Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)

Justification for the Cabira
I've estimated the Cabira as costing the Alliance 50 billion credits apiece. That's a lot, over six and a half times more expensive then their current Frigate and the same price as a light cruiser. However despite the really high price there are plenty of reasons for them to switch over to it.

First off is it's a lot more versatile. Right now the Alliance uses a wolfpack doctrine for it's ships with a single cruiser leading four to six frigates. Each wolfpack costs between 80b and 95b credits. A single Cabira could very likely replace an entire wolfpack. The overall lower price means the Alliance could up their patrol fleets size by an effective 60% which would help reduce the strain of protecting it's overstretched borders.

There is also the reduction in the operating costs to consider. If we assume a ship on patrol duty consumes 15% of it's cost in repairs/maintenance a year then a flotilla of four frigates and a cruiser would require on average 12b in maintenance/repairs. However it's not just the ship that costs money, it's also the crew. Using the 250k per soldier figure from earlier the 200 crewmen would require 50m in pay/supplies/other. Bringing the total for the flotilla up to 12,050m.

The Cabira by comparison probably has 15 people on it for ~4m and a maintenance cost of 7.5b for a total yearly upkeep of 7,504. Therefore for the same operating budget the Alliance could field 60% more ships which fits with the decrease in relative capital expenditure.

So from a cost effectiveness perspective the Cabira is significantly preferable to the current Crusier/Frigates Flotilla.

Of course there are going to be some limitations of only having one ship verses 5 but the Cabira has enough advantages to outweigh them.

Frankly, I think that you can constrain the growth and power of the players simply by not letting them exceed the market's demand for the products they make. Arc-reactors are powerful, manportable 'better than fusion' energy producers? Okay, the part of the GDP of the SA/Citadel/Galaxy that the players can theoretically get their hands on by producing them is roughly equal to the entire share of the market and no more. This is because unless arc-reactors are by definition better than anything else people are not going to pay more for them.

And this presumes that we manage to corner the market.

The US used 4,184.5 billion kWh of electricity in 2007. At an average cost of .1188 dollers per kWh that's $497,118,600,000 or 3.3% of the 2007 GDP of 14,990,000,000,000.

3.3% of the Alliance's 637 trillion GDP is 21 trillion credits. Of the Citadel's 8,000 trillion GDP that's 264 trillion credits.

Even if we only reach 10% market penetration, which we'll easily exceed, we'd still be looking at tens of trillions of credits. And that's using modern standards. I'd expect that energy is a significantly larger portion of the GDP in the future.
 
@Stroth: Tuchanka atleast can be explained by saying that the krogan, while dangerous, were few in number, had vastly limited abilities to replace their numbers and had little to no space lift capabilities of their own. Isolating and destroying the krogan would've been relatively simple and not time sensitive, so the Reapers could focus on attacking and reducing military and production centres across the galaxy while one destroyer made sure the situation didn't change.
It certainly doesn't warrant something on the level of Earth or Palavan, but one destroyer? They've got more than that patrolling empty systems in the ass end of conquered space.
 
The Cabira by comparison probably has 15 people on it
We should probably raise that a bit, even with lots of mechanization.


A fireteam is 4 marines, and a frigate should carry two (one squad). This isn't directly supported by anything, but when Anderson was on the SSV Hastings (a frigate) he led four marines down to the planet surface - that makes sense, take one fireteam and leave another on the ship.

One squad per frigate means that in a wolf pack of six frigates, you carry two platoons. Add another platoon (maybe two) on the cruiser, and we have a whole company (albeit a small one) dedicated to that part of the fleet.

Obviously there is a lot of wiggle room here, but I think that makes sense given their purpose.


Practically, that means there should be eight marines on a frigate, and I assume you need more than seven people to run the ship itself. A pilot, his backup, the commanding officer, navigator, chief engineer, two additional engineering staff...that is seven right there, and there are plenty more positions to be filled.

