Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
well for one with a standardised amount we can predict how old the reactor is.
Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution
- Thread starter Hoyr
- Start date
Oh, about 5 months. There probably from one of the batches sold to the Citadel Market.
Palladium degradation and wear can do that just as well.
Cerebus research teams are that bad. Their actual black ops are not that retarded.
Besides, they wouldn't be willing to put us at risk like that. They are all about humanity first, and we are singlehandedly propelling mankind to the most advanced species. They are not going to put someone like that at risk, especially when they have a bit of a handle on us with Miranda being our sorta friend.
I'm guessing Saren or Benezia.
I meant more how the Alliance reacts to news of the attack and stuff like that. Or would that be more appropriate in the news segments?Reaction from other factions? Yeah. Though they way things got resolved (thanks dice) there's a lot less to say. I was expecting the fight to go on a bit longer (I'd have started summarizing a tad!) and maybe some one would have recorded things. (Seriously the fight was under the SR rules ~4.5 seconds long. That's a bit short but it was pretty damn fast).
Unless you meant something else.
Yeah most of that's pending the next update and will probably be in the news.
Short term reaction could be summed up as, "Well good job. Call us if you need any thing, or find something. We'll launch an investigation... but well... yeah." Didn't really seem worth mentioning.
Long term reactions would show up as news bits or as actionable events or something.
More black boxing? So long as they can't tell what is the tag and whats not...
Uxion
The Slightly Less Depressed
- Location
- Personal Hell
At this point, isn't our black box black boxed?
I was under the impression that was what the next level was.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
speaking of black boxing, overdoing it may make our corporation into a keystone of the galactic economy, we fall the galaxy follows not soon afterwards, which is also why i've been bouncing around the idea of releasing our totally obsolete tech to the human and citadel governments
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
I'm pretty sure the SA and Citadel governments could both make arc reactors if PI fell, and that's likely to hold true for most of the things we make by virtue of the patent process. I'd certainly expect it to be true for any possible keystone products.
- Pronouns
- Yes
Do they network with each other? If not can we fix it so they do without making them too vulnerable to ECM?
Because you can't use it for a serial number. Not for the number of Arc Reactors being sold.
No. The point of radioactive tracers is that they're impossible to scrum because they're not added on to something, they're trace elements added to the mix, the only way to scrub them would be to take apart the reactor down to constituent elements and built a new one.
However while you can encode some information in a tracer like that there's a distinctly limited number of detectable variations so the most it would do is give you a fix on when it was produced - which the palladium would already do.
How old exactly? We should be able to get a time down to fractions of a second for its production, although I suppose relativity could affect that a bit.
Well I'm now tempted to add a swarm logic tech to the computers tree (Geth? Geth). Problem is that a full networking setup needs some flexible signalling so ECM could at least counter the benefits. But know they aren't meant to swarm network.
The missiles were getting a ganging up bonus (well penalty to target defense, but samey). Each missile after the first was one point harder to evade. The effect even includes the Autocannon rounds that's a large part of why the second pass of the first four missiles was so effective. I was also treating the launchers as being twin linked so two could be fired in the same action at no penalty.
I was thinking in terms of adding trace element clusters like a bar code to the casing or some other part that wouldn't be effected by the modification. A 64 point system would cover more then enough combinations. Which was the part I suggested would be scrubbed or well... scrambled.
Time mark tracers wouldn't get scrubbed no. You might notice that the are distributed oddly from what their factory position should be though.
Paladium degradation is iffy as A) you can just replace the core and B) heavy use degrades at a different rate than idling. The accumulated byproducts may give a clue about usage as well.
A radiometric dating tag (which meh why not); Would indicate that the reactor's tag would have been calibrated on April 16th 2173* It could be an one of 670 odd reactors made that day and one of just shy of 5 thousand reactors shipped that week. Its from an early order though if one of the many interested parties is a front or the reactor got stolen along the way is had to tell.
