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You'd presumably have to say they got weakened in the intervening years.
Or just, you know, forget the whole "without the avatar thing threat null will eat us" thing and remember that the Consensus stops shit like that?
Mage the Ascension Discussion, Homebrew, Worldbuilding, and Game finding.
- Thread starter TheLastOne
- Start date
You'd presumably have to say they got weakened in the intervening years.
Or just, you know, forget the whole "without the avatar thing threat null will eat us" thing and remember that the Consensus stops shit like that?
Eh; that basically neuters the idea of Threat Null being a thing in the first place though; which I'm in two minds about; since for a technocracy game Threat Null is a cool as a concept and antagonist; but it sucks ass for Traditions games since suffers from the same problem the Reclamation and the Thousand Dooms in Exalted; it sucks all the narrative space to it and everything that isn't about it is irrelevant because of the consequences of said thing will bring.
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I think it's kind of unnecessary if you're doing it this way, because like, your "threat null" is "the conservative/plutocratic parts of the technocracy." You don't need more monsters in the dark, though you could always have them as some kind of more distant threat that lurks at the edge of space somwhere. Though I tend to just use aliens for that.
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Note, just to double post days later, that them being super evil is not what I want necessarily. What I do want is mage to have allegorical power which it sorta doesn't anymore because the current backstory is so of its time. Like there's no reason why "Keep the world as it is at any cost" can't be sympathetic, or that changing the world has to be. For instance I'm sure that those who want change and those who want stasis would still be willing to fight against the Nephandi and Trumpists.
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fucking Virtual Adapt defectors.
I'm not saying 1E in the sense that it's EVIL, although there's a bit of that. I'm saying 1E in the sense that the Technocracy shifted from mostly an organization that existed for its own self-benefit and nothing else in 1E and its ideological-utopian 2E and Revised version. Utopian in the sense that they have an actual goal they want to achieve that they legitimately are self-sacrificing for and believe will bring everyone great benefits versus acting in selfish self-benefit or keeping everything the same forever, not in the sense that they're not being menacing in that goal. If you want things to be about a fight against the Global 1%, you probably need to remove most of the Utopians from the equation.
Tbh in this scenario I'd actually say that the Virtual Adepts didn't defect, and the Daedaleans are the VA-equivalent. In fact, you could have the Celestial Chorus replaced as well because the Plutocracy has made strange bedfellows with organized religion and is using it as a source of control and a way to suppress discontent at peoples' worsening material circumstances, put the Batini back. The Plutocratic VAs would be... Google/Amazon/Apple/etc. "Transformative" technology which serves largely to further enshrine the consumerist paradigm, plus a good old fashioned dose of cynical pandering. Also I think it's a more interesting aesthetic when the guys most capable of directly taking the fight to the secret masters of the world aren't anarcho-libertarian cyberpunks, but rather shaky allies that might turn on you and have sympathies regarding 'becoming secret masters of the world of their own.'
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You'd still have the Celestial Chorus, because there's totally bits of religion that oppose the Plutocracy. It'd just be fighting for its soul in the same way the technocracy is.
I'd say you'd have religious mages, but not the Chorus. They'd be scattered throughout the Traditions in various ways. This also neatly takes care of the problem that the Chorus is really weird because it's actually a super-heretical syncretic cult because it tries to be All Religious Mages.
Chloe Sullivan
Subdefective
- Location
- 1630 Revello Drive, Sunnydale CA
Yeah, I always found that part like super condescending.
There are non-religious people who can write religion human-ly, rather than coming off as Crystal Space Jesusites from Dimension X. Sadly, none of them worked for WW, AFAICT.
Graypairofsocks
What is Grammar?
- Location
- earth
Random thought:
All a mage needs to win a lot of money at a casino is "Matter 1" (and intelligence, but that's assumed).
All a mage needs to win a lot of money at a casino is "Matter 1" (and intelligence, but that's assumed).
vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
In general, getting money for nothing is the easy part for mages. (Also, expect casinos to bar you soon, so you'll need some traits that can deal with that eventually, be it Arcane, Mind or whatever.)