Maybe we should say 20-25 including the ground team?
 
Practically, that means there should be eight marines on a frigate, and I assume you need more than seven people to run the ship itself. A pilot, his backup, the commanding officer, navigator, chief engineer, two additional engineering staff...that is seven right there, and there are plenty more positions to be filled.

Maybe we should say 20-25 including the ground team?

Frigates are listed as having a crew of 30 so I just halved it.


Putting more thought into it I'm guessing the crew is the actual crew not counting the marines attached. On the Normandy we have:
Shepard - CO
Pressley - XO and Chief Navigator
Chakwas - CMO
Adams - Chief Engineer
Joker - Chief Helmsmen
2x Bridge Crew
5x CIC Officers
8x Deck Techs
3x Engineers
1x Req Officers.

That's 24 right there. Since I doubt they have only 6 marines It's reasonable to assume I'm correct on crew not including marines.

I'm not sure what role exactly the Navigator has since that seems like the sort of thing that would be completely computer controlled.

So lets work out what roles are actually needed.
  1. 1x CO
  2. 1x XO
  3. 2x Medical Officers
  4. 1x Chief Engineer
  5. 3x Engineers (not something we can really replace until we have mechs)
  6. 2x Pilot
I think that's about it. 9 crew in total, 13 if we go for three shifts rather then two.
 
CO
XO
Pilot
Backup Pilot
Medical Officer
Backup Medic
Chief Engineer
3 x Engineers
Communications/Sensors/E-War
Damage/Fire Control

12 plus 8 marines for a total of 20? Maybe 25 if we add some redundancy?
 
Hmm. Speaking of ships, the BFG was discussed as one possible armament for them at some point, yes? But I have been thinking that as a long range weapon it might not work, if it is as slow as it is in the game. Therefore to circumvent this problem, how about making a torpedo that mimics its function? And on a larger scale too, because the integrity of both the weapon and the shooter are no longer a concern. I can already see it: "Want your enemy gone for good? Then use Paragon Industries new "Event Horizon" Torpedo, guaranteed to erase you target from this plane of existence!"

"Event Horizon"/Vortex/whatever Torpedo/Missile would use:
Single-use "black hole" generator
Repulsor thruster/evasion array
Power cell/Mk I Arc Reactor
 
Isn't that exactly what a disruptor torpedo is?

Edit - Besides, I thought the BFG was just the Blackstorm Projector from in-game, we have no idea if it scales up.
 
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Unless the frigates will be completely short ranged with no mid/long term ranged patrol capacity its crew should have two complete crews much like submarines do. A day shift and night shift for when the day shift crew needs to sleep and have down time.
 
Edit - Besides, I thought the BFG was just the Blackstorm Projector from in-game, we have no idea if it scales up.

We do actually, I present the following Quote Tree as proof:

[ ] The black fucking gun (400): Conrad knows pretty much how the "Black Hole Gun, but not really" that they entered into the competition works. It does, however, have more than a few safety issues, and you really don't want a gun that will make General Alexander call you and ask what the hell happened to his entire right flank. The core idea is good, but the problem is that Conrad, smart though he is, is very bad at adapting his designs to the constraints posed by reality. (Build the M-490 Blackstorm, though you get to pick a new name for it if you'd like.)
So would we be able to make a super-sized version of this for ships because throwing fake blackholes at each other would be pretty damn cool.
You can scale the black hole gun to work on tanks or space ships, but counterintuitive as it may seem; small black holes can be more devastating than big once since they involve larger tidal forces (the so-called spagetthification process).
Yeah but from what I understand that's really only a problem after a certain point and I doubt we'll be reaching fake black holes of sufficient (fake) mass for that to be a problem.
True enough, my point was rather that a kind of cluster-gun might be more effective at tearing things apart, and the resulting not-quite-black-holes would also disappear faster. In the same way as modern nuclear missiles deliver multiple small warheads rather than one big one.

