A while ago I mentioned an idea for a Paradigm stat. Here's my attempt at such a scale.
0: You believe in everything, from kung fu monks to wizards to superscience, with little to no idea to how it actually works. This is the level of a normal person who has seen a lot of supernatural stuff.
A paradigm of 1 or more is required to do non-consensual magic.
1: You believe in everything, similar to 0. However, you have some belief in the whys and hows, rather than just handwaving it. This is the minimum level to do any actual magic, and is typical for new Orphans.
2: You have begun to actively disbelieve in things, typically at least along the mystic/science divide. This is generally the minimum requirement to be a member in good standing in a Tradition.
3: Your paradigm has mostly solidified. At this point you begin to need to justify effects and tools that are atypical for your paradigm. Unlike 2, your excetions are things you can do, rather than things you can't. This is typical for a normal member of the Traditions.
4: Most fields of magic are closed to you. For instance, a Technocrat cannot use most Traditionalist magics. Unlike 3, this is now a hard barrier. This level is the minimum for a good Technocrat.
5: You're a magical chauvinist, unable to see any worth in viewpoints that are not extremely closely related to your own. This is common in Technocrats that are extremely partisan for their Convention.
Above 5 your beliefs are no longer tethered to reality, such as it is, and the force of your belief constantly works to warp reality in your vicinity. The magical strength of the character and degree of divergence determines how much others notice this divergence.
6: Your beliefs have minor divergences from reality, to the point that it's difficult to distinguish you from a normal Mage. A Marauder at this level is capable of fitting in with a normal group, or normal society, with little difficulty.
7: At this level, you can no longer fit into a mixed party, as your warped paradigm will damage their ability to function. However, reality itself will seem to function normally on a superficial level. However, if you pay attention you can easily notice the differences.
8: Your reality is no longer closely related to reality, but the laws of logic are. There might be a demon sitting astride the Empire State building preaching about the free market and puppetting people with innumerable invisible hands, but with some effort you can understand how things work. Fire burns and effect follows cause.
9: Reality no longer follows logic or physics consistently. Look to Alice in Wonderland or Timecube for an example of how this can appear to outsiders. Players can no longer play this character at all, and extended interaction should be avoided.
10: Your perception of reality is no longer understandable by normal humans. You are are either an NPC or an environmental effect, depending on the degree of power involved.
A while ago I mentioned an idea for a Paradigm stat. Here's my attempt at such a scale.
0: You believe in everything, from kung fu monks to wizards to superscience, with little to no idea to how it actually works. This is the level of a normal person who has seen a lot of supernatural stuff.
A paradigm of 1 or more is required to do non-consensual magic.
1: You believe in everything, similar to 0. However, you have some belief in the whys and hows, rather than just handwaving it. This is the minimum level to do any actual magic, and is typical for new Orphans.
2: You have begun to actively disbelieve in things, typically at least along the mystic/science divide. This is generally the minimum requirement to be a member in good standing in a Tradition.
3: Your paradigm has mostly solidified. At this point you begin to need to justify effects and tools that are atypical for your paradigm. Unlike 2, your excetions are things you can do, rather than things you can't. This is typical for a normal member of the Traditions.
4: Most fields of magic are closed to you. For instance, a Technocrat cannot use most Traditionalist magics. Unlike 3, this is now a hard barrier. This level is the minimum for a good Technocrat.
5: You're a magical chauvinist, unable to see any worth in viewpoints that are not extremely closely related to your own. This is common in Technocrats that are extremely partisan for their Convention.
Above 5 your beliefs are no longer tethered to reality, such as it is, and the force of your belief constantly works to warp reality in your vicinity. The magical strength of the character and degree of divergence determines how much others notice this divergence.
6: Your beliefs have minor divergences from reality, to the point that it's difficult to distinguish you from a normal Mage. A Marauder at this level is capable of fitting in with a normal group, or normal society, with little difficulty.
7: At this level, you can no longer fit into a mixed party, as your warped paradigm will damage their ability to function. However, reality itself will seem to function normally on a superficial level. However, if you pay attention you can easily notice the differences.
