Millennia

Huh, what do people have against turn based? I pause PDX games so much they may as well be. Looks like it might be interesting though there's too little to really judge yet.
 
stratigo said:
there is room in the historical 4x genre for a refutation of civ's whiggish history. But I do worry that there is difficulty in crafting mechanics that aren't based, inherently, on established human progress. Humankind failed to make it.
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I'd submit that anything that really approaches decent history (and takes the sweep of human history as its timeframe) would have to diverge so far from '4x' as to be clearly mislabeled.

Maybe in some sense civilizations stand the test of time, but states don't. (In some times and places they aren't even really present.) And the 4x is very much a game of states.


(Taking the Civilization 'player as driving spirit of a statecivilization' setup would also become so much more cursed if you substituted ethnic group or culture for state.)
 
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I feel like you could expand on the CK3 religion and culture mechanics and have your people evolve/change over the ages, with "progress" being lateral as often as progressive.
 
Undead Martyr said:
I feel like you could expand on the CK3 religion and culture mechanics and have your people evolve/change over the ages, with "progress" being lateral as often as progressive.
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You can plausibly make a simulation that models human progression in a less silly way, though IDK whether CK3 is the best starting material (I played some 2, haven't played 3 yet that I recall). But where's the player factor in to turn that into a game, is the tricky bit.

In Crusader Kings, the player is at any given time playing one particular person, with who they play as passing according to inheritance rules. The result is a game that's decidedly not a 4x - you can play parts of it a bit like one, but there are a bunch of other bits that you have to fight every step of the way as you do. But dynastic power doesn't hold up through the sweep of human history anyway.
 
I don't have an issue with it being 4x, I do have an issue with it being mostly stale-looking outside of the ages mechanic. The UI looks very mediocre and generic, the unit sprites don't look great and the overall vibe is very knockoff civ. There's nothing that really pulls me or is shaking things up otherwise.

I don't have any big expectations.
 
It's civ with some different mechanics to it that set it apart enough for me to feel like it's relatively fresh, while still being familiar enough that there's almost 0 learning curve.

Greatly enjoyed my time with the demo.
 
One thing they need to change is that if you buy Tribalism Perfected before a new government type is ready to unlock, you can't do a peaceful revolution at a later point. It's violent or nothing. Bad design, at least with how little information is made clear about the consequences right now.

Edit: Okay, so it's in another menu than the one that you enact the decision in. Still not a fan.
 
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Played a few games of the demo. It has a good compromise on one unit per tile with multi unit armies, it has a solid economic setup (production chains, in a civlike!), the sense of history through the age is great, the balance of your various "mana" points is actually engaging because they're not monarch points but stuff you actively go out of your way to produce, your game feels driven by the environment which is nice (I got a start with a lot of hunt and went for the hunter tradition and it was Very Good), the way you expand through vassals and outposts is nice... Yeah I think this is working for me so far, looking forward to the full release.

Main thing I'd add is maybe an initial bonus unlocked per historical civ so they feel a bit distinct? I didn't see any. Maybe that's just WIP and will replace the "choose your own bonus" at game creation.
 
Agreed. To be honest I had zero hype for this game but after playing a little, this is fun. And not as much of a civ knock-off as I feared by a long shot.
 
After playing around with the demo, I am cautiously optimistic. So far, it sits in a balance between the more board gamey 4Xs like modern Civ and the more sim focused 4Xs like EU4, old Civ, etc., that suits my tastes well.

Also, it's a small thing, but I like that the starting civ selection comes with a default minor bonus but that you can choose any civ/bonus combination.
 
Demo of Millennia picked my curiosity, but this got my attention:

Age of Alchemy (Variant)
This Variant Age lets you explore an alternate history where elements of alchemy are more than pseudoscience. Arcana is introduced in this Age as a Good as are Alchemists, Improvements to make use of the new resources and Goods lines. Signature to the idea of alchemy, this Age treats Gold as a prominent Good and allows a number of ways to obtain it and also to convert it into a wide variety of resources. Many of the Ages involve additions or changes to the economic model but this more extensive in Alchemy.
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Age of Aether (Variant)
The Aether Variant Age is inspired by predictions about the future made in the late 1800s. This supposes things like a continuation of steam power and skies above cities filled with flying vehicles. Aether unlocks a number of unique additions that come from this space, including Steam Fighter aircraft, Land Ships, and Improvements operated by automata workers. At the center of all of this is a new resource, Aether, which is (among other things) a different early source of Power.
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Age of Visitors (Crisis)
You don't want me to ruin this one for you, do you? Look, if you send messages into space, be careful, because you don't always know who is on the other end of that telephone. This Crisis Age lets you find out, as they show up and start doing unkind things to you and your fellow humans.
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Age of Singularity (Victory)
In the end stages of Millennia, there are some technologies that allow Nations to really build up their Knowledge economy. Everyone likes Knowledge, it's fun to unlock new Technologies. But, there are risks with this. If you go too much, too fast in a rush to get as much Knowledge as possible, the obvious will happen. The "obvious" being that the computers wake up and decide to eradicate humanity. So, as far as "victory" Ages are concerned, this one might seem a little un-victorious in that it produces a powerful, angry, enemy-to-all AI that starts rampaging across the planet. However, the victory condition here is "survive that" and if you have better defenses than the other Nations, it might be the way to go.
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I like the use of alternate ages as a way to do sillier things but not have them into every game.

I am really hyped for this. The demo was great and it looks like they're putting the time to make the later ages interesting too.

I didn't expect this to be the next pdox release I cared about because "new civlike" has been a recipe for disappointment for a while (including the official civs, in my opinion) but we're kinda overdue a good one.
 
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The only issue I potentially see is that they will stuff new Ages into DLCs.
 
Yeah, this won't be a Day 1 buy because I never do that, but if the reviews are as good as I hope, it will probably be a Day 4 buy.
 
I probably will resist getting it until day 3 or 4 just because it's coming out on a Tuesday and I do not need that kind of diversion mid work week...
 
So it is out, to...not great reviews. Though I wouldn't trust review aggregation too much with Paradox.

Looking forward to reading what early adopters think though...
 
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