There is a reason I threw the Black Fucking Gun on at the end of my tech list. Ships that shoot (fake) black holes would be cool as hell. Probably put serious hurt on Reaper and the like as well.
 
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The US used 4,184.5 billion kWh of electricity in 2007. At an average cost of .1188 dollers per kWh that's $497,118,600,000 or 3.3% of the 2007 GDP of 14,990,000,000,000.

And how much of that was profit? The return on the investment is a critical matter when it comes to things like this. We do need to pay for things like personnel, raw materials for products and the construction, maintenance and eventual replacement of the facility. Trillions of credits is nice, but it's hardly a guarantee that we'll have that much money to spend after everything else.

It certainly doesn't warrant something on the level of Earth or Palavan, but one destroyer? They've got more than that patrolling empty systems in the ass end of conquered space.

... I got nothing beyond 'it's a game,' but that really shouldn't have happened.
 
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We do actually, I present the following Quote Tree as proof:



There is a reason I threw the Black Fucking Gun on at the end of my tech list. Ships that shoot (fake) black holes would be cool as hell. Probably put serious hurt on Reaper and the like as well.
Sweet. Do we have any idea how fast the projectile is?

Because I doubt they will be viable at long range, but stick them on fighters and you have effectively replaced disruptor torpedoes, with the benefit of unlimited ammuniton. Could use large ones defensively as well.
 
Isn't that exactly what a disruptor torpedo is?
The codex entry seems to imply more "mass increase and Warp -field" than a biotic singularity that is amped up.
Edit - Besides, I thought the BFG was just the Blackstorm Projector from in-game, we have no idea if it scales up.
True, but if anyone can do it, its Revy. Plus she also has access to Conrad, whose idea it was originally in this canon.
We do actually, I present the following Quote Tree as proof:



There is a reason I threw the Black Fucking Gun on at the end of my tech list. Ships that shoot (fake) black holes would be cool as hell. Probably put serious hurt on Reaper and the like as well.
Hmm. How about we rip off Jericho, but instead of explosions make it create black holes? That explode.
 
I don't think a single frigate, no matter how powerful it is, even with Marvel tech is going to change their wolfpack doctrine, the main reason they use it in the first place is for scouting enemy positions because they don't have FTL sensors so they purposefully get frigates to jump to FTL, drop out of FTL at certain co-ordinates, the frigate uses passive sensors to pick up anything and then beams it back to the cruiser via FTL comms.

They would still need four/five frigates to be able to pull that off quickly enough to catch anything.
 
I don't think a single frigate, no matter how powerful it is, even with Marvel tech is going to change their wolfpack doctrine, the main reason they use it in the first place is for scouting enemy positions because they don't have FTL sensors so they purposefully get frigates to jump to FTL, drop out of FTL at certain co-ordinates, the frigate uses passive sensors to pick up anything and then beams it back to the cruiser via FTL comms.

They would still need four/five frigates to be able to pull that off quickly enough to catch anything.
That is for operating as part of a larger fleet - we are talking about the standard Alliance patrols which make up the majority of the Navy's peacetime operations. The wolfpack isn't scouting around the main force in that case, they are hunting.

The Gravitation Wave Dectectors make it so a single frigate can do that job effectively anyways.
 
That is for operating as part of a larger fleet - we are talking about the standard Alliance patrols which make up the majority of the Navy's peacetime operations. The wolfpack isn't scouting around the main force in that case, they are hunting.

The Gravitation Wave Dectectors make it so a single frigate can do that job effectively anyways.
And maybe with something like QEC drones, we could extend that range/resolution even further. And have them piloted by organics/AIs from the frigate, because hey, QEC. Hell, throw in the TIRS, and you could maybe notice the drones, but good luck finding the frigate itself.

And just realized that QEC (if it can be made affordable at that scale) would mean that the fighters don't suddenly need to have on-board pilots. Less casualties in combat, better specs because you don't need to take squishy meatbags into your consideration, etc.
 
