I feel like the healthiest and most equal relationships they can pursue are probably going to be with other Sidereals? The coworkers thing and air of codependency makes this fraught in some ways, but there's not really a free lunch with that. You're trading away those downsides for others if you try to have a fling with an Internal or whatever.
 
It is a major tonal shift -- 3e plays arcane fate as more of like, a life-destroying tragedy and source of collective trauma for every Sidereal, which can be very useful sometimes but is first and foremost a curse. The character who is genuinely cool with it is probably really fucking weird, and saying so to other Sidereals may not go over well. Subsequently, Charting Fate's Course depicts this as not something that the Sidereal Host did to itself to avoid accountability for their crimes, it was an unforeseen side effect to hiding the Jade Prison in the Mask. The Solar Purge took too long, the strain of the prison remaining open for years on end eventually broke the constellation and cursed the Sidereals. You can blame the surviving Bronze Faction elders, but it wasn't something they did to themselves on purpose anymore.

It works, generally, as part of the focus on the Fivescore Fellowship as a fellowship. Tightknit, clannish, bonded by trauma and a profoundly strange life experience that no one else can relate to, with the worsening factional divide now threatening that in a way that no one really wants to accept yet.
Add all this to Omicron's "it might actually be healthier to hit it off with that boy from the theatre district for a brief passionate fling" and you can come to the conclusion that the healthiest and most equal relationships a Sidereal can pursue are going to be with the enemies of Creation.

It always struck me that the way Arcane Fate is portrayed in 3e seemed like it would subtlety but inevitably encourage reaching across enemy lines to the Getimians and vice versa, as while they come at it from very different angles, "the other side" is made up of some of the very few people in the world who could possibly understand the pain of being severed from every bond you had, of living in a world that does not recall you ever existing.
 
Having more in common with the enemy than with the people you purport to protect is a spy genre classic. And something that actually happens to actual spies. Who lack Arcane Fate, obviously.
 
The quote's also a pretty good demonstration of what we gave up when did that. Because honestly, it's a really compelling pitch. And 3e struggles to deliver anything like it.

We don't have whole websites dedicated to preserving and broadcasting quotes like that anymore, you know?

There were definite advantages to ditching the Thousand Dooms, but sometimes I miss the fandom reflected in that quote. And I wonder if there might be a middle ground, somewhere, which provides the best of both worlds.
I admire the passion but they're basically wordy memes, great for the vibe and broad strokes, but they tend to oversimplify or misrepresent the deeper lore.

Playing the various Warhammer RPGs has taught me that I probably won't enjoy playing with people who've learned the lore this way.
 
Healthy relationships? Nah time to work out a messy romance between a Sidereal and Infernal. All my brain electrons are in place and working max over drive, brain currently spitting smoke out of my ears.
 
I marathoned @Gazetteer's The Last Daughter and am halfway through A Vision in Bronze's thread so I think I go here now? the murkily grey nature of all the factions really appeals, as does the really wild variety of... well, everything
 
By emphasizing Arcane Fate as a penalty more, and having fated Sidereals tend to live on Creation more until Exaltation instead of being raised by the Bureau, they allow greater diversity in Sidereals, while also having this tragic curse that pushes the Fellowship to be a Fellowship. You're having a work lunch with someone who believes the most insane religious heresies and is going steady with the God of Unfaithful Lovers as you debate a destiny about which city is going to be attacked by a warlord... and you have every reason to try to push past these problems and try to be collegial.

I've only been in one Sid game, but that circle had what I thought was an interesting dynamic; We had history together and had done work together in the past. We enjoyed working together, so we did it.

But we weren't like a tight-knit adventuring party like you might find in D&D or a Solar/Abyssal game; we were coworkers in the same convention. We had our own agendas, working towards similar goals. We spent a lot of time apart and split up. We brought other sids onto our missions, and while the four of us were the primary group, there were other sids. Even within the group we had our own individual dynamics; my Oracle and our Shieldbearer were making regular contact with the Walker in Darkness and the Underworld to try and gather information, which the others weren't aware of the full details of. My Oracle had a project with Kejak's rival whose name escapes me to fracture Skullstone's culture. My Oracle had a spat that cost the shieldbearer political influence. In our very first scene we co-signed a proposal to send a hurricane to destroy a city in An-Teng.

Hell, I set the Reckoner up on a blind date once.

It did feel like a fellowship. Our interests were kind of aligned towards the same end goal - the preservation of Creation (and in this game's case, the Convention on the Dead) but our interests and methods varied on a global scale.

