Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)

They have a maximum lifespan of ten years, and are not, in fact, a space-faring race . I wouldn't be surprised to learn that vorcha don't receive formal (or any) education at all. So it's arguable, really.

Actaully it's twenty years. Some Vorcha did get adopted and used as miners and some ended up being trained by humans and Turians to fly space fighters and fix a space station.

It becomes a question 'how much you can train a Vorcha' in those twenty years and cope with losing them to old age.

Most of the native ones just smack each other round the head until they get smarter and better at fighting than anything else.
 
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Genophage 3.0
I never mentioned the Genophage. That is what you are saying.

If I was the one who designed the Genophage for the Krogans I would have removed the "mountains of dead child corpses after each egg laying" bit and changed it to "Krogan females can have only a maximum of 2-4 eggs per egg laying that can only be done once in 12 months, all otherwise normally healthy eggs are laid and healthy children are born. The end". The problem would be solved anyway and without condemning the Krogans to extinction if no Wrex&company were around.
 
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I never mentioned the Genophage. That is what you are saying.

If I was the one who designed the Genophage for the Krogans I would have removed the "mountains of dead child corpses after each egg laying" bit and changed it to "Krogan females can have only a maximum of 2-4 eggs per egg laying that can only be done once in 12 months, all otherwise normally healthy eggs are laid and healthy children are born. The end". The problem would be solved anyway and without condemning the Krogans to extinction if no Wrex&company were around.
So would anyone else who was sane. There was obviously a reason they didn't go with that - my money is on some facet of the Krogan regenerative system fucking things up.
 
So would anyone else who was sane. There was obviously a reason they didn't go with that - my money is on some facet of the Krogan regenerative system fucking things up.

Or it was simply easier/faster to make them have miscarriages then anything else. Remember they were losing a war. It was very like a case of the genophage been the first thing that worked.

My bet is it worked by supercharging the Krogan immune system. It doesn't get regenerated away since for the individual Krogan it's a good thing since it makes them even less vulnerable to diseases.

But it causes countless miscarriages because the overactive immune system attacks and kills the child 99.9% of the time.
 
Or it was simply easier/faster to make them have miscarriages then anything else. Remember they were losing a war. It was very like a case of the genophage been the first thing that worked.

My bet is it worked by supercharging the Krogan immune system. It doesn't get regenerated away since for the individual Krogan it's a good thing since it makes them even less vulnerable to diseases.

But it causes countless miscarriages because the overactive immune system attacks and kills the child 99.9% of the time.
Possible - but I got the impression that the completed genophage was sitting around for a while before they decided to deploy it.
 
Possible - but I got the impression that the completed genophage was sitting around for a while before they decided to deploy it.

Really? Because I got the opposite impression. The Salarians created it and told the Turians it was a weapon of last resort, likely intending to try and create other better weapons. The Turians went "Weapon that can stop the Krogan? Excellent." and put it into use immediately.

At which point the Salarians were stuck dealing with the Turian's mess and ensuring that the Genophage never goes away, otherwise they'd be flooded by another endless horde of Angry!Krogan.

EDIT:
Here's from the wiki article on the genophage:
The genophage was originally developed by the salarians. They believed that, as the consequences would be so devastating, no one would ever deploy the genophage, thus wielding it as a deterrent. However, the salarians and the turians had different military attitudes, the turians only appreciating an approach of "massive retaliation". Once the genophage was complete, the turians immediately used it, and krogan numbers began to dwindle rapidly.
 
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Turian Military Strategy boils down to "Have peace talks ones that happen to be alive after the fact."

They'd fit in great on SV or SB.
 
Really? Because I got the opposite impression. The Salarians created it and told the Turians it was a weapon of last resort, likely intending to try and create other better weapons. The Turians went "Weapon that can stop the Krogan? Excellent." and put it into use immediately.

At which point the Salarians were stuck dealing with the Turian's mess and ensuring that the Genophage never goes away, otherwise they'd be flooded by another endless horde of Angry!Krogan.

So really....the only way we can stop the Krogan from going on a rampage is to do something similar to what Shepard did in canon: Get Bazara cured, bump up off Wreav, get Wrex to take over Urdnot and unify the Krogan then get the genophage cured wholesale.

.....

