- Location
- Singapore
Ah. Exalts.
They should have just killed her. Join battle always trumps social attacks. :lol
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General Exalted Thread
They should have just killed her. Join battle always trumps social attacks. :lol
This is because Second Edition is terrible. It's not actually how people should behave.
- Location
- Singapore
Ah. Sorry, I haven't slept well in like 10 days. My joke-radar is bad off.
- Location
- Singapore
Hmm.... that needs a smiley face.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Linky McDinky?
- Location
- U.S.
It's a valid answer, just not one that should be without consequences. People do rapidly stop talking if you stab them in the face, though people may then be less willing to talk to you in the future, and you may have a small problem with authorities hating you now.
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sure. It's still at first update but I'm going to update again today or tomorrow.
- Location
- Singapore
Actually, have you ever done that? Or seen anyone do it?
grommile
nasty-minded old cynic
- Location
- NERV-Mercia
- Pronouns
- Traditional/Animate
Violence as a means of terminating an undesirable social interaction happens every day.
Not usually at the level of "stab them in the face with a shonen surfsword", admittedly, and Ex2e's mechanical encouragement of defaulting to it is a real problem.
As in real life, however, defaulting to it is a reeeal good way of getting people pissed off at you.
- Location
- Singapore
*social attack*
*join battle*
*become persona non grata due to breaking guest right*
*loses all allies and contacts*
*dies like a bitch to Wild Hunt*
Like this?
- Location
- Singapore
Oh yeah, that reminds me.
Medieval Law Enforcement
So yes, I've been reading this whole thing, and I realised that, creation, as a whole, is far different from.... everything. I mean, they don't have extensive records. What do they do when a newcomer enters town? Can a dragonblooded be a mass murderer in one city, fuck off, and then heal a plague in another and be lauded as a hero? Can a solar exalted simply flee from a city where he's been found out, and then put on 'Disguise of a New face' to simply disappear into the backdrop of another town?
Yes.
But I think it should be considered. I mean, without modern-day forensics, a police force you can appeal to for help, nor ordinary security patrols, the streets and back alleys of Creation and their reactions to crime are probably much different.
Medieval Law Enforcement
So yes, I've been reading this whole thing, and I realised that, creation, as a whole, is far different from.... everything. I mean, they don't have extensive records. What do they do when a newcomer enters town? Can a dragonblooded be a mass murderer in one city, fuck off, and then heal a plague in another and be lauded as a hero? Can a solar exalted simply flee from a city where he's been found out, and then put on 'Disguise of a New face' to simply disappear into the backdrop of another town?
Yes.
But I think it should be considered. I mean, without modern-day forensics, a police force you can appeal to for help, nor ordinary security patrols, the streets and back alleys of Creation and their reactions to crime are probably much different.
- Location
- Earth Prime
On the subject of Join Battle in the face of Social Combat, the real problem 2E has is one of presentation. Because Social Combat is thus termed, and the way it plays out even without UMI feels like the character is being mind controlled, too many players (STs included) assume that initiating Social Combat is as hostile as walking up to somebody and overtly casting dominate person on them, while shouting the spell name in their face.
And, since spending 1 wp can no-sell a social attack that isn't backed by HEFTY Charms, "obviously" anybody who could choose to automatically make their Will Save vs. dominate person by spending a resource would do so. And, since forcing them to do that to protect themselves from your nefarious mind control is an overtly hostile act that they will equally obviously wish to prevent from being repeated, they have every in-character reason to shout, "How DARE you!?" and initiate physical combat. It's only self-defense against the evil mind controller, right?
The truth of what Social Combat is modeling is lost on such players. It isn't entirely their fault; the mechanics do frame it in that hostile and dangerous a fashion. They're better than lacking any at all, but they come across as too aggressive.
And, since spending 1 wp can no-sell a social attack that isn't backed by HEFTY Charms, "obviously" anybody who could choose to automatically make their Will Save vs. dominate person by spending a resource would do so. And, since forcing them to do that to protect themselves from your nefarious mind control is an overtly hostile act that they will equally obviously wish to prevent from being repeated, they have every in-character reason to shout, "How DARE you!?" and initiate physical combat. It's only self-defense against the evil mind controller, right?
The truth of what Social Combat is modeling is lost on such players. It isn't entirely their fault; the mechanics do frame it in that hostile and dangerous a fashion. They're better than lacking any at all, but they come across as too aggressive.
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
The story goes that Social Combat was directly harvested from an old 1E supplement for playing raksha - which is why it's so adversarial and weird. It was originally intended to model Chaos monsters slinging narrative mindfuck attacks at each other.
Queshire
Wants a pink flamingo for their lawn.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Well, it's going to depending on just where in Creation you're talking about. Why wouldn't the Realm have extensive records on the people living there for example?
See, I don't think it's "lost" on players so much as the system plainly IS adversarial. A certain feeling of cynical edge and little respect for characterization kinda emanates from how things are framed. People are not stupid, and they pick up on that.
I would in fact say that the mechanics are significantly worse than not having any at all, because I have seen people who otherwise are great roleplayers who would rather spend a session discussing economics with the orc chieftain than attacking it shut down into full tactical assault mindset when Social Combat comes into play. Hell, I've seen players threaten each other with social combat the same way you'd threaten someone with running them through with your sword, and social combat was considered the worse threat.
I would in fact say that the mechanics are significantly worse than not having any at all, because I have seen people who otherwise are great roleplayers who would rather spend a session discussing economics with the orc chieftain than attacking it shut down into full tactical assault mindset when Social Combat comes into play. Hell, I've seen players threaten each other with social combat the same way you'd threaten someone with running them through with your sword, and social combat was considered the worse threat.
