My understanding is that the important difference between firewands and guns is not how they look but how their ammunition is created and maintained - basically, you can't machine-stamp perfectly shaped gunpowder bullets en masse that are noticeably stronger than artifact arrows, and the only way to make a stronger firewand is to use magical material that use Essence. IOW, no machine guns or tank guns usable by mortals with firewand technology.
General Exalted Thread
As far as I know you can in fact make larger and more powerful firewands, it's just that they require comparatively more fuel to fire correctly.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
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- She/Her
You can make like, basically cannons that use firedust, but those are for like, naval warfare primarily.
- Location
- Philippines
Was there any new stuff about the Niobrorans and their Spoken?
I recall some sort of optional lore about the Spoken being technically exaltations they tricked a sealed Incarna called Neptune, sealed underwater, until they were drained away.
I know they were regulated to basically the history books and some write up would be put on them in the enemies book, and something about their elders growing into some sort of magic whales?
I recall some sort of optional lore about the Spoken being technically exaltations they tricked a sealed Incarna called Neptune, sealed underwater, until they were drained away.
I know they were regulated to basically the history books and some write up would be put on them in the enemies book, and something about their elders growing into some sort of magic whales?
MiracleGrow
Miracles for only $19.99 [They/Them]
- Location
- DOOR STUCK DOOR STUCK PLEASE I BEG U
God I feel so good for pulling this fucking off. Don't read if your in my game.
I put the players into a position where they are seriously considering protecting a Wyld Hunt cause its death could have disastrous consequences. They stumbled into a plot to have it killed, leading to Cathak being forced to deploy its army in response. The Wyld Hunt was not even after the players even!
This entire plot is being carried out by extremist Iselsi members and a Tepet traitor.
I flipped the usual throw down with the hunt on its head and made the situation fifty times more complicated lmao.
This entire plot is being carried out by extremist Iselsi members and a Tepet traitor.
I flipped the usual throw down with the hunt on its head and made the situation fifty times more complicated lmao.
- Pronouns
- They/them
Honestly, I've been really impressed with the Charms in the preview, especially after the ones in Pillars which have mostly left me cold. There are some I'm not necessarily a fan of (Numinous Assumption of Form/Transcendent Ascension of Form in particular feel like they're taking something cool and unique to Forest Witches and just... turning it into a generalized capability for all Dragon-Blooded), but I'm super impressed by how even the Charms that give either niche or entry-level capabilities have been punched up to make them worth a purchase (Scent-of-Crime Method basically giving you a free question in any scene as long as you have Air Aura, or Dragon's Discerning Tongue allowing you to ask the kinds of followup questions that are, in fact, extremely useful to know in the admittedly rare cases you actually need to invoke the Charm are great examples).
All Niobrorans are "magic whales", and continue to grow throughout their lives. The thing with the Spoken is that they have the usual Exalted life extension, meaning that they can survive to grow much bigger, to the point where IIRC one of the included plot seeds was the undecaying corpses of Spoken Elders being mistaken for islands.
Spoken kit is ocean/voice/song/name themed...so, "Magic Whales" Exalted.
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- Location
- Nova Scotia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I would agree. They're really thematically incoherent as Dragon-Blooded charms. Like, they don't even pay lip service to elemental trappings or metaphors, to the point of being extremely confusing without the forest witch context. And they completely miss the point of Forest Witches, to me, in that the special shit that they do is genuinely weird and isn't like, native Dragon-Blooded charms, it's the result of unique and wondrous secrets, places, and artifacts they have access to.
With NAoF in particular, Extraordinary Form, when you actually look at the mechanics is still like... A bundle of mechanical effects that are mutually exclusive with entry level effects that Exalts can easily get access to. Just as a consequence of its design it's basically never going to be worth paying a secondary or a primary merit for for an Exalt beyond the vibes, and adding a charm purchase into the mix doesn't change that.
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Yeah, Scent-of-Crime Method was one of the ones I really liked, and gets a further boost in my opinion because it's an E1 Charm. Of the ones that I had problems with, the stand outs were Dragon-Graced Instrument, Mesmerizing Siren Call, Burning Dragon Visage, Eternally Argumentative Flame, and Irresistible Warm-Faced Style, five different social Charms across Performance and Presence whose Aura Modes do the. Exact. Same. Things. Except for, somewhat appropriately, the Water Mode, which is different for all of them. The last two are the worst offenders, because their effects are literally 1-2 sentences long. They were the Charms I was thinking of when I said "some of these could just have been Modes or Repurchases." At the very least, they are so straightforwardly utilitarian and lacking in thematic trappings that I think they should have been Universal Charms, they don't feel like they justify themselves as Exalt Charms.