Graypairofsocks
What is Grammar?
- Location
- earth
Well, you don't necessarily have to play against the house while you are at the casino. There are also games like poker, or james bond style baccarat.
Though there's aspects of the Chorus I like, they do come off as either "here's magick clerics" or become so convoluted that you wonder why they haven't broken apart or absorbed several other Traditions. Plus like you both have said it makes it feel like if you're playing a religious mage that isn't an animist, neo-pagan, or a Buddhist that you have to be a Choruster.
Kind of like any of the Traditions, I can come up with justifications for why they could still exist, but they need a different history and modern feel IMO to work.
*waves the flag of the Pantechnicon Ministry*
Yeah but then you'll have Syndicate enforcers knocking on your door.
Anyways in that hypothetical Plutocracy-versus-Everyone Else scenario I'd actually make the Traditions much more ad-hoc, with all the Disparate groups/etc. jockeying for position. The "True Order of Hermes" (as opposed to the guys who sold out and are enjoying being plutocrats as long as they don't rock the boat) and Euthanatos are probably the two most organized groups, as per canon, but because the OoH is smaller and the Euthanatos are really fucking scary there's a lot more politicking and competition.
Instead of 9 Traditions, one for each sphere, I'd have 9 seats, one for each sphere, which get representatives from a group in them. This allows for the really tense bit where, for example, the Daedaleans/Avalonians/whatever you call the ex-utopian Technocrats have taken the Seat of Prime and Seat of Matter (I'd keep the Batini in the Seat of Correspondence) and/or are arguing for some tenth seat (the Seat of Dimensional Science) along with the Hollow Ones (the Seat of Death) which leads to the hilarity that you can have a cyborg in a professional suit and a waif dressed up in Gothic Lolita style technically supporting each other ("we can decide what the tenth seat actually is later
").That would create a perfect storm of internal tensions that the PCs could get involved in.
MJ12 Homebrew: Wired Reflexes and Cognitive Clockspeed Enhancement
Heeey @FBH here's something for your VA cyberpunks~
And something from PQ if people want to introduce the CLARENTs or the ZERUEL into their mage game (which should suggest to you just how ludicrously expensive Jane and Ling Clarent are)
Wired Reflexes (6 pt Enhancement, Arete 4, Quintessence 20)
Speed is life. He who acts first has a significant advantage over the enemy in any violent encounter. He who acts more often has even more of an advantage over the enemy. Being fast, getting the first shot off, can often mean the difference between life and death.
Virtual Adept Cyberpunks, more transhumanist Etherites, and Syndicate Enforcers implant a system of this nature into themselves, replacing their spinal cord and much of their nervous system with flexible superconducting fibers, installing motion enhancers and kinesthetic subprocessors into every major limb. Upon command, the synthetic nervous system fully activates while implants in the adrenal glands inject a supercharged adrenaline-substitute into the mage's body, supercharging their every movement and thought. Time seems to slow down, and the user can chain actions fluidly, firing shot after perfectly aimed shot, weaving through a flurry of blows, or literally dodging bullets by watching the tensing of a shooter's trigger finger.
A Time 3/Mind 1 effect allows a character to spend 1 Quintessence from the Enhancement to gain +1 Initiative and take an extra action in a turn, up to (lower of Dexterity or Wits) actions. Additionally, while Wired Reflexes are active, the character thinks more quickly, giving them an additional free mental action per turn. The character may not take additional movement actions, as although their muscles and nerves are placed into overdrive, Wired Reflexes does not actually make a character "faster." However, the character may sprint at full speed while still taking an action on their turn. Wired Reflexes are on the edge of being Coincidental, although excessive use (taking more than 2 additional actions) becomes Vulgar.
However, Wired Reflexes take a significant amount out of the user. Use them too often, and die. A character may only use Wired Reflexes "safely" for (Stamina) turns a day. After that point, organ failure and internal damage starts to accumulate, dealing a cumulative 1 die of lethal damage per additional use in a day. Wired Reflexes are intended for short-duration, high-intensity operations, not prolonged firefights.