- Location
- Earth Prime
That explains a lot. And then 2E Shaping Combat made it even worse, since they'd already cribbed the more straightforward mechanics for social combat.
Oh, I don't disagree that the players are picking up on what's there. That doesn't change that it's not what is MEANT to be modeled. It highlights the problem with the presentation.
I do think that it's better than having no mechanics at all, if only because it opens the door to exploring better mechanics, rather than leaving us with a list of traits you can invest resources in that do nothing except let you ask, "Uh, is 30 bazillion enough successes to convince this guy who just saw me eating his wife's corpse for dinner that he's madly in love with me and wants to help me cook his children, too?"
The mechanics aren't good, but they're better than nothing, because "nothing" means that your stats for social stuff do nothing. So investing in them is stupid, because you can just "RP" around having bad ones.
Yes, that's actually bad role playing, but even though you and I know that, that doesn't change that I've WATCHED that mindset cause games to have players who are good at play-acting a role dominate in social situations over players who invested their chargen resources in being a good socialite, while also being THE BEST fighter/mage/whatever because that's where they actually PUT their resources. Thus, the second player is overshadowed everywhere because he's bad at non-social stuff (having put his resources in social), and can't "play act" the social stuff as well as the other player, so the other player's character is treated as being the better socialite.
It stands out in particular with characters who are of a stereotypically socially inept/uncouth clan/race/class/status. The player revels in the reputation as "the one socially-acceptable/polite/well-spoken [whatever]." While the high rolls but poorer play-acting of the actual socialites are hand-waved as, "Well, yeah, but you're EXPECTED to be that way, so it's not as impressive."
(This is a problem I saw most often in L5R 2e and 3e, but I have witnessed it in WoD games, too.)
Hi everyone, long time lurker (since the 3e leak) first time commenter. Quick question for anyone who cares about a Modern Exalted setting: Assuming you're in a world without access to Magical Materials, would you allow a Twilight, or just a very skilled engineer, to rig up a contraption to be powered by Solar essence using a fancy version of a solar panel?
I realize this is all purely up to a GM's call, as you're are dealing with magical pseudo sunlight rather than actual sunlight, but I'm curious what people think of the idea.
I realize this is all purely up to a GM's call, as you're are dealing with magical pseudo sunlight rather than actual sunlight, but I'm curious what people think of the idea.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Problem with this is, at the very least Orichalcum can be made from gold that was molten by focused sunlight. At least in 2E with thaumaturgy. So a Twilight in modern setting, or just a very skilled engineer, might be inspired to create a novel smelting process with rather exact requirements and materials, and make that into a procedure for making Magical Materials.
- Location
- Texas
How does the sun work in this Modern Exalted setting? How does the converter work?
If you mean a photovoltaic cell that uses light to generate electrical current, then no, electrical current is not solar essence. Yellow light is not solar essence.
If you mean a device that captures and channels the energy emitted specifically by a solar, or by the Unconquered Sun or generic non-union equivalent thereof, yes, potentially. Collecting the excess energy of a solar being and using it to power things that require solar essence seems plausible, if probably not very efficient.
So, then, the question is whether the big bright thing in the sky is actually the metaphysical sun, or just a big ball of gas undergoing fusion, or what. And then, how long do you have to store that essence in order to get a usable amount?
So, if your contraption will produce power from pointing it at a regular fluorescent light, no, its output doesn't count as solar essence. If it is specifically sun-based, it might, but you have to point it at a really intense source of actual solar essence, and it's probably got sharp technical limitations.
Next question is why you need specifically Solar essence instead of just any regular essence, but I'm going to assume the reason is "plot".
@Faraway-R, fair, but I'd rathe not cheat and get orichalcum, defeats the purpose of the question.
@Phigment, nonmagical sun, device designed to capture and channel Solar essence specifically. Originally wanted to design a giant honking laser cannon/portable rail gun that used Solar essence as its power source rather than a battery pack (in a setting as close to the real world as you can get while including Exalts and all that it entails) and decided to apply it on a broader scale.
@Phigment, nonmagical sun, device designed to capture and channel Solar essence specifically. Originally wanted to design a giant honking laser cannon/portable rail gun that used Solar essence as its power source rather than a battery pack (in a setting as close to the real world as you can get while including Exalts and all that it entails) and decided to apply it on a broader scale.
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No, IIRC the process requires lava and sunlight reflected off of specifically designed golden mirrors.
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
Also, do big balls of gas undergoing fusion produce "mysterious radiation" (Essence) that the Twilight can build special arrays to collect?
I'd say it's a legitimate idea, especially if you use my comic book "mysterious radiation" angle. Hell, the Atom's belt was originally powered by a sliver of matter from a neutron star.
- Location
- Texas
It's the sort of thing that I wouldn't veto, but I wouldn't necessarily advantage, either.
It sounds like you want an amazing power source for an awesome gun, and you want to call it a Solar Essence Charge instead of a Portable Arc Reactor or a Zero Point Energy Generator or whatever.
So, I'd just call the power source an artifact of the appropriate level, and one exotic component involved in building it was getting a pure crystalized mote of the Unconquered Sun's essence to use for the Essence Capacitor Core, or whatever.
I wouldn't let you create a totally mundane, mass-producible source of Genuine Sunlight(TM) if Genuine Sunlight(TM) is metaphysically important and hard to come by. If sunlight is just yellow and doesn't mess with ghosts and de-power vampires, then sure, go nuts.