So, it's pretty quiet in the thread right now, so I'll post one of the tidbits I've found that are interesting and germane to Exalted, but also kind of lacking in commentary/discussion on the topic.

Here's a post from the depths of tumblr:

[Once upon a time in a university] some Agriculture students were told by their teacher that a tree flipped upside down would die. So they took an excavator and flipped the tree upside down. And it's still growing. But the branches are now the roots, and the roots are now these super gnarly looking branches. Be afraid.

Here's a picture of what they're talking about.



We now have a grasp of what the fuck Szoreny looks like. It's surprisingly appropriate.
 
No, IIRC Szoreny was a giant tree that got upended and is now a "forest" because the only thing above ground is his roots.
From what I remember, Szoreny was always a forest of silver trees, and the Deliberative's punishment of his world-body resulted in the trees within that world-body being turned upside down.

After all, more tree trunks means more reflective surfaces, more places to hide the unsavory bits, and more decoys to throw in the path of danger.
 
From what I remember, Szoreny was always a forest of silver trees, and the Deliberative's punishment of his world-body resulted in the trees within that world-body being turned upside down.

After all, more tree trunks means more reflective surfaces, more places to hide the unsavory bits, and more decoys to throw in the path of danger.
The flipping was also so nobody but a few very elder Elder Exalted will ever have access to his capital-I Immortality-granting cinnabar blossoms.
 
The flipping was also so nobody but a few very elder Elder Exalted will ever have access to his capital-I Immortality-granting cinnabar blossoms.

Nope, not at all canon. I made that shit up 100% because I wanted to give Szoreny alchemy charms and also an aesthetic that wasn't just "silver everywhere" so I gave him cinnabar too, as that's mercury sulphide and also a very pretty red.

(also, even in my charmset, the "the Exalted wished to hide the secrets of immortality from lesser men" thing is a thing claimed by Szoreny and told to cultists, and if you trust anything Szoreny says you haven't been paying attention holy shit he's a self-aggrandising braggart)
 
The flipping was also so nobody but a few very elder Elder Exalted will ever have access to his capital-I Immortality-granting cinnabar blossoms.
Nope, not at all canon. I made that shit up 100% because I wanted to give Szoreny alchemy charms and also an aesthetic that wasn't just "silver everywhere" so I gave him cinnabar too, as that's mercury sulphide and also a very pretty red.

(also, even in my charmset, the "the Exalted wished to hide the secrets of immortality from lesser men" thing is a thing claimed by Szoreny and told to cultists, and if you trust anything Szoreny says you haven't been paying attention holy shit he's a self-aggrandising braggart)

oh shit are we playing "is this canon or just @EarthScorpion homebrew I internalized" again?

i love that game
 
Fixing 2e Mass Combat

The AOE Problem:
Any solo attack on a mass combat unit cannot deal more levels of damage in step 10 than the higher of [attacker's Essence], [artifact weapon rating], or [attack's radius in feet, multiplied by 2 if the target unit is unordered, divided by 2 for loose formation, or divided by 3 (i.e. radius in yards) for skirmish formation]. Ignore this limit entirely for non-point-source area attacks, such as the spells Death of Obsidian Butterflies and Ivory Razor Forest.

The Pet Rat Problem:
Mass combat rules only apply while a unit of Magnitude 2+ is present and involved. When the largest unit rolled into battle has been reduced to Magnitude 1, mass combat immediately ends. Personal-scale hostilities beyond that point may be considered a separate scene - aftermath of the battle rather than seamless continuation.
Yes, a Magnitude 2 unit can be as few as five people, including the leader, provided they're all heroic. This is deliberate: five against one is the tipping point where individual prowess can be rendered almost irrelevant by tactical coordination, as represented in the personal combat rules by the downsides of being completely surrounded. Before agreeing to fight alongside your circlemates as part of a unit, however, consider that this might leave you in the 'rank and file,' subject to being capriciously maimed or killed by the 'casualties' rules (Ex2e corebook p. 168) if anything goes wrong. Standard perfect parries or dodges do not apply to the Wits+Will roll to avoid becoming a casualty; such powers were already taken into account as part of the mass combat unit's stats, and thus already failed somehow. Similar to falling damage, the only adequate countermeasures are those which explicitly address the issue, or Duck Fate.

Any new problems this would introduce? Any other major issues that need a patch?
 
