spacecraft Design (Gargantuan): 10,000-20,000 meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Gargantuan)
- Spacecraft Design (Brobdingnagian): 20,000+ meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Brobdingnagian)
1. Naval ships, both floating and submersible (civilian (tankers) and military)
- Most garden worlds would likely have large oceans, water is a great heat sink and/or shield, so there's reason to make those even in the era of orbital bombardment.
2. Rapid-digging machines (small), Digging machines (large)
- basically, digging machines that can dig through almost any type of known material, varying sizes of them. Exploring various options (conventional drills, rapid-fire lasers, mass effect shenanigans?, etc) will at least break into the field.
3. Underwater Cities (Shallow): Self-contained cities capable of being built to a maximum of 100 meters. A proof-of-concept in many ways, and a springboard for future efforts and research. Said cities will have as many self-sufficiency measures into them as is possible, and will be designed in a modular fashion so future expansion will be easier. High energy efficiency and recycling will be critical to sustaining even moderately-sized populations (over 1000).
3a. Underwater Cities (Deep): Now that the basics of shallow-water cities have been established, refining said measures to withstand the pressures and environmental challenges deeper in the depths will further widen potential colonization possibilities. Said cities will have as many self-sufficiency measures into them as is possible, and will be designed in a modular fashion so future expansion will be easier. High energy efficiency and recycling will be critical to sustaining even moderately-sized populations (over 1000). (Prerequisite: Underwater Cities (Shallow))
3b. Underwater Cities (Super-Deep): Designing underwater cities that can withstand the most punishing and brutal of environments will of necessity render them capable of taking tremendous damage and withstanding enormous strains. Said cities will have as many self-sufficiency measures into them as is possible, and will be designed in a modular fashion so future expansion will be easier. High energy efficiency and recycling will be critical to sustaining even moderately-sized populations (over 1000). (Prerequisite: Underwater Cities (Deep))
3a. SSTO-capable, sublight-capable, FTL-capable Starship-Cities (ie Atlantis ripoffs): Combining the basic concepts of Underwater Cities (Super-Deep) and advanced starship engineering technologies. Said self-contained sities can land on the surface of or the oceans of any potentially habitable world, making interstellar colonization much much easier. As well, the more people live in cities like this, the less of a true need humanity has for planets or moons, as literally we can just up and leave anytime we want as circumstances dictate. (Prerequisite: Underwater Cities (Super-Deep), Advanced Spacecraft Design (Huge) AT MINIMUM, (insert FTL drive here) III AT MINIMUM, etc)
Going off of my list:
Spaceship Technologies: (Prerequisite: Carbon Nanotubes I)
- Spacecraft Design (Tiny): 0-250 meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Tiny)
- Spacecraft Design (Small): 250-500 meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Small)
- Spacecraft Design (Medium): 500-1000 meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Medium)
- Spacecraft Design (Large): 1000-2000 meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Large)
- Spacecraft Design (Huge): 2000-5000 meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Huge)
- Spacecraft Design (Gigantic): 5000-10,000 meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Gigantic)
- Spacecraft Design (Gargantuan): 10,000-20,000 meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Gargantuan)
- Spacecraft Design (Brobdingnagian): 20,000+ meters, basically.
- Advanced Spacecraft Design (Brobdingnagian)
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
I an pretty sure, that we already have CNT included in material science technologies.
Atlantis was discussed earlier, and it requires space station tech.
No magic scanners. Eezo/dark energy detection works on real world principles (lasers, visual cues, spectral analysis, etc) and tend to require shorter ranged active sensors.
Given that eezo tends to work on manipulating gravity in some way, gravitational field scanners should also work (and are something that we actually have in real life). Of course, the strength of the signal of an active eezo using device is probably pretty darn small, so you can't find it against a planet's own gravitational field unless you have a baseline to compare the spike too.
And even then there's no guarantee, as even a planet's gravitational field is not quite static and does shift.
- Location
- The word mines
Hmm. The thing about submersible ships is that in water and other fluids, to make them submersible you'd have to counteract buoyancy by using the Mass Effect core to make it heavier. That could probably make it detectable.
Or fit ballast tanks. Then you've got the challenge of making one pumping system handle different fluid densities and viscosities at all sorts of temperatures.
