Millennia

Could anyone actually make a historically-grounded prehistoric 4X game that wouldn't be boring?
 
Could anyone actually make a historically-grounded prehistoric 4X game that wouldn't be boring?
I could see it pretty easily, to be honest. Like, we obviously have the most singularly limited insights into human prehistory possible, what with the whole obvious "hmm, not much of any help survives 30'000+ or so years, especially with zero writing", but even archaeological insight shows that we were not like, just dumb barely above apes in the old times of humanity.

Like I was very specific with that number of 30'000 years ago, because there are bodies, specifically Sunghir-1, in Russia from that long ago with some staggeringly complex jewelry that require mind boggling amounts of centralized effort and time to have even considered doing, let alone actually having, and archaeological evidence around that area suggesting they had 'forts'.

In all likelihood, it was seasonal, and to be clear I'm not suggesting here some, wild ass pseudo-archaeology of "HYPERBOREA, THE LOST CIVILIZATIONS, A BURNING AGE OF GREAT TEMPLES, FORGOTTEN SECRETS OF METALURGY, THE ALL-SUPERPOWERFUL SUPERHUMANS" or some nonsense, but like, those peoples were a lot more advanced than pop culture, or pop archaeology likes to suggest. Historically accurate is literally incompatible with "uhhhh, they wore. Animal prints. I Guess.", or hell, even some of what pop culture usually tries to show off as 'accurate' (I', looking at you, Far Cry Primal, with ya weird ass D&D DMs First Progress Vs Druidism Plot). Like the oldest most totted around earliest human language we have, Proto-Indo European, the default "oh that's the old shit, the progenitor to everything we know nowadays", that's the vaguest of broad strokes of an educated guess as to what people north of Babylon were saying at the same time. The depths of human history and complexity are wild in a way genuinely difficult to grasp and which we obviously do not have a perfect picture of, but you can still do lots with that.

Like, to speak from a gameplay perspective? Easy as fuck to make a historically accurate 4x title that could fit into what humans were probably like, and make some compelling storywork. Sure, we don't have exact crop agriculture down, but exploiting the natural landscape, ambiently cultivating the terrain to our needs, mutating maize from something you wouldn't even be able to want to try and bite off a stem into the super staple crop of two continents and that applying to other fruits and vegetables? Migratory patterns of pursuit and hunting, trying to strike the balance from season ti season, the semi-permanent homes and all-powerful trade networks that will be powerfully maintained to help support the highly revered great elders we shall dress in the finest of bone and ochre and hunted beasts, laid to rest under the earth in mighty scraped out tombs? The birth of medicine, or hell, to go from finding wolves as great dangers to be avoided or kept at wary distance to personal protector and killer? The eventual shift to control oxen?

That kind of enb and flow is the shit of the most addicting of gameplay loops.




And I Can Bet Your Ass The Paradox Game Will Have Maybe Only A Quarter Of It, because again, proto-idigenous-european is the usual go to in "We are the historically accurate ice age game" even though that language is more distant from 30'000 years ago than it is distant from now, or the fact the art is people in fucking animal pelt togas (although the sign of like. Actual proper structures that aren't just crude tents is a plus) and that's kind of an unavoidable issue because we are discussing lengths of time genuinely impossible to conceptualize in a meaningful level, but still. There's definitely something there. I just question how well Paradox can achieve it.

The one plus side to this is that, worst come to worst, the Paradox Interactive woe of "I have declared war in you, I have slaughtered your armies to a last, I have pillaged your capital, I have killed and killed and destroyed without fault and fail, what do you MEAN YOU STILL HAVE THIS FUCKING HIGH A MORALE AND WON'T SPLINTER OR GIVE UP ALREADY!?" would make sense in a context of "Oh that was just the seasonal place, that was their depository, they're still on the go, they still got a whole everything to escape into, this is gonna draaaaaag".
Can you guess that I really really really do not like how Crusaders King 3 or Stellaris handle warfare?
 
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As a prehistory-nerd, I don't dare hope it will be a game set before Imperator. Stellaris on the ground seems more likely. Though admittedly I would likely prefer a Paradox take on the Civ/Humankind to the existing offers in that genre.
 
I'm not suggesting here some, wild ass pseudo-archaeology of "HYPERBOREA, THE LOST CIVILIZATIONS, A BURNING AGE OF GREAT TEMPLES, FORGOTTEN SECRETS OF METALURGY, THE ALL-SUPERPOWERFUL SUPERHUMANS" or some nonsense,
So, like, you should be, because a prehistory game based on nonsense pseudo-archaeology sounds amazing, and far more interesting than a game that's based on anything historically accurate.

I kinda' want that now, where you start as a group of humans navigating a world filled with atlantises and hyperboreas and random ancient aliens and mole people or whatever the hell madness has been in vogue at some point, and try to survive and/or conquer somehow.

That sounds pretty damn rad. If paradox is planning some kind of historically reasonable thing, they should change tracks and go full tabloid (well, probably minus the incessant wild degrees of racism, but you get the idea) instead.
 
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So, like, you should be, because a prehistory game based on nonsense pseudo-archaeology sounds amazing, and far more interesting than a game that's based on anything historically accurate.

I kinda' want that now, where you start as a group of humans navigating a world filled with atlantises and hyperboreas and random ancient aliens and mole people or whatever the hell madness has been in vogue at some point, and try to survive and/or conquer somehow.

That sounds pretty damn rad. If paradox is planning some kind of historically reasonable thing, they should change tracks and go full tabloid (well, probably minus the incessant wild degrees of racism, but you get the idea) instead.

Isn't this just Dominions?
 