*I'm not sure you could really just in time the tags down to the second as the calibration needs to be very precise. You need to know the exact amount of isotope at the time of production, but the isotope is always falling apart. At best you could calculate the tag's production time which I can see being calibrated on a daily basis. Or based on the standard adjusted isotope levels in the feed stock. Dynamically adjusting the isotope level at moment of production seems a little farfetched (well for now). But I know little about the subject.
Yes. They will certainly eat your cereal.
Disclaimer: Just to be very clear I'm not complaining about the update, I agree with Gaven it was very much a win, just some of the logic/physics of it.
Errrr. What?
Now I get Lol!Dice and that he had an Arc Reactor but I have trouble buying that he survived this. Hell I have trouble buying that he wasn't reduced to chunky salsa.
From earlier calculations 6 Pilums managed to hit the Tiger and at least one, more likely two, managed to hit the armor so it took 4 or 5 to take down the Tiger's shields.
These were vehicle grade shields so the kinetic barrier emitters would have been larger and capable of having more power pumped into them, something the Tiger would absolutely have had since it wasn't use it's Repulsors (biggest power hog) so it could easily throw 70GW (14x 5GW Arc Reactor) into the shields while still leaving 5GW for everything else.
Two Pilums detonating against infantry grade Kinetic Barriers, since they made it through the Biotic Barriers, should have blown right through them and the guy behind them.
That isn't even considering the G-force. Being thrown back hard enough to actually damage a lab wall, which are presumably made out of steel/concrete or some future equvilant, should involve enough G-forces to pulp the guy inside the suit.
Errrr. What?
Now I get Lol!Dice and that he had an Arc Reactor but I have trouble buying that he survived this. Hell I have trouble buying that he wasn't reduced to chunky salsa.
From earlier calculations 6 Pilums managed to hit the Tiger and at least one, more likely two, managed to hit the armor so it took 4 or 5 to take down the Tiger's shields.
These were vehicle grade shields so the kinetic barrier emitters would have been larger and capable of having more power pumped into them, something the Tiger would absolutely have had since it wasn't use it's Repulsors (biggest power hog) so it could easily throw 70GW (14x 5GW Arc Reactor) into the shields while still leaving 5GW for everything else.
Two Pilums detonating against infantry grade Kinetic Barriers, since they made it through the Biotic Barriers, should have blown right through them and the guy behind them.
That isn't even considering the G-force. Being thrown back hard enough to actually damage a lab wall, which are presumably made out of steel/concrete or some future equvilant, should involve enough G-forces to pulp the guy inside the suit.
Very in character!
There are a few reasons. One of which is Shadowrun and what a anti-tank weapons does. 16 Damage and -2 Armor piercing for people ) and -6 for Vehicles. Of course that's not what yours do. I added more damage (Mk II was at 24) and upped the AP ( -10 and let it be -5 vs people). That should be enough to tell a MBT to go die barring shields. Now maybe that's too low but it seemed like enough. Humans rarely have more that 11 damage they can take (most take 9). One book lists the tankest of SR MBTs at 24 hull damage. A fact I didn't know until I wanted to check for this post. They'd take two Pilums to kill using those stats. SR millspec is rather an odd field though as it made to be way better than normal game items... (I've been using the more standard numbers they're... saner.) Almost any other vehicle would die in one shot (Which is why I used the numbers I did).
Of course I'd argue that ME vehicles are built a bit differently what with shields and all.
Others reason involve details of what happened and a few effects they guy was running. Some of them involve the arc-reactor and his biotics others are explained by his other abilities that his nature provides him (her/it/whatever). Of course he's dead and vaporized so its a mystery and all that.
Also inserting side data point 2 Newtons = 1 ME3 damage point looking at the effects of biotic charge. Interesting... must... resist... tangential math!
The Tiger's shield's never dropped the Pilums that hit armor bypassed successfully. I think that this may be where your getting a little confused. The one that hit the shields detonated and drained it a bit that's all. Pilum's magic in large part comes from the shield bypass. As for shield power to a large degree I consider the shield projectors (number/amount of eezo) not the reactors the limit of shield power when you stick an arc-reactor into the system. Obviously there are break points between the Infantry and vehicle level. But a shield using 'only' a full 5GW is pretty BS.
