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- Dual citizen of SV&SB
It will, but we're adding more things as we go.
Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)
- Thread starter Esbilon
- Start date
- Pronouns
- She/Her
In revelation, the Hastings deployed a team of 5 to investigate what happened on Sideon, one of which was Anderson who was also serving as the XO.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
I think that works - that was a frigate, so if we assume a section of eight men, Anderson took one of the two fireteams down.
The crew should be larger just to support ground actions and a full watch rotation.
How many roles do we actually need filled, compared to what a VI can take care of?
We'll need a command at all times, which is 3 people.
Weapons, sensors, communications, and pilot could possibly all be VI controlled, but I would say you want at least a couple actual people for that, which is another 6 to 12 people.
Definitely need an Engineer, more likely you would want 2 or 3 at a time, so another 3 to 9 people.
You'd probably also need a cook or two, a doctor, a decent team of marines (I'd go for at least 10, prefer 20 to 30), support for those marines (technicians and whatnot), etc.
I would also say the laser shouldn't be spinal mounted. I'd say we do something like this guy, where the final aperture for the laser is turreted to allow for a really good field of fire (as well as allowing it to stay precisely aimed even as you maneuver). The main body of the laser might take up a decent portion of the ship.
A boeing 747 is about 70 meters long. Normandy 1 was 155m long (as far as I can tell). So assume we have at least 8 times the interior volume of a 747 to work with for making a frigate.
I'm also inclined to challenge the conventional ship designs.
We don't need a really long linear ship (which is only needed for the mass accelerator length), which means we can use a shape that has higher internal volume for the same amount of armor - something closer to a sphere.
If we go with something that's essentially tear drop shaped, that gives us the best range of firing angles for the main laser (which is positioned on the point). 2 point defense turrets could also cover the entire ship, though I'd want to go with 5 or 6 of them at least, depending on how fast they can turn & deal with threats.
Some dimension comparisons.
Cylinder 155 long by 20 diameter
volume about 47,000 cubic meters
surface area 10,400 square meters
A teardrop with radius 25m (and a cone that has a point 40 m from the center)
volume about 59,000 cubic meters
surface area 9,600 square meters
So with about the same amount of armor we could have almost 30% more internal space. Squashing it a little bit would reduce that ratio, but would look a bit sleeker and make landing gear easier (if it needs that capability). Its main laser can fire in a huge arc, with only a 64 degree blindspot centered behind the ship.
Now, this approach does minimize surface area for radiating, so we might need to address that somehow. Easiest approach is to have deployable radiators that extend out from the back half (to not get in the way of the firing arc).
Considering the shape of the ship, it should be able to turn very quickly to keep stuff in the main firing arc.
As a secondary option, consider a similar ship but with two cones facing opposite each other (pointed port and starboard), each with their own laser. No blind spot, and a very large region where both weapons can fire, including both chasing and being chased.
How many roles do we actually need filled, compared to what a VI can take care of?
We'll need a command at all times, which is 3 people.
Weapons, sensors, communications, and pilot could possibly all be VI controlled, but I would say you want at least a couple actual people for that, which is another 6 to 12 people.
Definitely need an Engineer, more likely you would want 2 or 3 at a time, so another 3 to 9 people.
You'd probably also need a cook or two, a doctor, a decent team of marines (I'd go for at least 10, prefer 20 to 30), support for those marines (technicians and whatnot), etc.
I would also say the laser shouldn't be spinal mounted. I'd say we do something like this guy, where the final aperture for the laser is turreted to allow for a really good field of fire (as well as allowing it to stay precisely aimed even as you maneuver). The main body of the laser might take up a decent portion of the ship.
A boeing 747 is about 70 meters long. Normandy 1 was 155m long (as far as I can tell). So assume we have at least 8 times the interior volume of a 747 to work with for making a frigate.
I'm also inclined to challenge the conventional ship designs.
