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It's unpolished because it's a small studio's first title in the genre (a lot of UI work to do for example) but the meat is there.
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Millennia
- Thread starter tankdrop24
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It's unpolished because it's a small studio's first title in the genre (a lot of UI work to do for example) but the meat is there.
tankdrop24
Tread First into Hell
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I really hope the reviews and kneejerk responses to Millenia's general roughness don't cause this game to fall into obscurity. It has issues, but the core ideas are strong enough to deserve refinement.
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I've seen big youtubers enjoying it so I don't think all the reviews are negative. And yeah some of them are the usual paradox players, but also civ players. I agree the shell has incredible potential.
I think what I enjoy the most is that it brings that boardgame vibe back to the genre. You can imagine the goods being wooden cubes you move from building to building.
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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It feels really good so far, really barebones in a lot of ways but with some fascinating ideas in it.
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Pdox is the publisher, it's pretty clear they've adapted the formula of initial release being the shell and DLC being the flavor. Reminds me a lot of Victoria 3 at release. It's probably still a bit more replayable due to the random and branching aspects.
Main issue I have right now is QoL stuff. Unit movement in particular is a real pain and they really need a separate layer for civilian units so they don't get stuck.
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(copy and pasting this from a different forum I post on since I'm not interested in just repeating myself lol)
I've played Millenia for about an hour in and my initial verdict is that it has some really interesting ideas but overall really needs to cook more. The focus on multiple distinct and branching technological ages is very cool and has the potential to lead to much more replayability then is typical for this type of game. However the game as a whole does feel kind of underbaked, I don't have any specific issue to point to but there's just this general feeling that the game isn't quite done yet. The only thing that really offends me is the godawful combat, it opens up this little window where you see your guys fighting and it's just the ugliest thing I've ever seen. It doesn't meaningfully hurt the game but it makes combat more tiresome then it needs to be. Another design decision that I'm not fond of but isn't quite as bad as the combat is how under-characterized the other empires are, unlike literally every other Civlike 4x I've played it doesn't bother to give the other factions a unique portrait which really makes it hard to view them as discrete characters and actors. Similar to the combat it doesn't necessarily make the game worse on a mechanical level but it does make it feel oddly empty.
That said the feature I probably like the most has to be the economic system. The city management is pretty bog-standard (and has rather uninspired visual design- notice a pattern?) but what's most exciting to me is that resources are not just a matter of flat bonuses to the city harvesting them. There seems to be a pretty complex supply chain where you can take one resource and convert it into other, which is pretty crazy for a Civlike. You shouldn't expect Victoria levels of economic sophisticated but it's much more then what is normal for genre. I'm sure there's more but this is just what immediately jumped out at me.
TLDR: Millenia probably isn't worth $40 but I don't regret buying it. There is the potential for a great game here and I hope the devs have the opportunity to realize it. I'm not going to uninstall it but I'm also not going to uninstall Civ 6
I've played Millenia for about an hour in and my initial verdict is that it has some really interesting ideas but overall really needs to cook more. The focus on multiple distinct and branching technological ages is very cool and has the potential to lead to much more replayability then is typical for this type of game. However the game as a whole does feel kind of underbaked, I don't have any specific issue to point to but there's just this general feeling that the game isn't quite done yet. The only thing that really offends me is the godawful combat, it opens up this little window where you see your guys fighting and it's just the ugliest thing I've ever seen. It doesn't meaningfully hurt the game but it makes combat more tiresome then it needs to be. Another design decision that I'm not fond of but isn't quite as bad as the combat is how under-characterized the other empires are, unlike literally every other Civlike 4x I've played it doesn't bother to give the other factions a unique portrait which really makes it hard to view them as discrete characters and actors. Similar to the combat it doesn't necessarily make the game worse on a mechanical level but it does make it feel oddly empty.
That said the feature I probably like the most has to be the economic system. The city management is pretty bog-standard (and has rather uninspired visual design- notice a pattern?) but what's most exciting to me is that resources are not just a matter of flat bonuses to the city harvesting them. There seems to be a pretty complex supply chain where you can take one resource and convert it into other, which is pretty crazy for a Civlike. You shouldn't expect Victoria levels of economic sophisticated but it's much more then what is normal for genre. I'm sure there's more but this is just what immediately jumped out at me.
TLDR: Millenia probably isn't worth $40 but I don't regret buying it. There is the potential for a great game here and I hope the devs have the opportunity to realize it. I'm not going to uninstall it but I'm also not going to uninstall Civ 6
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Yeah that's about right. The main draw is the promise of the economic supply chain stuff and greater depth of city management. I don't mind the graphics. Frankly I don't think civlikes really need them, give me a clean boardgame kinda look any day, but the combat popup is...pretty urge yeah.
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I've commented on it before, I really like how they went back to micromanagement boardgames for inspiration with the supply chain stuff. I definitely think it needs a bit of polish, for example around how you send stuff between cities and balance your production across your empire, but the little hex tiles and small tangible resource tokens really bring German board games vibes to the table I like.
Missed marketing opportunity by not directly aiming at this space honestly. Commit to the bit and make the citizens meeple.
I just want more options at game setup, because it is yet another bloody black boxed unity title I can't just go in and alter it myself on the fly, is that too much to ask?