8: Your reality is no longer closely related to reality, but the laws of logic are. There might be a demon sitting astride the Empire State building preaching about the free market and puppetting people with innumeral invisible hands, but with some effort you can understand how things work. Fire burns and effect follows cause.
9: Reality no longer follows logic or physics consistently. Look to Alice in Wonderland or Timecube for an example of how this can appear to outsiders. Players can no longer play this character at all, and extended interaction should be avoided.
10: Your perception of reality is no longer understandable by normal humans. You are are either an NPC or an environmental effect, depending on the degree of power involved.
Upon reaching Arete/Enlightenment 5, there are two paths forwards, both of which interact with the Paradigm stat. The Path of the Aeon, and the Path of the Archon. Aeonites begin to realize the truth behind the world; that nothing is true and everything is permitted. They gradually free themselves from the constraints of Paradigm, and attempt to find the way to Ascension. In contrast, Archonites place ever more concerned with their Paradigm, gaining more temporal power in exchange for losing the way towards Ascension.
Upon reaching Arete/Enlightenment 6, an Aeonite gains an additional Paradigm consisting of 'Reality is based on consensus. Nothing and everything is true all at once.' This Paradigm has a permanent rating of 1. Aeonites can gain additional paradigms through spending xp, but can only use their additional paradigms with a limited number of Spheres. They choose one Sphere at Arete/Enlightenment 6, two more at 7, 8, and 9, and unlock all spheres at Arete/Enlightenment 10.
On the other hand, the Arete/Enlightenment of an Archonite is limited by their Paradigm. To reach Arete/Enlightenment 6 requires Paradigm 5, 7 requires 6, and so on. Reaching the new level increases the Paradigm by up to 1, should it not have a valid level already. Archonites can gain non-Sphere powers based on their Paradigms and magic, but can never reach Ascension while they're an Archonite.
Should an Aeonite lose their bonus Paradigm, they instantly lose all benefits, including additional Paradigms, Arete/Enlightenment beyond 5, and so on. Should an Archonite's Paradigm stat drop, they lose any benefits that they no longer have the prerequisites to. Should either regain this, they instantly regain all benefits that they have lost.
The Traditions and Technocracy have historically given Aeonites 'honored positions' where they have little ability to damage the minds of the rest of the organization, but were willing to call on their awesome powers as they needed them. With the loss of their leadership, both organizations face the insidious threat of their greatest will-workers, compounded by the related threat of Void Adapted/Spiritized masters returning from the Umbra.
Upon reaching Arete/Enlightenment 5, there are two paths forwards, both of which interact with the Paradigm stat. The Path of the Aeon, and the Path of the Archon. Aeonites begin to realize the truth behind the world; that nothing is true and everything is permitted. They gradually free themselves from the constraints of Paradigm, and attempt to find the way to Ascension. In contrast, Archonites place ever more concerned with their Paradigm, gaining more temporal power in exchange for losing the way towards Ascension.
Upon reaching Arete/Enlightenment 6, an Aeonite gains an additional Paradigm consisting of 'Reality is based on consensus. Nothing and everything is true all at once.' This Paradigm has a permanent rating of 1. Aeonites can gain additional paradigms through spending xp, but can only use their additional paradigms with a limited number of Spheres. They choose one Sphere at Arete/Enlightenment 6, two more at 7, 8, and 9, and unlock all spheres at Arete/Enlightenment 10.
On the other hand, the Arete/Enlightenment of an Archonite is limited by their Paradigm. To reach Arete/Enlightenment 6 requires Paradigm 5, 7 requires 6, and so on. Reaching the new level increases the Paradigm by up to 1, should it not have a valid level already. Archonites can gain non-Sphere powers based on their Paradigms and magic, but can never reach Ascension while they're an Archonite.
Should an Aeonite lose their bonus Paradigm, they instantly lose all benefits, including additional Paradigms, Arete/Enlightenment beyond 5, and so on. Should an Archonite's Paradigm stat drop, they lose any benefits that they no longer have the prerequisites to. Should either regain this, they instantly regain all benefits that they have lost.
The Traditions and Technocracy have historically given Aeonites 'honored positions' where they have little ability to damage the minds of the rest of the organization, but were willing to call on their awesome powers as they needed them. With the loss of their leadership, both organizations face the insidious threat of their greatest will-workers, compounded by the related threat of Void Adapted/Spiritized masters returning from the Umbra.