On a different tack, I don't really mind NAoF or TAoF. Making them something that isn't unique to the Forest Witches opens them up for use by other weird cults, I think they would be appropriate for a character from the Cult of the Violet Fang, for example. I would agree with Gaz that they maybe shouldn't be DB Charms, but I don't dislike their existence. IMO, NAoF at least feels like it does something, even without the additional Merit purchases, as opposed to in 3e where you get to pay three Merit dots to have sparkling hallucinations.
Spoken: Hey, what's your name?I wonder if the Spoken can perform Appellomancy, if so abuse of that terrible power that might have been what caused the war.
Oglaf comic strip in spoilers, no nudity but sexual references -
Solar: I have taken the name Righteous Forbearance of Glory.
Spoken: That's not a real name.
Solar: Yes it is! It's a heroic sobriquet!
Spoken: It's silly and over the top.
Solar: It's cool!
Spoken: It's lame. You know what, I'm going to use my mighty Exalted magics and power over true names to make it so everyone just has normal, sensible names in Creation.
Solar: There can be no peace between us.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The Cult of the Violet Fang is made up of fae-bloods, and you'd probably want to just take extraordinary form/heritage to represent to begin with.
"Taking this unique thing that Forest Witches have and making it generic, so people from any random cult can take it" is basically why I think it's a really bad idea for a Dragon-Blooded charm.
I genuinely don't know what you're thinking of when you say "spend 3 merit dots to gain sparking hallucinations". 3e has Divine Heritage, and it has many many 3 dot mutation and innate merits that obviously do things -- Essence is the version of this that made the design decision to abstract any such character features away into the realm of stunts or, at most, custom charms/modes. It has only just now, in Pillars, added something you can buy instead as an alternative.
I feel like you can't mean the 3 dot merit Forest Witches pay for immersion into the Sea of Mind, because that does a lot of things and in fact connects to an entire subsystem. You're also forgetting how story merits work in 3e -- you only need to pay for them in character creation. If you enter into the Sea of Mind in play, you don't have to buy merit dots at all, let alone buy a charm that then gives you permission to buy a merit.
Article: Immersion in the Sea of Mind is represented with a three-dot Story Merit. Player characters who don't begin with it can subsequently gain it, although they'll have to pay a suitable tribute before being allowed to do so. In addition to altering the character's perceptions, it also confers the following benefits:
- When she takes an action that upholds one of her Intimacies, her roll or static value is used to determine its outcome in reality — but within the Sea, she succeeds automatically, unless she's opposed by another attuned character acting in furtherance of an Intimacy. When two attuned characters come into conflict, each multiplies their total rolled successes or applicable static value by (Intimacy) to determine its effects within the Sea. If a character takes an unopposed action that solely affects the Sea, such as building a palace that has no equivalent in Creation, no roll is necessary.
- Tasks can be completed far more quickly than normal within the Sea, decreasing the necessary time by one step: from years, to seasons, to months, to weeks, to days, to hours, to minutes. This is only reflected in the Sea; in reality, the attuned character's progress corresponds to the actual time they have spent at work.
- Her actions within the Sea are not impeded by injuries, poison, disease, shaping magic, curses, or other unwanted effects. Even if she dies, she persists within the Sea.
- If an attuned character activates a Charm in a way that has no impact on reality outside the Sea, she waives its cost.
- If an attuned character crafts an object that exists only in the Sea, she waives all craft point costs. Likewise, if she performs a sorcerous working that exists only in the Sea, it costs no experience.
- While the Sea of Mind cannot impact Creation directly, an attuned character's idealized experience of reality still conveys some benefits, guiding her toward the best ways of achieving her goals. When she spends Willpower to add a success to an action that upholds one of her Intimacies, she may add (Intimacy) non-Charm dice instead of a success or add (Intimacy/2, rounded up) to a static value.
The Sea of Mind is weak in demesnes, manses, shadowlands, and Wyld zones, and the benefits of this Merit may likewise be unreliable in such places. Outside Creation, it offers no benefits at all.
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Just the Extraordinary Form/Heritage would be good enough for a standard CotVF member, but NoTF would be a potential way you could represent the kind of bizarre enlightenment a character who has completed the pilgrimage might have. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though.
I don't think I necessarily disagree? As a Dragon-Blooded Charm, its bad.
I was in fact referring to the 3 dot immersion Merit (I did forget how Story Merits work in 3e though). Perhaps it was to far to imply that the Merit is completely useless, but, like.
Okay, to be sure we don't end up talking past each other, my interpretation and understanding of what being or something occurring "within the Sea" is that you get dunked in the pond, get the Merit, and from then on everything and everywhere you perceive yourself to be or be doing is then "within the Sea," as it overrides your perception of reality to display a more perfect Creation. Consensus realities like Atsiluth Eternal would also be "within the Sea." As such, my understanding of the benefits it conveys are:
- If you take an action that upholds an Intimacy, you automatically succeed as long as it doesn't affect anything except what you and your friends that also trip on pond water perceive, otherwise you might just hallucinate succeeding even though you failed.
- Projects proceed faster, unless they would affect anything outside of Pond-o-Vision, in which case you just hallucinate that time passes faster/you work faster.