Add all this to Omicron's "it might actually be healthier to hit it off with that boy from the theatre district for a brief passionate fling" and you can come to the conclusion that the healthiest and most equal relationships a Sidereal can pursue are going to be with the enemies of Creation.

"She's an enemy of life itself, a destroyer of all we hold dear!"
"Okay, I hear you. Counterpoint: She's really hot."

It always struck me that the way Arcane Fate is portrayed in 3e seemed like it would subtlety but inevitably encourage reaching across enemy lines to the Getimians and vice versa, as while they come at it from very different angles, "the other side" is made up of some of the very few people in the world who could possibly understand the pain of being severed from every bond you had, of living in a world that does not recall you ever existing.

This would be true except that Getimians are, by their very nature, working against fate and its plans. Still, Sid/Get collabs could be very fun.

I am looking forward to Getimians in 3e so much.

Healthy relationships? Nah time to work out a messy romance between a Sidereal and Infernal. All my brain electrons are in place and working max over drive, brain currently spitting smoke out of my ears.

Or you could date your Heaven's Dragon employee. There's absolutely no toxic implications or unhealthy power dynamics in that whatsoever
 
This is a open call to everyone who sees this. I have a horrible habit of putting small strange dogs in all my tabletop games as a reoccurring bit with one of my groups. If you got any stupid ideas or lore for that, throw them at me.
 
This is a open call to everyone who sees this. I have a horrible habit of putting small strange dogs in all my tabletop games as a reoccurring bit with one of my groups. If you got any stupid ideas or lore for that, throw them at me.
Gonna just toss some stuff out there off the top of my head.

-A Harbinger's labrador familiar often wanders off and gets lost. It always finds its way back when its master needs it, but in the meantime, it likes to follow whoever looks at it.

-A Raksha has a pet beagle that can speak through the mouths of those around them, but only by tellingly wildly inappropriate jokes.

-A highly sophisticated talking doberman that suspiciously dodges all questions as to why and how it can talk. It runs a library.

-Luna occasionally takes the form of an adorable snow-white puppy with blue glowing eyes. The puppy leads lost travellers out of the woods, because sometimes Luna doesn't want to tell an irreverent joke and just wants belly rubs. If you fail to give her belly rubs, though, you'll wake up back in the forest the next time you have something urgent to do.

-Ghost doggy! One of the few truly joyful things in the underworld with no caveats. Some of them have little red noses and guide travellers through the Labyrinth.
 
This is a open call to everyone who sees this. I have a horrible habit of putting small strange dogs in all my tabletop games as a reoccurring bit with one of my groups. If you got any stupid ideas or lore for that, throw them at me.

I remember that in Goethe's Faust, Mephistopheles appears in the form of a poodle (which appearently is an old term that just means "small dog") and since them the idea of a small, cute demon poodle trying to tempt people into sin has stuck in my head. Could be a second circle maybe?
 
I marathoned @Gazetteer's The Last Daughter and am halfway through A Vision in Bronze's thread so I think I go here now? the murkily grey nature of all the factions really appeals, as does the really wild variety of... well, everything
More people than I would have expected tell me this. Which is like, nice -- I like Exalted a lot, and I write about it to share the things about it that I find compelling with people as much as to get stories and horrible little blorbos out of my head. I feel like The Last Daughter is a bit of a strange/non-standard way to get into the setting. Like, it's not really a particularly good vertical slice, and is focused on a very specific part of the world and viewpoint. The first experience most people playing the actual game have with Dynasts is as antagonists, because most Exalted games -- particularly most first Exalted games -- are Solar games.

However, yeah, one of my favourite parts of the setting is also how easy it is to cast the various Exalt types and factions as protagonists or antagonists, depending on the specific story. Some of them are worse than others -- for a lot of games, the Realm takes the role of an evil empire that the player character's are trying to tear down. If you're playing a heroic Anathema, Wyld Hunts are misguided zealots out to kill you for existing too hard. But I really like being able to use the Realm and the Scarlet Dynasty as a backdrop to tell stories in, both for actual Exalted games I've run, and for stories and quests I've written. Like, the Imperial City as described in the Realm is my favourite single location in the entire setting, most days, but it's a surprisingly neglected one for a lot of the fanbase.
 
