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Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)

Datakim said:
At that point we could demand authorization and delay. If they attack at that point we could still probably get away with it (since odds are "I AM A SPECTRE!", is a common enough intimidation tactic).

However if its a confirmed spectre, things get a lot more complicated.
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You seem to be forgetting that normal citizens are essentially class citizens compared to spectres, they are well within their rights to do anything they want in completion of their objective and only answer to the council, Saren specifically has a rep for extreme collatoral damage.

If we attack them claiming we didn't know they were a spectre would just make us look stupid, after all what's stopping us from destroying evidence of the spectre confirming their ID?
 
Leingod said:
I'm going to hope for Jondam Bau, actually. Be nice to deal with a Spectre who doesn't think "people skills" and "investigation" are euphemisms for shooting things.
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UberJJK said:
I actually liked him. My favorite Spectre, besides Shepard obviously. Sadly it's 2173, thirteen years before ME3. He's probably way too young to be a Spectre.
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In my head canon there are different sorts of Spectres there are your Shepards and Sarens you send them if you need one man armies to fuck shit up, Jondam Bau is of the sort you send if you need subtle shit done.
 
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Look, we can stop this argument - it's pointless.

If a random intruder is detected, we kill them. If they are a Spectre, we will fail, and they will ID themselves. On confirmation, we give them the tour they want, send them on their way. Not a big deal.
 
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Qazplm said:
In my head canon there are different sorts of Spectres there are your Shepards and Sarens you send them if you need one man armies to fuck shit up, Jondam Bau is of the sort you send if you need subtle shit done.
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That's not head canon, that is actual canon.

Doesn't matter, Bau is still too young at this point.
 
Van Ropen said:
Look, we can stop this argument - it's pointless.

If a random intruder is detected, we kill them. If they are a Spectre, we will fail, and they will ID themselves. On confirmation, we given them the tour they way, send them on their way. Not a big deal.
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Meh, even if they don't properly ID the law is on their side.

It's all about incentives, if you're on a colony doing some illegal shit and a spectre demands access, if killing them and altering the records so it looms like they never ID'ed could give you time to destroy any evidence of the stuff the spectre was investigating, and allow you to get off scot free, what would you do?
 
...who is arguing that the law isn't on their side?

The point was that if we kill them before they ID, things could be problematic...that is exceedingly unlikely, and even if it did there would be no overt penalties.
 
Van Ropen said:
...who is arguing that the law isn't on their side?

The point was that if we kill them before they ID, things could be problematic...that is exceedingly unlikely, and even if it did there would be no overt penalties.
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Yes there would be penalties, spectres are not required to ID themselves, they are literally above the law, including the laws which require officers to present ID.
 
Carrnage said:
Yes there would be penalties, spectres are not required to ID themselves, they are literally above the law, including the laws which require officers to present ID.
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Their status as being exempt from laws when in pursuit of their mission is written into citadel law I imagine therefore they aren't really above the law.
 
Carrnage said:
Yes there would be penalties, spectres are not required to ID themselves, they are literally above the law, including the laws which require officers to present ID.
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That might be technically true, but IF a spectre did not ID himself and IF we somehow got in a lucky shot and the council started complaining, its guaranteed that the alliance would claim the council sacrificed the spectre in order to have a justified reason to capture Revy. Or something similar.

And since this is a strategy that could be used on basically every other important official in the galaxy (give mook spectre status, send spectre without id to die, identify spectre afterwards and demand official surrender of the person you want under the law), it would basically unleash an epic shitstorm that would probably result in the council being forced to submit on the matter.
 
Qazplm said:
Source? It would be interesting to look at
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Spectres act in any way they see fit, either with careful diplomacy or ruthless force.
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There are apparently diplomancer spectres.

Carrnage said:
Yes there would be penalties, spectres are not required to ID themselves, they are literally above the law, including the laws which require officers to present ID.
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Yeah, and how do you hold someone guilty of just letting their security systems run?

They are exempt from laws requiring them to ID themselves, yes - so if it comes up later (after their infiltration), they are guilty of nothing. If they die during the course of their mission? Guess they didn't deserve the rank after all.
 
Qazplm said:
Their status as being exempt from laws when in pursuit of their mission is written into citadel law I imagine therefore they aren't really above the law.
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Functionally they are they only answer to the council hell, in canon shepard could blatantly snub the council and not suffer any consequences.
Van Ropen said:
Yeah, and how do you hold someone guilty of just letting their security systems run?
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I believe the common earth law equivalent would be "gross negligence resulting in death" ie manslaughter.
 
