Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)

[UberJJK]

I am pretty damn sure it's wrong. 2GW produces 2 GJ of energy per second. Tungsten has vaporization heat of 774 kJ per mole. This mean that, assuming 100% efficiency, forgetting about melting and solid heat up parts, one could vaporize 2000000/774=2583 moles of tungsten. This gives us 2583×184=475452 grams of tungsten. Tungsten's density is between 17.6 and 19.2 tons per cubic meter depending on its state. This means that 2 GW second long pulse could vaporize, at most, 475452/17600000=0.027 cubic meters. Realistically it would be about an orser of magnitude smaller, perhaps smaller.

I think the calculator has problems with duty cycle on/off ratio moved into infinity.

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Not an issue with the duty cycle. Since even at 0.5 it's still penetrating 9km.

But lets do the math!

The formula, as far as I can tell, for the area of a laser beam at distance is:

A = π * (D * tan(θ/2))2​

Where D is the distance to the target and θ is the beam divergence angle.

θ is given by:

θ = 1.22 L/RL​
Where L is the wavelength of the beam and RL​ is the radius of the lens. ​
So:​
θ = 1.22 * 0.0000004/1 = 1.22 * 0.0000004 = 0.000000488​
A = π * (10,000 * tan(0.000000488/2))2​​
A = π * (10,000 * tan(0.000000244))2​​
A = π * (10,000 *2.44e-7)2​​
A = π * (0.00244)2​
A = π *5.9536e-6​
A = 0.0000187m^3​

Assuming the Tungsten starts at 25C it must first be heated to 3422C. That's a 3,397 degree increase. At 24.27 joules per degree per mole that's 82,445J per mole.

Then it needs to melt which as per it's heat of fusion takes an additional 35,300J per mole.

This is followed by an additional 2,508C climb in temperature to it's boiling point which requires 60,869J per mole.

Finally it boils away for another 774,000J. Bringing the total energy required up to 952,614J/mol.

I specified 2GW for 1.2 seconds which gives a total energy of 2,400,000,000J. Divided by the heating energy gives 2,519 moles.

Tungsten's molar mass is 183.85 grams which multiplied by 2,519 moles give a total mass of 463,187 grams.

Using the 19.25g/cm^3 density, since that's what it would have been at while solid armor, gives a total volume of 24,062cm^3 or 0.024062m^3.

So now we know the volume of Tungsten vaporized and the area of the beam we can calculate the penetration (D) of the beam.

0.024062 = D * 0.0000187
D = 0.024062/0.0000187 = 1,287m = 1.2km.

I'm not quite sure what they did wrong to get such a wildly different answer but they are still right in that it's kilometer range penetration.

It's important to remember even through it's over a kilometer long the hole is only like 2.4 microns in radius.

 

[Yog]

I may be mistaken, but I think that the radius of the lens = initial radius of the beam.

A=π*(R+D*tan (θ/2))^2

Even leaving that aside, the heat wouldn't spread in a perfect cylinder, as the evaporating armor would disperse it everywhere.

 

[Chargone]

Of course, given that ships aren't armoured all the way through, and are unlikely to have armoured hulls over 100 meters thick (more likely several layers of single digit thickness, no? Or less), and are probably some alloy that's better at surviving the standard weaponary of the day (mass accelerators) than tungsten*, with only secondary consideration given to laser-proofing, if that, it's probably safe to say it would, none the less, make a decent hole in an enemy ship?

*or not, if the weapons are effective enough to make hull armour a waste of time given that shields are a thing.

 

[UberJJK]

I may be mistaken, but I think that the radius of the lens = initial radius of the beam.

A=π*(R+D*tan (θ/2))^2

Click to shrink...

I found a different equation:
RT​ = 0.61 * D * L / RL​

Where RT​ is the radius of the beam at the target, D is the distance from the target, L the wavelength, and RL​ the radius of the lens.

