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Also, is there a list somewhere of what all the revised books are? I can't tell which ones are which?
Mage the Ascension Discussion, Homebrew, Worldbuilding, and Game finding.
- Thread starter TheLastOne
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If you have the materials, you can definitely skip Prime. Matter 2 in the text limits you to conceptually-homogeneous transformations of one material into another, so you could theoretically turn wood into iron or brass or maybe even steel, but whether you can do the relatively-complex metallurgy used in modern firearms is a question better put to the Storyteller (for what it's worth, from my own ST experience I'd say no, that's too specific/unusual). If you can't, you'll need Matter 4 to transform other stuff into the metals/plastics/etc needed for your said modern firearm.
Once you have the materials, though, enough successes on a series of Matter 3 effects would probably be enough to shape what you need, one individual part at a time. More moving parts means more work to do, so a muzzle-loading rifle would be less work than an AR-15. Yes, this is an issue for those mages who want to make complex machines by magic alone, and is a feature of the setting, not a bug. Even the Technocracy still makes use of factories, machinists, and other non-magical means of production to ease the burden for their day-to-day operations(, though their weird-science matter usage still demands the presence of mages to create). Matter 4 could create the entire functional weapon in a single effect (and cover the complexity factor of turning wood into your alloys as well, if probably require more successes than having the alloys or even several bars of random metal on hand).
For your list of all the Revised books, I'd check out this list here, starting at the year 2000. Older books aren't incompatible, per se, but the rules there may be superceded by later books, and other people have discussed the difference in setting vibes that the edition change covered.
Once you have the materials, though, enough successes on a series of Matter 3 effects would probably be enough to shape what you need, one individual part at a time. More moving parts means more work to do, so a muzzle-loading rifle would be less work than an AR-15. Yes, this is an issue for those mages who want to make complex machines by magic alone, and is a feature of the setting, not a bug. Even the Technocracy still makes use of factories, machinists, and other non-magical means of production to ease the burden for their day-to-day operations(, though their weird-science matter usage still demands the presence of mages to create). Matter 4 could create the entire functional weapon in a single effect (and cover the complexity factor of turning wood into your alloys as well, if probably require more successes than having the alloys or even several bars of random metal on hand).
For your list of all the Revised books, I'd check out this list here, starting at the year 2000. Older books aren't incompatible, per se, but the rules there may be superceded by later books, and other people have discussed the difference in setting vibes that the edition change covered.
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Thanks!
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm dming and I want to make sure I get this right.
With that said, when changing something with matter, the book says it's sometimes permanent but I can't find any examples of when that is?
If I change lead into gold is that a permanent change, or do I need to reapply it now and then? If I make a mech suit with Matter 4 (or several Matter 3 rolls) is it staying a mech suit or will it start to break down? Will I have to make those rolls every day?
Also using a mech as your focus, would increasing strength/durability be a matter 3 spell? I'm assuming it would basically be better body but applied to the suit instead of yourself?
Edit: is there a list if rotes somewhere? That would probably help a lot
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm dming and I want to make sure I get this right.
With that said, when changing something with matter, the book says it's sometimes permanent but I can't find any examples of when that is?
If I change lead into gold is that a permanent change, or do I need to reapply it now and then? If I make a mech suit with Matter 4 (or several Matter 3 rolls) is it staying a mech suit or will it start to break down? Will I have to make those rolls every day?
Also using a mech as your focus, would increasing strength/durability be a matter 3 spell? I'm assuming it would basically be better body but applied to the suit instead of yourself?
Edit: is there a list if rotes somewhere? That would probably help a lot
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- Denver Metro, CO, USA
The only solid rule I can readily find in the corebook about the permanency of effects is on the Magical Reference chart, under Damage/Duration, where it says that the default duration of a transformation is instantaneous/one turn and can be expanded with successes, with a ST option of "double successes required makes it permanent". As such, for the lead to gold trick to be permanent, you're probably looking at accumulating 4 successes; likewise, if we say that your mech suit serves as a Mighty Feat roughly equivalent to conjuring a fantastic creature, you'll need 5 successes base to effect the transformation, and could theoretically make it permanent with 10 successes. (There may be reasons you don't want to have a mech suit in your garage all the time, though, so temporary transformations do have their purpose!).
