General Exalted Thread
- Location
- Ottawa
I sympathize, I really do. I know that it makes the whole Kickstarter process less fun when someone's audibly unimpressed. And I know long arguments over niggling details are no fun to watch.
If we want the conversation to be about something else, though, someone needs to talk about something else. And people seem significantly more interested in gnawing that bone down to the marrow than in anything else.
Nobody's biting on other comments. Like, I was actually hoping someone would have an interesting response to this bit:
But that was ignored, in favour of round #8 or so of the argument over a minor what-if from the backstory.
Well, I can work with that. It doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother you. But if you'd rather talk about something else, I'm all for that.
If you don't care for / about other broken constellations, why not talk about the new Yu-Shan?
If we want the conversation to be about something else, though, someone needs to talk about something else. And people seem significantly more interested in gnawing that bone down to the marrow than in anything else.
Nobody's biting on other comments. Like, I was actually hoping someone would have an interesting response to this bit:
But that was ignored, in favour of round #8 or so of the argument over a minor what-if from the backstory.
Well, I can work with that. It doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother you. But if you'd rather talk about something else, I'm all for that.
If you don't care for / about other broken constellations, why not talk about the new Yu-Shan?
- Pronouns
- They/Them
You aren't being 'unimpressed', you are making your personal grudge with people who aren't even involved anymore everyone else's problem. What exactly have you added to this conversation? You don't have any actual insight into the material, because you refuse to look at the manuscript. All you've done is attack anything anyone finds that they like about this, and it is exhausting. Just reading this is utterly exhausting. Please just stop and find something else to occupy your attention.
- Location
- Ottawa
...I promise you, whatever problem you have with this conversation or with my behaviour, posts like that are only going to make the problem worse. Obviously I don't agree with how you've characterized me, but is arguing with me about that really something you want to do?
Seriously, we can have other conversations. I actually think the changes to Yu-Shan sound promising! I've been saying so! Why not talk about 'em?
And I've recently picked up Chorus of the Neverborn again, if anyone else likes Exalted webcomics. Anyone else read it here?
I've never really been sure how, or if, 3e's various new Exalt types affect the Usurpation. Is there a canon answer to that? An interesting non-canon one?
Seriously, we can have other conversations. I actually think the changes to Yu-Shan sound promising! I've been saying so! Why not talk about 'em?
And I've recently picked up Chorus of the Neverborn again, if anyone else likes Exalted webcomics. Anyone else read it here?
I've never really been sure how, or if, 3e's various new Exalt types affect the Usurpation. Is there a canon answer to that? An interesting non-canon one?
grommile
nasty-minded old cynic
- Location
- NERV-Mercia
- Pronouns
- Traditional/Animate
Because having someone be noisy about how they don't like a big thing about the thing they haven't read discourages conversation about other parts of the thing they haven't read.
- Location
- Ottawa
A big thing?
Most of this conversation's been about the most minor of throwaway details. People are pursuing it because it's a fight, not because it's important.
And I'll answer post for post until the end of time because I'm stupid like that. But I'd be as happy - happier! - discussing something else.
Even if you're determined to win me over, why not go about it another way? You could post the best block of text you've found in the manuscript. I promise to read it with an open mind.
Most of this conversation's been about the most minor of throwaway details. People are pursuing it because it's a fight, not because it's important.
And I'll answer post for post until the end of time because I'm stupid like that. But I'd be as happy - happier! - discussing something else.
Even if you're determined to win me over, why not go about it another way? You could post the best block of text you've found in the manuscript. I promise to read it with an open mind.
I do very much appreciate the sections given over to describing humans living in Yu-Shan. Obviously there's the Sidereals, but we also get some more detail on the Heaven's Dragons communities, which is a welcome addition to what's already been detailed in Heirs to the Shogunate. The relationship between the two Exalted groups is further developed a little as well, with notes like family and relationships and lifelong friendships, plus there's a few named ones who work in or with the various celestial bureaus. Mortals and God-Blooded also get some welcome content describing what roles they play in Yu-Shan society, such as God-Blooded being entitled to receiving from the same ambrosia dole that unemployed gods benefit from.