RT​ = 0.61 * 10,000 * 0.0000004 /1 = 0.61 * 10,000 * 0.0000004 = 6,100 * 0.0000004 = 0.00244m

A = 0.00244^2 * Pi = 0.0000187m^2

Admittedly it's from the same place I got the area formula (Project Rho) so it could be wrong. /shrugs.

Even leaving that aside, the heat wouldn't spread in a perfect cylinder, as the evaporating armor would disperse it everywhere.

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Very true. My point however was that we're talking about a pretty devastating laser strike. I could have instead said that each blast is basically dumping the energy equvilant of a tomahawk cruise missile directly into the ship and with it's ability to completely ignore kinetic barriers it's going to be devastating.

 

[nightblade]

If we do make an AI we should do what Dr. Light did to make sure x wouldn't rampage. I wonder if we can make megaman tech.

 

[Yog]

I found a different equation:
RT​ = 0.61 * D * L / RL​

Where RT​ is the radius of the beam at the target, D is the distance from the target, L the wavelength, and RL​ the radius of the lens.

RT​ = 0.61 * 10,000 * 0.0000004 /1 = 0.61 * 10,000 * 0.0000004 = 6,100 * 0.0000004 = 0.00244m

A = 0.00244^2 * Pi = 0.0000187m^2

Admittedly it's from the same place I got the area formula (Project Rho) so it could be wrong. /shrugs.

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I remembered this problem from my physics course. It has R+...

I'll attempt arguments / explanarion:

1) The formula you found assumes that the initial radius of the beam is negligeably small / that the widening is far bigger than the initial radius. With the lens radius of 1 m and a distance of 10km it's not true

2) at a distance 0 the size of the beam doesn't become 0 - even common sense says so. At the distance of 0m from the laser emitter, the diameter of the beam is the diameter of the lens.

I remembered this problem because it was an optimization one - what's the smallest diameter of a laser spot that we could project to the moon. You essentially have R_final=R_initial+constant/R_initial. From here you csn find the smallest diameter of the beam.

 

[Tabron89]

Of course, given that ships aren't armoured all the way through, and are unlikely to have armoured hulls over 100 meters thick (more likely several layers of single digit thickness, no? Or less), and are probably some alloy that's better at surviving the standard weaponary of the day (mass accelerators) than tungsten*, with only secondary consideration given to laser-proofing, if that, it's probably safe to say it would, none the less, make a decent hole in an enemy ship?

*or not, if the weapons are effective enough to make hull armour a waste of time given that shields are a thing.

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Actually they use a titanium/tungsten alloy that has been forged in 2X Earth's gravity or higher (thanks to eezo) so it has a much higher density for it's thickness.

Just remember that the closest thing they have to 'indestructable armour' is carbon nano-tubes and diamonds that have been crushed together in high gravities.

No synthetic stable atoms anywhere near.

The ablative armour is even worse, it's just slabs of the stuff hung in between two armour layers, all you need to do is go over the heat limit of whatever is connecting the panels to the armour and it will fall away.

 

[Pai]

Woah, math fight. Would hate to see some number crunching on the giant doom lazers like in sword of the stars. So far here its been tiny little things.

 

[UberJJK]

1) The formula you found assumes that the initial radius of the beam is negligeably small / that the widening is far bigger than the initial radius. With the lens radius of 1 m and a distance of 10km it's not true

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I hate it when formula are given out without the appropriate assumptions like this attached.

With this explanation I agree that it does make more sense for the formula to be:
A=π*(R+D*tan (θ/2))^2

So applying that the area is instead:

A=π*(1+0.00244)^2
A = π * 1.00244^2
A = π * 1.0048859536
A = 3.16m^2

Which of course only gives a penetration of:

0.024062 = D * 3.16
D = 0.024062/3.16
D = 0.0076m = 7.6mm

Even less if we the super high-density Tungsten described above.

I could just lower the lens size until we get a more optimal combination of hole size and penetration depth but there is an easier solution.

We should have Variable Wavelength Lasers tech by the time the Cabira is released so the lasers should be VWLs.