Fixing 2e Mass Combat

The AOE Problem:
Any solo attack on a mass combat unit cannot deal more levels of damage in step 10 than the higher of [attacker's Essence], [artifact weapon rating], or [attack's radius in feet, multiplied by 2 if the target unit is unordered, divided by 2 for loose formation, or divided by 3 (i.e. radius in yards) for skirmish formation]. Ignore this limit entirely for non-point-source area attacks, such as the spells Death of Obsidian Butterflies and Ivory Razor Forest.

The Pet Rat Problem:
Mass combat rules only apply while a unit of Magnitude 2+ is present and involved. When the largest unit rolled into battle has been reduced to Magnitude 1, mass combat immediately ends. Personal-scale hostilities beyond that point may be considered a separate scene - aftermath of the battle rather than seamless continuation.
Yes, a Magnitude 2 unit can be as few as five people, including the leader, provided they're all heroic. This is deliberate: five against one is the tipping point where individual prowess can be rendered almost irrelevant by tactical coordination, as represented in the personal combat rules by the downsides of being completely surrounded. Before agreeing to fight alongside your circlemates as part of a unit, however, consider that this might leave you in the 'rank and file,' subject to being capriciously maimed or killed by the 'casualties' rules (Ex2e corebook p. 168) if anything goes wrong. Standard perfect parries or dodges do not apply to the Wits+Will roll to avoid becoming a casualty; such powers were already taken into account as part of the mass combat unit's stats, and thus already failed somehow. Similar to falling damage, the only adequate countermeasures are those which explicitly address the issue, or Duck Fate.

Any new problems this would introduce? Any other major issues that need a patch?

Hmm... It's not quite clicking for me just yet, I have to say. Are you trying to make it so a solo character can't target a 2e mass unit with a generic attack and inflict Magnitude loss?

Pet Rat problem... So you're arguing for a clause that says 'When there are no more Mag 2+ units, Mass Combat ends and Normal Combat starts as a new scene..." It's not bad, but I feel like it could be more elegant.

I think you'd want to really go over all of Mass Combat and start itemizing it's failure and success points , analyzing it for intention and such- Like as far as I understand it, units don't change behaviors unless given an order by a commander- and the point of Relays is to litereally spend actions spending orders from one unit to another- to get around blocked line of sight.
 
The biggest problem I have with massed combat as of 2e is it doesn't let you actually be a cool super commander leading his army to victory through genius tactics. By making it so units are just the equipment of their commander they boil down The basic system of mass combat in 2e gives you a +5 Hat of Peasant Levies not an army.
 
The biggest problem I have with massed combat as of 2e is it doesn't let you actually be a cool super commander leading his army to victory through genius tactics. By making it so units are just the equipment of their commander they boil down The basic system of mass combat in 2e gives you a +5 Hat of Peasant Levies not an army.
It does more than you think, but there's a lot of conveyance problems.

Like, if you enforce limitations on unit size, the 'you wear them' problem is greatly reduced. Multiple units have their own perks/challenges. It's hard to explain succinctly. Like I said just previously, line of sight and communication are important.

But at the absolute minimum, if your ST is just pitting block of dudes vs block of dudes, you're not getting the most out of Mass Combat.
 
I think there are a lot of problems with the "army as equipment" abstraction, but think that a good implementation could have saved it.

If an army is something you wear that gives you boosts, it should also restrain you in other ways. If you're commanding a rag tag group of peasants then you can't run around the battlefield at any speed, you can't really press the advantage in a lot of situations (without abandoning your troops), and you need to be constantly coordinating. I think if the basic system operated on some kind of "you get X bonuses based on Y characteristics of your army, but also A restrictions based on B characteristics of your army, magnitude differences are capped fairly low, and your army doesn't function as an extra health bar: you can always be directly targeted (with a penalty as with any other source of cover) by valid attacks" it might not be the cleanest thing, but it would allow for much more interesting gameplay. Commander Charms about being the greatest tactician would let you do things like substitute your Wits+War for Dex+Melee when making attack rolls at the head of an army, that kind of thing, while Commander Charms about leading from the front would let you personally get stat boosts, and remove some of the penalties of leading an army.
 