Safer versions of the Wired Reflexes augmentation exist, but such reaction enhancement cyberware is generally found only in heavily augmented cyberpunks or Iterators, both of whom are willing to shell out a premium to preserve their highly expensive bodies. These safe versions may be used an unlimited number of times, Quintessence permitting, and cost 8 points. A biotech version of Wired Reflexes exists, "Hyperadrenaline Shunts," which are implanted by the Progenitors into high-value shock troops and enhanced Damage Control Operatives.
Cognitive Clockspeed Enhancement (15 pt Enhancement)
Human cognition is slow and inefficient. Iteration X considers this regrettable and seeks to exceed these limits. This augmentation requires the character to have an implanted ADEI or an equivalent, as it requires a perfect machine-human merger. Additional nanocomputing systems are implanted into the Technocrat's skull, creating an even closer interface between the biological brain and the cybernetic components. Many parts of the brain are outright replaced by solid-state computing systems, particularly the motor centers and visual processing centers, while the ADEI's holographic memory is expanded and used as the cyborg's working memory. The net result is a cyborg who now can think several times faster than a human via a powerful, permanent Time 3/Mind 3 effect.
Upon implantation, the character must roll their permanent Willpower at Difficulty 8, although most of the time there will be a hyperpsych specialist standing by to lower the difficulty of the roll by mental conditioning and monitoring. They gain (5 - successes) points of Mental Flaws, while if they fail the roll, they go insane from their altered time perception and must have their psyche reconstructed. Psyche reconstruction requires at least 10 successes on a Mind 4 Procedure, plus 2 success per point of Permanent Willpower the character possessed. Magi who undergo Cognitive Clockspeed Augmentation tend to have short attention spans and be impatient with baseline humans, as they think several times faster than normal humans and what might seem to be a quick pause for a baseline is considered a boring eternity for a posthuman. Furthermore, because of this permanent inhuman trait, the character immediately gains 1 permanent Paradox.
However, these drastic costs come with commensurate benefits. After implantation, the character thinks and reacts faster than a human at all times. The character may take an additional action every combat turn (increasing to 2 additional actions at Enlightenment 3 and 3 extra actions at Enlightenment 5), and adds (Enlightenment + 1) to their Initiative. For mental actions taken in dramatic time, the character divides the time necessary to make a roll using a Mental Attribute by (Enlightenment + 1). These improvements are not cumulative with Time or Mind magic which allows the use of additional actions, and are not cumulative with additional reaction enhancement, save increases to a character's Wits attribute. Although these effects may be minor compared to a Disciple of Time using Dilate Time to the fullest, they are always active and cost nothing to maintain, giving a cyborg with this augmentation excellent endurance compared to short-duration boosterware.
This radical augmentation is most common (although still very rare) in Iteration X, and is almost always only seen combined with additional heavy augmentation, whether dedicated to combat or cognitive planning (or in the case of old Iterators, sometimes both). The Sons of Ether and Virtual Adepts have a handful of mages who are willing to do the procedure, but will only do so at great cost and are often questionable sane themselves due to their exhuman self-augmentation. There is no biotech equivalent in the Progenitors-although Progenitors are also experts in cognition enhancement, they tend to trend towards short-term bursts of improved mental clockspeed combined with thinking 'better,' rather than drastic, dehumanizing modifications such as this.
And something from PQ if people want to introduce the CLARENTs or the ZERUEL into their mage game (which should suggest to you just how ludicrously expensive Jane and Ling Clarent are)
Wired Reflexes (6 pt Enhancement, Arete 4, Quintessence 20)
Speed is life. He who acts first has a significant advantage over the enemy in any violent encounter. He who acts more often has even more of an advantage over the enemy. Being fast, getting the first shot off, can often mean the difference between life and death.