From what I understand about 10Gys of full body radiation will lead to rapid incapacitation followed by death. For a 100kg person that's 1kJ of energy.

2.4GW in a focused beam a meter in radius would be enough to wipe out most the crew if swept across the length of the ship.

Alternatively if we swing through the other end of the spectrum we could hit the crew with an intense burst of microwave energy.

While literally boiling them is out of the question, 2.4GW could only boil like 9 people, jumping the temperature up to 50C would be more then enough to kill any human, and presumably most aliens, and there would be enough energy to kill 400+ people.

Times that by two for the two lasers and pretty much everything smaller then a dreadnaught lost all it's crew and even dreadnaughts have lost a significant chunk of their crew.

Of course it wouldn't be quite as effective as that since there would likely be a lot of energy wasted on heating water in other things in the ship but it would still be bad.


But the long and short of it is that whether in regular laser more, gamma ray mode, or microwave mode an alpha strike from the Cabira's lasers would be devastating. Especially combined with it's missiles and mass accelerator.

 

[Uxion]

What was the last update?

 

[Yog]

I hate it when formula are given out without the appropriate assumptions like this attached.

With this explanation I agree that it does make more sense for the formula to be:
A=π*(R+D*tan (θ/2))^2

So applying that the area is instead:

A=π*(1+0.00244)^2
A = π * 1.00244^2
A = π * 1.0048859536
A = 3.16m^2

Which of course only gives a penetration of:

0.024062 = D * 3.16
D = 0.024062/3.16
D = 0.0076m = 7.6mm

Even less if we the super high-density Tungsten described above.

I could just lower the lens size until we get a more optimal combination of hole size and penetration depth but there is an easier solution.

Click to shrink...

Well, one should note that this is a theoretical best case situation, or so called "difraction limited mode". In practice it'll be worse. But yes, beam optimization is quite possible - one would need a variable diameter lens (so the laser could be adjusted for various distances to achieve the tightest spot possible), but that shouldn't be a huge problem.

We should have Variable Wavelength Lasers tech by the time the Cabira is released so the lasers should be VWLs.

From what I understand about 10Gys of full body radiation will lead to rapid incapacitation followed by death. For a 100kg person that's 1kJ of energy.

2.4GW in a focused beam a meter in radius would be enough to wipe out most the crew if swept across the length of the ship.

Click to shrink...

Besides killing people, hard gamma radiation lasers would also fry all but the most hardened (vacuum tubes ahoy!) electronics. There is just one problem with hard radiation weaponry: acute radiation poisioning is a NASTY way to go. Very nasty, and not instantaneous (it takes several minutes even for the insane doses). It might get banned under some agreements on humane warfare.

But the long and short of it is that whether in regular laser more, gamma ray mode, or microwave mode an alpha strike from the Cabira's lasers would be devastating. Especially combined with it's missiles and mass accelerator.

Click to shrink...

Oh, completely agreed on the nastiness of armaments. This ship is likely to be the deadliest thing in its weight class by a huge margin.

 

[UberJJK]

There is just one problem with hard radiation weaponry: acute radiation poisioning is a NASTY way to go. Very nasty, and not instantaneous (it takes several minutes even for the insane doses). It might get banned under some agreements on humane warfare.

Click to shrink...

As I pointed out the last time we had this discussion; it's space. All the ways of dying are nasty. Best you can hope for is to be killed in the initial strike or a reactor overload. Otherwise your going to die:

• Slowly from running out of air.
• Slowly from the cold.
• Rapidly from vacuum exposure
• Variably from rapid to slowly from shrapnel damage.

Or one of a thousand other ways like radiation exposure from a drive leak, cooking alive from a plasma leak, having your lungs freeze from a coolant leak, the list just goes on.

There are very few nice ways to die and odds are none of them are going to happen to the vast majority of the crew in space combat.


While I don't know much about the various war treaties the little I do know suggests that most of the bans tends to be on stuff that is either obscenely dangerous (biological weapons) or tends to leave survivors who live on with horrific injuries/side-effects (White Phosphorus, Radiation, Chemical Weapons).

