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Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)

Daniel14541 said:
First double the costs of all factories. This is to represent investment in infrastructure to support the factories. For example housing and entertainment for any in house people paid to stay and work at the factories.
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Arent the factories mostly automated. Atleast compared to current time (and lets face it, automation is already major in 2014). Compared to the profit each factory puts out, the minor human infastructure and such would probably be pretty insignificant in cost.

I will say that the idea of Batarians being indoctrinated by the Leviathan of Dis would make a lot of sense. All the new tech Revy is inventing HAS to be a major concern for the Batarians as a whole. I mean I would think they would be concerned about a potential offensive by SA possessing far superiour technology. Unlike the Asari, the Batarians don't have a prothean beacon, but they do have that corpse of a reaper, and rapid tech advancement of humanity could well convince the Hegemony to speed up the timetable there.

Furthermore, Sovereign stated in ME1 that one of the major reasons why the Reapers leave the mass relays and the Citadel behind is to try and control the direction of technological development. An absurd prodigy like Revy starting to invent incredibly advanced stuff must be worrisome to Sovereign. Especially given that we know the Reapers are already late due to the protheans modifying the Keepers. Which basically means that the galaxy is ALREADY too far advanced as far as Sovereign is concerned. And that was before Revy.

Would make perfect sense for Sovereign to manipulate a few Batarians into getting the Leviathan to try and disrupt the development of SA. Heck, would even make sense of the collectors gave the Batarians a few minor tech advantages to try and keep SA down while Sovereign plots to summon the rest of the reapers.

Basically, Revy is a clear and present danger to the Reapers, and there IS an active Reaper in the galaxy with the ability to mind-control people. Once Revy starts pushing out factory after factory producing more and more super-tech, Sovereign should really do something about it. I can understand Sovereign not wanting to reveal itself openly and personally attack Revy, but I would expect it to be smart enough to basically start doing lots of things in the background to try and make things difficult. And with indoctrination and a puppet spectre, Sovereign should be able to do a lot of things to slow Revy down.

I mean would it really be reasonable for us to believe that Sovereign will just sit there and watch, as the galaxy gets more and more advanced tech and the edge the Reapers have in power grows smaller and smaller?

Ultimately, Sovereign and the reapers are the REAL enemy for Revy and everyone else. Asari, STG, Cerberus, Citadel, Heretic Geth and whatever are just the minor bosses to be faced on the way to the real end boss.
 
Esbilon said:
Let's take a look at the implications of the current system, and round things off so 1 Fac 3 running for 1 quarter can pay for 8 new Fac 3's. And let's say that 1 of your current Fac 3's does nothing but build Fac 3's that build new Fac 3's and so on.

Q1: Finished: 1 // T-1: 0 // T-2: 0 // T-3: 8
Q2: Finished: 1 // T-1: 0 // T-2: 8 // T-3: 8
Q3: Finished: 1 // T-1: 8 // T-2: 8 // T-3: 8
Q4: Finished: 9 // T-1: 8 // T-2: 8 // T-3: 72
Q5: Finished: 17 // T-1: 8 // T-2: 72 // T-3: 136
Q6: Finished: 25 // T-1: 72 // T-2: 136 // T-3: 200
Q7: Finished: 97 // T-1: 136 // T-2: 200 // T-3: 776
Q8: Finished: 169 // T-1: 200 // T-2: 776 //T-3: 1352

I think the pattern is relatively clear to see from here...
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What there will likely be a limit on is how much Factory Unit's Lindsey can find buyers for as it is limited to much more local conditions on the planet it's situated on since shipping between worlds is bound to be pricey due to limited number of hulls and anti-piracy insurance.

For example a small colony like Mindor there's a limit to the production needed. For example 30 PU builds a cutting edge military fighting vehicle.

1080000 PU is how many the Mindoir factories will generate per year which is probably comparable to if not significantly higher than its population. There is only so much they need or can afford and similar items can would be made on other worlds without shipping costs.

On top of that retooling factories takes time and money. Something that Volus Factories are noted in the Crucible War Assets entry to be notably good at to the tune of 45 Military strength in game from using Volus built fabrication units so where our factories fit in that scale.

Volus companies are skilled at mass-producing whatever manufactured goods are currently in demand. Factories use modular equipment to switch their production lines from arms, to housing, to the next big galactic-buying trend.
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horus said:
how does yield scale with barrel length?
becuse if we can't have a ship with a 800m gun we can have 32 300m guns instead
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Assuming force is constant then:

x = 0.5at^2
t^2 =2x/a
t = sqrt(2x/a)

v = at
v = a*sqrt(2x/a)
v = sqrt(a^2)*sqrt(2x/a)
v = sqrt(2xa^2/a)
v = sqrt(2xa)

So velocity scales with the square root of the distance therefore:

Ke = 0.5*mv^2
Ke = 0.5*m*sqrt(2xa)
Ke = 0.5*m*2xa
Ke = xam

Kinetic Energy scales with distance. So doubling the length doubles the kinetic energy. At least according to my 7am math.
 