We don't need a really long linear ship (which is only needed for the mass accelerator length), which means we can use a shape that has higher internal volume for the same amount of armor - something closer to a sphere.
If we go with something that's essentially tear drop shaped, that gives us the best range of firing angles for the main laser (which is positioned on the point). 2 point defense turrets could also cover the entire ship, though I'd want to go with 5 or 6 of them at least, depending on how fast they can turn & deal with threats.
Some dimension comparisons.
Cylinder 155 long by 20 diameter
volume about 47,000 cubic meters
surface area 10,400 square meters
A teardrop with radius 25m (and a cone that has a point 40 m from the center)
volume about 59,000 cubic meters
surface area 9,600 square meters
So with about the same amount of armor we could have almost 30% more internal space. Squashing it a little bit would reduce that ratio, but would look a bit sleeker and make landing gear easier (if it needs that capability). Its main laser can fire in a huge arc, with only a 64 degree blindspot centered behind the ship.
Now, this approach does minimize surface area for radiating, so we might need to address that somehow. Easiest approach is to have deployable radiators that extend out from the back half (to not get in the way of the firing arc).
Considering the shape of the ship, it should be able to turn very quickly to keep stuff in the main firing arc.
As a secondary option, consider a similar ship but with two cones facing opposite each other (pointed port and starboard), each with their own laser. No blind spot, and a very large region where both weapons can fire, including both chasing and being chased.
Khaos
Baguette, wine and cheese
At some point, we'll be "it's so cute that once upon a time we cared about 50 research points".Very nice jobIt's so cute that Obediah cares about millions. I remember those days.
+50 Research points.
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hmm, that's a good point. 50 points isn't as much of an incentive when everything costs 1600.At some point, we'll be "it so cute that once upon a time we cared about 50 research points".
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So, I guess the plan is to spend a Personal action after we've built a prototype frigate to pull strings and demo it for the Alliance Navy, to get them to seriously consider our ultra-frigates.
As for getting a research bonus for cruiser and dreadnought designs, that's easy enough. Just ask for the services of their design bureau as consultants. It should provide a bonus to designing cruisers, and while ultra-frigates are great, our personal ride should definitely be a cruiserweight starship.
If we can deliver on promises,I wouldn't be shocked if we got a RFP for a dreadnought or a refit of existing dreads. They're such massive resource sinks that anything that made Alliance dreads more capable would be snapped up. Hell, make ours twice as capable as Turian dreads and the Alliance suddenly has the equivalent of 12 dreadnoughts in service. Hell, I'd be shocked if even just refitted dreadnoughts couldn't take 3:1 odds.
As for getting a research bonus for cruiser and dreadnought designs, that's easy enough. Just ask for the services of their design bureau as consultants. It should provide a bonus to designing cruisers, and while ultra-frigates are great, our personal ride should definitely be a cruiserweight starship.
If we can deliver on promises,I wouldn't be shocked if we got a RFP for a dreadnought or a refit of existing dreads. They're such massive resource sinks that anything that made Alliance dreads more capable would be snapped up. Hell, make ours twice as capable as Turian dreads and the Alliance suddenly has the equivalent of 12 dreadnoughts in service. Hell, I'd be shocked if even just refitted dreadnoughts couldn't take 3:1 odds.
If Dreads are defined by their spinal mount size (or other specific consideration(s)) how hard would it be to make a ship that is outside the treaty definition yet more than capable of the same functions?
I also wonder with such a superior response time to raiders with the new frigates if the Batarians might end up pushing for war if the wrong ship 'on perfectly legitimate duties' is taken/destroyed.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The only issue with this is that it adds a level of inefficiency to the design. The mirror in the turret will absorb part of the laser's power as heat, leading to extra cooling and a drop in beam power.
In fact, it may not be physically possible to create a mirror that can handle 3 TJ (correct me if I'm wrong). I was going to make an Omake where Revy goes into the technical details, but the gist of it is that I planned this type of laser to use a mass effect lens to focus the beam by utilising the refractive properties of the ME field... hmmm, it may be possible to turret this type of design.