There's also Remembrance, Veiled in Light, which is watched over by Aurora's eldest living child and is a memorial to the fallen Incarna, which I quite appreciate as a locale. Given that I've recently been playing a bunch of Pentiment it's also somewhat apropos to that game's themes of history and our relationship with the past. I can think of a premise where a family of Heaven's Dragons ends up being drafted as caretakers for the memorial, as an example, which would probably have some interesting familial and political ramifications for all parties involved.
There's also Remembrance, Veiled in Light, which is watched over by Aurora's eldest living child and is a memorial to the fallen Incarna, which I quite appreciate as a locale. Given that I've recently been playing a bunch of Pentiment it's also somewhat apropos to that game's themes of history and our relationship with the past. I can think of a premise where a family of Heaven's Dragons ends up being drafted as caretakers for the memorial, as an example, which would probably have some interesting familial and political ramifications for all parties involved.
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Most weren't around.
The Spoken: Despite being extinct, their wraiths fought against Solars.
Getimians: Are sealed.
Liminals: Didn't exist yet.
Exigents: Their book implied that they were really rare until recently.
- Location
- London, England
Honestly what we've got for 3e Sidereals and Yu-Shan thus far is just... really cool.
One major change I really like is the removal of the actual Visions of Bronze and Gold. There's no grand prophecy anymore, no clearly defined binary choice between A and B that all the Sidereals sat down to decide on. Instead, the Bronze simply... looked at the state of the world, looked at where it was heading, and decided to seek a solution.
I really like this because it fundamentally changes where the... agency, I guess, of the Usurpation can be found. The Vision of Bronze is a philosophy, a plan born of conspiracy and perspective. Chejop Kejak wasn't offered this path by the whims of fate and destiny, he built it for himself. Which opens up a lot more ground in terms of opposing the Usurpation and all that came with it, because it means you can agree with Chejop on a lot of the facts and still think he and his group made the wrong call in how to handle them.
One major change I really like is the removal of the actual Visions of Bronze and Gold. There's no grand prophecy anymore, no clearly defined binary choice between A and B that all the Sidereals sat down to decide on. Instead, the Bronze simply... looked at the state of the world, looked at where it was heading, and decided to seek a solution.
I really like this because it fundamentally changes where the... agency, I guess, of the Usurpation can be found. The Vision of Bronze is a philosophy, a plan born of conspiracy and perspective. Chejop Kejak wasn't offered this path by the whims of fate and destiny, he built it for himself. Which opens up a lot more ground in terms of opposing the Usurpation and all that came with it, because it means you can agree with Chejop on a lot of the facts and still think he and his group made the wrong call in how to handle them.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Or even if you do think that they made the right call at the time, that's wholly separate from whether or not the system that his faction is supporting now is working and is worth preserving. That the Solar Purge is just not very important to the politics of Sidereals who have Exalted in the Second Age makes a lot of sense. It's just not the context they've lived their lives in or what the contemporary version of the Gold Faction cares about most.
Yeah, I'd largely agree with that assessment. It also opens up a lot more for differing takes on what it means to be in a faction. Like the Gold are noted to be mainly unified by their opposition to the Bronze, with far less coherent a vision amongst themselves through history, ranging from stuff like ethical concerns with the status quo to opposing the Usurpation/Solar Purge to being unhappy with the fallout of the Great Contagion. It's in a somewhat precarious spot right now that I like.
slybrarian
Creature of Fable
- Location
- A Far and Sunless Land
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I also appreciate the gods are given a more interesting relationship to the Usurpation/Purge than previously. To the extent that they still care after all this time, it's because of how they were personally impacted. Amoth City-Smiter seems to be having a great time, but gods that had purviews like artificial flight or thinking machines remain bitter about their loss of station as Creation slowly loses more and more ability to have those things.