Eeehhh... Dominions is more myth, less ancient alien? But hell, it's definitely adjacent in sentiment and dominions is freakin' awesome, so. More? I'm down with more in that style coming from something other than illwinter.
 
Eeehhh... Dominions is more myth, less ancient alien? But hell, it's definitely adjacent in sentiment and dominions is freakin' awesome, so. More? I'm down with more in that style coming from something other than illwinter.

You mean designed by sane people with a competent UI instead of a clunky legacy laden mess that's absolutely impenetrable? Yeah, I'd like that too.

(Not sure Paradox would be the pick, but that's another discussion.)

Also it looks like it's just going to be Empire Earth/Civilisation, sadly.
 
The third teaser


View: https://twitter.com/AgeOfWonders4/status/1703423570217701668?t=x_t4eyCsxhLZLCR2q9bNWw&s=19

Anyhow, people dig around a bit and get a bit of better idea of what this might be.

Firstly, the game seem to be named "Millennia", according to this Twitter X account which was previously (apparently, they unfollowing after this got posted to Reddit) follow Paradox Interactive and C Prompt games, which seem to be the developer.



Secondly, the C Prompt Games website's "in development" page show three pictures, one of which is used for the first teaser while their "career" page also has a banner that is the same as todat's teaser. So it's pretty certain they are the actual developers.

There are also other pictures on their websites as well. An interesting one has a submarine in front of an bioshock-ish underwater city.


View: https://imgur.com/a/UtzwWFj

Also, the co-founder of the C Prompt Games was the lead designer of Age of Empires 2 and Age of Mythology, so people also think this might be Empire Earth/Age of Empire type of game rather than Civilization.

In any case, the mood over /r/paradoxplaza seem to be "Please don't be turn-based, please don't be turn-based, please don't be turn-based."
 
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I'm really hoping this is a fantasy GSG. Paradox already made a sci fi strategy game, and given the number of fantasy mods for CK and even EU I think there's a niche for it.
 
An Empire Earth/Age of Empire spiritual successor as opposed to "What if CK/EU as a fantasy setting" is my bet. Does explain the "Oh, behold, the dawn of the human race, people in animal skins and little huts, and then kingdoms and then some nonsense like medieval submarines" - just that sort of 90s light fantasy logic for these sort of games, like how a Priest could cast a spell that summons down disasters or changes factions and such. Watch the next photo be a big chunky sci fi robot or something.


… Which honestly is disappointing in a whole other way if that is the new game idea, "just a 90s idea, again" (just as an Age of Empires remaster is announced) as opposed to trying to capitalize on newer ideas (""fantasy adventure 4x" "ye olde hard mode nomadics people strategizer"), but I am speaking before the game is actually, like. Out. Or even properly announced.
 
I'm really hoping this is a fantasy GSG. Paradox already made a sci fi strategy game, and given the number of fantasy mods for CK and even EU I think there's a niche for it.
I don't think this will be it, but I wouldn't be surprised if Paradox Development Studio has at least the basic idea of a fantasy GSG pinned as a potential future project (or even in actual development in some form).
 
… Which honestly is disappointing in a whole other way if that is the new game idea, "just a 90s idea, again" (just as an Age of Empires remaster is announced) as opposed to trying to capitalize on newer ideas (""fantasy adventure 4x" "ye olde hard mode nomadics people strategizer"), but I am speaking before the game is actually, like. Out. Or even properly announced.
What does fantasy adventure 4X mean here because fantasy 4X games aren't exactly new? Those started in the 90's just like historical and space 4X games.
 
I mean, the thing I immediately think of when you say fantasy adventure 4X is the ol' Fantasy Empires game -- 4X, but the heroes were literally D&D classes and you sent them on quests and all that stuff. It was pretty neat, honestly. And yeah, released '93.

... nomadic people strategizer sounds like King of Dragon Pass, too, for that matter. '99 :V
 
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View: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1268590/Millennia/
www.gamewatcher.com

Paradox Interactive Unveils Millennia, A Turn-Based | GameWatcher

Developed by C Prompt Games, Millennia tasks us with leading a nation through ten historical ages while also giving us the opportunity to explore alternate histories.


Annnnd, it is a turn-based civ-like, to much disappointment of /r/paradoxplaza

I supposed the whole alternate histories is interesting, but I am not sure if the rest is enough to distinguished it from other civ-style games
 
So it's Literally Just Civ. RIP, I guess. That's a tough market to break into, given, y'know, Civ already exists and fills most of it.
 
While I'm not particularly enthused about this game, I will be willing to give it a shot if I hear good things about it.

A fantasy game would've been better, IMO. Or Stellaris II. Or, well, a big DLC for V3/CK3 (gimme republican/imperial government types!).
 
Oh hell yes.

A civlike where the course of history and science might not proceed down historical lines is something I've wanted ever since Civ IV's Caveman2Cosmos mod, with its xpunk alternate techs.

In the mod, they were just a one-off, giving you units more or less half an age ahead of time in exchange for an expensive tech that didn't lead to anything. But right from the start I dreamed of having whole alternate development paths. Extending that beyond just the tech tree into elements of society, culture, warfare, even environmental factors like plague, is even cooler than I'd hoped.

Execution is, as always, everything, but on a conceptual level this looks amazing.
 
The first dev diary, where they lay out some unique components for their take on the genre.

Millennia | Announcement

Hello, everyone! We’re excited to present the first Dev Diary for Millennia. In this, we’ll talk a little about the vision and features for the game and also about us, C Prompt Games. You can expect additional Diaries that go into more detail...
 
there is room in the historical 4x genre for a refutation of civ's whiggish history. But I do worry that there is difficulty in crafting mechanics that aren't based, inherently, on established human progress. Humankind failed to make it.
 
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