And how much of that was profit? The return on the investment is a critical matter when it comes to things like this. We do need to pay for things like personnel, raw materials for products and the construction, maintenance and eventual replacement of the facility. Trillions of credits is nice, but it's hardly a guarantee that we'll have that much money to spend after everything else.

We make an insane profit margin on everything. 5GW Arc Reactors cost 50k and we sell them to the Alliance for 125k and the Citadel for (up to) 250k.

If those remained constant we would get between 12.6 trillion and 158.4 trillion credits in profit.

But that's somewhat unlikely. So instead lets say we reach 50% market penetration at a price of 60k per Arc Reactor.

50% market penetration means an inflow of 132 trillion from the Citadel. With 1/6 of that been profit gives a profit of 22 trillion credits per year.

At the price of 60k per Arc Reactor 132 Trillion would buy 2.2 billion Arc Reactors which would require 440 million units of production.

440 million units of production is 14,667 Factory IIIs. Each of which have an operation cost of 200m per year for a total of 2,933,400 million.

Subtracted from our earlier profit leaves a total profit of 19 trillion credits.

I don't think a single frigate, no matter how powerful it is, even with Marvel tech is going to change their wolfpack doctrine, the main reason they use it in the first place is for scouting enemy positions because they don't have FTL sensors so they purposefully get frigates to jump to FTL, drop out of FTL at certain co-ordinates, the frigate uses passive sensors to pick up anything and then beams it back to the cruiser via FTL comms.

They would still need four/five frigates to be able to pull that off quickly enough to catch anything.

IIRC they don't actually have FTL ship-to-ship comms. That's only for Relay Buoy to relay buoy. So that doesn't relay work.
 
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I don't think a single frigate, no matter how powerful it is, even with Marvel tech is going to change their wolfpack doctrine, the main reason they use it in the first place is for scouting enemy positions because they don't have FTL sensors so they purposefully get frigates to jump to FTL, drop out of FTL at certain co-ordinates, the frigate uses passive sensors to pick up anything and then beams it back to the cruiser via FTL comms.

They would still need four/five frigates to be able to pull that off quickly enough to catch anything.
No, frigates with QE, lasers and TIR are, in fact, complete doctrine changers.

Because
1) QE,especially cheap QE enable effective FTL sensor nets, at least in developed systems. In fact, they enable FTL-combat, where the ship fires without exiting FTL and aimning via QE sensor drones in the area.

2) TIR is stealth is space. It's stealth that works in FTL. Unless the enemy has gravitic sensors, it's such an overwhelming advantage, its not even funny.

Defensive doctrine, as well as offensive ones, will be changed drastically by introduction of invisible untouchable ships that can kill without exiting FTL, as well as early warning systems working using instantaneous untraceable unnoticeable communication method.
 
We make an insane profit margin on everything. 5GW Arc Reactors cost 50k and we sell them to the Alliance for 125k and the Citadel for (up to) 250k.

If those remained constant we would get between 12.6 trillion and 158.4 trillion credits in profit.

But that's somewhat unlikely. So instead lets say we reach 50% market penetration at a price of 60k per Arc Reactor.

50% market penetration means an inflow of 132 trillion from the Citadel. With 1/6 of that been profit gives a profit of 22 trillion credits per year.

At the price of 60k per Arc Reactor 132 Trillion would buy 2.2 billion Arc Reactors which would require 440 million units of production.

440 million units of production is 14,667 Factory IIIs. Each of which have an operation cost of 200m per year for a total of 2,933,400 million.

Subtracted from our earlier profit leaves a total profit of 19 trillion credits.

I Can't find any 2007 specific data but American electrify companies seem to run between 7% and 15% profit margins.

Arc Reactors selling with a 7% profit margin go for 53,500cr.

At 53,500cr apiece there must be 2,467,289,719 Arc Reactors sold to generate 132 trillion. That requires 740,186,916 production which is produced by 6,168.2243 (I got my numbers wrong earlier) Factory IIIs.