There's assuredly a multitude of rotes out there somewhere, but I'll be damned if I can think of where any might be in official texts. You can find a good fan list at Ander's Mage Page, which has gotten a facelift and an new URL since last I looked for it what must be a decade ago, and there's a bunch of other reasonably-solid discussion archived there from the old years of Usenet and mailing lists. I got sucked in there for days at a time in web dives of days gone past, so I'd recommend dipping your toes in if you've got the time and inclination to read additional material.
There's assuredly a multitude of rotes out there somewhere, but I'll be damned if I can think of where any might be in official texts. You can find a good fan list at Ander's Mage Page, which has gotten a facelift and an new URL since last I looked for it what must be a decade ago, and there's a bunch of other reasonably-solid discussion archived there from the old years of Usenet and mailing lists. I got sucked in there for days at a time in web dives of days gone past, so I'd recommend dipping your toes in if you've got the time and inclination to read additional material.
You can try the Broken Diamond actual play. To quote the Tvtropes article:
" The Broken Diamond follows the Crucible, a Cabal of Mages, as they navigate the politics of Washington, DC - the eponymous Broken Diamond - look for the line between their normal lives and the Supernal power that have placed them above Muggles and try to find out what it is they want to do with their unlimited power. What starts as a simple, almost makework task to discover who is painting graffiti of Atlantean glyphs, however, quickly becomes something with wide-ranging consequences for the whole city, if not the rest of the Fallen World. "
" The Broken Diamond follows the Crucible, a Cabal of Mages, as they navigate the politics of Washington, DC - the eponymous Broken Diamond - look for the line between their normal lives and the Supernal power that have placed them above Muggles and try to find out what it is they want to do with their unlimited power. What starts as a simple, almost makework task to discover who is painting graffiti of Atlantean glyphs, however, quickly becomes something with wide-ranging consequences for the whole city, if not the rest of the Fallen World. "
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
That's nMage, not oMage. Very good though.
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Also, I have been looking over forged in dragon's fire and the storytellers companion to try and get a handle on magical item creation before we start play, and I'm a little confused.
Artifacts/Inventions
When you create it, you give it an effect. This effect is activated by the user rolling their arete. If they get even one success, the effect activates.
- The difficulty of roll determined when you cast it?
- How does this affect things who's effects are based on how well you roll, like say a laser gun?
---- If I use a laser gun for the forces 3 rote of LASER! in front of a crowd, I roll (My Arete) vs Difficulty 8 (Vulgar with Witnesses)?
------ If so, then the biggest benefit to having a talisman is in many ways is that it provides access to rotes for sphere's you don't have, assuming your team does
- How do you make one?
Charms/Gadgets
- Single or Limited Use items (bottle of magic pills)
- Can be used by non-mages if they believe in the paradigm
- Built like an Artifact or invention but requires one less prime, so it can be forged with Prime 2 given the appropriate tass
Talisman/Device
- Crafting process
----- Pay 1 temp willpower
---- Roll Arete vs the difficulty of performing the effect (8 for Prime 3 Vulgar) each hour and succeed
------- Each success gives 1 Arete
------- Incorporate the same number of tass (Or Quintessence if you are Prime 4)
------- You do this until you roll a regular failure, at which point the Talisman is done. A botch ruins the work.
-------- Pay 1 permanent Willpower
- Each use drains 1 quintessence
- Has its own Arete which you may in place of your own when using this as a focus for effects inits paradigm
EX:
I am making a Ray Gun. This is VULGAR PRIME MAGIC
If I am using Tass it is Prime 3, if I am using Quint it is Prime 4, if the Artifact is alive it is Prime 5 (Prime 4 if you have the right Tass)
In this case, we will assume I have Tass, so this is a Prime 3 effect.
To begin crafting I spend 1 point of temporary WP.
Every hour I roll my Arete against difficulty 7 (Prime 3 + Vulgar)
I manage to get 5 successes before I fail.
- This gives it an Arete of 5?
- This costs me 5 points of Tass
This Talisman/Device may now be used by a mage as a focus in line with its paradigm (ray gun). This allows them to spend 1 quintessence to use its Arete instead of their own.