Hey, I was wondering....just how far behind/ahead are the Rachni when it comes to starships/firepower? I mean, those guys are supposed to be insanely good at building stuff like that aren't they?

Heh, Revy saves the Rachni, convinces them to open themselves up to trade in exchange for ship retrofits/replacements....

A Rachni tech hero would be hilarious at least.

Tali: Spi-Spiders! Spiders everywhere!
Revy: Tali! Meet...what was your name again?
????: *Skree*Click*Click*Skree*
Revy: Sorry my translator glitched. Mind if I call you 'Bob'?
'Bob': *Skree!* (translation: But I'm a girl!)
Revy: Bob it is then.
 
The galaxy and the Citadel has survived the fact that the Asari are all powerful biotics, the fact that the Drell posses perfect recollection, the fact that Vorcha can survive nearly everything and last but not least it has also survived the Krogan(who are quite similar to Peak Humans, if not even more powerful considering their lack of pain etc.) and peacefully coexisted with them for many years. It will almost certainly survive and accept the fact that humans will get more healthy and live longer.

Edit: There is nothing in the game or canon that suggests that the Citadel races would react aggressive against technological advancements within the boundaries of the current law. The Citadel races are neither conquerors nor suppressors, have shown great acceptance of all kinds of races no matter their possible advantages and have also shown a great respect to letting the other races/governments do as they want.
Everything you mentioned in the first paragraph is a source of interracial tensions in ME that have tentatively fallen into sort of a steady state, only because the wars over them in the past have not proven decisive. The release of gene therapies that seem to disproportionately favor the shorter-lived races very well could reignite tensions that lead to war in the past.

And let's not forget that genetic engineering is technically illegal, both in the Alliance and in Citadel space. Medi-gel specifically is mentioned as being technically illegal, but is considered so beneficial and useful that in practice nobody objects to it. There is a distinction made between enhancing already-existing traits and adding new ones; I'd argue that Peak Human/Alien would certainly be considered okay, but Eternal Youth might run into legal trouble, just on the merits of what the therapy promises. If the Council decides that our gene therapy technology is going to inflame sectarian divides among the Citadel races, however, they could try to have us discreetly taken care of, and before anyone says this is unlikely I'll remind everyone that this is the same Council that decides to ignore the clear and present danger of the Reapers, even after one invaded and took over the Citadel; they are perfectly capable of making stupid decisions when it's politically expedient to do so.

The Asari are going to dislike us because we're messing with their race's master plan of screwing all the other races to extinction, or at least political irrelevance, over hundreds of years. The Salarians are going to dislike us because we're potentially curing the Krogan and starting off that war again. The Krogan are going to dislike us because we're letting the Salarians live as long as we do. The racist factions among humanity are going to dislike us for practically giving away treatments to these evil nasty aliens, etc etc. This is all politics, and Politics is the Mind Killer thanks to millions of years of evolution teaching us exactly the wrong things about political positions.

There was a couple of arguments about releasing Eternal Youth to humanity.....truth is, in ME after the Photean archive Religion pretty much swan dived into a minority due to not coming up with a good explantion for alien life.

It's probably why Ashley was somewhat hesitant to mention that she's Christian in the first game.

So there probably be very little backlash against the whole thing, or at least compared to the amount of people who would be after it.
I really, really wish we could rely on starry-eyed optimism here, but history and current events prove that sort of optimism is usually proven to be naive. Just because religion is not considered fashionable in the Alliance military does not mean there will not be a militant response, in fact this is likely to make what religious objections there will be worse, as the people objecting will feel they have no official recourse.

Let's not forget that most people expected the US to be greeted as liberators in Iraq. Look how well that turned out?

Hell we simply avoid the word immortality, which is reasonable since we can´t know that for 100% without living through it, and market it as an increased lifespan which is something I don´t have noticed any protest occurring.
And it is not like we will make such a treatment mandatory in the whole galaxy, the nutjobs are always free to leave.
This could work, but we need to be very cautions. I suppose it also depends on the nature of the immortality treatment: will it be a one-off, fixing the recipient forever at 25 years old; is it an endless series of rejuvenation treatments, etc.