So is there anything preventing someone from having a magical-chauvanist paradigm, or even being an outright Marauder, and simultaneously going down the Aeonite path?
So is there anything preventing someone from having a magical-chauvanist paradigm, or even being an outright Marauder, and simultaneously going down the Aeonite path?
Yeah, but as written it doesn't actually alter your original paradigm, just add an additional one about everything and nothing being true. Which doesn't prevent you from having some stat-five paradigm that says that every other kind of magic or science is dumb garbage, which coexists with your paradigm that there's no difference between them. This is weird, yes. That's why I asked for clarification.
So is there anything preventing someone from having a magical-chauvanist paradigm, or even being an outright Marauder, and simultaneously going down the Aeonite path?
Yeah, but as written it doesn't actually alter your original paradigm, just add an additional one about everything and nothing being true. Which doesn't prevent you from having some stat-five paradigm that says that every other kind of magic or science is dumb garbage, which coexists with your paradigm that there's no difference between them. This is weird, yes. That's why I asked for clarification.
That is super weird. It's also intentional, as you have to be super weird to believe in literally everything. In its own way, Aeonites are just as insane as Archonites. Additionally, you only get a limited number of Spheres that can be freely used with any of your paradigms because your new Paradigm isn't initially all-encompassing. It only becomes all-encompassing when you hit Arete/Enlightenment 10.
Also, having a high Paradigm stat is narratively a detriment to becoming an Aeonite. Doubly so when it's six or above, as your Marauder field will warp evidence that you're wrong.
Alright, I'm updating my early post on Paradigm with some additional thoughts I've had. I'll be putting this in my Paradigm and you post, with the original post in a spoiler, so there's no need to threadmark this.
There are five levels to a fully formed Paradigm, layered like an onion.
The outer layer is the Overall Paradigm, which is a broad worldview. This should generally be capable of being summed up in a statement, such as 'the world is logical and predictable' or 'the world is an illusion.' Note that characters who's paradigms can be summed up into the same statement can still have extremely divergent paradigms, like a Son of Ether and an Iterator, or many Progenitors and an Iterator. Every Overall Paradigm should have a fairly obvious way of preforming magic associated with it.
While there are a lot of different organizations, their Overall Paradigms can be generally broken down into three (four) main types. Remember that often these aren't compatible, or are subtly different.
The Rational Paradigm posits that the world is inherently real and rational. Things don't change, and follow scientific reasoning. This is the primary Paradigm of the Technocratic Union and the Sons of Ether. The Sons of Ether are generally incompatible with the Technocracy, and subgroups within the Technocracy can get weird. Under this Paradigm, magic (science) is preformed by understanding and taking advantage of the laws of physics.
The Illusory Paradigm states that reality is an illusion, and that by gaining enlightenment and understanding you can alter or move past the illusion. This Paradigm is followed by the Cult of Ecstasy, Akashic Brotherhood, some Celestial Chorus members, and some subgroups of the Euthanatos.
The Mystic Paradigm is a broad paradigm in which reality is real, but mystical, and include the Order of Hermes, Verbena, most of the Celestial Chorus, Dreamspeakers, and some Euthanatos subgroups
Finally, the Virtual Adepts are special snowflakes as usual, believing that reality is a computer simulation. The specifics of this Paradigm can put it closer to any of the other Paradigms, or as its own thing.
The next layer is the Organizational Practice, which is roughly equivalent to a Technocratic Convention. It is not necessarily equivalent to a Tradition, as those can have more internal variation based on the individual Tradition. This is the overall way you do magic, much like Paradigm is your overall view of the world. For instance, 'genetically modifying yourself' would be too specific for this level, but 'advanced biology' would not be. Note that even members of a Technocratic Convention can have radically different Organizational Practices, let alone Traditionalists.
Beneath that is your Personal Practice, which is how you, specifically, do magic. This should be specific enough that it's unlikely that another mage will have the same Personal Practice as you, even if they have the same Organizational Practice. For instance, a character with the Organizational Practice of Advanced Biology could genetically modify themselves into a super-soldier, genetically modify animals, surgically heal humans, or chemically alter human brains. However, they can't do all of these. Your Personal Practice should set limits on your magic.