Exigents were more common during the First Age than during the Second, as Sol was paying more attention to Creation and the plight of Terrestial gods. The new information on the Usurpation says that a number of Exigents were involved. So too were some gods, Lunars, and even a couple of Solars, although the implication is that they weren't aware that the Sidereals planned to remove the Solars entirely rather than just trying turn them on and off again.
HalfTangible
Only half sane (it's less cringe)
- Location
- Valkyrie, Primus
*shrug* I disagree re:the vision of Bronze/Gold. I feel that going without it will make the Sidereals' actions far less coherent as well as the Fivescore fellowship as a whole (yes I know the exact numbers aren't defined anymore but you get the point). That said I'm not a huge Sidereal fan to begin with and haven't looked at the manuscript as of yet so maybe there's just some perspective I'm lacking.
Yes, Exigents were more common during the First Age, but their numbers diminished when the Unconquered Sun turned his face from Creation.
The Exigents who fought in the Usurpation, or are from before the abandonment or are one of the rare cases of the Sun hearing a prayer.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Article: Remembrance, Veiled in Light
This monastery-manse stands in memorial to a Celestial Incarna who lost his life in the Divine Revolution. Remembrance is elegant in its archaism; its penitent-curators spend every waking hour maintaining its outmoded opalescent domes and exaggerated adamant arches, ceaselessly perpetuating the geomancy of the last known demesne to bear the lost Incarna's aspect. Remembrance's first, only, and current owner is Starless Austera, God of Starfall Showers, the fallen Incarna's oldest daughter. Disconsolate from endless millennia maintaining a monument to her own grief, despondent with the Department of Celestial Concerns' reluctance to assign a replacement caretaker, Austera grows ever closer to simply handing the precious manse over to the next Exalt they meet.
I've made this joke elsewhere, but like... That is a fucking wild plot hook at the end there. Picture this: you, a random Heaven's Dragon going about your day, happening to make eye contact with Starless Austera on the day they finally snap, and suddenly you somehow find yourself explaining to the Department of Celestial Concerns and a whole bunch of penitent sky phenomena gods why you're now the one in control of the world's last Auroral manse.
Meanwhile, Austera is already on a beach somewhere, kicking back with a pair of adamant shades.
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- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's the same beach the Scarlet Empress is drinking margaritas on, you'll never find her.
HalfTangible
Only half sane (it's less cringe)
- Location
- Valkyrie, Primus
"... So. What're you here for?"
"My mother's dead and I got sick of waiting for my boss to assign someone else to her memorial. You?"
"My kids are assholes and the Ebon Dragon is a simp."
"Hm."
HalfTangible
Only half sane (it's less cringe)
- Location
- Valkyrie, Primus
So this conversation just happened:
Friend: "Fun fact: Maiden tea is guaranteed, if it ever fails you then the goddess of maiden tea will file good destinies for the kid or possibly even adopt themwhether you want her to or not."
Me: That's hilarious and now I want to make that character.
Possibly as a Sidereal.
"The Maiden Tea failed? Hrmph, fine, I'll give you a good desti-"
"knock on the door This child is destined to become a Sidereal, I'm here to take him and train him."
"... Damn I'm good."
Friend: "Fun fact: Maiden tea is guaranteed, if it ever fails you then the goddess of maiden tea will file good destinies for the kid or possibly even adopt them
Me: That's hilarious and now I want to make that character.
Possibly as a Sidereal.
"The Maiden Tea failed? Hrmph, fine, I'll give you a good desti-"
"knock on the door This child is destined to become a Sidereal, I'm here to take him and train him."
"... Damn I'm good."
Well this made me choke on my drink laughing, if that counts.
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- Location
- Nova Scotia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Literally one of the first things we learned in my college records management course was "never create misc. categories, because people will use them", so this is incredibly funny in a like... deeply authentic way.
grommile
nasty-minded old cynic
- Location
- NERV-Mercia
- Pronouns
- Traditional/Animate
Catch-22.