We should research personality back ups so that if people die to accidents or violence they can get resleeved, it should be helpful with indoctrination as well if some one gets indoctrinated we can just use the back up to help restore them into themselves again.
For examples of how this can go wrong, look at the last few storylines in Schlock Mercenary, where black ops infiltrators pervert this technology to overwrite other people's minds in order to infiltrate secure installations.

I know I'm starting to come off as a wet blanket here, but I think we're rushing ahead with a plan that, likely in the short term and probably in the medium term, is going to turn out very badly for us. Unlike all the stuff with the Arc Reactors, all this genetic enhancement tech is going to seriously piss off a lot of people, and even on the remote chance that it doesn't lead to us being buried under a tide of jihadists or touching off a dozen wars, it's going to be a very long time before things settle down long enough for anyone to even consider letting us proceed to tinkering with AIs, which if I recall was the original objective when we started on this plan.
 
In other words: That Revy has finished researching Peak Human, Advanced Xeno Biology and Eternal Youth must be all announced at the same time and immediately patented and released under a free license to everyone.

Because if we do that we will only have to worry about the Asari (who will rightfully fear we will release even more crazy stuff later on) and Human xenophobes (because "Humanity Fuck Yeah!"). Everyone else will love us or be neutral.

God. We need Flawless Blackboxing for this shit.
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Everything you mentioned in the first paragraph is a source of interracial tensions in ME that have tentatively fallen into sort of a steady state, only because the wars over them in the past have not proven decisive. The release of gene therapies that seem to disproportionately favor the shorter-lived races very well could reignite tensions that lead to war in the past.
Or it would greatly calm them down, as those shorter lived races would be able to look at long-term perspective for the first time in their existence.
And let's not forget that genetic engineering is technically illegal, both in the Alliance and in Citadel space.
Err... Not at all. Uplifiting of non-sapient beings is illegal within the alliance. Genetic engineering is regulated, yes. But it's not forbidden by any means.
Medi-gel specifically is mentioned as being technically illegal, but is considered so beneficial and useful that in practice nobody objects to it.
Because it's a completely new species.
Eternal Youth might run into legal trouble, just on the merits of what the therapy promises.
Age prolongation genetic engineering (outright engineering, not just post-birth treatments) is considered ok. Projected lifespan of an average alliance citizen is higher than one hundred years already (150 I think) and is steadily rising even in canon. No one has problems with that. .
If the Council decides that our gene therapy technology is going to inflame sectarian divides among the Citadel races, however, they could try to have us discreetly taken care of, and before anyone says this is unlikely I'll remind everyone that this is the same Council that decides to ignore the clear and present danger of the Reapers, even after one invaded and took over the Citadel; they are perfectly capable of making stupid decisions when it's politically expedient to do so.
Seriously? Council didn't ignore anything. They were building up forces. They weren't admitting that it was Reapers, and, well, that's kinda an obvious thing to do. Doing so doesn't help anything. They were doing pretty much all they could. After all, everyone expected Reapers to take many years to get into the galaxy, not 2.5 years.
The Asari are going to dislike us because we're messing with their race's master plan of screwing all the other races to extinction, or at least political irrelevance, over hundreds of years.
Could I get citations on that master plan, please? Because I don't remember anything like that in the game or the quest, really. Don't assign maliciousness where there doesn't need to be one. Asari, by their very nature, should be accepting of others, and not suffering from tribe mentalities and "us vs. them" mindsets - it's in their very biology that allows them, in fact encourages them, to fall in love with, copulate and bear progeny with members of other species.
The Salarians are going to dislike us because we're potentially curing the Krogan and starting off that war again.
Except... How does eternal youth relate to that? Please cite the maximum age a krogan can get to. Because Okeer, as far as I remember, fought in Krogan rebellions. I personally favor the hypothesis that krogan are already biologically immortal.
The Krogan are going to dislike us because we're letting the Salarians live as long as we do.
Krogans are 1) irrelevant, 2) angry at everyone already, 3) disorganized, 4) focused on their own thing
The racist factions among humanity are going to dislike us for practically giving away treatments to these evil nasty aliens, etc etc. This is all politics, and Politics is the Mind Killer thanks to millions of years of evolution teaching us exactly the wrong things about political positions.
Except from all indications racist factions are minorities. And why should we be afraid of them anyway? that they will be angry is not the argument not to do this. Besides, we are giving humanity an overwhelming technological ege
I really, really wish we could rely on starry-eyed optimism here, but history and current events prove that sort of optimism is usually proven to be naive
What current events?
Just because religion is not considered fashionable in the Alliance military does not mean there will not be a militant response, in fact this is likely to make what religious objections there will be worse, as the people objecting will feel they have no official recourse.
So? We have good security. And you are way overblowing the power available to such sects.
Let's not forget that most people expected the US to be greeted as liberators in Iraq. Look how well that turned out?
In US maybe. Pretty much no one expected this where I was. And do you really need to bring real politics into this? Especially one that doesn't seem at all relevant?
This could work, but we need to be very cautions. I suppose it also depends on the nature of the immortality treatment: will it be a one-off, fixing the recipient forever at 25 years old; is it an endless series of rejuvenation treatments, etc.
Likely second, where either periodic treatments or sleeping each night in a special pod would work.
I know I'm starting to come off as a wet blanket here, but I think we're rushing ahead with a plan that, likely in the short term and probably in the medium term, is going to turn out very badly for us. Unlike all the stuff with the Arc Reactors, all this genetic enhancement tech is going to seriously piss off a lot of people, and even on the remote chance that it doesn't lead to us being buried under a tide of jihadists or touching off a dozen wars, it's going to be a very long time before things settle down long enough for anyone to even consider letting us proceed to tinkering with AIs, which if I recall was the original objective when we started on this plan.
... Seriously? You think we didn't piss off people with Arc reactors? Seriously? We basically shat all over energy industries everywhere. Think, in modern day terms, of it like this: we made oil, gas, coal, nuclear and solar energies obsolete, completely. This includes all related industries (transport, extraction, etc). If anything, I would have expected fleets of ships over our home the second we announced arc reactors, not when we announce eternal youth. Because unlike fundmaentalist nutjobs, energy megacorps all over citadel space actually have fleets of spaceships (needed for Helium three extractions from gas giants), and those ships are likely armed.