Next, Foci are the specific things you use to do magic. A plasma canon or a wand of fireball or dragon's blood, whatever. These need to fit all the other levels of your Paradigm. A Technocrat can't use a magic wand, for instance.
There are two broad types of Foci. External Foci exist outside of you, Internal Foci are inside of you, or are otherwise intrinsic.
External Foci include People, Places, Things, and Laws. Things are the most obvious, in that they're items that have been designed to allow the Mage to work magic through them. A staff used to call fireballs or a plasma canon are examples of this. Generally random objects should not be allowed to be used as this kind of Foci. People are animate objects, including animals and people, that can be used for magic. For instance, a highly trained group of commandos or spirit of war. A place is a place designed to work magic, like a church or a laboratory. Laws are the laws of the universe, like karma or heat conduction, and are generally used subconsciously or in combination with other Foci.
Internal Foci include Skills, Inherent, Alterations, and Actions. Skills generally state that you can do magic because you're good at something due to training or talent. Inherent is a thing you are, not a thing you learned or can do. A reincarnated ancient hero or enlightened monk or whatever can do magic stuff, but someone else can't just learn how to do whatever they do. Actions are also Foci. This can be a magic ritual or programming a computer, but you actually have to do stuff in order to make it work. Finally, Alterations are things that have been done to your character to change them, generally by another Mage. Cybernetic arms and enchantments fall under this category.
Finally, your Spheres determine what specifically you can do with magic. Someone with the Personal Practice of 'genetically modify animals,' could make an animal that teleports, and animal that breathes fire, an animal that time travels, or whatever they want. However, which of these they can do is determined by their Spheres. Spheres can be modified based on Paradigm, but this should attempt to be balanced and must be run by the ST before use.
As a finishing touch, all Paradigms should have some explanations. An explanation to Sphere levels, Paradox, other types of Mage, and difficult effects should be included.
When creating a character, it's best to start with one of the Practice steps, as the other steps offer enough choices to paralyze if you don't have an idea where you want to go already. However, this is only a suggestion, and can be safely ignored.
A note on the Purple Paradigm: Don't use it, and if you do, make it as any other paradigm.
The Mystic Paradigm is a broad paradigm in which reality is real, but mystical, and include the Order of Hermes, Verbena, most of the Celestial Chorus, Dreamspeakers, and some Euthanatos subgroups
The Hermetics are Rational Paradigm as fuck, though. "The universe is governed by base laws, and everything is an emergent property of these laws" is valid for both Crats and Hermetics. It's just that one of them believes Coulomb's Law is a base rule of the universe and the other believes in the Law of Sympathy.
The Hermetics are Rational Paradigm as fuck, though. "The universe is governed by base laws, and everything is an emergent property of these laws" is valid for both Crats and Hermetics. It's just that one of them believes Coulomb's Law is a base rule of the universe and the other believes in the Law of Sympathy.
This is a good point. I classified Hermetics with the Mystics primarily because of aesthetics. Much like the other mystic traditions, (parts of them) could have easily been part of the Order of Reason, but politics and some aspects of their belief systems prevented this. The Cosian Circle and the Verbenae were quite similar except for the Verbenae's paganism, similar to the Celestial Chorus and the Cabal of Pure Thought.
On a larger scale, most Mystic Paradigms could be classified as Rational Paradigms, or perhaps Rational Paradigms could be classified as Mystic Paradigms.* However, this is counter-intuitive for new players, so I'm keeping them separated.
*A Verbena convincing a god to intercede on their behalf is a rational, understandable process, as is a Choruster praying to the One or whatever. It's not fundamentally re-ordering reality like declaring that it's all an illusion, it just gives a bunch of different laws and explanations.
The Virtual Adepts are, as usual, special snowflakes. While they like to say that reality is a computer simulation, what that actually means in practice varies greatly within their Tradition. All Adept Paradigms rely heavily on the concept of personal excellence. Adepts can do magic because they're just that good, due to a combination of knowledge and just being that awesome. People who are better should be given respect, but even total noobs should be given the knowledge they need to be able to improve themselves.