Permanent Enchantments:
You can make a spell permanent if you get twice the number of required successes. Good if you have a lot of time and no prime. Presumably, a lot of armour and swords are made this way.
So yeah, my big questions:
How do you make an Artifact/Wonder? What I have been able to find:
-Prime 3 with the right Tass
-Prime 4 with quintessence
-Prime 5 with Quintessence to make a living artefact
-- No other steps!?
Can you make any of these with an effect you don't have sphere's in? I want to say know, but then there isn't much point in having these yourself.
Clarity of advantages/ Disadvantages
Artifact/Wonder:
The effect is powered by your own Arete.
Main use is to provide you with abilities you otherwise wouldn't have. Some are also always on, so you can ignore the +1 difficulty of having multiple procedures active
Doesn't Cost Quintessence
Will want to collaborate with your party to give each other access to effects outside your spheres, or which require multiple spheres.
-- If a friend has forces 4, you can use this to give everyone jetpacks
-- Or have the friend with Correspondance and the friend with forces work together to provide you all with lightning sniper rifles
Charm/Gadget:
Easier to make
Limited Use
Again, not really super useful for yourself to have, but nice to hand off to friends.
Talisman/Device:
Has its own Arete, which will generally be higher than yours. Basically a super Foci. Great if you can think of a semi-versatile one, or have a rote you use constantly.
Costs 1 Quintessence/use
Artifacts/Inventions
When you create it, you give it an effect. This effect is activated by the user rolling their arete. If they get even one success, the effect activates.
- The difficulty of roll determined when you cast it?
- How does this affect things who's effects are based on how well you roll, like say a laser gun?
---- If I use a laser gun for the forces 3 rote of LASER! in front of a crowd, I roll (My Arete) vs Difficulty 8 (Vulgar with Witnesses)?
------ If so, then the biggest benefit to having a talisman is in many ways is that it provides access to rotes for sphere's you don't have, assuming your team does
- How do you make one?
Charms/Gadgets
- Single or Limited Use items (bottle of magic pills)
- Can be used by non-mages if they believe in the paradigm
- Built like an Artifact or invention but requires one less prime, so it can be forged with Prime 2 given the appropriate tass
Talisman/Device
- Crafting process
----- Pay 1 temp willpower
---- Roll Arete vs the difficulty of performing the effect (8 for Prime 3 Vulgar) each hour and succeed
------- Each success gives 1 Arete
------- Incorporate the same number of tass (Or Quintessence if you are Prime 4)
------- You do this until you roll a regular failure, at which point the Talisman is done. A botch ruins the work.
-------- Pay 1 permanent Willpower
- Each use drains 1 quintessence
- Has its own Arete which you may in place of your own when using this as a focus for effects inits paradigm
EX:
I am making a Ray Gun. This is VULGAR PRIME MAGIC
If I am using Tass it is Prime 3, if I am using Quint it is Prime 4, if the Artifact is alive it is Prime 5 (Prime 4 if you have the right Tass)
In this case, we will assume I have Tass, so this is a Prime 3 effect.
To begin crafting I spend 1 point of temporary WP.
Every hour I roll my Arete against difficulty 7 (Prime 3 + Vulgar)
I manage to get 5 successes before I fail.
- This gives it an Arete of 5?
- This costs me 5 points of Tass
This Talisman/Device may now be used by a mage as a focus in line with its paradigm (ray gun). This allows them to spend 1 quintessence to use its Arete instead of their own.
Permanent Enchantments:
You can make a spell permanent if you get twice the number of required successes. Good if you have a lot of time and no prime. Presumably, a lot of armour and swords are made this way.
So yeah, my big questions:
How do you make an Artifact/Wonder? What I have been able to find:
-Prime 3 with the right Tass
-Prime 4 with quintessence
-Prime 5 with Quintessence to make a living artefact
-- No other steps!?
Can you make any of these with an effect you don't have sphere's in? I want to say know, but then there isn't much point in having these yourself.
Clarity of advantages/ Disadvantages
Artifact/Wonder:
The effect is powered by your own Arete.
Main use is to provide you with abilities you otherwise wouldn't have. Some are also always on, so you can ignore the +1 difficulty of having multiple procedures active
Doesn't Cost Quintessence
Will want to collaborate with your party to give each other access to effects outside your spheres, or which require multiple spheres.