Basically, I completely disagree with your reasoning, think you are fearmongering and blowing possible problems way out of proportion, presenting very remote probabilities as facts of what will happen.

In other words: That Revy has finished researching Peak Human, Advanced Xeno Biology and Eternal Youth must be all announced at the same time and immediately patented and released under a free license to everyone.
Disagree. We release peak human, then we piggyback on peak human infrastructure (and good will) to upgrade it to eternal youth.
 
I am absolutely against going for Eternal Youth if we not have Advanced Xeno Biology first. Revy is going to get assassinated guys! They are going to place undetectable anti-matter detonators that the STG has and we get a Game Over.
 
Disagree. We release peak human, then we piggyback on peak human infrastructure (and good will) to upgrade it to eternal youth.
Every being that we have designed our immortality treatment should have access to it I don't mind us making a profit out of it but allowing anyone to die when you have the cure for it is immoral.
I am absolutely against going for Eternal Youth if we not have Advanced Xeno Biology first. Revy is going to get assassinated guys! They are going to place undetectable anti-matter detonators that the STG has and we get a Game Over.
:facepalm:
 
I am absolutely against going for Eternal Youth if we not have Advanced Xeno Biology first. Revy is going to get assassinated guys! They are going to place undetectable anti-matter detonators that the STG has and we get a Game Over.
DO you really think so bad of STG? They won't kill Revy. Ever. They are going to protect her with their lives. For the chance to reverse engineer her technology.
Every being that we have designed our immortality treatment should have access to it I don't mind us making a profit out of it but allowing anyone to die when you have the cure for it is immoral.
1) Forcing people into treatment is also immoral
2) We require funding to keep the program running. I am all for it being subsidized or completely paid for from taxes and by the governments and by charity foundations. But we need to setup infrastructure first. That's what peak human is useful for as a project. Setting up infrastructure.
 
I'm definitely in favor of throwing Adv xenobiology in when we do Eternal Youth research, but that's more desire for favorable political capital with the salarians, turians, etc than any fear of us getting nuked.
 
1) Forcing people into treatment is also immoral
If people don't want to be immortal that's fine, I said granted access to it not forced to undergo it
2) We require funding to keep the program running. I am all for it being subsidized or completely paid for from taxes and by the governments and by charity foundations. But we need to setup infrastructure first. That's what peak human is useful for as a project. Setting up infrastructure.
We are a company not a government(yet) so stuff like that is up to them but we shouldn't make it so expensive that only the rich can afford it every one should be able to.
This is the internet you can't be sure if someone is serious or not.
 