The first, most divergent, and most Technocratic-okay are the Mathletes. These are the guys with the most direct line of decent, paradigm-wise, from the original Difference Engineers. Most who use this paradigm could convert to the Technocracy with no issues from Paradigm. Essentially, this Paradigm is that math is important, and by studying it you can do great things. This paradigm can be used to hack computers a semi-normal way, measure probability, or otherwise use applied mathematics. Many adherents of other Adept paradigms know tricks from this one, particularly in the field of computer programming, as it's the paradigm that fathered the rest.
Mathletes believe that math is the purest form of knowledge, the deepest way to understand the world. They might be able to perform Entropy or Time effects by doing calculations with a paper and pencil, or use deep understanding of the human mind to be supernaturally persuasive. This skill with math makes them incredibly good with computers and hacking. However, they lack in the way of native Vulgar effects, and need to use other Technocratic methods for many of them.
The rest are variants on reality being a computer simulation. The original formulation of this Paradigm was as a metaphor instead of fact, rather than the more literal versions that later Adepts have taken to. Followers of this form of it are called QAs. By studying hard, it's possible to discover 'exploits' in reality, as if it were a Bethesda game. Through extended effort in manipulating these 'bugs' Adepts have managed to build a machine within reality, and can manipulate it that way.
Historically, the QAs have relied on infrastructure to do magic to a similar extent to the Technocracy. While they can unreliably preform minor magical effects without it, a connection to the machine made by their methodolgy is necessary for major effects. However, the Technocracy (and if relevant, the Avatar Storm) have damaged this machine, preventing Adepts from being able to reach incredible cosmic power easily. Vulgar effects further damage the machine, and can degrade reality itself in the local environment.
The Machine itself is commonly called the Virtual Device, and is similar conceptually to building a calculator or other sort of machine in Minecraft, only it relies on manipulations of glitches to work.
The next paradigms within the Adepts are the literalist interpretations, which state that reality is a computer simulation in a non-metaphorical sense. The first of these is very similar to the QAs, the Hackers. They believe that reality is a computer simulation, and that they can hack it to change it. They are generally similar to the QAs, but have different ideologies behind their methods.
Hackers rely on techniques similar to those that more normal hackers use to hack programs they're using. This is an inherently unstable way of doing things, as being 'noticed' hacking reality by the 'administrators' or 'anti-virus' will result in backlashes, and can easily destroy a great deal of work hacking reality. This paradigm is a constant arms race between 'security' and the Hackers.
Finally, the weirdest of the bunch, the Mercurials. They believe that reality is a simulation, and that by altering things in the simulation they can alter the source code and thus alter reality, in a sort of 'as above so below' type thing. They are also the most likely to have cross-traditional experience, particularly with the various Traditions that believe reality is an illusion.
Perhaps the most popular example of this paradigm is Neo from the Matrix series. By becoming enlightened to the true nature of reality, he is able to ignore the laws of physics, do kung fu, and things along those lines.
There also exist the End Users, those who protect and advance the interests of the Adepts and the Traditions, without necessarily caring about the deeper aspects of reality. They generally include a greater focus on personal excellence within their paradigm, and can use one of the broader Adept Paradigms in addition to that. They are also likely to have Enhancements given to them by other Adepts. Adept Enhancements can include normal Technocratic things, like cybernetic arms or nanobots in the blood, but they can also include weirder things like providing a HUD provided by reality itself, or giving a person a personal aimbot program. This is less a Paradigm of its own than a subset within each other Paradigm of the Adepts.
Note that the Virtual Adepts have other Paradigms in their Tradition, but most are minor enough to not warrant inclusion.
A final necessary note is on the Virtual Web. While all four of the primary Paradigms of the Adepts use the Web heavily, the actual explanations for what it is vary greatly. Mathletes believe that it's a sort of alternate dimension, probably naturally occuring, where the laws of physics are different. QAs believe that it was created by Turing using the Virtual Device, and is in fact part of the Operating System of the Device. Hackers believe that it's a layer of reality closer to the Source Code of the computer running the world. And many Mercurials believe that it's the area of reality surrounding the Correspondence Point, where everything is one, though other theories exist among the Mercurials.