It does more than you think, but there's a lot of conveyance problems.
I'll admit I have limited experience on this but playing 2e armies never felt like commanding armies. The basic mechanical conceit that you wear the army holds back a lot of other stuff that 2e did rather brilliantly. Troops breaking under supernatural assault, communication mattering a lot, and champion duels are all pretty damn neat mechanics but it gets bogged down by overly associating the army with its commander.

I can see what they were going for, Achilles and Hector come to blows as their armies clash around them, the Kurukshetra War is fought by heroes at heads of great armies, three hundred Spartans led by King Leonidas immortalize themselves as the ideal for Greek soldiers in a doomed stalling action against the Persian Empire. They want to have heroic warfare.

At the same time they want to make this fit into the gritty feeling of Exalted where armies break under supernatural assaults, people can't just shout "Hold the line!" and be heard over the roar of combat, and your plucky slave revolt gets slaughtered and tortured to death by the Realm. They want to have their cake and also have it be gritty and unpleasant so you want to make a better cake.

In my opinion it doesn't work great for either. Heroic warfare shouldn't have armies that break down and run the fuck away when the enemy powers up and reality starts screaming. Meanwhile a more gritty warfare model shouldn't be mechanically determined by their commanders hitting each other with sticks.
 
I'll admit I have limited experience on this but playing 2e armies never felt like commanding armies. The basic mechanical conceit that you wear the army holds back a lot of other stuff that 2e did rather brilliantly. Troops breaking under supernatural assault, communication mattering a lot, and champion duels are all pretty damn neat mechanics but it gets bogged down by overly associating the army with its commander.

I can see what they were going for, Achilles and Hector come to blows as their armies clash around them, the Kurukshetra War is fought by heroes at heads of great armies, three hundred Spartans led by King Leonidas immortalize themselves as the ideal for Greek soldiers in a doomed stalling action against the Persian Empire. They want to have heroic warfare.

At the same time they want to make this fit into the gritty feeling of Exalted where armies break under supernatural assaults, people can't just shout "Hold the line!" and be heard over the roar of combat, and your plucky slave revolt gets slaughtered and tortured to death by the Realm. They want to have their cake and also have it be gritty and unpleasant so you want to make a better cake.

In my opinion it doesn't work great for either. Heroic warfare shouldn't have armies that break down and run the fuck away when the enemy powers up and reality starts screaming. Meanwhile a more gritty warfare model shouldn't be mechanically determined by their commanders hitting each other with sticks.

Well, you're running into the problem that 2e models Mortals first and then layers supernaturals on top of that. Mortal v Mortal play usually holds up rather well in Storyteller. Exalted play deliberately up-ends the balance to create those big sweeping changes as a borgstromatic statement. So yes, when you have your demigod leading the army, the stronger side forces the weaker side to rout.

Like to build on your point, the sidebar in 2e core on page 160 "Magnitude and Choice" outlines that honestly Mass Combat should have looked superficially similar to Wh40k or similar games, where you have 4-5 specialized units across a fairly small slice of battlefield.

One of the more awkward but fun mechanics is Special Characters, in that basically acts on a given Tick, and any attached Special Character can act among the listed options at the same time. Then they 'fall out of sync' based on their speed before using Guard Actions to sync back up. The other factor is that Special Characters and the associated rules against directly targeting them exist to mitigate the hyper-lethality of inflated mass combat numbers. So Heroes can attack adjacent units as if they were Solo units (so no combat bonuses), and split off to create new units. Alternatively a Hero can 'take point' for the close combat attacks instead of the Commander. Sorcerers do the same for both unit and independent Ranged attacks, including you guessed it, sorcery.

So one kind of optimal strategy is to load aunit up with spare special characters to maximize on-tick actions.

I want to mention something- implicitly, mass units do not act as fast as characters in regular combat. Most Mass Actions have a speed trait, so you can't do them reflexively without a Charm, which means that without a commander or a competent one, you have to rely on the actual General to send orders via relays to make your units do stuff- alternatively the general is in a position to 'beat' the incoming threat with an order of their own.

Like, a problem of Conveyance in the 2e rules is that they don't really go into a lot of detail explaining how to run multiple unit combat.
 
The problem, as always, is that literally every subsystem in 2E (possibly excepting the travel time table) has no redeeming value. There's just no point to "fixing" it. Either you should replace it wholesale with something that actually works as a game or RPG system, or you should just not use mechanics at all other than maybe an opposed roll (that you will win, come on) so that the clatter of dice against the table lends weight to your narration of how you won.
 