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Okay. Clarification time because people are probably not understanding me. I am not against releasing OP tech. I am also not against Revy getting profit from these technologies. I am against doing it in such a manner and succession that makes it look like we are trying to make Humanity the top dog hyper power that replaces the Asari in just a decades time. Everyone will freak out then. I wanted to release Peak Human and Xenobiology at the same time to prevent any potential negative reactions along the lines that we are trying to fuck over every alien specie in the galaxy. If we do release Peak Human alongside Xeno Biology..it will be the fucking STG and Turian special forces to boot that are going to be running counter-terror ops against Benezia-orchestrated shenanigans for our corporation.

TL;DR version: A Divide and Conquer strategy applied via OP tech on the Citadel Council.
 
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We are a company not a government(yet) so stuff like that is up to them but we shouldn't make it so expensive that only the rich can afford it every one should be able to.
Lobbying is a thing, and we are already planning to work with the governments on gene mods we are releasing. And basically no sane government ever will decide against subsidizing this.
 
Lobbying is a thing, and we are already planning to work with the governments on gene mods we are releasing. And basically no sane government ever will decide against subsidizing this.
Yeah I agree this will make it so that only children will be the ones who don't contribute to the economy and they will probably become a smaller percentage of the over all population the longer humanity is immortal besides the other benefits our gene mods will bring.
 
Err... Not at all. Uplifiting of non-sapient beings is illegal within the alliance. Genetic engineering is regulated, yes. But it's not forbidden by any means.

Because it's a completely new species.

Age prolongation genetic engineering (outright engineering, not just post-birth treatments) is considered ok. Projected lifespan of an average alliance citizen is higher than one hundred years already (150 I think) and is steadily rising even in canon. No one has problems with that. .
Uplifting of sapient species, creation of new life, and adding new abilities to existing life are all technically illegal, ref http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Gene_therapy . While age prolongation would certainly count as expanding an existing ability, immortality could be argued to be fundamentally different, much like infinity is not really a number.

In US maybe. Pretty much no one expected this where I was. And do you really need to bring real politics into this? Especially one that doesn't seem at all relevant?
It's a reference to a RL event where the decision makers relied on incomplete--one could argue hopelessly incorrect--knowledge of the political situation and naively expected a positive outcome when the actual result was a political quagmire and a war that will likely stretch on for decades.

... Seriously? You think we didn't piss off people with Arc reactors? Seriously? We basically shat all over energy industries everywhere. Think, in modern day terms, of it like this: we made oil, gas, coal, nuclear and solar energies obsolete, completely. This includes all related industries (transport, extraction, etc). If anything, I would have expected fleets of ships over our home the second we announced arc reactors, not when we announce eternal youth. Because unlike fundmaentalist nutjobs, energy megacorps all over citadel space actually have fleets of spaceships (needed for Helium three extractions from gas giants), and those ships are likely armed.
Yes, and we are preparing for espionage campaigns being waged against us, but unlike religious extremist factions a megacorp is not going to send in troops to kill us due to their economic ties to the rest of the civilized world. Megacorps need to be seen as being on the right side of the law in order to continue doing business; religious extremists are already criminals. And with us sponsoring both free energy and eternal youth, the energy companies are very likely to be the ones funding the extremist groups, under the table of course.

Basically, I completely disagree with your reasoning, think you are fearmongering and blowing possible problems way out of proportion, presenting very remote probabilities as facts of what will happen.
And I think we're being naively optimistic and need to prepare for what may well be a very bad result to our manipulations.

On a more meta level, @Esbilon has previously mentioned difficulty in finding things to challenge us. "Your optimistic release of new technology started off Galaxy War III" sounds like a good source of challenge for us, one I think we need to prepare for.
 
Yeah I agree this will make it so that only children will be the ones who don't contribute to the economy and they will probably become a smaller percentage of the over all population the longer humanity is immortal besides the other benefits our gene mods will bring.

Ohhhh....that is a good point...there is actually a thing between how long a living lifeform lives and the number of children they have....so the more people that have 'eternal youth' the less children are going to be born....
 
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