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Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)

Mind you, in ME2 stuff does become a whole lot cheaper, as in 'hardsuit that is worth 250 K+ credits becomes 15K credits' thanks to finding vast deposits of eezo and the Council convincing mega corporations to compete with each other in terms of both quality and price due 'to threat of Geth assault and needing better military equipment' apparently.

Or something like that....Bioware's explanation for why guns which would set you back 10K+ - 250K now only cost 5K or so was a bit iffy to me to say the least.

I think they realised 'hang on, these guys have nano-fabbers and VIs, which remove most -if not all - the hard work in producing these things, so shouldn't they be cheaper?' and tried to come up with an idea to get them cheaper.
 
I'd be fine with cutting the amount of production each level of factory gives us.
 
Van Ropen said:
I don't think it's the money, it's the production potential which is problematic. Even if we end up filthy megacorp rich, there should be some limits to how much stuff we can produce. If we can churn out an entire fleet in a year, that's a problem.
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Limit on available resources could help there. I mean theres inevitably some point where throwing more money on the problem won't help. If we have already bought everything available, it won't matter how much more money we offer.

Ofcourse limited raw materials only work until Revy invents automated asteroid mining or something.
 
Van Ropen said:
Your idea breaks SOD too - consider Elysium. All that infrastructure is already there, why would we have to rebuild it?


Something that affects profits derived from the production would probably make more sense.
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Did I say we would have to pay for previous installations? No.

This is for all future factory purchases. AKA on planets not developed fully. Even this planet we are on isn't fully developed anyways so your point doesn't hold. Your just not understanding what the money would go into.

Datakim said:
Limit on available resources could help there. I mean theres inevitably some point where throwing more money on the problem won't help. If we have already bought everything available, it won't matter how much more money we offer.

Ofcourse limited raw materials only work until Revy invents automated asteroid mining or something.
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Problem is if you have access to even one asteroid belt you have more resources then the council apparently has.
 
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Van Ropen said:
I don't think it's the money, it's the production potential which is problematic. Even if we end up filthy megacorp rich, there should be some limits to how much stuff we can produce. If we can churn out an entire fleet in a year, that's a problem.
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Considering the long building times for ships and shipyards it is is not as much of problem.

"Laboratory Ships" take 2 years and T3 shipyards to build.


And T3 shipyards need reliable ans skilled crew and good orbital infrastructure.

If we build too much at once we will spread thin , like SA.

Also they are excellent targets for sabotage,and plants/spies become harder and harder to filter.
 
Daniel14541 said:
Did I say we would have to pay for previous installations? No.

This is for all future factory purchases. AKA on planets not developed fully. Even this planet we are on isn't fully developed anyways so your point doesn't hold. Your just not understanding what the money would go into.
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In that case, what prevents us from slamming down a couple dozen Factory IIIs each on Elysium, Bekenstein, ect where those facilities would never be needed?

I think it's been made pretty clear that increasing the price of the factories isn't a good solution.
 
Wait a moment. Space is kinda big.. There's a lot of it you know, ME's race's are at a sad 2% of the galaxy even known about. Let alone used or explored.

And there's like a million reapers to kill off.

Why is ever one trying to slap limits on things? If it really is needed why not do a bit of simcity and make Industry a ratio with commercial and residential? Unless Revy is going to turn the planet into a forge world (and we could use one of thoes...) She would need balanced growth of the city and planet around her factory.

Could of course wait for the local government and Natural population movements. But f that, time to start investing in super malls and smart homes.
 
Pai said:
Wait a moment. Space is kinda big.. There's a lot of it you know, ME's race's are at a sad 2% of the galaxy even known about. Let alone used or explored.

And there's like a million reapers to kill off.

Why is ever one trying to slap limits on things? If it really is needed why not do a bit of simcity and make Industry a ratio with commercial and residential? Unless Revy is going to turn the planet into a forge world (and we could use one of thoes...) She would need balanced growth of the city and planet around her factory.

Could of course wait for the local government and Natural population movements. But f that, time to start investing in super malls and smart homes.
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Because we're reaching the limits of what we can actually do within the scope of the limits of the setting. We're literally at the point where we're contemplating supplying whole militaries dreadnoughts AT COST, and there's no hard cap to our production capability. This insanity needs to be curtailed.
 
Amberion said:
Because we're reaching the limits of what we can actually do within the scope of the limits of the setting. We're literally at the point where we're contemplating supplying whole militaries dreadnoughts AT COST, and there's no hard cap to our production capability. This insanity needs to be curtailed.
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Yeah, that's what heppens when you give someone Tony Stark's intelligence without his hording instincts.

Okay, I'd suggest two things: Firstly, up the threat of the Reapers. They've been doing this for how many epochs and they can get taken down by a tricked out frigate? No.

Secondly, Crank up the civilian market so out production isn't all going to the military. The arc reactor is a huge boon to colonization, use that. New colonies are starting every week using Paragon industries equipment, that'll limit our effect on the military. Hell, with the massive technological leaps I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of years the Council is confident enough to start opening new relays again.
 