That many Factory IIIs cost 1,233,644,860,000cr per year.

3,500 * 2,467,289,719 = 8,635,514,016,500

8,635,514,016,500 - 1,233,644,860,000 = 7,401,869,156,500

Therefore a yearly profit of 7.4 trillion credits is easily justifiable from Arc Reactors alone.

It won't actually be anywhere near this for a variety of reasons but my key point of making trillions per year is very easy without limitations.
 
1) QE,especially cheap QE enable effective FTL sensor nets, at least in developed systems. In fact, they enable FTL-combat, where the ship fires without exiting FTL and aimning via QE sensor drones in the area.
In fact, they enable FTL-combat, where the ship fires without exiting FTL and aimning via QE sensor drones in the area.
they enable FTL-combat
No. Just no. Screw consistency, we're not having FTL combat ever. The temporal paradoxes make my mind grow numb.
 
No. Just no. Screw consistency, we're not having FTL combat ever. The temporal paradoxes make my mind grow numb.
Couldn't you just have FTL combat without delving too deep what is happening? Just use some assumptions about relative strength and strategic/tactical competence, then give us a confusing jumple about people being in a confused jumble while trying to comprehend what they are doing, while the AIs and Revy are wondering why people have so much difficulty with such simple physics.

Or ask Yog to co-GM those sections.
 
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No. Just no. Screw consistency, we're not having FTL combat ever. The temporal paradoxes make my mind grow numb.
...Ok? So, what happens if the ship fires its kinetic guns while in FTL? By "FTL-combat" I meant something like this:

Ship is somewhere far away (beyond the light-cone of the targets). Ship gets targeting info using drones in the area of the target (drones are equipped with QE communicators). Ship enters FTL and moves in the direction of the targets. As it moves by them (moving faster than its light trail and, thus, completely invisible to any non-FTL sensor), it fires its guns (or drops bombs, or fires lasers if the boundary refraction problem can be overcome) without dropping out of FTL. No temporal paradoxes (apparently) induced because of eezo-born space magic.

Essentially, a super-sonic kind of audio stealth - moving too fast to be seen.

I didn't actually mean two ships fighting each other while each of them is in FTL.

After all, eezo FTL doesn't even touch upon relativistic effects, much less temporal paradoxes.
Or ask Yog to co-GM those sections.
I don't think I know enough about general relativity to do this reliably.
 
OK, one-sided FTL-combat is more reasonable. Still fucked up, but no more than the rest of the setting.
Indeed. I was thinking about defence networks, basically.

Seed space with small probes, each equipped with QE comm and variety of scanning equipment, so they havve a very good information about where everything within the monitored area is. Hide some drones (under TIR maybe, or just unpowered) somewhere. When needed, use them to decimate an enemy with overwhelming FTL strikes that the invader (not having established comm and sensor network in the area) won't be able to defend against; at all. And then add in TIR that hides the light trail of the ship (so even after it passes by, normal sensors wont be able to pick it up)

Basically, QE, at least cheap one, opens the whole new can of worms in terms of warfare and first strike capabilities.
 
Indeed. I was thinking about defence networks, basically.

Seed space with small probes, each equipped with QE comm and variety of scanning equipment, so they havve a very good information about where everything within the monitored area is. Hide some drones (under TIR maybe, or just unpowered) somewhere. When needed, use them to decimate an enemy with overwhelming FTL strikes that the invader (not having established comm and sensor network in the area) won't be able to defend against; at all. And then add in TIR that hides the light trail of the ship (so even after it passes by, normal sensors wont be able to pick it up)

Basically, QE, at least cheap one, opens the whole new can of worms in terms of warfare and first strike capabilities.
And because of the relay network, you don't even need to seed a whole lot of space with these. Otherwise the sheer size of the galaxy would probably make it untenable. I pity the Reapers. Better start filling out the other 98% of the galaxy with some serious meanies...
 
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