The missiles did not make it though the biotic barriers, they made it into. The Maelstrom barrier had literal volume (Ranged from ~0.5 meters to about a 1 meter around the guy). The missiles were inside the barrier itself when they went off. The missiles were about to be ripped to shreds and do nothing, but when the shield's went to near zero the VIs figured hey now would be a good time to boom*. Ultimately dealing their damage to the barrier. Same basic thing happened to the super grenade/bomb it exploded in the mass of the barrier. Textual clarity fail
. I'm not sure how to explain that without a some what unwieldy construction in text. I thought I had, but I guess there are a few ways to take that. Maybe "inside the mass of".*Technically this was part of some anti-AMS work. The idea being that if the shield goes to zero and the missile is close to the target it might as well go off. Close enough is better than not at all. I rolled a die to see if they'd boom.
Oksy I'll admit here that when I did the combat I was just running dice and numbers. G-forces? What are those. SR has no G-forces.
That said talking that into account this is my answer:
"It probably should have. Some how it didn't. I mean that with all in universe seriousness. Maybe some inertial compensator work? To bad he's vapor now."
Or yes even if I had been running g-forces the same thing would have happened.
Also some of the wall damage was from the barrier around him shredding things. Actually I was hoping that early perception check would pass so I could point stuff like that out... Damn dice.
I will note that the being knocked around was an addition I added, SR rules just have you being knocked down. And I was like > 40 damage in one go? Screw it you get to fly a bit. And then I had to make a couple of things up by looking that the ramming rules. Damaging walls in SR is also... weird.
Hope that help clear thing up. If at a point I should have been clearer (barring clarity failures due to failure to notice things or limited view points) let me know. If there are still issues fire away
Poor Revy. At least she has the pleasure of knowing the guy is gone gone gone.
...Um. Am I misunderstanding, I don't play Shadowrun, or does this mean AT weapons are not as good at penetrating infantry armor as tank armor? Because that strikes me a a very weird mechanical decision. The AP should really be either equal (assuming vehicle armor is rated on the same scale as Infantry) or higher (assuming different scales) because if it can punch through a couple inches of steel it can punch through a couple millimeters of it and have a lot more power when it comes out.
Damn you mysteries!
...Interesting. I will save this for future Math!
Ah. Right I'd forgotten about that.
Indeed. Hence why I said the IFV would have significantly more powerful shields since it can mount larger/more shield projectors and has more then enough power to run them at their design limits.
The missiles did not make it though the biotic barriers, they made it into. The Maelstrom barrier had literal volume (Ranged from ~0.5 meters to about a 1 meter around the guy). The missiles were inside the barrier itself when they went off. The missiles were about to be ripped to shreds and do nothing, but when the shield's went to near zero the VIs figured hey now would be a good time to boom*. Ultimately dealing their damage to the barrier. Same basic thing happened to the super grenade/bomb it exploded in the mass of the barrier. Textual clarity fail
*Technically this was part of some anti-AMS work. The idea being that if the shield goes to zero and the missile is close to the target it might as well go off. Close enough is better than not at all. I rolled a die to see if they'd boom.
So just to be clear; this guy was running two separate biotic effects (the warp around him that destroyed the missiles and the shield that absorbed the damage) correct? I'm pretty amazed. He must have been really overcharged for that to work since the most powerful barrier you can get in ME1 is 1,250 (Master Barrier + Barrier Specialization).
For comparison the ML-77 Missile Launcher from ME2 (no heavy weaps in ME1) does 350 base damage with a 1.25 multiplier against armor, shields, and most importantly barriers. So one missile does 437.5 damage. Now the base Pilum is noted as significantly smaller then warheads of similar power and the Pilum II is even more powerful so I figure saying it's at least twice as powerful as the ML-77 is pretty reasonable. So each missile should be doing ~875 and with two going off for a combined 1,750 would overwhelm even the most powerful normal Barrier.