-- If a friend has forces 4, you can use this to give everyone jetpacks
-- Or have the friend with Correspondance and the friend with forces work together to provide you all with lightning sniper rifles
Charm/Gadget:
Easier to make
Limited Use
Again, not really super useful for yourself to have, but nice to hand off to friends.
Talisman/Device:
Has its own Arete, which will generally be higher than yours. Basically a super Foci. Great if you can think of a semi-versatile one, or have a rote you use constantly.
Costs 1 Quintessence/use
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- Denver Metro, CO, USA
Without access to Forged in Dragon's Fire-specific mechanics, my understanding is as follows:
-- Anything that has to be activated on-site gets rolled against the difficulty as though they were casting the rote like normal. Continuous Effects activate without a roll when they're worn by an Awakened user.
-- Thus, you can make convenient always-on effects (Matter 3 to make normal clothing as protective as heavy armor, Forces 2 to create a Ring of Invisibility, Correspondence 1 to create Portal-Detecting Goggles, etc.) in addition to Wands of Abyssal Flame-Casting (Forces 3 Prime 2), Aperture Science™-brand Portal Guns (Correspondence 4), or transforming Ferrari Automobile-Battle Armor with Integrated Solar Corona Plasma Cannons (Matter 4 to transform, Matter 4 for exotic Armor composition and Strength bonuses, Forces 3/Prime2 for plasma cannons).
To create your Artifacts, the lead designer (and anyone who wants to lend their expertise) must have sufficient Sphere ranks to be able to perform the desired effect(s) themselves. They must also have Prime 3 if they are working with Tass of appropriate Resonance, Prime 4 without (and making living/biological artifacts increases the Prime level required by 1.
you first calculate the level of the artifact by summing together the total number of Sphere dots for each level of Standard (ie. activated) effect in your Artifact, and double the dots for any Continuous effect (so the FABA-ISCPC mentioned above would be 4+(3+2)+4x2+4x2= 25). You have to get double that number of successes in an extended roll, and spend 1 Quintessence per level of that artifact. The FABA-ISCPC is obviously an outlier on extremely high-level crafting, and to power its plasma cannons you're also looking at building a Periapt to store Quintessence, but it has the bonus of being technically usable by even a just-Awakened rube in duress. They'd have trouble using the plasma cannons at all predictably, but they could at least fight their way to safety and then theoretically transform the armor into the Ferrari to get away.
Your understanding seems correct, here, with the addition that if the effect is harmonious with the local paradigm (hinterlands for magic potions, shiny cities for supertech), it tends to be less vulgar also.
Functionally accurate with modifications formatted in.
You have to know all the effects you want to put into a Wonder before you can create it -- after all, you do have to successfully ritual-cast the effect yourself as part of the process of empowering the device. The benefits are being able to have a reliable focus on hand that you can pass off to others, or to have reliable access to a reliable, useful effect without having to cast and that doesn't count as sustaining an effect. The full creation rules are on page 54 of the StComp.
Storyteller's Companion also mentions an experience point cost of 2xp per level of the Wonder in question in addition to anything else, as a price for Background dots made after character creation; I don't know where to corroborate this off the cuff.
There are some practical limits on Artifacts and their complexity, even if you don't bother with the experience cost I mentioned above. Each person who wants to make something needs to have Prime 3 and a lot of properly-Resonant Tass -- or Prime 4 and a lot of properly-Resonant Quintessence, at the very least -- and Tass and Quintessence are definitely uncommon resources at best. Also, each Artifact whose effect requires Quintessence has to be supplied like normal per use, or built with an integrated Periapt. Finally, the lightning sniper rifles you mention, with parts made by different people, would be separate Artifacts with separate activation rolls, which is double the chance for things to go screwy. Bad rolls happen very easily when you're rolling three-odd dice on an Arete check, and Paradox loves to haunt botches.
Or if you're in a pinch and can't spare the juice to do something for yourself. Again, some days you really just don't want to chance a bad roll.
Functionality as corrected.
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What difficulty is the roll against, and how can the unawakened use an artifact if they don't have arete?