If you don't have a misc category, everyone who does filing will treat a different category as misc
TenfoldShields
Lounging on a Hoard of Words
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I really like how in the personalities presented with the various Bureaus and Divisions, you get a whole range of opinions and perspectives on the Gold/Bronze divide. Fox of Paradise in the Division of Serenity is like- I could really only call him a "champagne Gold" honestly, in that he's enthusiastic about the philosophy but largely disinterested in the radical projects like the Cult of the Illuminated. Ruvia, Captain of the Golden Barque holds himself above the Bronze and Gold divide but like you said, in practice that tends to favor the established Bronze. Ydia, Sub-Director of Looted Tombs is increasingly impressed and enamored with the sheer audacity and heroic deeds of the returning Solars and has struck up a genuine friendship with Lytek. Hu Dai Liang, Shogun of the Crimson Banner, is an ardent Bronze and tries to hold herself to a standard of unimpeachable conduct (even as she increasingly worries about being usurped by Ahlat or Siakal). Her colleague, Ashen-Eyed Ludall, is coming at it from the opposite direction- having seen the atrocities of the Realm he's enormously sympathetic to the Gold faction's rhetoric but knows that his position is vulnerable enough he can't snub the Bronze.
There's really an eye just- everywhere in trying to capture the personal in the political. That these are people who work together, are colleagues and are often friends, that they care deeply about their jobs even as their positions impose ever greater burdens upon them. As the work seems to only become harder, the odds longer, success and what shape it might take ever more uncertain. I've always been really kinda intrigued by Sidereals but found Yu-Shan and the Bureaucracy itself difficult to get into, a lot of the lore and details around it sorta opaque and confusing for me or, like, hypothetically appealing but lacking a sort of impact that I was looking for.
But the manuscript really takes pains to clearly sketch out the culture and atmosphere of these bureaus, what they feel like, who staffs them. What they do and how they approach it. There's so many genuinely wonderful details here that help make it all feel vivid and alive and I think it's solidly cemented Sidereals in my, like, top three favorite Exalts.
The NPC I like best so far I think is Let Mountains Fall.
Article: Let Mountains Fall, Weather-Worker Second Class
A veteran of the Seasons Revolt, Let Mountains Fall earned his reputation not through great feats of heroism but the slow, demanding work of bringing countless season-spirits together as a unified whole. A crocodile-headed water elemental known as a sobeksis, he's a steadfast egalitarian with little regard for hierarchy or Heaven's law. Famous for his affability and coarse humor, he's known throughout the bureau as a friend, associate, and familiar face.
Let Mountains Fall technically belongs to the bureau's lowest ranks, having turned down every management position offered to him. He much prefers a role on the front lines as a humble weather-worker, treasuring the camaraderie of his fellow workers and the anonymity that comes with his low standing outside the bureau. He's still passionately involved in organizing the Celestial Bureaucracy's lower ranks, aiding spirits across the five bureaus in negotiating better wages, working hours, and conditions. This has made him an enemy of many of the Celestial Bureaucracy's line management, and he's drawn the notice of a few of the Bureaucracy's uppermost echelons.
The elemental's current project is Bureau of Humanity's Urban Periphery Department, whose junior officials handle the bulk of all reports from city fathers and other urban terrestrial gods, a duty fobbed off on them by those in the Division of Cities who're supposed to read them. This isn't a purely selfless plan — the office has cut him on the bribes of ambrosia they regularly receive for covering up Wun Ja's conspiracy with the city fathers in official records.
Outside of work, Let Mountains Fall pursues a passion for poetry. His verse is enthusiastic at best, but he's a surprisingly vicious critic. His occasional threats to devour poets whose work displeases him draw raucous laughter...though it's a rare poet whose heart doesn't skip a beat when they meet him.
Blue Collar Sobek, absolute daddy crocodile-man militant unionist and labor organizer. No notes, literally perfect.
View: https://youtu.be/j4RnjYwbtp4
View: https://youtu.be/xNwQyNMSUmg
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notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
It's one of the optional ones in Exigents. They got twisted into the Hearteaters, and they're utterly horrifying.