On the other hand it has brought up an interesting contradiction:
The change from Anti-matter to just "more boom" makes sense and was discussed in thread but what about the other one? It's unclear what @Esbilon meant by "outrun PD weapons after they have hit" but my guess is some kind of either micro-FTL event or something weird like that. Whatever it is is pretty clear not a shield.
Also while I was looking for this quotes I found something else note worthy:
Auks said:
The first stage is designed to create a hole in kinetic barriers that the other stages use to penetrate them. Wouldn't that open up a gap in the biotic shield cloud as well?
Works for me.
That is something you could add into the post-combat debrief. After all it should be rather obvious that the material was ripped apart by a space-time warp rather then blunt force since they would create very different marks on the structure that would be detected upon close examination.
It does help.
Eezo lets you move faster than the speed of light, so the notion is.
1) Missile flies peacefully towards its target
2) Missile gets hit by rude point-defense
3) Missile engages superluminal drive after being hit, but before the point defense actually has time to destroy it.
4) Missile successfully hits target, even though the PD weapon should have take it out of commission.
Ah, new chapter finally.
So first...dice gods hate us it seems. Thankfully they hated that npc also.
Might be a good time for upgrade to Mk 2. We can always move it up the list and while some people want the Anti-starship Torpedoes for the ship we are going to make, there is also the possibility to buy existing missile systems from market. We do have good contacts with military, so it should be quite easy to get high tier equipment for temporary use.
Now, going back to part 2 of the event. Liara told us there is prothean cache in Intai'sei. Even though she did try to hide the fact from public for time being, it will eventually go out. Think we should call Admiral Hacket to tell there might be possible raid coming? Prothean stuff is big enough price to take risk for pirate raid.
Questions.
Would data from the armour scraps give us any insight to make new alloy and would military researchers like to get look at it?
So first...dice gods hate us it seems. Thankfully they hated that npc also.
Might be a good time for upgrade to Mk 2. We can always move it up the list and while some people want the Anti-starship Torpedoes for the ship we are going to make, there is also the possibility to buy existing missile systems from market. We do have good contacts with military, so it should be quite easy to get high tier equipment for temporary use.
Now, going back to part 2 of the event. Liara told us there is prothean cache in Intai'sei. Even though she did try to hide the fact from public for time being, it will eventually go out. Think we should call Admiral Hacket to tell there might be possible raid coming? Prothean stuff is big enough price to take risk for pirate raid.
Questions.
Would data from the armour scraps give us any insight to make new alloy and would military researchers like to get look at it?
- Pronouns
- Yes
Sounds good.
Which is why I was asking if this could be done without making them too vulnerable.
That's not how it works. Radioactive tracing would involve adding specific trace elements to the metal being cast/forged which are then thoroughly mixed in. You could then take a scraping of the part and run that through a spectroscope to get the exact isotope composition, which would tell you how old it is and from which batch.
Interesting. Adding isotopic tracing to this might be useful in that case.
Given that this is done in RL for nukes I'm sure it could be done. Not much point in calibrating things to that level if the decay rate varies, but it could be done.
Shadowrun armor is weird. First you make an attack roll and the defender makes a defense roll. Then the attacker adds the the amount the beat they defender by (assuming the did win instead of tying or missing) to the damage of the weapon(s). The Defender's armor is reduced by the weapon's AP. Then if the weapon has more damage than the armor the hit is "Physical" damage (aka normal hurty damage) if not its stun damage. Then the defender rolls their (reduced) Armor+Body and the damage is reduced by that much. Then the remaining damage is dealt to the defender. Oddly damage is never rolled.
Frankly I also think the AP switch is odd. I think its supposed to represent the missile directly hitting the tank, but AoEing the infantry. Oh and the things have significant AoE blasts. If fact the rule only cover the AoE/Scatter. I sorta rolled my eye and fiddled. And added the missile's ability to keep trying to hit!