Also artifact armor seems like it would just straight be better than an artifact weapon, since you can make the the armor durability as an extended casting roll? Since it would be a continuous effect you can take the time to apply it out of combat and get like a really high value. Thinking about adjusting it so you can do the same for attack rolls. Basically let you cast "forces 3 laser" or whatever and just have the item use that same roll every time you use the device
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- Location
- Denver Metro, CO, USA
The diff to create an Artifact is as if you were doing it like a normal spell in the environment you are preparing it in. Hope you have a cozy sanctum to hole up in for your practice!
I would seriously advise against granting static rolls for activated Wonders. It might streamline things in the moment, but the tack-on results downstream lend themselves very quickly to abuse and verisimilitude issues. I tend to go with two major precepts when I have run Mage: one is that offensive magic should never be entirely reliable, and two is that if mages are not at least mildly concerned with the possibility of accruing Paradox, then one of the major anchors of the setting (that magic is amazing and can solve your problems but always at a risk) falls apart, and static, reliable uses of Artifacts undermine both possibilities. Even the world's most impressive defense can be maneuvered around if a mage is canny, and the flexibility in doing so is a major conceit of this sort of thing as it is.
The unawakened cannot use Artifacts, no.
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Do artifacts not generate paradox?
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- my house
Could someone explain how damage works in mage revised? As I understand it it goes like this:
Melee/Brawl
Roll to see if hit:
If hit, roll damage. The amount of dice you roll is the number listed under damage for your weapon. Each success on these die is one damage.
Guns:
Roll to see if hit, each success rolled here adds an additional damage die.
Roll dice equal to (Success on to hit roll + Damage die listed for weapon), each success here deals one damage
Melee/Brawl
Roll to see if hit:
If hit, roll damage. The amount of dice you roll is the number listed under damage for your weapon. Each success on these die is one damage.
Guns:
Roll to see if hit, each success rolled here adds an additional damage die.
Roll dice equal to (Success on to hit roll + Damage die listed for weapon), each success here deals one damage
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
The target of the attack gets a Dexterity + Dodge roll to oppose the attack and a Soak (Stamina + Armor) roll to reduce the damage, but otherwise that's how I remember it.
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- my house
So we had our first session yesterday, and it was fun, but I could use some help. Im playing an ItX with matter 3 force 3, and I'm having trouble coming up with things to do with Matter.
I've done a matter version of better body with a mech suit, but other than that I dont really have many ideas.
Anyone have ideas for fun things to do with matter?
I've done a matter version of better body with a mech suit, but other than that I dont really have many ideas.
Anyone have ideas for fun things to do with matter?
dragonx99
Actually Satan
Not with liberal use of nanomachines they're not. Gave my Itxer a pair of 'nanofabricator gloves' specifically for that purpose.
- Location
- Austria
I have some ideas, but I've never been good in judging how many spheres stuff need, so here are just few suggestion I'm not sure will work for you (especially since me and my friends, since getting into Mage, haven't really focused on rules and used them more as guidelines to have fun).
- Make gauntlets/bodysuit/weapons capable of changing density without changing shape. Keep low density for speed, but when hitting or being hit greatly increase density to make stuff harder and weigh more. [not sure if that won't need Prime though, ask experts]
- Boots that take water out of the ground you stomp in and have it gather around the boots (but not under them), then transform the internal energy from the water that's now on the ground (freezing it) into kinetic energy of your steps (letting you run faster, jump higher, or kick stronger). The weirdly-shaped ice will be slick and avoiding it will reqiure some effort, while you will have stronger legs, perfect for getting away from someone chasing you.
- A tool that weakens integrity of anything it strikes - can be used both as a weapon to overcome armor (not human bodies, that would require life, but the clothes worn by them are fair), and to break through stuff like walls. I mean, hitting and weakening armor is more efficient than just hitting armor, right?
- Robotic arms/tentacles that can be moved independently of your biological arms.
- Maybe you could find some inspiration with Stroheim showing you The Peak Of German Technology?
- Build a phone-sized computer capable of hacking into any computer through literally rebuilding the insides of hacked computer by sending electromagnetic impulses that can break chosen parts of memory. Alternatively, instead of breaking the hacked computer, you could go also the way of coping all the information coded in the hardware into your own computer, but without the blocks.