I can't think of any bans on stuff that doesn't fall into one of those two categories.

 

[Van Ropen]

I... suspect my original argument was lost in the ensuing debate.

Okay, let's try again. My original argument is that we should make the push for researching AI--blue box and possibly pure software--before we play around with releasing other tech into the wild, like the Cabira and Eternal Youth. Our track record with the Arc Reactor patent and distribution alone should get us enough leeway from the Council to at least do the research, although we'll probably have to come back if we want to actually start birthing our own independent race of AI. The boost to our research rolls alone should be worth the effort of upping the priority of AI, but my main argument is that these other technologies we are pursuing are very possibly more controversial than artificial intelligence, and if anything at all goes wrong in their deployment then it'll make our push for AI research even more politically unlikely.

Besides, I want my snarky AI companion Cortana/Jarvis, darnit!

Click to shrink...

Everybody wants AI - but why would the Arc Reactor secure us goodwill from the Council? I see no reason they would allow is to begin AI research.

We are going to need a solid bargaining chip. Advanced Xenobiology? The perfect bargaining chip, and it fits in nicely in the last quarter of the frigate plan. That also gives time for our Peak Human treatment to spread, the first two batches will be done by then.

Obviously, we will need to placate the Alliance - researching Eternal Youth and releasing it at the same time as the Advanced Xenobiology should handle that nicely.

With all that political capital, we are free to research the next "big thing" - AI. Why do you think AI is important before we release other tech? Flawless FRM is included before anything is released.

 

[Deathwings]

What was the last update?

Click to shrink...

Revy looking upon Earth from orbit and deciding what she intent to do planetside once she's there.

 

[Shadows]

While literally boiling them is out of the question, 2.4GW could only boil like 9 people, jumping the temperature up to 50C would be more then enough to kill any human, and presumably most aliens, and there would be enough energy to kill 400+ people.

Click to shrink...

50C is the average temp of the engineering spaces aboard a US Navy vessel, and I don't see engineers dropping like flies whenever I go belowdecks.

 

[UberJJK]

50C is the average temp of the engineering spaces aboard a US Navy vessel, and I don't see engineers dropping like flies whenever I go belowdecks.

Click to shrink...

Outside Temperature != Internal Temperature.

At a core body temperature of 42C people start slipping into comas, at 43C people start dying, 44C and pretty much everyone dies although the record is 46.5C.

So a core body temperature of 50C, having all the water in your body heated to 50C is going to be about the same thing, is pretty much guaranteed to kill you.

 

[TheEyes]

Well, one should note that this is a theoretical best case situation, or so called "difraction limited mode". In practice it'll be worse. But yes, beam optimization is quite possible - one would need a variable diameter lens (so the laser could be adjusted for various distances to achieve the tightest spot possible), but that shouldn't be a huge problem.

Click to shrink...

Well yes, we're certainly not going to be relying on dragging a gigantic 1-meter lens into combat; that's the sort of thing I'd expect to see on a boondoggle vanity project like the ABL* (a megawatt-class chemical laser with a 1.5 meter lens; and they wonder why it's only good in lab conditions!), not on something you'd seriously expect to see on a battlefield. Lens size needs to be on the order of centimeters for ship-grade weapons, and millimeters for our handheld "miniaturized" versions.

BTW, you also kind of messed up your distance units. You were plugging in 10,000 for d, which would make your engagement distance 10 kilometers. That's basically knife range for a space fight, hell, that's about the right range for modern airborne jet fighters. If we need to get that close to the target then our stealth is not going to be effective, as by that point we're definitely in visual range so unless we've deployed The Invisible Man on our frigate's hull we'd be in trouble. We should be thinking in terms of 1000-10,000+ km for engagement ranges if we want stealthed alpha strikes; this BTW is why we need Terawatt lasers, maybe even Petawatt lasers.

*I call it this because a friend of mine, who worked on the project for a decade and got his doctorate in laser spectroscopy, called it that, and went on to say that laser weaponry won't ever work under our current understanding of how to generate laser beams.