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I can only speak for myself, but it's exactly because it was such an in-depth and specific view of dynastic life that it got me! going through such a depiction of different politics and attitudes and tensions, the interplay of all these different facets of the society ambraea is moving through, along with the often distinct situations and problems of the other characters we also get a look at... and then pulling back to go "btw, these are usually the setting's antagonists, and this amount of breadth and depth can be had for everyone else"

nothing could have delighted me more! though it also speaks to the skill of your writing, and the thought and dedication you had to approaching these projects, and the setting as a whole

I'm someone who will often dive into puddle-deep works, pickaxe in hand, to carve out that space myself for what catches my interest. probably that's why a deep, if not broader and more general, cut of the setting and story was so effective

though now that I'm interested I don't really know where to begin!
 
However, yeah, one of my favourite parts of the setting is also how easy it is to cast the various Exalt types and factions as protagonists or antagonists, depending on the specific story. Some of them are worse than others -- for a lot of games, the Realm takes the role of an evil empire that the player character's are trying to tear down. If you're playing a heroic Anathema, Wyld Hunts are misguided zealots out to kill you for existing too hard. But I really like being able to use the Realm and the Scarlet Dynasty as a backdrop to tell stories in, both for actual Exalted games I've run, and for stories and quests I've written. Like, the Imperial City as described in the Realm is my favourite single location in the entire setting, most days, but it's a surprisingly neglected one for a lot of the fanbase.

It probably has to do with that anyone who isn't a Dragon Blooded being there is on a short timer to getting jumped by ninjas, and Dragon Blooded have an awful lot of other interesting places to be, so the habit of "The Imperial City is the nicest place you'll never get to see except from inside a bodybag" carries over even when it shouldn't.
 
It probably has to do with that anyone who isn't a Dragon Blooded being there is on a short timer to getting jumped by ninjas
Well, no. It's only Lunars, Solars, and the Solar recolours who are guaranteed to get jumped by a Wyld Hunt, and they can operate there if they're quiet. Getimians probably just need to tread carefully and not do anything stupid that will attract the attention of the Convention on Rogue Assets.

Apart from Dragon-Blooded, Exigents, Liminals, and Creation-side Alchemicals are fine.
 
Well, no. It's only Lunars, Solars, and the Solar recolours who are guaranteed to get jumped by a Wyld Hunt, and they can operate there if they're quiet. Getimians probably just need to tread carefully and not do anything stupid that will attract the attention of the Convention on Rogue Assets.

Apart from Dragon-Blooded, Exigents, Liminals, and Creation-side Alchemicals are fine.

I mean, that's the better part of half of the player character types, including the core book's default one. You're not wrong that it's not that bad as written, but perception is important, and all it takes is one ST who treats it like a panopticon to set the stage.

Like the oh-so-lovely experiences I've had to suffer through in the past that abused a lot of Rules as Written to create outcomes that didn't make sense when looking at the setting material. No, I highly doubt basic fucking thaumaturgy can let you create a panopticon to identify Anathema who cross it, and simple Artifacts that can force you to anima flare if you enter their field of influence, and there's nothing you can do to counter any of that aside from just never going into one of those defended areas -.-

Look, a lot of my statements aren't just me talking out of my arse, they're from being on the receiving end of that kind of chicanery. I've lost a lot of good characters to "The ST treats the setting like a Gygaxian funnel", and the first warning I get of it is when I'm already stuck in the point of no return.
 
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though now that I'm interested I don't really know where to begin!
The two setting material exclusive books for Exalted third edition are The Realm and Across the Eight Directions. The 3e corebook offers a high level look at the setting along with a lot of other stuff, although it's very dense and awkwardly laid out and a bit dated in some of its treatment of specific elements. All of the Exalt type specific books have additional setting material, as do the companions other than Miracles of the Solar Exalted

The primary sources for The Last Daughter were mostly The Realm, Dragon-Blooded: What Fire Has Wrought, and Heirs to the Shogunate. I've also pulled on a lot of miscellaneous other things, though. Sidereals: Charting Fate's Course, The Realm again, and Across the Eight Directions are the main ones for AViB, until the Sidereal companion comes out.
 
I'm super interested in seeing the remaining full Ex3 Splats. I heard Getimians and Liminals will be getting smaller books, so maybe that means they'll be developed faster?
 
I mean, that's the better part of half of the player character types, including the core book's default one. You're not wrong that it's not that bad as written, but perception is important, and all it takes is one ST who treats it like a panopticon to set the stage.