Esbilon said:
I said so.

There's nothing stopping you from building Turian, Asari and Salarian super-dreads, or overpowered technically-not-dreads.

And if you're serious about expanding your production facilities, and nothing is done to moderate your income, by the time you can build superdreads, you'll likely be able to build hundreds in your first run.
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*shrug* So?
Don't really see how this is much different from the huge numbers of ultra-tech fighters, frigates and cruisers we could pump out just as easily in the meantime.
Particularly since we don't even need the production facilities; all we'd need to do is license the designs to various shipyards and let them produce the vessels.
 
Esbilon said:
I said so.

There's nothing stopping you from building Turian, Asari and Salarian super-dreads, or overpowered technically-not-dreads.

And if you're serious about expanding your production facilities, and nothing is done to moderate your income, by the time you can build superdreads, you'll likely be able to build hundreds in your first run.
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Hey....that is a good idea....maybe have a contract with the Council that for every five Turian dreadnaughts we build, we are allowed to build three for the Asari and Salarians and one for SA, the Volus, Elcor and so on?

I mean, technically it's within the Treaty, all that has changed is the origin point of their hardware and gives us incentive not to sabotage the Dreadnaughts, if a few Turian Dreadnaughts mysteriously blow up and so happens to leave Humanity a few more Dreadnaughts floating around than permitted....well, they know who to ask, right? Namely at the end of a barrel from a couple of dreadnaughts.

We could do 'blank' Dreadnaughts for them - in other words the ship itself is working fine, only that there is no OS on board which means that the ship is dead in the water until someone from their respective military looks it over and installs their own races OS.

It becomes a question of what will happen when we roll the first super-dread off the line....maybe they could set up a similar treaty?

....Mind you....you could always have Production limited to the system that the Shipyards are built in, so a shipyard in Mindor's system cannot help build a ship that is being built at...let's say Horizon?

It would make some sense, a shipyard cannot build a ship that it isn't connected to after all.
 
Datakim said:
Arent the factories mostly automated. Atleast compared to current time (and lets face it, automation is already major in 2014). Compared to the profit each factory puts out, the minor human infastructure and such would probably be pretty insignificant in cost.
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Really? Your that lazy you can't even read one sentence further in? -_-
 
Daniel14541 said:
Really? Your that lazy you can't even read one sentence further in? -_-
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Sigh, I was including all of that with the fact that the factory profit would still make all that insignificant given the absurd demand caused by Revys inventions being so advanced. The usage/maintenance costs are simply not sufficiently high given the demand and the prices people will be willing to pay.

PS. The starports and defensive towers and other stuff are mostly automated too (see EDI taking control and firing at the collector ship for instance). Really, much of ME realistically is, thanks to VIs. It is as Van Ropen says, a minor speedbump
 
Datakim said:
Sigh, I was including all of that with the fact that the factory profit would still make all that insignificant given the absurd demand caused by Revys inventions being so advanced. The usage/maintenance costs are simply not sufficiently high given the demand and the prices people will be willing to pay.

PS. The starports and defensive towers and other stuff are mostly automated too (see EDI taking control and firing at the collector ship for instance). Really, much of ME realistically is, thanks to VIs.
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Don't put in a part if its not relevant. It needlessly weakens any argument you make.

Van Ropen said:
Easily. The cost of the factories isn't the problem, the sheer production they make available and the ease with which that is converted into money is.
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It still greatly lessens the long term number of factories however.
 
No, it fucking doesn't. Even if we outright double the cost of our factories, that doesn't nothing to solve the problem.
 
Tabron89 said:
Hey....that is a good idea....maybe have a contract with the Council that for every five Turian dreadnaughts we build, we are allowed to build three for the Asari and Salarians and one for SA, the Volus, Elcor and so on?
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Transcendent Humanity did something like this. In the later chapters, the council claimed that humanity had devalued dreadnaughts as political gifts, and asked them for something else as a concession.
 
Lagrange said:
Transcendent Humanity did something like this. In the later chapters, the council claimed that humanity had devalued dreadnaughts as political gifts, and asked them for something else as a concession.
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Well in our case, we'd be selling them, not giving them away. We would also have to explain to the Citadel Council why they should buy our dreadnoughts, since that would amount to a military buildup, and might spark a war with the Terminus Systems.
 
To seriously limit you, the cost difference I was thinking was not double, tripple or quadruple. It was 100 times more. Possibly with reduction in the prices of shipyards.