Stroth said:
Okay, I'd suggest two things: Firstly, up the threat of the Reapers. They've been doing this for how many epochs and they can get taken down by a tricked out frigate? No.
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Actually a few of the main reasons why the Reapers got messed up by the Normandy was that she never actually punched above her weight class, she is a frigate and had only took down Destroyer Reapers which are basically the Reaper version of a frigate (only with more tentacles), was equipped with a reverse-engineered Reaper main gun, had Joker at the helm, had EDI with a Reaper IFF code installed and one time needed the entire Quarian combat fleet to take one down.

Also like it has been mentioned before, the cycle should have started way before ME1 came about anyway, Nasara had to spend decades/centuries looking for proxies to work behind to figure out why the Reapers didn't pile through the Relay.

The Reapers intentionally leave titbits behind in order to influence the tech trees of the civilisations in each and every cycle and expect everyone to follow along. It was just that the cycle with the humans was longer than expected, giving rise to stuff like the Javelin missile and QEC, one of the ways the Reapers win is by intentionally cutting off the Comm buoys, no FTL comms mean that everyone they face would either be a disorganised mess or too small to pose any serious threat.

They pretty much took down the Photeans Galatic Empire doing it this way, all because every space faring civilisation that reaches a certain point in it's expansion would use the Citadel as the focus of their government, which mean they would put stuff like military data and census forms on the Citadels mainframe, meaning that the Reapers knew where the Photean navies were, where they weren't and exactly where to hit.

They built the building blocks to virtually everything that most space faring races in ME have and know all the codes and hacks.

The Reapers were going to be boosted anyway because of Marvel Crazy SCIENCE anyway so it's a moot point.

Basically....the canon!Reapers are in a way the 'Anti-Spiral race' of the ME verse, they are old, powerful, somewhat smart...but most of all, stagnent.
Some fans actually said that 'going for a TTGL ending even if the player knew it was hopeless would have made a better ending'.
 
Tabron89 said:
was equipped with a reverse-engineered Reaper main gun, had Joker at the helm, had EDI with a Reaper IFF code installed
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Yes, a tricked out frigate, that's what I said. My point is that's ridiculous.
Tabron89 said:
Basically....the canon!Reapers are in a way the 'Anti-Spiral race' of the ME verse, they are old, powerful, somewhat smart...but most of all, stagnent.
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They're not stagnant. If they were they wouldn't have managed to start the final cycle at all. They actually adapt to unexpected changes very well, and they plan for worst case scenarios. That's why Nazara was left behind in the first place, as a just in case measure if something unpredictable pops up. They're not stagnant at all.
 
Personally I think simply limiting us to expanding to one planet per year, while fairly arbitrary, works pretty well. We're already limited to one planet per 9 months for Labs so extending that to Factories and bumping it to a year makes just as much sense.

With that limit in place and assuming we only build three factories per planet (other then Mindoir):

2173 - 1x Factory II 2x Factory III - 63,000 production - 16,065m credits/quarter
2174 - 12x Factory III - 360,000 production - 91,800m credits/quarter
2175 - 15x Factory III - 450,000 production - 114,750m credits/quarter
2176 - 18x Factory III - 540,000 production - 137,700m credits/quarter
2177 - 21x Factory III - 630,000 production - 160,650m credits/quarter
2178 - 24x Factory III - 720,000 production - 183,600m credits/quarter
2179 - 27x Factory III - 810,000 production - 206,550m credits/quarter
2180 - 30x Factory III - 900,000 production - 229,500m credits/quarter
2181 - 33x Factory III - 990,000 production - 252,450m credits/quarter
2182 - 36x Factory III - 1,080,000 production - 275,400m credits/quarter
2183 - 39x Factory III - 1,170,000 production - 298,350m credits/quarter

So by the time of ME1 Paragon Industries would be making 1.1 trillion credits per year and thus be able to afford a single regular (ours are likely more expense) dreadnaught per year.

Even with 9 factories per planet rather then three PI would still be limited to 3 trillion a year.

As for why we would be limited to one planet per year, well just say that the combination of Alliance and local planetary laws means that establishing a major facility and bringing what is by all accounts a personal army* is a major undertaking that requires the full force of PI's legal and administrative resources.

*3 Legionary equipped Marines took down ~80 Asari Commandos. 300 therefore would be able to take down at least 8,000 Asari Commands, likely more thanks to synergy and such, which puts them at around the same strength as an entire division.
 
Sweet. Nine labs should be fine, given we are technically putting up six lab facilities, plus a barracks, hangar, administrative center, and defensive emplacements.

Basically a small city we plop down onto whatever colony we expand to.
 
Honestly, I see no point in staying in the Alliance in a few years. I'd rather get AI creation done so we can replace a lot of our people with digital crewmembers, up sticks to the Terminus, and create the Shepard Empire. Do it before we start releasing our technology across Citadel space and our tech will be so superior to the opposition their ships will be worthless.
 
Having enough ships to conquer the Terminus, regardless of their comparative tech level, will require some expansion in the Alliance.

That said, wasn't the point always to have defensible facilities spread across Alliance colonies until we had enough dosh to move to our own corporate planet, which by definition is Terminus?
 