Or fit ballast tanks. Then you've got the challenge of making one pumping system handle different fluid densities and viscosities at all sorts of temperatures.
Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
Bo6ancy is just the objects mass vs the mass its volume displaces. Simple enough to make the thing such that it masses enough to normally sink and you use ME fields to Prevent it doing so. Which would let you turn them Off, or at least down, to hide. And if the bulk of that mass is the structure needed to not get horribly crushed, all the better.
Of course, that does have its limitations.
Of course, that does have its limitations.
Eh; we have free energy generation and reactionless drives. Just point our repulsors into the air and thrust down.
That seems like an awfully bad idea when designing a submersible city. Generally speaking fail-deadly is frowned upon, and if there's a leak (or battle damage) then being unable to escape the watery tomb would be kind of bad.
ltmauve
"Excuse me?"
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's what a ballast system is for.
Depending on the density of the ship, you'd get a much better performance flying without the ballast mass. Plus that kind of system has been around for a while and is nice and reliable.
Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
How is it fail deadly? It's designed to resist preasure just fine with the ME fields Off. As in litterally what modern subs do. The only issue is that it can't surface if the ME fields are dead... which is the same problem subs have with their pumps. Or engines. And when did i say anything about cities? It was a fix to "mass effect fields aren't stealthy". For combat units. Which are also vacume rated.
You mean that mass which isn't There when the field is on?
I did acknowledge that the system had issues, but again, it was specifically a fix for the Stealth issue.
...
This post comes off as a lot grumpier than i actually am, the complaints just don't make much sense to me in light of what i said when taken in context.
As I am currently replaying ME 2, I continue to post stuff I find that may be useful.
1. A Reaper Eezoo Core. At a guess, the thing is ~2.5m in diametre, if it's a solid mass. But it kinda looks like it's surrounded by dark energy or something that inflates the size.
This should give us more to work with in regards to estimating Eezoo requirements for something that big.
2. Krogan Blood Rage (what makes them into murderous violence junkies) is actually a genetic condition that was controlled by the pre-nuclear holocaust krogans by imprisoning those that suffered. After they blew up their civilization, conditions on Tuchanka selected for Blood Rage as they had better odds of surviving (by killing everything else)
My proposal is to eventually approach the Council with a plan to modify the Genophage. The base idea behind it makes sense. Mordin states that it reduces Krogan reproduction rates to that of a normal industrial society instead of murder tribbles. The issue is the blood rage and the thousands of child deaths and following psychological effects.
So what we change is that every female is fertile, but only as much that they won't overpopulate again. And everyone that takes that treatment also gets their blood rage removed. The question is if we are open about it (the blood rage has become culturally important) or have the STG distribute it. Everyone will suspect them anyway, but it is still a net benefit to the Krogans, so the reactions might be mixed.
Then again, if PI does it and the Krogans accept the Blood Rage treatment, we'd get unbelievable PR.
1. A Reaper Eezoo Core. At a guess, the thing is ~2.5m in diametre, if it's a solid mass. But it kinda looks like it's surrounded by dark energy or something that inflates the size.
This should give us more to work with in regards to estimating Eezoo requirements for something that big.
2. Krogan Blood Rage (what makes them into murderous violence junkies) is actually a genetic condition that was controlled by the pre-nuclear holocaust krogans by imprisoning those that suffered. After they blew up their civilization, conditions on Tuchanka selected for Blood Rage as they had better odds of surviving (by killing everything else)
My proposal is to eventually approach the Council with a plan to modify the Genophage. The base idea behind it makes sense. Mordin states that it reduces Krogan reproduction rates to that of a normal industrial society instead of murder tribbles. The issue is the blood rage and the thousands of child deaths and following psychological effects.
So what we change is that every female is fertile, but only as much that they won't overpopulate again. And everyone that takes that treatment also gets their blood rage removed. The question is if we are open about it (the blood rage has become culturally important) or have the STG distribute it. Everyone will suspect them anyway, but it is still a net benefit to the Krogans, so the reactions might be mixed.
Then again, if PI does it and the Krogans accept the Blood Rage treatment, we'd get unbelievable PR.