Added. Hey @MJ12 Commando, you now have a lot of homebrew in this thread under 'MJ Homebrew', but no natural 'head' post for it. Right now it's all under MJ12 Homebrew: Enhancement Rewrite, which is a little misleading as you have all kinds of homebrew. Don't know if you want a 'head' post or something.
So I was told to port this here from OWoD general:
I'm kind of debating restarting a quest thing I did for a bit on akun here. I'm kind of hoping for a little help figuring out a couple of foibles to running Technocrats.
1. Echoes. The PC has Echoes, and I'm a little shaky on exactly how much of an effect echoes can have on the environment. Is it intended to be mostly cosmetic, with only people who really get what Echoes are reacting? And how aware is a character of their own Echoes?
2. Avatar flavors. I feel a little like Questing overlaps with other Avatar types, and planning out a major NPC kind of means I need to nail down an Avatar type to decide how the base of the character is flavored. I want to try and not state openly people's Avatar alignment, but show it through how they do things, so I need to have this planned out, and am just a little confused how Questing fits in.
So I was told to port this here from OWoD general:
I'm kind of debating restarting a quest thing I did for a bit on akun here. I'm kind of hoping for a little help figuring out a couple of foibles to running Technocrats.
Both of these are in large part issues due to poor writing on the part of White Wolf, and should be hit with a hammer until they stop looking like themselves.
1. Echoes. The PC has Echoes, and I'm a little shaky on exactly how much of an effect echoes can have on the environment. Is it intended to be mostly cosmetic, with only people who really get what Echoes are reacting? And how aware is a character of their own Echoes?
The effect Echoes has on the environment depends on the level of Echoes and the Mage themselves. Awareness of Echoes depends on the specific Mage and Echoes as well.
2. Avatar flavors. I feel a little like Questing overlaps with other Avatar types, and planning out a major NPC kind of means I need to nail down an Avatar type to decide how the base of the character is flavored. I want to try and not state openly people's Avatar alignment, but show it through how they do things, so I need to have this planned out, and am just a little confused how Questing fits in.
Questing is probably the least useful of the Avatar Essences, as it doesn't actually give any useful information in the way that the other three do. A better way to do it might be to make it a qualifier to the other three Essences. A Questing Dynamic nature seeks to ascend the world by making it change, while a pure Dynamic nature is pure undirected change.
The effect Echoes has on the environment depends on the level of Echoes and the Mage themselves. Awareness of Echoes depends on the specific Mage and Echoes as well.
Level 3, most likely. I mostly want things that are only obvious if you know what they are, because I kind of want the character with the Echoes to...not notice, and slowly creep out anyone who slowly notices how totally-not-a-coincidence the weird phenomena are.
Questing is probably the least useful of the Avatar Essences, as it doesn't actually give any useful information in the way that the other three do. A better way to do it might be to make it a qualifier to the other three Essences. A Questing Dynamic nature seeks to ascend the world by making it change, while a pure Dynamic nature is pure undirected change.
So some thoughts on old Technocratic equipment and the Technocracy's inconvenient history:
The weird steampunk stuff of the Order of Reason feel appropriate for their time, but they feel kind of odd in the context of the modern Technocracy, especially given that this is Mage, where the past is pretty mutable (c.f. how the prior ages were erased for a much more mundane history of dinosaurs) and the Technocracy could very easily just quietly shift/erase its old history to something more currently acceptable. It gets doubly interesting if it's implied that the Technocracy just kind of does this every so often, shifting itself from a bunch of Good Wizards and Knights fighting Bad Wizards and Knights to practitioners of Reason who are opposed to witchcraft and superstition to steampunk Industrialists bringing Reason to the world via force of arms to people striving for some sort of technological ascension for humanity to leave old biases and ideas behind.
So my thought is that currently, the Technocracy has reinvented itself as a sort of Da'at Yichud (Wolfenstein) meets the Circle (Age of Scorpio) organization that's been working through and protecting humanity from alien entities, often using technologies stolen from them which it has reverse-engineered and improved upon. Old Technocratic equipment has taken on that aesthetic as the Union paradigm shifted, slowly being changed by collective internal belief so that the Union's ancient warriors had nanotech in their blood and bones rather than the blessings of faith and clockwork prosthetics, its ancient power armors were the flayed skins of alien cyborgs with Syndicate patents slapped on them, hastily modified to interface with human minds and basic human technology, its old constructs and structures now made of stone infused with ancient programmed nanotech its users didn't fully understand but could manipulate.