Virtual Adept Cyberpunks, more transhumanist Etherites, and Syndicate Enforcers implant a system of this nature into themselves, replacing their spinal cord and much of their nervous system with flexible superconducting fibers, installing motion enhancers and kinesthetic subprocessors into every major limb. Upon command, the synthetic nervous system fully activates while implants in the adrenal glands inject a supercharged adrenaline-substitute into the mage's body, supercharging their every movement and thought. Time seems to slow down, and the user can chain actions fluidly, firing shot after perfectly aimed shot, weaving through a flurry of blows, or literally dodging bullets by watching the tensing of a shooter's trigger finger.
A Time 3/Mind 1 effect allows a character to spend 1 Quintessence from the Enhancement to gain +1 Initiative and take an extra action in a turn, up to (lower of Dexterity or Wits) actions. Additionally, while Wired Reflexes are active, the character thinks more quickly, giving them an additional free mental action per turn. The character may not take additional movement actions, as although their muscles and nerves are placed into overdrive, Wired Reflexes does not actually make a character "faster." However, the character may sprint at full speed while still taking an action on their turn. Wired Reflexes are on the edge of being Coincidental, although excessive use (taking more than 2 additional actions) becomes Vulgar.
However, Wired Reflexes take a significant amount out of the user. Use them too often, and die. A character may only use Wired Reflexes "safely" for (Stamina) turns a day. After that point, organ failure and internal damage starts to accumulate, dealing a cumulative 1 die of lethal damage per additional use in a day. Wired Reflexes are intended for short-duration, high-intensity operations, not prolonged firefights.
Safer versions of the Wired Reflexes augmentation exist, but such reaction enhancement cyberware is generally found only in heavily augmented cyberpunks or Iterators, both of whom are willing to shell out a premium to preserve their highly expensive bodies. These safe versions may be used an unlimited number of times, Quintessence permitting, and cost 8 points. A biotech version of Wired Reflexes exists, "Hyperadrenaline Shunts," which are implanted by the Progenitors into high-value shock troops and enhanced Damage Control Operatives.
Cognitive Clockspeed Enhancement (15 pt Enhancement)
Human cognition is slow and inefficient. Iteration X considers this regrettable and seeks to exceed these limits. This augmentation requires the character to have an implanted ADEI or an equivalent, as it requires a perfect machine-human merger. Additional nanocomputing systems are implanted into the Technocrat's skull, creating an even closer interface between the biological brain and the cybernetic components. Many parts of the brain are outright replaced by solid-state computing systems, particularly the motor centers and visual processing centers, while the ADEI's holographic memory is expanded and used as the cyborg's working memory. The net result is a cyborg who now can think several times faster than a human via a powerful, permanent Time 3/Mind 3 effect.
Upon implantation, the character must roll their permanent Willpower at Difficulty 8, although most of the time there will be a hyperpsych specialist standing by to lower the difficulty of the roll by mental conditioning and monitoring. They gain (5 - successes) points of Mental Flaws, while if they fail the roll, they go insane from their altered time perception and must have their psyche reconstructed. Psyche reconstruction requires at least 10 successes on a Mind 4 Procedure, plus 2 success per point of Permanent Willpower the character possessed. Magi who undergo Cognitive Clockspeed Augmentation tend to have short attention spans and be impatient with baseline humans, as they think several times faster than normal humans and what might seem to be a quick pause for a baseline is considered a boring eternity for a posthuman. Furthermore, because of this permanent inhuman trait, the character immediately gains 1 permanent Paradox.
However, these drastic costs come with commensurate benefits. After implantation, the character thinks and reacts faster than a human at all times. The character may take an additional action every combat turn (increasing to 2 additional actions at Enlightenment 3 and 3 extra actions at Enlightenment 5), and adds (Enlightenment + 1) to their Initiative. For mental actions taken in dramatic time, the character divides the time necessary to make a roll using a Mental Attribute by (Enlightenment + 1). These improvements are not cumulative with Time or Mind magic which allows the use of additional actions, and are not cumulative with additional reaction enhancement, save increases to a character's Wits attribute. Although these effects may be minor compared to a Disciple of Time using Dilate Time to the fullest, they are always active and cost nothing to maintain, giving a cyborg with this augmentation excellent endurance compared to short-duration boosterware.