How agressive/numerous should the barbs be - I'd like to alter that. I'd also like a 1 faction start because holy crap there so many systems and... whoops the AI triggered the Age of Plague, why I am getting flashback to Sword of the Stars and AI player factions not being able to handle the AI tech uprising / some Crisis and me getting steamrolled out of nowhere?
How agressive/numerous should the barbs be - I'd like to alter that. I'd also like a 1 faction start because holy crap there so many systems and... whoops the AI triggered the Age of Plague, why I am getting flashback to Sword of the Stars and AI player factions not being able to handle the AI tech uprising / some Crisis and me getting steamrolled out of nowhere?
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My opinion on war has shifted a little bit after a few more hours of play, the combat animation was off-putting and weird at first but now it's kind of grown on me. I still don't understand why they didn't just add a normal civ style combat system, surely that would've been easier to animate in a more aesthetically pleasing and less clunky manner? But despite that it's kind of charming in a Eurojank sort of way. It's the sort of mechanic you'd expect in a decades old strategy game that no one knows about. It's neat.
On the topic of war, I have to commend the AI's aggression. My first China game ended when I declared war on the Aztecs and after a few skirmishes they sent an army that managed to push past my frontlines and seize my capital. It's partially a product of my own inexperience but Civ never managed to make AI that was so proactive in a mid-tier difficulty. I've abandoned far more games then I've lost, it's neat to have a game that seems to reject that.
On the topic of war, I have to commend the AI's aggression. My first China game ended when I declared war on the Aztecs and after a few skirmishes they sent an army that managed to push past my frontlines and seize my capital. It's partially a product of my own inexperience but Civ never managed to make AI that was so proactive in a mid-tier difficulty. I've abandoned far more games then I've lost, it's neat to have a game that seems to reject that.
None of the Pdox dev studio games have come out with a part missing. They are all complete experiences for the release.
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They're functional experiences, but often more focused on delivering the engine and core gameplay loop than adding flavour. We saw it with Vic3. It was a real step up in terms of economic simulation compared to anything we've had before but every country felt very similar and even laws didn't change that much until they went back to the DLC mill.
That's the game. A solid functioning core. They could just drop the games and then never touch them again and the games are complete. They are coherent baked experiences
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I never claimed otherwise? I don't think paradox called for a white knight. It's fine, you don't have to go on a crusade in favour of their economic model. I like their releases most of the time, and I think Victoria 3 is a great willingness to sink massive efforts into the initial release being an engine first.
I just think this is also what's happening with Millennia.
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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Honestly? Good. They're never well implemented and are never an interesting part of the game.
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That's basically nothing? The engine and core gameplay loop are definitely there.
I'm trying to remember pdox titles at release and how much clunk and missing stuff they had and that definitely match.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
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I've been doing a bastardized 1 faction start by doing the same-computer hotseat (can just set a second faction to 'human' under the ai level dropdown) and just having that other one sit there doing nothing. Put the production to the 'make improvement points' project, and all you have to do is go in and click a new research every once in a while (and/or hit fortify on one of the units that spawn from a tech), and after the first couple ages the fact that they only have the base knowledge gain means they take longer between each tech/interaction. Side benefit of removing the temptation to abuse the undo button to scout cause you lose the undo button on hotseat
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Some of the crisis ages are a bit too easy to fall into, even as a player. Simply unlocking religion and failing to build enough faith quickly, for example, is enough to fall into intolerance. Probably something to balance and revise with the concept. Age of blood seems a lot more purposeful so that's not really all of them.
I was pondering this one, and it seems promising, but I might hold off until it gets a bit more polished.
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Yeah, that's where I'm coming down on, too. It has a great potential and I'm hoping that updates and DLC will help realize it. Until then, I'll hold off and play some of the many, many, many other games that are out there. And I really do hope it becomes as good as we all want it to be.
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Finished my first full playthrough. It was enjoyable and felt quite flavourful thanks to the age mechanics. I went aether and ecology, which felt very rewarding. Ended up with a magic powered book economy for knowledge and magic powered pop culture clothes economy for culture, gold and art xp. Barely dabbled into computers because the duplicate paper from aether and publishing houses were doing quite well already and I blazed through the last 2 ages. Won a transcendance victory by using artist spam to fill out all the social fabric tracks. It really felt like an appropriate victory considering I was allied with everyone and pulling in treaties with all of them. The peaceful unification narrative vibe.
Since I was Japan, I guess it's manga and kimono for everyone
There was quite a bit of jank along the way, most noticeable of which being unit pathing, an issue that has plagued the genre since Civ went one unit per tile. It feels like Millennia missed the memo on some of the lessons Civ learned the hard way, like the necessity to have civilian units on a separate layer able to move through allies. You can't even go through allied towns (not just cities). But it was overall very enjoyable and the only game breaking bug happened on the end game screen.
I think I'm going to do a more sedate normal age run to enjoy the ages I rushed through.
Since I was Japan, I guess it's manga and kimono for everyone
There was quite a bit of jank along the way, most noticeable of which being unit pathing, an issue that has plagued the genre since Civ went one unit per tile. It feels like Millennia missed the memo on some of the lessons Civ learned the hard way, like the necessity to have civilian units on a separate layer able to move through allies. You can't even go through allied towns (not just cities). But it was overall very enjoyable and the only game breaking bug happened on the end game screen.
I think I'm going to do a more sedate normal age run to enjoy the ages I rushed through.