A modern Technocrat who finds an old set of Titan Armor will examine it and understand it to be full of active nanotech, not as sophisticated or well-designed as what exists now, but certainly recognizable. The sword is probably a primitive vibrosword with limited smart-balancing weights in the hilt, and the gun is, well, probably a sophisticated self-loading revolver that is entirely recognizable as a predecessor to modern firearms. Even though way back in the past, the armor and sword were forged via mystic ritual to be superior, using techniques nearly identical to the Hermetics. That's what the Combat Bionano Transfusion in the threadmarks implies-the Technocracy has kept a lot of its old tools, it just has changed the paradigm under which it's expressed.
Of course, the point is that back in the day, none of it probably looked like this, in a sort of planned obsolescence. The Technocracy absolutely does erase its own past, change the stories of its heroes. And in that way, lessons which should have been learned are forgotten.
So some thoughts on old Technocratic equipment and the Technocracy's inconvenient history:
The weird steampunk stuff of the Order of Reason feel appropriate for their time, but they feel kind of odd in the context of the modern Technocracy, especially given that this is Mage, where the past is pretty mutable (c.f. how the prior ages were erased for a much more mundane history of dinosaurs) and the Technocracy could very easily just quietly shift/erase its old history to something more currently acceptable. It gets doubly interesting if it's implied that the Technocracy just kind of does this every so often, shifting itself from a bunch of Good Wizards and Knights fighting Bad Wizards and Knights to practitioners of Reason who are opposed to witchcraft and superstition to steampunk Industrialists bringing Reason to the world via force of arms to people striving for some sort of technological ascension for humanity to leave old biases and ideas behind.
So my thought is that currently, the Technocracy has reinvented itself as a sort of Da'at Yichud (Wolfenstein) meets the Circle (Age of Scorpio) organization that's been working through and protecting humanity from alien entities, often using technologies stolen from them which it has reverse-engineered and improved upon. Old Technocratic equipment has taken on that aesthetic as the Union paradigm shifted, slowly being changed by collective internal belief so that the Union's ancient warriors had nanotech in their blood and bones rather than the blessings of faith and clockwork prosthetics, its ancient power armors were the flayed skins of alien cyborgs with Syndicate patents slapped on them, hastily modified to interface with human minds and basic human technology, its old constructs and structures now made of stone infused with ancient programmed nanotech its users didn't fully understand but could manipulate.
A modern Technocrat who finds an old set of Titan Armor will examine it and understand it to be full of active nanotech, not as sophisticated or well-designed as what exists now, but certainly recognizable. The sword is probably a primitive vibrosword with limited smart-balancing weights in the hilt, and the gun is, well, probably a sophisticated self-loading revolver that is entirely recognizable as a predecessor to modern firearms. Even though way back in the past, the armor and sword were forged via mystic ritual to be superior, using techniques nearly identical to the Hermetics. That's what the Combat Bionano Transfusion in the threadmarks implies-the Technocracy has kept a lot of its old tools, it just has changed the paradigm under which it's expressed.
Of course, the point is that back in the day, none of it probably looked like this, in a sort of planned obsolescence. The Technocracy absolutely does erase its own past, change the stories of its heroes. And in that way, lessons which should have been learned are forgotten.
So some thoughts on old Technocratic equipment and the Technocracy's inconvenient history:
The weird steampunk stuff of the Order of Reason feel appropriate for their time, but they feel kind of odd in the context of the modern Technocracy, especially given that this is Mage, where the past is pretty mutable (c.f. how the prior ages were erased for a much more mundane history of dinosaurs) and the Technocracy could very easily just quietly shift/erase its old history to something more currently acceptable. It gets doubly interesting if it's implied that the Technocracy just kind of does this every so often, shifting itself from a bunch of Good Wizards and Knights fighting Bad Wizards and Knights to practitioners of Reason who are opposed to witchcraft and superstition to steampunk Industrialists bringing Reason to the world via force of arms to people striving for some sort of technological ascension for humanity to leave old biases and ideas behind.