This radical augmentation is most common (although still very rare) in Iteration X, and is almost always only seen combined with additional heavy augmentation, whether dedicated to combat or cognitive planning (or in the case of old Iterators, sometimes both). The Sons of Ether and Virtual Adepts have a handful of mages who are willing to do the procedure, but will only do so at great cost and are often questionable sane themselves due to their exhuman self-augmentation. There is no biotech equivalent in the Progenitors-although Progenitors are also experts in cognition enhancement, they tend to trend towards short-term bursts of improved mental clockspeed combined with thinking 'better,' rather than drastic, dehumanizing modifications such as this.
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- Location
- US
- Pronouns
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I think the problem with the Chorus comes from the decision that out of universe, the traditions each represent a very broad occult style, whereas in universe they are political and social organizations. This means that every mage whose practice centers on theistic mystical disciplines belongs to the same group, no matter how different their personal politics or religious beliefs are from one another. It really keeps the traditions from having any beliefs beyond their style. The idea that the Dream Speakers or the Verbena might have any positions other than "our magick is cool" is impossible, because then you'd have some blood witches or death cultists or shaman or whatever that fit in better with the Chorus or Hermetics or whatever than their native faction politically.
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Money is easy enough to get that I am right now litterally playing a character who is cursed with resource 5.
(This did cost me points)
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Anyways in that hypothetical Plutocracy-versus-Everyone Else scenario I'd actually make the Traditions much more ad-hoc, with all the Disparate groups/etc. jockeying for position. The "True Order of Hermes" (as opposed to the guys who sold out and are enjoying being plutocrats as long as they don't rock the boat) and Euthanatos are probably the two most organized groups, as per canon, but because the OoH is smaller and the Euthanatos are really fucking scary there's a lot more politicking and competition.
Instead of 9 Traditions, one for each sphere, I'd have 9 seats, one for each sphere, which get representatives from a group in them. This allows for the really tense bit where, for example, the Daedaleans/Avalonians/whatever you call the ex-utopian Technocrats have taken the Seat of Prime and Seat of Matter (I'd keep the Batini in the Seat of Correspondence) and/or are arguing for some tenth seat (the Seat of Dimensional Science) along with the Hollow Ones (the Seat of Death) which leads to the hilarity that you can have a cyborg in a professional suit and a waif dressed up in Gothic Lolita style technically supporting each other ("we can decide what the tenth seat actually is later
That would create a perfect storm of internal tensions that the PCs could get involved in.
The not rock the boat guys on the tradition side are basically like, the heroes in any other supernatural thing, trying to use their secret powers to protect the world as we know it from the supernatural horrors beyond (at least the ones they haven't secretly made deals with).
You could have a factional split between the Plutocrats who just want to maintain the peace of shadows and those who want to slay everything that is not the waking world.
I think the Order of Hermes and Euthanatos come out the best from this; their solid coherent paradigms comparatively speaking makes their whole thing acting as an actual organization a lot more believable.
The Euthanatos are actually not possessed of coherent paradigms. They include, broadly, Indian assassins, Greek supersoldiers, Celtic fate-magi, and more. They have, however, a strong set of common tenets that all their subgroups share, which means that you can kind of see why they stick together as a Tradition.
I wouldn't mind, but I doubt we'd come to enough of a consensus to build anything coherent. Just some of the stuff people would like to do here, though not bad ideas in and of themselves, I have no interest in exploring. I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way too. It's natural after all to have different interests and such in regards to the themes of Mage. Then there's the perspectives I just find strange, proposed reforms that are even more culturally ignorant than cannon, the baggage left over from various edition wars that I can still see resonating in here, plus the divide between old and new WoD and how that influences what we want.
Overall I would really ask yourself what you want out of a rewrite and find like minded people that can help you flesh out each other's ideas. Otherwise it's just going to be pages of arguing that ultimately goes no where. Either way, good luck.