Everybody wants AI - but why would the Arc Reactor secure us goodwill from the Council? I see no reason they would allow is to begin AI research.

We are going to need a solid bargaining chip. Advanced Xenobiology? The perfect bargaining chip, and it fits in nicely in the last quarter of the frigate plan. That also gives time for our Peak Human treatment to spread, the first two batches will be done by then.

Obviously, we will need to placate the Alliance - researching Eternal Youth and releasing it at the same time as the Advanced Xenobiology should handle that nicely.

With all that political capital, we are free to research the next "big thing" - AI. Why do you think AI is important before we release other tech? Flawless FRM is included before anything is released.

Click to shrink...

Cheap, clean, portable, abundant energy isn't a solid bargaining chip? I think you may be underestimating just how revolutionary holding 5 GW of energy production in the palm of your hand truly is; hell it would be a revolution if the Arc Reactor were just a battery that could store and release that kind of power. If you really think releasing Peak Alien medical tech would be necessary then that's fine too, though I don't think it is. Our continuing investment in exclusively Alliance military tech should placate them just fine; we're not even selling Legionary suits and flying, orbital-insertion supertanks to the wider galaxy (yet), just to the Alliance.

We want AI as early as possible for the following reasons:

1) Bonus to research rolls. Research VIs gave us bonuses to research, and Advanced Neural Interfaces and Optical Computing are supposed to as well. It stands to reason that true research AIs would give us an even bigger bonus.
2) Doing AI research right is kind of a holy grail in Mass Effect. The conflict with the Geth and the existence of the Reapers are both the disastrous consequences of AI research and development done horribly, horribly wrong. On the other hand, AI research done right can help diffuse both those looming conflicts, even head them off entirely: I'd love to hear Jarvis telling off Sovereign for being a genocidal asshole.
3) I want my AI Cortana, damn it!

Eternal Youth, on the other hand, is the kind of bombshell that we do not need this early in our career. Rather than being a source of political capital, it's very possible, I'd argue even likely though that seems to be the minority view here, that this tech in particular, along with Extremis and true immortality tech, is going to be more disruptive and destabilizing than it is to be a source of political capital. We definitely need to do it, and to release it as widely as possible, as that's the only moral thing to do, but we should really be sure we have truly solid defenses, both politically and militarily, when we do.

I'm updating the tech guide sheet with my counter-proposal now.

 

[Yog]

BTW, you also kind of messed up your distance units. You were plugging in 10,000 for d, which would make your engagement distance 10 kilometers. That's basically knife range for a space fight, hell, that's about the right range for modern airborne jet fighters. If we need to get that close to the target then our stealth is not going to be effective, as by that point we're definitely in visual range so unless we've deployed The Invisible Man on our frigate's hull we'd be in trouble. We should be thinking in terms of 1000-10,000+ km for engagement ranges if we want stealthed alpha strikes; this BTW is why we need Terawatt lasers, maybe even Petawatt lasers.

Click to shrink...

No we weren't. The calc was for FTL alpha strike strategy. There are no FTL sensors in Mass Effect. At least not ones that could be effectively used to counter such a tactic and see a charging ship before it's too close. QEC, on the other han,d can be used to give the ship targeting data and allow the pilot to navigate a jump into the knife-fighting range.

 

[Van Ropen]

Well yes, we're certainly not going to be relying on dragging a gigantic 1-meter lens into combat; that's the sort of thing I'd expect to see on a boondoggle vanity project like the ABL* (a megawatt-class chemical laser with a 1.5 meter lens; and they wonder why it's only good in lab conditions!), not on something you'd seriously expect to see on a battlefield. Lens size needs to be on the order of centimeters for ship-grade weapons, and millimeters for our handheld "miniaturized" versions.