- You cannot perceive debuffs while experiencing Pond-o-Vision (I guess this could mean that you could, say, fight at full strength even in reality, because you can't perceive that you should have wound penalties?). Also if you die in real life, you don't die in the game.
- Charms have no cost as long as you don't need them to actually do anything outside of Pond-o-Vision or Atsiluth Eternal (I guess Awareness and Investigation Charms and the like might still work, now that I think about it, since they are not actually affecting anything save what you are perceiving)
- If you make something or do a Sorcerous working, it cost no xp as long as the result only exists to Pond-o-Vision.
- If you spend Willpower on an action that upholds an Intimacy, you might get a little extra bang for your buck even if it impacts something outside of Pond-o-Vision.
- You must remain within range of the Sea of Mind's WiFi connection to retain these benefits.
So, the Merit does a whole lot if you remain entirely within the story and gameplay loop of the Forest Witches, and even more than nothing of value outside of it; but as I see it, if I wanted my Forest Witch character to, say, join a Dragon-Blooded Circle including characters from a bunch of different origins, or play as part of a mixed-Exalt Circle in Essence, then the Merit mostly seems to just help you convince your Circlemates that you are legitimately insane.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think this is more or less just a consequence of the Forest Witch concept, and has been for three editions. If you play a Forest Witch, you are probably going to be orientated around the sea of the mind, and people will think you're crazy because you act crazy. That is a lore concern about them rather than one you can really solve by making the mechanics simpler or vaguer, I think.
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes and that's the appeal
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- They/them
But... that's not nothing, is it? If you're acting on a Defining Intimacy, it's basically around +1-1.5 non-Charm successes on average, depending on whether you had any dice tricks enhancing the roll. In the DB set, that sort of effect usually goes for around 4m a pop. Considering that WP is usually said to be equivalent to ~4m, this is basically doubling the effectiveness of your WP spends when upholding a Defining Intimacy, bringing it roughly in line with an excellency. That alone is easily worth 3 dots IMO.
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- Nova Scotia
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- She/Her
Honestly it's a very generous merit in terms of what you get from it, even if it and the basic Forest Witch concept is very specific and insular, and not a great fit for every game.
But I could just take the Madness Derangement, and instead put those three Merit dots into Mentor to represent the hallucinations of my dead mentor, who is both actually alive and real and has not realized that I'm too unhinged for their ghost Resplendent Destiny to actually register in my mind.
Edit: Since apparently it's super unclear, the above is supposed to be a joke made in response to a joke.
It isn't nothing, and I even conceded that it was too far for me to imply that the Merit did nothing.
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- Location
- Nova Scotia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yes, you could do a completely different concept, which doesn't give you any of the benefits that the merit we're discussing does, doesn't tie into the setting material that the merit we're discussing does, and like, does not represent a tie to an elaborate fantasy elseworld that gets an entire chapter's worth of lore. And I could also just have my character pick up a regular sword and take the madness derangement to say that it's an artifact without having to pay 3 dots for that.
It really seems like you just don't want to play a Forest Witch -- I understand that, I do not particularly want to play one either. I don't think that making their merit do less with the sea of the mind would help with that, though.
While I don't find the Forest Witches particularly interesting, in my defense, what you are quoting is me responding in jest to Omicron saying that the appeal of the Merit is, in fact, that it helps you convince your Circlemates that you are insane.
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- she/her
We don't know any Niobroran names so it'd be kind of funny if the true names of the dreaded Spoken were distractingly mundane.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQjdpBDmtdE
You could but... that's not how the Sea of Minds work? It's both powerful and limited, but that's perfectly reasonable for a 3 dot Merit, especially since the point of taking such a merit in chargen is to tell your ST that you should, in fact, be able to use it fairly frequently, at which point you're probably underpaying for the amount of dice and motes you can get out of it.
Certainly, turning it into a generic DB charm does not in any way expand either the Forest Witch concept or the concept of cult DBs in general, because the Sea of Mind is supposed to be really specific, that's what merits are good for and Charms are bad for!
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Numinous Assumption of Form and Transcendent Ascension of Form were intended to allow some of the weirder Dragon-Blooded niches and concepts that have turned up across all three editions. (Well, mostly 1st and 3rd). They're definitely designed to allow for people to make Forest Witch Numen with if they want, but they're intentionally more open ended than that. The Cult of the Violet Fang was indeed brought up when it was being discussed, for example.
However, it's a pretty niche set of charms that wouldn't have fit in the Core or the Companion. There's some similarly weirder, edge of the field stuff elsewhere in the Player's Guide, but it's pretty minimal wordcount if you're not interested in it.
However, it's a pretty niche set of charms that wouldn't have fit in the Core or the Companion. There's some similarly weirder, edge of the field stuff elsewhere in the Player's Guide, but it's pretty minimal wordcount if you're not interested in it.