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
Honestly, I'm kind of hoping for it. More likely than not the Council will decide this is strictly between humans and batarians and not lift a finger to help those slave-taking assholes as the Alliance shoves their collective foot so far up the batarians' asses they'll be tasting feet for years.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Let's not play letter of the law games with the militaristic aliens, shall we?
Well if we can make a mass effect shield that completely blocks lasers, we should also be able to make one that warps lasers with no mirrors involved.
As soon as we come out with functional military vessels that comparable in size and capability to existing dreads, that treaty will be updated. Then we either have to tear apart our new dreads, or face sanctions or something.
OTOH, I don't think it limits us from just saying "screw dreadnoughts" and just making that number of super dreadnoughts. The quarian liveships (and other large vessels) are very blatantly non military vessels.
Now, if we were to make a couple dozen mining / factory dreadnaught-sized ships with strictly defensive capabilities, X super dreads, and a ton of heavy cruisers we'd probably be fine.
Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
Remembering that the alliance does this Anyway with their carriers to no apparent effect, i wouldn't worry about it too much. At worst the redefine dreadnought (and either bump up how many humans can have or the humans sell off the old style ones) or add a new clause about (shiptype named for our not-dreadnought the same way dreadnoughts were originally just a battleship respec) numbers. (Which, at worst, stops us building more for the SA without building them for the turians/asari/salarians as well, which would be a Good thing, because, you know, reapers.)
Though, also, do remember dreadnoughts are limited mostly due to their planet wrecking abilities. Are our new ships going to actually be better at that, or will the planet's atmosphere, large volume, large mass, large surface area, and in the case of planets like earth, massive natural heatsinks, render them actually Less effective at damaging planets?
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Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
Today the Treaty of Farixen, tomorrow the Geneva Convention and the UN Charter.
- Location
- Dual citizen of SV&SB
"Aw, come on! Why do they keep updating Ancient documents every year to block my newer inventions! This is Sabotage!"
"Revy, last year was your not!Dreadnaught being added to the Fairfaxen treaty. This year it was Nanobots being added to the Geneva conventions. Why on earth does this surprise you?"
"We're not on earth, silly, we're on mindoir."
"Revy, last year was your not!Dreadnaught being added to the Fairfaxen treaty. This year it was Nanobots being added to the Geneva conventions. Why on earth does this surprise you?"
"We're not on earth, silly, we're on mindoir."
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- She/Her
Alas, weaponized nanotech is already a Tier II WMD under the Citadel Conventions.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
"Third galaxy". Really? That makes... zero sense, given the origin of "third world" is "not aligned with either of the two major superpowers of the day" ("first world" being synonymous with "western world" entirely due to being the origin of the terms.). Someone wasn't thinking things through when they wrote that...
Always the Andromedans scum.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
So...wait the year it will take for the ultra-frigates and release those, or wait even longer?
I'd say wait a year. Prepare all the technology, then construct the technological leap of the frigate. Lay in some political preparatory work (talk to, say, Anderson, in secret, about introducing a revolutionary new ship soon), but only release the thing when it's done.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
Yup, I think a fair number people agree with that. Thing is, our shipyards will be ready a couple quarters before then - do we make two or three "standard" frigates for ourselves to tide us over in the meantime?
I figured we could skip that, and instead let CH make use of the facility - make some quick cash that way in the interm. For defenses, we can just buy a few Gladius fighters and keep a flight each at Elysium and Mindoir. Espilon even confirmed that we could buy them and then refit them in our factories so our personal versions will be the "B" type from Uber's original design, which made use of repulsors.
I figured we could skip that, and instead let CH make use of the facility - make some quick cash that way in the interm. For defenses, we can just buy a few Gladius fighters and keep a flight each at Elysium and Mindoir. Espilon even confirmed that we could buy them and then refit them in our factories so our personal versions will be the "B" type from Uber's original design, which made use of repulsors.