BTW, you also kind of messed up your distance units. You were plugging in 10,000 for d, which would make your engagement distance 10 kilometers. That's basically knife range for a space fight, hell, that's about the right range for modern airborne jet fighters. If we need to get that close to the target then our stealth is not going to be effective, as by that point we're definitely in visual range so unless we've deployed The Invisible Man on our frigate's hull we'd be in trouble. We should be thinking in terms of 1000-10,000+ km for engagement ranges if we want stealthed alpha strikes; this BTW is why we need Terawatt lasers, maybe even Petawatt lasers.

*I call it this because a friend of mine, who worked on the project for a decade and got his doctorate in laser spectroscopy, called it that, and went on to say that laser weaponry won't ever work under our current understanding of how to generate laser beams.


Cheap, clean, portable, abundant energy isn't a solid bargaining chip? I think you may be underestimating just how revolutionary holding 5 GW of energy production in the palm of your hand truly is; hell it would be a revolution if the Arc Reactor were just a battery that could store and release that kind of power. If you really think releasing Peak Alien medical tech would be necessary then that's fine too, though I don't think it is. Our continuing investment in exclusively Alliance military tech should placate them just fine; we're not even selling Legionary suits and flying, orbital-insertion supertanks to the wider galaxy (yet), just to the Alliance.

We want AI as early as possible for the following reasons:

1) Bonus to research rolls. Research VIs gave us bonuses to research, and Advanced Neural Interfaces and Optical Computing are supposed to as well. It stands to reason that true research AIs would give us an even bigger bonus.
2) Doing AI research right is kind of a holy grail in Mass Effect. The conflict with the Geth and the existence of the Reapers are both the disastrous consequences of AI research and development done horribly, horribly wrong. On the other hand, AI research done right can help diffuse both those looming conflicts, even head them off entirely: I'd love to hear Jarvis telling off Sovereign for being a genocidal asshole.
3) I want my AI Cortana, damn it!

Eternal Youth, on the other hand, is the kind of bombshell that we do not need this early in our career. Rather than being a source of political capital, it's very possible, I'd argue even likely though that seems to be the minority view here, that this tech in particular, along with Extremis and true immortality tech, is going to be more disruptive and destabilizing than it is to be a source of political capital. We definitely need to do it, and to release it as widely as possible, as that's the only moral thing to do, but we should really be sure we have truly solid defenses, both politically and militarily, when we do.

I'm updating the tech guide sheet with my counter-proposal now.

Click to shrink...

Cheap portable energy we sell an absolute minimal of in Citadel Space, and at least double what we charge the Alliance?

It has their attention, but all it has done is made them more wary of us. Advanced Xenobiology helps them right off the bat - and is what I am saying will earn us the political capital for AI research.

Eternal Youth wasn't for political capital in Citadel Space, it is to forestall any bitching about us betraying humanity by strengthening her enemies.


You are drastically underestimating how AI research is looked at by the ME universe.

 

[Yog]

You are drastically underestimating how AI research is looked at by the ME universe.

Click to shrink...

Indeed. It is, bar none, the most controverisal topic in mass effect, both the universe and the story. On all levels it is the cornerstone of conflict. It is also the one topic where Asari are likely to be prejudiced and racist. I think I mentioned it before, but I think that's because they can't procreate with synthetics. For a race like asari, who are built (both by evolution and genetic engineering) to get along with, form bonds of trust and companionship with, to procreate with any and all life they can meet, with pretty much the only things they couldn't bear children with being Ardat-Yakshi, monstrosities of their mythology and a curse lurking in their genes, the thought of synthetics, who don't procreate with them, who are indifferent to them... That might be terrifying. In mass effect the frequent argument for why coexistence with A.I.s is imposable was "they don't need us". I firmly believe that it's an asari-born argument and that to Asari it has a meaning not generally thought about by other races.

 

[Shadows]

Also, I just noticed an entry in the tech tree...

"Planetary Siege Unit".

So, when're we making BOLOs capable of engaging IronSuits and high-orbital spacecraft alike?

 

[Van Ropen]

Yep - plus, we know the Protheans meddled with Asari development. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to instill a cultural hatred early on however possible.

