Rajvik_wolfboy
Wolf amongst the stars.
- Location
- Florida
but it is also considered more polite
Distance Learning for fun and profit...
- Thread starter mp3.1415player
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- worm
- Location
- Ylisse
Yes but it makes us look better and them more like the assholes they are when they react badly to a polite request.
- Location
- Beyond the Unknowable Veil
This is a fun thought, but there isn't enough exploding to be Mythbusters.
FaerieKnight79
Verified Pixie
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- The Internet
But there is manic SCIENCE, as evidenced by the hasty construction of a floating gizmo after scribbling some equations on a board.
Lycanthromancer
The Arcane Fuzz
- Location
- USA
No crazy white hair, glasses, and lab coat, though. Those are essential. Also cackling, lightning storms, and a hunchbacked assistant named Igor.
FaerieKnight79
Verified Pixie
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- The Internet
That's mad science, not manic science. But why do you need a hunchbacked assistant named Ayegor?
Lycanthromancer
The Arcane Fuzz
- Location
- USA
FaerieKnight79
Verified Pixie
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- The Internet
*sighs*
Kids these days have no respect for the classics.
*blinks*
Crap, not again. Complaining about 'kids these days', last week I actually yelled at someone to get off my lawn. Finding myself starting diatribes with "back in my day"... Shit! I've gotten old, even worse... I've become a cliche!
Kids these days have no respect for the classics.
*blinks*
Crap, not again. Complaining about 'kids these days', last week I actually yelled at someone to get off my lawn. Finding myself starting diatribes with "back in my day"... Shit! I've gotten old, even worse... I've become a cliche!
Lycanthromancer
The Arcane Fuzz
- Location
- USA
I'm pretty sure you were referencing Young Frahnkenschteen, but it's been decades since I watched it, and I only saw parts.
This is why I make a point of listening to radio stations that forcibly expose me to new music.
I may get old, but by god, I will _never_ complain about "kids' music these days".
Arimai
Curmudgeon
That research allowed the shrimp aquaculture industry to save and make hundreds of millions in efficiency, cut down on pollution, reduce the use of chemicals. More importantly it generates an order of magnitude more in taxes and intangibles than it cost to study.
It was in layman's terms a study in how to industrially farm shrimp, in the best balance of organic techniques, cost and product quality. Or the most, better, healthiest, hippy green, farmed shrimp in the cheapest way possible
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DoctorNobody
The Doctor is In(sane).
I've been thinking that since subspace allows for FTL signals... The alien show may not have been made or transmitted yet... And it will be produced by the descendants of aliens who uplifted themselves after receiving an educational transmission from a strange alien race of furless, bipedal apes.
Now I'm picturing a shrimp driving a tractor, chewing on a piece hay all the while.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
its less asholeish than fuck off, but it kind of sends the same message
FaerieKnight79
Verified Pixie
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- The Internet
Somehow, I very much doubt that subspace allows you to recieve a transmission before it was transmitted. Faster Then Light doesn't exactly mean ignores causality.
My understanding of relativity says that it does mean that, but then relativity doesn't allow FTL, which means actual FTL implies that relativity has been superceded.
Hopefully not by something as weird compared to relativity as relativity was compared to Newton, but we probably won't be that lucky.
Sandy River DL
(Verified Destroyer Leader)
- Location
- Lake Michigan
- Pronouns
- Her/She
Realspace FTL means ignoring causality, but you can get around that by using compressed dimensional space such as subspace. Or space-time planes with much higher causal velocity like hyperspace.
FaerieKnight79
Verified Pixie
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- The Internet
Actually, no. As I understand it relitivity says that the closer you are to traveling at the speed of light, the slower time appears to move. If I was to (somehow) travel at the speed of light, for me it might have only been three days, but it might have been 300 years to the rest of the universe. Traveling at the speed of light however wouldn't allow me to arrive someplace before I left my original location. And why would you even think you're ignoring causality by traveling faster then lightspeed? The point of FTL travel is to get to a destination in days/weeks without experiencing the time dielation effect of traveling at light speed, but time is still passing normally. Events are still progressing normally.