So my thought is that currently, the Technocracy has reinvented itself as a sort of Da'at Yichud (Wolfenstein) meets the Circle (Age of Scorpio) organization that's been working through and protecting humanity from alien entities, often using technologies stolen from them which it has reverse-engineered and improved upon. Old Technocratic equipment has taken on that aesthetic as the Union paradigm shifted, slowly being changed by collective internal belief so that the Union's ancient warriors had nanotech in their blood and bones rather than the blessings of faith and clockwork prosthetics, its ancient power armors were the flayed skins of alien cyborgs with Syndicate patents slapped on them, hastily modified to interface with human minds and basic human technology, its old constructs and structures now made of stone infused with ancient programmed nanotech its users didn't fully understand but could manipulate.
A modern Technocrat who finds an old set of Titan Armor will examine it and understand it to be full of active nanotech, not as sophisticated or well-designed as what exists now, but certainly recognizable. The sword is probably a primitive vibrosword with limited smart-balancing weights in the hilt, and the gun is, well, probably a sophisticated self-loading revolver that is entirely recognizable as a predecessor to modern firearms. Even though way back in the past, the armor and sword were forged via mystic ritual to be superior, using techniques nearly identical to the Hermetics. That's what the Combat Bionano Transfusion in the threadmarks implies-the Technocracy has kept a lot of its old tools, it just has changed the paradigm under which it's expressed.
Of course, the point is that back in the day, none of it probably looked like this, in a sort of planned obsolescence. The Technocracy absolutely does erase its own past, change the stories of its heroes. And in that way, lessons which should have been learned are forgotten.
I can understand how this works from a Technocratic viewpoint, but how does this look from a Traditions viewpoint? (I'm not arguing against it because its a cool mechanic, just curious.).
In some ways it makes things easier for Technocrat players because if they find an old storehouse the stuff there should be able to be fully integrate to their modern stuff. (Picture the Matrix, NWO agent Neo quickly calls up Tank and tells him that the found a bunch of old weapons, model S-4-422-A. Tank just tells him what firmware will let his smart-link interface with the old stuff and away he goes.)
But what about the other side of the coin? A group of Traditions mages bust into a old storehouse. Now the old weapons and armour is all crude nano-tech and primium instead of clockwork cyborgs or divinely blessed steal. Or is it both crude nanotech AND divine blessed steal or something?
But what about the other side of the coin? A group of Traditions mages bust into a old storehouse. Now the old weapons and armour is all crude nano-tech and primium instead of clockwork cyborgs or divinely blessed steal. Or is it both crude nanotech AND divine blessed steal or something?
Oh I don't object to it, I was just wondering how a traditionalist would interact with it. As you said, its a pretty cool idea and plays up with the 'history is literally changing due to the ascension war'.
Man, I love this too. It's pretty great. It's also fitting with the Technocrats as insane totalitarians, and in a world where everything is belief, they are literally destroying history to remake it in their own image. This can also be used for making some pretty cutting commentary on Western colonial history that I think is extremely relevant, especially in this time, so I'm all for it.
Man, I love this too. It's pretty great. It's also fitting with the Technocrats as insane totalitarians, and in a world where everything is belief, they are literally destroying history to remake it in their own image. This can also be used for making some pretty cutting commentary on Western colonial history that I think is extremely relevant, especially in this time, so I'm all for it.
Like the common perception that Europeans pushed out the Native Americans with superior technology.
(actually it was mostly smallpox and other diseases. The natives in at least one case had forest agronomy tech we *still* haven't quite figured out in the modern day, and rapidly adopted useful European technologies in any case.)
Like the common perception that Europeans pushed out the Native Americans with superior technology.
(actually it was mostly smallpox and other diseases. The natives in at least one case had forest agronomy tech we *still* haven't quite figured out in the modern day, and rapidly adopted useful European technologies in any case.)
Wait, so who's spreading what in this case? Are the crats hiding the Conquistadorotron 1500s or are the Verbenae revealing that the true strength lay in the natural world or what?