Qazplm said:
Their status as being exempt from laws when in pursuit of their mission is written into citadel law I imagine therefore they aren't really above the law.
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They are answerable to the Council, but no actual statutes binding the various council races apply to them.

Carrnage said:
I believe the common earth law equivalent would be "gross negligence resulting in death" ie manslaughter.
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That is really fucking stupid. It's a security system, if they die in it, that is their fault.

We are only guilty of anything if we knowingly kill a spectre, which only happens if they ID themselves. They don't have to of course, and they don't and sneak in, they suffer no consequences - but if they don't, then die, that's on them.

Now sure, the Council would look at us funny - but nothing overt would happen.
 
Van Ropen said:
That is really fucking stupid. It's a security system, if they die in it, that is their fault.

We are only guilty of anything if we knowingly kill a spectre, which only happens if they ID themselves. They don't have to of course, and they don't and sneak in, they suffer no consequences - but if they don't, then die, that's on them.

Now sure, the Council would look at us funny - but nothing overt would happen.
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From the council's and a legal pointnof view what's stopping us from killing them and destroying al, evidence of them ID'ing themselves?
 
Carrnage said:
From the council's and a legal pointnof view what's stopping us from killing them and destroying al, evidence of them ID'ing themselves?
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Nothing. Which is why the investigation will continue, and no doubt be harsher than before. That doesn't mean we will be punished overtly though.

That interpretation opens even greater loopholes.
 
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If we act in such a way that benefits the citadel species as a whole then we shouldn't have to worry about STG or Spectre assassination attempts and other annoying stuff, still we need to also act in way that allows for the Alliance to keep their edge so we wont have to deal with Cerberus sabotaging us.
 
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Qazplm said:
If act in such a way that benefits the citadel species as a whole then we shouldn't have to worry about STG or Spectre assassination attempts and other annoying stuff, still we need to also act in way that allows for the Alliance to keep their edge so we wont have to deal with Cerberus sabotaging us.
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Definitely. That was the whole argument behind patenting the Arc Reactor in Citadel Space, and finishing Advanced Blackboxing before releasing the Repulsor - we should be able to maintain that sort of balance.
 
Difference between spectres and STG?. Spectres are lone Wolfs, easily disappear. STG have backups, with even their backups. Kill one, and you can bet. They have group task to warn and call the rest. Basically its not the Spectres we have to fear, but STG.
 
Lone Wolf 666 said:
Difference between spectres and STG?. Spectres are lone Wolfs, easily disappear. STG have backups, with even their backups. Kill one, and you can bet. They have group task to warn and call the rest. Basically its not the Spectres we have to fear, but STG.
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Spectres operate as lone wolves most of the time, yes, but the Council often sends them out wherever they need them. If one of their operatives fails a mission and "disappears," you can bet they're going to send one or even two or three more Spectres in to check out what went wrong and do the mission the first guy failed. And if they fail you may see something not seen since the krogan rebellions; Spectres actually working as a full-fledged team. Sh*t blew up when that happened.
That said, the Council's more likely to try doing things out in the open at first if they actually suspect us of secretly hoarding a prothean beacon.
 
Qazplm said:
If we act in such a way that benefits the citadel species as a whole then we shouldn't have to worry about STG or Spectre assassination attempts and other annoying stuff, still we need to also act in way that allows for the Alliance to keep their edge so we wont have to deal with Cerberus sabotaging us.
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I think the original idea was that once Revy starts throwing crazy invention after crazy invention out there, the first assumption might be less "she is a super-prodigy on a level never seen before in the galaxy, ever" and more "she found a usable prothean beacon or equivalent and is just selling ancient tech as her own inventions". The players know its the first, but the council might well suspect the second. And if they assume the second, they would be less interested in Revy, and more interested in whatever source of tech they falsely think we have.

Thats when they might send spectres to acquire this "beacon", so they can gain all the benefit without having to worry about us at all. And if they send someone like Saren, he might not care overly much if Revy dies in the process. Especially if he is already working for Sovereign.
 
Datakim said:
I think the original idea was that once Revy starts throwing crazy invention after crazy invention out there, the first assumption might be less "she is a super-prodigy on a level never seen before in the galaxy, ever" and more "she found a usable prothean beacon or equivalent and is just selling ancient tech as her own inventions". The players know its the first, but the council might well suspect the second. And if they assume the second, they would be less interested in Revy, and more interested in whatever source of tech they falsely think we have.

Thats when they might send spectres to acquire this "beacon", so they can gain all the benefit without having to worry about us at all. And if they send someone like Saren, he might not care overly much if Revy dies in the process. Especially if he is already working for Sovereign.
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You do realize if they do this then the Alliance will leave citadel along with a ton of other species?
 
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