Like the oh-so-lovely experiences I've had to suffer through in the past that abused a lot of Rules as Written to create outcomes that didn't make sense when looking at the setting material. No, I highly doubt basic fucking thaumaturgy can let you create a panopticon to identify Anathema who cross it, and simple Artifacts that can force you to anima flare if you enter their field of influence, and there's nothing you can do to counter any of that aside from just never going into one of those defended areas -.-

Look, a lot of my statements aren't just me talking out of my arse, they're from being on the receiving end of that kind of chicanery. I've lost a lot of good characters to "The ST treats the setting like a Gygaxian funnel", and the first warning I get of it is when I'm already stuck in the point of no return.
I cannot speak to any specific ST's specific headcanons, and it can't really inform how I talk about the setting.

It is fair to say that most of the Blessed Isle is a venue primarily for Terrestrial level play, along with Sidereals and Celestial level Exigents. That is also half the Exalt types, though.
 
Well, no. It's only Lunars, Solars, and the Solar recolours who are guaranteed to get jumped by a Wyld Hunt, and they can operate there if they're quiet. Getimians probably just need to tread carefully and not do anything stupid that will attract the attention of the Convention on Rogue Assets.

Apart from Dragon-Blooded, Exigents, Liminals, and Creation-side Alchemicals are fine.
It being legal doesn't make it a good idea…and from a certain perspective, assassins are a best case scenario of what they could send after you. This the Imperial City, home of the Thousand Scales, second to none at least in Creation in the breadth and depth of Tedious Bureaucracy they can send after you.

"Good afternoon, sir/madam/polite form of address, what brings you to the Imperial City? Please fill out this twenty page form to describe your business here. Have you gone through customs? Have your Artifacts and Familiars all been registered to you? Please fill out these twenty page forms to confirm that you have filled out the twenty page registration form for each item and/or creature. Would you like to read our brochure on the Benefits of Serving the Realm? You must fill out this twenty page form in order to decline reading the brochure. What are…"
 
There's been lasting damage done to player perceptions of the viability of none Dragon-Blooded on the Blessed Isle that Ex3 didn't push back against as firmly as it did with Yu-Shan.

Part of the problem there is that Dragon-Blooded games almost exist in their own mini-setting that we shouldn't sacrifice for the sake of where a circle of Solars might want to go, while Heaven's Dragons and enclaves of mortals living in Yu-Shan helped to make the place less boring for Sidereals.
 
An Exigent in the Blessed Isle is going to be facing scrutiny, suspicion, and social pressure to join the Immaculate Order to redeem the sin of their Exaltation with righteous service. Saying "No" to the monks who are trying to press you into service isn't going to lead to a Wyld Hunt manifesting to gank you in the next alleyway, or to you getting blackbagged and taken to a monastery to take oaths, but they make come back several times, lean on local officials to make trouble for you, and generally act as the kind of antagonist who works below the level of "outright violence" and who can be deterred with sufficient effort.

In other words, it creates interesting complications for you to navigate that can't (or shouldn't) be solved with outright violence. That's what we call "engaging gameplay."
 
Part of the problem there is that Dragon-Blooded games almost exist in their own mini-setting that we shouldn't sacrifice for the sake of where a circle of Solars might want to go, while Heaven's Dragons and enclaves of mortals living in Yu-Shan helped to make the place less boring for Sidereals.
I agree in terms of not making the Blessed Isle too overly welcoming to Solars. Doing shit there should feel very precarious for them.

Non-DB Exalts meant for Terrestrial level play, though, which means Exigents and Liminals if you're playing Essence or from the future, is conspicuously written in such a way that the other Exalt types can slot into a DB game relatively easily. Like, here's a Hearth of Dragon-Blooded and their weird friend, who is not an Anathema but still benefits from being in a Dynast's entourage. Exigents like the Foxbinder and others who are part of the Immaculate Order or who are approved by them even have societal legitimacy, to a degree.

Bringing a Sovereign to the Blessed Isle is probably going to be a disaster, but probably not the "killed by Wyld Hunt" kind of disaster.
 
Only played a Solar on the isle in one game and we were rather explicitly keeping as low a profile as we could. Except for our night caste, funnily enough, who decided stealing from the Immaculates was a fun way to spend an evening with her circlemate.

Point is, yeah, being a Solar on the isle that wants you dead is and should be a difficult position to be in. Just like playing a Getimian in Heaven is going to be a hard time, because the Sids are hunting you. Or a Sid trying to hang out with a Silver Pact circle. (Not all equally difficult scenarios i know not the point)

Some Exalted are going to have a harder time under certain scenarios and that's fine.
 
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