I'm going to roll with those being direct hit and blast AP numbers. And the Pilums is not a blasty weapon its a concentrated AP weapon. Being close to the hit is bad, but maybe not to the level that SR has for AT weapons
.They're sort part of the same power if one has to get technical, but it could be looked at as Warp+Barrier. But yes really over charged. The guy was actively grounding. Most biotics only get a few static shocks from what I can tell. Annoying, but meh. They don't look like a Jacob's ladder after using some of their powers.
Frankly I read the and was like Ummm... what's that? I couldn't think of a way for that to make any sense literally barring time travel. So I took it to mean that the Eezo was meant to creating a repulsive field keeping the PD weapon away from the actual missile. AKA it "hits" but the missile can still out run it as it never contacts the missile itself. Of course you could just be like most people and call it a shield.
You could also conclude it has something to do with better maneuvering.
Frankly micro-FLT thingies... or phasing or what ever... eh there you know techs for that that aren't dirt cheap.
So yes I translated that into something that made sense. Eezo generates a defense=>Shield. But see below.
So there are a few factors at play here. One the bypass only works on shields or barriers below a given strength. What makes the Pilum so effective is that it has enough power to bypass the shields of its most common targets. Part of what happened with the tiger is that the Tiger shield were just strong enough that it cause a high number of failures. Thus the MKII update. At the level of this engagement it doesn't matter that much, but it worth mentioning.
Secondly is the issue of geometry. The bypass is meant to punch a hole in a fairly thin projection. It triggers and burns its power to punch the hole and yay Job done. The cloud as it were is not thin, so the bypass has to borrow though a thick layer of dark energy. I'm not sure if the bypass was intended to be a warp or a mass increase, both methods are used by disruptor. However the mass increase is the method that disruptor uses to bypass (don't ask how it works, space magic!), so maybe that one?
Anyway that lead to the last issue the nature of the field being bypassed. The leading warhead stage needs to actively lead to open the wake hole behind it. Now if the mass increasing theory is correct the bypass element basically has shield around it that its using to form a wake. In which case the warp lovingly eats away at it as the bypass trys to penetrate the "mass". I don't think it has enough HP. If its instead a warp then then you warping a warp which is not an effective or worthwhile idea.
I think that makes sense and is consistent with the technobabble.
Sure no problem.
That would require the projectile to not be in the way of the missile. And would be an in atmosphere FTL missile right? Because both of those sound like serious issues. Not to mention the actual need to accelerate to FTL.
Also mad timing skillz, just in time detection and only works on some PD.
It kinda feel like I should say "get ultra-compact cores first and then we'll see" or "no".
On the other hand the general idea of dodging by going faster is fine. I'm not sure how the idea of varying the missile's speed and/or acceleration would balance out. Why only small pulses? Limited power I'd guess. So basically a sort of afterburner like effect. Not sure going fast enough to dodge as the hit is happening is sane though. Either in the acceleration or the air resistance department. Might be better in space.
The armor is basically one result of the super alloys tech. But not not really useful, you need to know how to make the stuff, knowing what its is comparatively trivial. Others might be interested in the material as proof that it can be done.
It a reasonable goal. Of course nothing's perfect. Just done use in in heavy E-war or against enemies that have you codes.
I'm under the impression that some radio-isotopes release detectible particles and thus can be tested for in non-destructive ways. If you turn the entire case then yeah its a radio-isotope infused case, yay. Just need to know how much material was there originally and you can figure out when it was made.
I was thinking that one would only use radio-isotopes in part of the case. You could drill holes and induction weld (Or what ever the method is called) in bits that have the right isotope bam binary label.
I'm not seeing a reason that you couldn't apply some of the techniques. Though I'd like to know more about the IRL use all I can find about it IRL is the medicinal and geological uses. Got something I can look at?
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FTL means that you can send information backwards in time, allowing the missile to speed up before it was hit, and thus only be deflected slightly so that it can still hit. And mad skillz are a given, Revy's the one who made these things after all.