 

[Erandil]

Indeed. It is, bar none, the most controverisal topic in mass effect, both the universe and the story. On all levels it is the cornerstone of conflict. It is also the one topic where Asari are likely to be prejudiced and racist. I think I mentioned it before, but I think that's because they can't procreate with synthetics. For a race like asari, who are built (both by evolution and genetic engineering) to get along with, form bonds of trust and companionship with, to procreate with any and all life they can meet, with pretty much the only things they couldn't bear children with being Ardat-Yakshi, monstrosities of their mythology and a curse lurking in their genes, the thought of synthetics, who don't procreate with them, who are indifferent to them... That might be terrifying. In mass effect the frequent argument for why coexistence with A.I.s is imposable was "they don't need us". I firmly believe that it's an asari-born argument and that to Asari it has a meaning not generally thought about by other races.

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"they don't need us". I firmly believe that it's an asari-born argument and that to Asari it has a meaning not generally thought about by other races.

That is actually the argument that Tali brings forth^^. I really don´t get this Asari hate from some of you constantly bring forth.


And do we actually have any Canon information about when the Citadel banned AIs? The Quarian and their research suggests that there was a period where the law was more lax.

 

[Yog]

That is actually the argument that Tali brings forth^^. I really don´t get this Asari hate from some of you constantly bring forth.

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Point of order, I quite like asari as a culture and as a species. And yes, it's Tali that voices it, but, well, extranet access (and memes) are pretty much universally available.

And do we actually have any Canon information about when the Citadel banned AIs? The Quarian and their research suggests that there was a period where the law was more lax.

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A.I.s aren't actually banned in the Citadel space per se. Their creation is heavily regulated. They were destroyed en mass during geth rebellion, but that was before any law could be passed concerning their status.

 

[TheEyes]

Cheap portable energy we sell an absolute minimal of in Citadel Space, and at least double what we charge the Alliance?

It has their attention, but all it has done is made them more wary of us. Advanced Xenobiology helps them right off the bat - and is what I am saying will earn us the political capital for AI research.

Click to shrink...

We can always up the number of units we sell of the Mk I Arc Reactor in Q3-4, once we have the spare manufacturing capacity. In fact I'd call that a good bargaining chip, though obviously we wouldn't paint it in quite those terms.

Eternal Youth wasn't for political capital in Citadel Space, it is to forestall any bitching about us betraying humanity by strengthening her enemies.

Click to shrink...

We're already providing unstoppably advanced military hardware exclusively to the Alliance. Eternal Youth isn't going to change that calculus. And are you seriously proposing we hold back Eternal Youth tech from the rest of the galaxy? The Salarians need that tech more than we do.

As for Advanced Xenobiology, okay I agree. My proposal thus amended delays some of the critical parts of the Cabira (1 quarter for most of the core tech, 2 quarters for the TIR shield) in favor of early access to Advanced Xenobiology and AI research. Under this proposal we finish AI Licensing Preparation research in 2174-Q1 and can start negotiations with the Council and Alliance to permit us do limited, internal-only AI research, stuff that we won't release as product in the short or even medium term (we're not making a servant race like the Geth were intended to be), gaining Advanced Xeno in Q2 for use as a bargaining chip if it's even needed.

We'll have all of Q1 and Q2 to negotiate with the Council and Alliance before it impacts our research schedule, so we should know which way the wind is blowing by then. If we get our limited research license, we can have Blue Box AI by the end of Q3, and Pure Software AI by the end of 2174, which should massively boost our research rolls. If they're not going for it, we can seamlessly transition to developing the Cabira without loss of research capital (we're spending the rest of Q2 and much of Q3 on Flawless Blackboxing in either case).

With or without AIs, we'd be looking at having everything to build a non-stealth version of the Cabira in 2175 Q2, one quarter later than UberJJK proposed, with the addition of TIR, Terajoule lasers, the third generation Arc reactor needed to power those lasers, and the Mark III suit all coming up in Q3, with the massive bombshell of Eternal Youth coming in Q4.