Hmm... It's not quite clicking for me just yet, I have to say. Are you trying to make it so a solo character can't target a 2e mass unit with a generic attack and inflict Magnitude loss?

Pet Rat problem... So you're arguing for a clause that says 'When there are no more Mag 2+ units, Mass Combat ends and Normal Combat starts as a new scene..." It's not bad, but I feel like it could be more elegant.

I think you'd want to really go over all of Mass Combat and start itemizing it's failure and success points , analyzing it for intention and such- Like as far as I understand it, units don't change behaviors unless given an order by a commander- and the point of Relays is to litereally spend actions spending orders from one unit to another- to get around blocked line of sight.
A sufficiently skilled solo character should be able to inflict Magnitude loss, but only with either the cumulative effect of several attacks (with fewer being required if they have, or personally are, a mighty magic weapon), or the splash of an area attack which can plausibly disable several non-adjacent soldiers at once, not so easily by some alpha strike that (in personal combat) would obliterate any individual soldier but leave the target's surroundings unscathed.

On the 'pet rat' point, yes, that's it exactly, and I agree this needs further refinement.

Many of those flaws have already been analyzed elsewhere, seemingly most often in the context of "...and that's why the entire system is irredeemable garbage," an attitude which I am rather sick of. My intent here is to start a conversation about identifying and refining relatively small changes which could be made in order for the system to achieve it's original design goals (rather than dismissing the goals themselves as unsound and starting over), first at all, then elegantly, and ultimately to organize the revised system for presentation in a format which is both easy to learn and to reference in play.

Game design is, in a very real sense, a type of software design. The best stuff in 1e came from people who knew computer science. When a popular piece of copyrighted software is being mismanaged by it's nominal owners, the morally correct and strategically efficacious response is to supplant it with open-source development, where anyone can go solve a problem, and reliably get that solution canonized just by submitting it for peer review without jumping through extra hoops, and many users contribute their time and energy to do that sort of thing primarily because having the problem definitively solved is it's own reward. This has, as I understand it, already been done to varying extents with Revlid's mutation rules and the Terrifying Argent Witches project and Ink Monkeys and so on, but there's no equivalent of github, or the OGL/d20 SRD, or other nucleus for comprehensive organization and revision.
 
The problem, as always, is that literally every subsystem in 2E (possibly excepting the travel time table) has no redeeming value. There's just no point to "fixing" it. Either you should replace it wholesale with something that actually works as a game or RPG system, or you should just not use mechanics at all other than maybe an opposed roll (that you will win, come on) so that the clatter of dice against the table lends weight to your narration of how you won.
Just for one example, thaumaturgy - as in the specific lists of procedures in Oadenol's Codex, on pages 129-144 - says a lot about what sorts of magic are potentially accessible to ordinary people, which in turn says a lot about the setting. Even if the mechanics as written are an unusable train wreck, it should be possible to build better mechanics which convey that magic system's non-obvious distinctive features, with all (or most) of the same in-setting effects.

For example, the Art of Warding and Exorcism. If you give a sufficiently skilled thaumaturge three hours to work, and an unlimited budget, they can ward a building against basically any known type of creature, to the point where not only will ranged weapons and UMI and so on be blocked, the attacker might be injured in the attempt. Sure, countermagic can break it, but not everyone is a sorcerer, and even if one IS present, that's 20 fewer motes they have available for ruining your day in any number of other ways. This has tactical and narrative implications: spotting an oncoming army of blood apes, successfully identifying them AS blood apes, and giving the town's wise-woman or amulet-carver or whatever a few hours of warning about that army's approach, means magical fortifications can potentially be put in place. That makes scouts meaningful, makes educating those scouts (so they can just shout "erymanthoi!" on the run, instead of needing to waste valuable time on a Q&A session trying to recall and explain relevant details to somebody who does have Occult 3+) a potentially useful investment, makes the Bureaucracy work of getting those thaumaturges the materials they need in a timely manner at least potentially meaningful, and on down the line.