Even at ten times the price, a Fac 3 earns its construction costs back 3 times in one year.
 
Esbilon said:
To seriously limit you, the cost difference I was thinking was not double, tripple or quadruple. It was 100 times more. Possibly with reduction in the prices of shipyards.

Even at ten times the price, a Fac 3 earns its construction costs back 3 times in one year.
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I think that perhaps, in retrospect(hindsight being 20/20), our profit margins were too high. But no use crying over spilt milk. My suggestion is to limit by resources, making each expanded production point cost more to produce things, like has been previously mentioned. This would put a soft cap on our production, limited only by our willingness to spend money on it.
 
What I was posting was basically offering part of a solution. By literally building the equivalent of a small cities worth of infrastructure around the factory we can not only improve our output but we can also improve our public opinion. Suddenly you can in fact move out of crowded earth and out to the colonies while still having all the benefits of staying in a heavily built up area.


The idea of multiplying it by 100 sounds extreme. No one would ever be able to build factories is that was the case. They are just way to expensive and that doesn't make sense given just how cheap it should be getting with access to all the current tech. Omnigel people? multiply it by 25 and then add my idea however and it fits the mold a bit better. Still ridiculously expensive but it doesn't break SOD by just reading it once.
 
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Your idea breaks SOD too - consider Elysium. All that infrastructure is already there, why would we have to rebuild it?


Something that affects profits derived from the production would probably make more sense.
 
Esbilon said:
To seriously limit you, the cost difference I was thinking was not double, tripple or quadruple. It was 100 times more. Possibly with reduction in the prices of shipyards.

Even at ten times the price, a Fac 3 earns its construction costs back 3 times in one year.
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It doesn't work. If the costs for building factories are that stupidly high, the question would be how *anyone* ever managed to create large corporations such as H-K, Rosenkov, or Cord-Hislop, without the benefit of Revy's ultra-tech.
 
Kelenas said:
It doesn't work. If the costs for building factories are that stupidly high, the question would be how *anyone* ever managed to create large corporations such as H-K, Rosenkov, or Cord-Hislop, without the benefit of Revy's ultra-tech.
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Well, a hundred was probably too high, but I figured 10 was too low, and being a physicists, that was the next number I thought of.

Also, most companies grow by having a moderate starting capital, then run a factory for several years and then build a new factory. You're currently able to build a new factory after running your old one for less than two weeks.
 
Esbilon said:
To seriously limit you, the cost difference I was thinking was not double, tripple or quadruple. It was 100 times more. Possibly with reduction in the prices of shipyards.

Even at ten times the price, a Fac 3 earns its construction costs back 3 times in one year.
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If you were being paid full time for this, I would be recommending you to figure out where you want us to be in X years, then pull up a spreadsheet and try out different schemes that would get us about where you want after that much time.

Since that would take hours of work (that honestly isn't all that fun or interesting), I put up a very tweakable system that lets you limit us by the numbers in terms of planet expansion. With the right resource cost settings, factory profits can be tweaked to only pay themselves back over the course of a full year, or multiple years. You can then limit our expansion over the next year or so by deciding what types of planets are available for us to expand to. It can set up a world where we could make 1 million production units, but never exceed 4.5B in profit. It can also set up a world where we could make 10.5B in profit off of 3 factory III's.

Van Ropen said:
Your idea breaks SOD too - consider Elysium. All that infrastructure is already there, why would we have to rebuild it?


Something that affects profits derived from the production would probably make more sense.
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Hmm, We could probably set up something similar, but with how easy our end products are to ship around I don't really see why individual planets would have hugely different demand. If we're going to do a Supply/Demand affecting our price per unit situation, I think it should apply to our total manufacturing volume (regardless of where the factories are).

The problem with that setup is when we start creating that demand ourselves. Our overall sale price should only be changed by products we put on the market. That would mean any excess production beyond that would only be useful in making things for ourselves.

Of course, if we every start making factory ships that can make factory ships, we would bypass credits directly and blow up exponentially anyways.
 
Esbilon said:
Well, a hundred was probably too high, but I figured 10 was too low, and being a physicists, that was the next number I thought of.

Also, most companies grow by having a moderate starting capital, then run a factory for several years and then build a new factory. You're currently able to build a new factory after running your old one for less than two weeks.
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Yes, because we continue to churn out technology that basically translates into a license to print money. I'm still not sure why that actually surprises you; that we'd become filthy rich in a very short amount of time was never in doubt at any point, from what I recall.
 
I don't think it's the money, it's the production potential which is problematic. Even if we end up filthy megacorp rich, there should be some limits to how much stuff we can produce. If we can churn out an entire fleet in a year, that's a problem.
 
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