Stroth said:
Okay, I'd suggest two things: Firstly, up the threat of the Reapers. They've been doing this for how many epochs and they can get taken down by a tricked out frigate? No.
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Gah, I hate this school of thought saying "if the hero became stronger, than the villain must have always been stronger". It's an excuse to tell exactly the same story despite all the changes, in my opinion. Have Reapers behave differently? Yes. Have them commit more forces, employ different strategy, use different tactics and prioritize different targets? Sure. Make them different? Personally, I don't like that idea.
Van Ropen said:
Having enough ships to conquer the Terminus, regardless of their comparative tech level, will require some expansion in the Alliance.
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There's also an issue of how to hold such an amount of territory. And what to do with it.
 
UberJJK said:
Actually I worked out, although don't believe I posted, a reasonable justification for the Batarians attacking within the next couple years.

We embarrassed them at Mindoir, massive group of pirates been defeated by a little girl and her mom, and will almost certain do so again if they attack Elysium, which they probably will since it will give them a chance to strike back at Revy.

Two massive failures against humanity and the Alliance's massive up-teching from our Legionaries, Arc Reactors (which the Batarians are likely a year or two away from even getting their hand on), Tigers, and (depending upon timing) Cabira will make them very angry and afraid.

This will cause the same sort of push to research the Leviathan of Dis that Shepard stopping the attack on Terra Nova did. Leading to an Indoctrinated Hegemony. Given that the Reapers aren't invading yet they'll likely try and take down the Alliance, possibly with subtle Reaper aid, and especially Paragon Industries.

So yeah, the Alliance-Hegemony war the Citadel was after? Will almost certainly be happening within before the decade is out.
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I know I am bit late to the party but I find a Batarian enemy a bit boring and overdone. In every quest/story its always the Batarians who get destroyed first and have to play the villain.

I personally think the Terminus systems would allow for a more interesting enemy, especially if we take the ME1 (story Terminus) (where it is a legitimate galactic superpower and not just a band of mercenaries under the command of Aria.)
Unlike the Batarians the Terminus systems are stated to have enough firepower to make even the Citadel unease and you could easily include some nasty aliens (or alien tech) into the mix.
 
Yog said:
Gah, I hate this school of thought saying "if the hero became stronger, than the villain must have always been stronger". It's an excuse to tell exactly the same story despite all the changes, in my opinion. Have Reapers behave differently? Yes. Have them commit more forces, employ different strategy, use different tactics and prioritize different targets? Sure. Make them different? Personally, I don't like that idea.
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I think I phrased that poorly. I agree that the Reapers don't need to be powered up, I think they should be skipping the plot induced stupidity that ME3 forced on them. There's only one Reaper, and a destroyer class at that, on Tuchanka? Fucking why? That's the homeworld for one of the most dangerous races in this cycle. The geth have effectively no backup? Why? They're tying up the biggest fleet in the galaxy, give them some damn support. They weren't that stupid about other things, why are they being stupid here? Get rid of the idiot ball and they're suddenly a threat even with a dozen super-dreadnaughts backing us up.
 
Frankly, I think that you can constrain the growth and power of the players simply by not letting them exceed the market's demand for the products they make. Arc-reactors are powerful, manportable 'better than fusion' energy producers? Okay, the part of the GDP of the SA/Citadel/Galaxy that the players can theoretically get their hands on by producing them is roughly equal to the entire share of the market and no more. This is because unless arc-reactors are by definition better than anything else people are not going to pay more for them.

And this presumes that we manage to corner the market.


The same would be true of any other market we enter, so we'd still need to deal with the fact that even if we can supply better frigates at equal cost to a standard frigate at effectively arbitrary production rates no polity is going to simply say 'sure, give 'ehm to me' because they can't afford them. Ships are expensive, people budget for their replacement based on their expected service life. All this would mean is that we'd get a fairly steady demand for the ships we build as the SA and possibly any other polity phases out their old ships over time as they are lost, damaged beyond repair or retired and replaces them with the best ships currently available.


@Stroth: Tuchanka atleast can be explained by saying that the krogan, while dangerous, were few in number, had vastly limited abilities to replace their numbers and had little to no space lift capabilities of their own. Isolating and destroying the krogan would've been relatively simple and not time sensitive, so the Reapers could focus on attacking and reducing military and production centres across the galaxy while one destroyer made sure the situation didn't change.
 
Yog said:
Gah, I hate this school of thought saying "if the hero became stronger, than the villain must have always been stronger". It's an excuse to tell exactly the same story despite all the changes, in my opinion. Have Reapers behave differently? Yes. Have them commit more forces, employ different strategy, use different tactics and prioritize different targets? Sure. Make them different? Personally, I don't like that idea.
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Pretty sure was established from the beginning though, based on what crossover we picked. By going with Iron Man, we beefed up Cerberus and the Reapers tech capabilities.
 
Right, I used to help Auks run the back-end of things here. Esbilon, if you'd like, I'd be happy to start an involved discussion of economics/industry via PM to sort out a sane way to limit this.
 
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