Y'know the one example of a usable Bureaucracy system in the corebook? Evaluate Goods. Difficulty 1 lets you tell the difference between, say, diamonds and high-grade quartz, or exotic medical herbs vs. weeds from the local swamp. Difficulty equal to the Resources value lets you precisely evaluate color and clarity of diamonds, or whether herbs have been processed correctly vs. spoiled in some subtle way. If getting scammed with substandard materials means the thaumaturgy depending on those materials won't work, those fine distinctions can very quickly become a matter of life and death for the sort of people whose only available 'paranoia combo' involves stone bunkers and protective diagrams drawn with salt.
 
Many of those flaws have already been analyzed elsewhere, seemingly most often in the context of "...and that's why the entire system is irredeemable garbage,"

This is not accurate and in fact is self-contradictory.

For example, the two most common complaints (which are dual to each other), lethality and perfects, are commonly cited as individual flaws that can be fixed, and if fixed would produce a system worth using. In fact they are almost universally cited in this way.

But the truth is, that even if they were fixed, and you produced the system "as intended", you would have a game that was not worth the time you would spend playing it. This is not because of the presence of flaws; this is because no one ever put anything worth playing into it in the first place.

The problem is that at its core combat is just life bars with target selection, per-attack (and largely one-dimensional) resource investment, and an anemic* movement system. This would have been lame even in 1971; for 2006 it's unforgivable.

*as actually played; per RAW (which no one uses), it's literally unplayable without trigonometry.

Just for one example, thaumaturgy - as in the specific lists of procedures in Oadenol's Codex, on pages 129-144 - says a lot about what sorts of magic are potentially accessible to ordinary people, which in turn says a lot about the setting. Even if the mechanics as written are an unusable train wreck, it should be possible to build better mechanics which convey that magic system's non-obvious distinctive features, with all (or most) of the same in-setting effects.

Borgstromancy, for all its fun, is a total failure of game design. I am a huge fan of Jenna Moran, and she's done some amazing game design work - but this was a failure.

Game mechanics have to be designed, first and primarily, to be used rather than to be read.
 
One of the more awkward but fun mechanics is Special Characters, in that basically acts on a given Tick, and any attached Special Character can act among the listed options at the same time. Then they 'fall out of sync' based on their speed before using Guard Actions to sync back up. The other factor is that Special Characters and the associated rules against directly targeting them exist to mitigate the hyper-lethality of inflated mass combat numbers. So Heroes can attack adjacent units as if they were Solo units (so no combat bonuses), and split off to create new units. Alternatively a Hero can 'take point' for the close combat attacks instead of the Commander. Sorcerers do the same for both unit and independent Ranged attacks, including you guessed it, sorcery.

So one kind of optimal strategy is to load aunit up with spare special characters to maximize on-tick actions.
Actually, it's suggested in Mass Combat Rules (and supported by them) that a Sorcerer status can be assigned as a form of "protective custody" for a valuable individual. This ensures that they don't directly participate in battle and aren't subject to sudden death due to casualties. So a Magnitude 2 unit (5 Heroics) can easily be narrated as "a VIP special character and his personal bodyguards".

Just for one example, thaumaturgy - as in the specific lists of procedures in Oadenol's Codex, on pages 129-144 - says a lot about what sorts of magic are potentially accessible to ordinary people, which in turn says a lot about the setting. Even if the mechanics as written are an unusable train wreck, it should be possible to build better mechanics which convey that magic system's non-obvious distinctive features, with all (or most) of the same in-setting effects.

For example, the Art of Warding and Exorcism. If you give a sufficiently skilled thaumaturge three hours to work, and an unlimited budget, they can ward a building against basically any known type of creature, to the point where not only will ranged weapons and UMI and so on be blocked, the attacker might be injured in the attempt. Sure, countermagic can break it, but not everyone is a sorcerer, and even if one IS present, that's 20 fewer motes they have available for ruining your day in any number of other ways. This has tactical and narrative implications: spotting an oncoming army of blood apes, successfully identifying them AS blood apes, and giving the town's wise-woman or amulet-carver or whatever a few hours of warning about that army's approach, means magical fortifications can potentially be put in place. That makes scouts meaningful, makes educating those scouts (so they can just shout "erymanthoi!" on the run, instead of needing to waste valuable time on a Q&A session trying to recall and explain relevant details to somebody who does have Occult 3+) a potentially useful investment, makes the Bureaucracy work of getting those thaumaturges the materials they need in a timely manner at least potentially meaningful, and on down the line.