- Did you know that mercury is very poisonous? Who needs life to poison anybody! Make mercury out of random metal you find, change it into gaseus form, put into some spray, put on a mask and bodysuit, and spray any filthy barbarian that thinks waving some wooden staff and drawing satanistic circles will protect him from science! Oh, but have the mercury revert into liquid state and then into some less dangerous material after it stays some time outside the spray, you don't want killing the whole town.
- And finally, something I'm going to do the first chance I get to while playing matter technomancer, a car/motorbike that can transform into a battle form (giant robot would be best, but just having a motorbike that can shoot 10 rockets a second will be enough). A bit more seriously though, a car that can be decreased in size to a motorbike will let you drive between other cars and into small alleys, making you almost never lose car chase
Hope you liked it, and Force 3 /Matter 3 will be enough for any of them
- Make gauntlets/bodysuit/weapons capable of changing density without changing shape. Keep low density for speed, but when hitting or being hit greatly increase density to make stuff harder and weigh more. [not sure if that won't need Prime though, ask experts]
- Boots that take water out of the ground you stomp in and have it gather around the boots (but not under them), then transform the internal energy from the water that's now on the ground (freezing it) into kinetic energy of your steps (letting you run faster, jump higher, or kick stronger). The weirdly-shaped ice will be slick and avoiding it will reqiure some effort, while you will have stronger legs, perfect for getting away from someone chasing you.
- A tool that weakens integrity of anything it strikes - can be used both as a weapon to overcome armor (not human bodies, that would require life, but the clothes worn by them are fair), and to break through stuff like walls. I mean, hitting and weakening armor is more efficient than just hitting armor, right?
- Robotic arms/tentacles that can be moved independently of your biological arms.
- Maybe you could find some inspiration with Stroheim showing you The Peak Of German Technology?
- Build a phone-sized computer capable of hacking into any computer through literally rebuilding the insides of hacked computer by sending electromagnetic impulses that can break chosen parts of memory. Alternatively, instead of breaking the hacked computer, you could go also the way of coping all the information coded in the hardware into your own computer, but without the blocks.
- Did you know that mercury is very poisonous? Who needs life to poison anybody! Make mercury out of random metal you find, change it into gaseus form, put into some spray, put on a mask and bodysuit, and spray any filthy barbarian that thinks waving some wooden staff and drawing satanistic circles will protect him from science! Oh, but have the mercury revert into liquid state and then into some less dangerous material after it stays some time outside the spray, you don't want killing the whole town.
- And finally, something I'm going to do the first chance I get to while playing matter technomancer, a car/motorbike that can transform into a battle form (giant robot would be best, but just having a motorbike that can shoot 10 rockets a second will be enough). A bit more seriously though, a car that can be decreased in size to a motorbike will let you drive between other cars and into small alleys, making you almost never lose car chase
Hope you liked it, and Force 3 /Matter 3 will be enough for any of them
dragonx99
Actually Satan
is NANOMACHINES SON a viable use of Matter within ItX paradigm?
I mean she had her eyes replaced so that she could use them as focuses for all of her rank 1 spheres, I don't see why NANOMACHINES SON wouldn't be viable
is NANOMACHINES SON a viable use of Matter within ItX paradigm?
That's actually more Life than Matter.
Remember your sensory Spheres. You're good enough at engineering (or have a sensor suite/real-time modeling software in your gear) that you can see weakpoints (Matter 2, possibly Entropy), shatter steel into improvised projectiles (Matter 2, Forces 2), bring down a building with a well-placed shot (you can argue for doing that with Matter 2, Forces 3, doing a 'fireball'-sized amount of Forces damage with conjunctional Matter), hotwire a gas stove into an implausibly precise IED (Matter 3, Forces 2)... Plus, like, probably do some fun things with pure Matter 2 searches and senses, though you probably need some conjunctional Corr to really get the most out of that.
daedalus725
Kell of Kells, godking of Planet X
- Location
- Daedalus crater, The moon
I had this idea of the Technocracy making there own Mockery Breeds. Better than Pentex so much closer to natural shape shifters
I'm pretty sure that the Progenitors have already gone as far with that idea as they are willing to?