Y'know the one example of a usable Bureaucracy system in the corebook? Evaluate Goods. Difficulty 1 lets you tell the difference between, say, diamonds and high-grade quartz, or exotic medical herbs vs. weeds from the local swamp. Difficulty equal to the Resources value lets you precisely evaluate color and clarity of diamonds, or whether herbs have been processed correctly vs. spoiled in some subtle way. If getting scammed with substandard materials means the thaumaturgy depending on those materials won't work, those fine distinctions can very quickly become a matter of life and death for the sort of people whose only available 'paranoia combo' involves stone bunkers and protective diagrams drawn with salt.
Another FUN thaumaturgic branch is Art of Alchemy. It's full of potions that allow the recipient, a Joe Average extra to act as a Heroic Mortal, complete with Health Levels, stunts and the like. Or boost them in other fun ways, such as improving Valor, auto-succeeding on Morale rolls (something that your ordinary mortal soldiers have to do every time they try to confont an Exalt or a similar opponent), or becoming that much more appealing in social situations.
 
Well, you're running into the problem that 2e models Mortals first and then layers supernaturals on top of that. Mortal v Mortal play usually holds up rather well in Storyteller. Exalted play deliberately up-ends the balance to create those big sweeping changes as a borgstromatic statement. So yes, when you have your demigod leading the army, the stronger side forces the weaker side to rout.
My argument is that it's kind of garbage at modeling mortal conflicts. The individual combat ability of commanders matters way to much in the context of them actually fighting other units. All other things being equal one commander being slightly stronger and a better swordsman shouldn't really matter. Under this system it matters a frankly ridiculous amount. The enemy commander being a great swordsman compared to your somewhat novice general should not turn the tides of a battle involving hundreds of people on its own. It will, Storytellers dice system ensures that even such a small difference will add up fast all other things being equal.

This would be okay if Exalted was about powerful commanders meeting in the field and bashing each others skulls in with their army cheerleaders in the background providing some small bonuses. Heroic champion warfare basically. But they aren't, the armies are given so many rules and realistic concerns that the kind of warfare commander fights proposes is just kind of ridiculous next to all that You can't really get the grounded feeling of desperate battle when being a good swordsman with some tactical training suddenly lets you beat off equally equipped and strong forces that significantly outnumber your own led by someone with just as much tactical training.

Exalted 2e isn't really good at heroic narrative warfare or gritty battles where men drop their shields and run. This only gets worse when it has to twist into knots trying to justify how personal scale charms suddenly turn into massed warfare applicable ones.
 
This is not accurate and in fact is self-contradictory.

For example, the two most common complaints (which are dual to each other), lethality and perfects, are commonly cited as individual flaws that can be fixed, and if fixed would produce a system worth using. In fact they are almost universally cited in this way.

But the truth is, that even if they were fixed, and you produced the system "as intended", you would have a game that was not worth the time you would spend playing it. This is not because of the presence of flaws; this is because no one ever put anything worth playing into it in the first place.

The problem is that at its core combat is just life bars with target selection, per-attack (and largely one-dimensional) resource investment, and an anemic* movement system. This would have been lame even in 1971; for 2006 it's unforgivable.

*as actually played; per RAW (which no one uses), it's literally unplayable without trigonometry.



Borgstromancy, for all its fun, is a total failure of game design. I am a huge fan of Jenna Moran, and she's done some amazing game design work - but this was a failure.

Game mechanics have to be designed, first and primarily, to be used rather than to be read.
I agree that game mechanics must be usable, lest they fail to truly be game mechanics at all, just as a piece of pseudocode that fails to compile cannot be considered a finished program. If you go back and read my very recent posts, you will see that I have already said this. Likewise I am in agreement that Exalted 2e was a failure of game design. If I thought it was in any directly useful sense a success, why would I be proposing a vast endeavor to rework it from the ground up?

The underlying issue where we actually disagree seems to be a matter of the philosophical difference between art and engineering. When an art project fails, it becomes psychological quicksand, whole and indivisible yet unclean, and must be swept aside in it's entirety before the creator can properly move on to something new. When an engineering project fails, it is vitally important that the specific point of failure be identified, the nature of the breakdown analyzed, and everything thoroughly documented, so iterative refinement can proceed. A single small adjustment might be sufficient to resolve any given bug, no matter how catastrophic the results, and throwing out functional subsystems by association means wasting effort on 'reinventing the wheel.'

There is also the question of what the actual design goals are. I don't think Exalted combat should be a minigame that's consistently fun in and of itself. AWKWARD ZOMBIE A Dawn-caste tearing into unsupported mortals is just Anakin Skywalker massacring the Sand People... or the trainee jedi. Paranoia combos mean that mature exalts can't be murdered in their sleep, or even slain in direct confrontation at all without a horrible grind of mote attrition. So, any given celestial exalt with combat training is extremely hard to kill. Good strategy, then, means either figuring out how to get what you want without killing them, either by some mutually beneficial arrangement, or by targeting your enemy's weakest point instead of the strongest. Erfworld Archives - The Battle for Gobwin Knob - Episode 124 If murder is somehow the only feasible option, don't just charge in like Leroy Jenkins and expect that to end well.

The manga Assassination Classroom is all about a group of heroic mortals - and, later, exalt-like entities - trying to slay the equivalent of a paranoia-combo'd Adorjani 3CD before his task binding wears off. Most of the work is research and setup, preparing an ideal ambush position and softening up the target by noncombative means, rather than dynamic battle tactics; once join battle has been rolled, there are hardly any decisions left to make. Lot like how the Usurpation probably went, though sidereal divination and probability manipulation makes it easier to rule out unworkable plans without needing to forfeit the element of surprise by actually attempting them.

Capturing someone alive Sunday 8 February 2009 , or breaking determined opposition without a fight UNICORN JELLY by Jennifer Diane Reitz in such a way that there's enough left of them to put back together afterward, should be more difficult - and more rewarding - for the same basic reasons it is in real life. Supernatural shortcuts can make that kind of thing easier, but even when you've got all the charms needed to apply overwhelming force with arbitrary precision, when you can win the fight trivially on whatever terms you choose, there's still some very important choices to be made. Why are you fighting in the first place? Keychain of Creation - Updates Monday and Friday What is the goal? Point being to actually think about underlying conflicts in-character, play a role, not merely check with the dice gods to calculate who turned out to be a wise and just king.

In third edition, all that random variability, incomplete information, and resultant collateral damage just doesn't happen, mainly due to the dissociated mechanics separating withering and decisive attacks. In that paradigm, an effect like Path of the Arbiter Form's perfect defense against unintended harm being caused by your own actions would be silly and largely redundant, instead of a hard-earned license to rescue hostages using a flamethrower.

On the subject of the functionality of yard-per-second movement rules, have you ever tried plugging in a tactical map with one-yard hexes from GURPS, or 25mm miniatures and prefabricated terrain pieces from tabletop wargames such as Warhammer 40k? Please try to contribute something constructive.
 
For example, the Art of Warding and Exorcism. If you give a sufficiently skilled thaumaturge three hours to work, and an unlimited budget, they can ward a building against basically any known type of creature, to the point where not only will ranged weapons and UMI and so on be blocked, the attacker might be injured in the attempt. Sure, countermagic can break it, but not everyone is a sorcerer, and even if one IS present, that's 20 fewer motes they have available for ruining your day in any number of other ways. This has tactical and narrative implications: spotting an oncoming army of blood apes, successfully identifying them AS blood apes, and giving the town's wise-woman or amulet-carver or whatever a few hours of warning about that army's approach, means magical fortifications can potentially be put in place. That makes scouts meaningful, makes educating those scouts (so they can just shout "erymanthoi!" on the run, instead of needing to waste valuable time on a Q&A session trying to recall and explain relevant details to somebody who does have Occult 3+) a potentially useful investment, makes the Bureaucracy work of getting those thaumaturges the materials they need in a timely manner at least potentially meaningful, and on down the line.

Y'know the one example of a usable Bureaucracy system in the corebook? Evaluate Goods. Difficulty 1 lets you tell the difference between, say, diamonds and high-grade quartz, or exotic medical herbs vs. weeds from the local swamp. Difficulty equal to the Resources value lets you precisely evaluate color and clarity of diamonds, or whether herbs have been processed correctly vs. spoiled in some subtle way. If getting scammed with substandard materials means the thaumaturgy depending on those materials won't work, those fine distinctions can very quickly become a matter of life and death for the sort of people whose only available 'paranoia combo' involves stone bunkers and protective diagrams drawn with salt.
Do you refer to Ward against (Creature) and Greater Ward against (Creature)?
 
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