The reason it's said you're seeing the past when you look into the sky is not because there's actual time travel. It's because the light of the sun and other stars takes time to travel, thus by the time you can see it conditions could have changed. If you could snuff out all light from the sun at it's source, it would take 8 or so minutes (I think) before anyone on Earth would notice. But that wouldn't somehow mean the sun's light being blocked didn't occur for 8 minutes. Nor would an FTL drive allow you to go to the sun and arrive before the blocking effect had been put into place, unless you had left before it was put into place too.
It's mostly a case where FTL looks like it violates causality from the perspective of someone on the destination end - and even then, only if they're able to detect both the start destination and the arrival destination. IIRC, the whole crux of the matter is that you can pull stuff like the Picard Maneuver from Star Trek - ie., move to a destination fast enough that the light reflecting off of you at your old position hasn't stopped arriving at the destination yet, thus making it look like you're in two places at once.
If i was an observer watching an FTL ship come towards me (that is, i am in front of it at the destination), and i could see along its entire course from origin to destination, i would see roughly the following, assuming it's staying in our universe/realspace and not teleporting.
first, the ship at it's origin moving along, preparing for FTL.
i would see the ship appear at the destination, followed by an image of the ship heading backwards along it's trajectory. i am continuing to observe the origin ship preparing.
the travelling image would then intersect with the old image of the ship at the moment it makes the transition and both vanish.
for teleporters and extra-universe movement, just cut out the travelling image. you' still have a period of time in which it is possible to observe the ship at both destination and origin, but the ship only ever actually exists in one location.
if you were behind it at the origin, you wouldn't get a double image, you'd just see the ship start travelling much faster until it arrives.
haven't worked out what other perspectives would see, though i believe it would be similar to what you would hear as something supersonic passed you.
first, the ship at it's origin moving along, preparing for FTL.
i would see the ship appear at the destination, followed by an image of the ship heading backwards along it's trajectory. i am continuing to observe the origin ship preparing.
the travelling image would then intersect with the old image of the ship at the moment it makes the transition and both vanish.
for teleporters and extra-universe movement, just cut out the travelling image. you' still have a period of time in which it is possible to observe the ship at both destination and origin, but the ship only ever actually exists in one location.
if you were behind it at the origin, you wouldn't get a double image, you'd just see the ship start travelling much faster until it arrives.
haven't worked out what other perspectives would see, though i believe it would be similar to what you would hear as something supersonic passed you.
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FaerieKnight79
Verified Pixie
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- The Internet
Exactly, FTL isn't going to violate causality. It might look that way to an outside observer, but that's merely an illusion caused by the fact light has to travel to reach your eye.
diesel366
To infect the stars with devastation
- Location
- Australia
FTL is time travel under Special Relativity - it deos not matter if you accelerate past c or use spaital compression, it amounts to the same thing due to shifting reference frames. If you were to go to one star and then return at FTL speeds, you would arrive before you departed. You can chose two, relativity, FTL, or causality. There are many publications online dealing with how this works and that's the most i can say without making a mess of it.
Even if you can't explain your position without "making a mess of it", you can at least provide cited sources for your position.
FaerieKnight79
Verified Pixie
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Nope, you wouldn't "arrive before you departed". To a distant observer, it might appear like you did. But you would not actually be in two different locations. Traveling at any speed isn't going to somehow make you reverse the flow of time. Slow down your personal perception of time, maybe. But if you're traveling faster then light, that just means you'll arrive at your destination before the light that was at your point of origin does. That's all, no breaking of causality. You just arrived before the light managed to travel the same distance. Make the same trip back at FTL speeds, and you again merely arrive before the light it's self does.
Example:
I am standing on an island in the middle of a lake. By some miricle I can achieve FTL travel, which allows me to go to a star in Alpha Centari in the span of a couple seconds. If I had a powerful enough telescope, I still wouldn't be able to see even an afterimage of myself standing on that island. Why? Because the distance is so vast, that what I can currently see from my position in Alpha Centari is Earth as it was thousands of years ago. Maybe millions of years ago.
I then make the trip back to the same island I started on using the same FTL method and arrive five feet away from where I had been standing initially. I wont meet myself, because the light on the island doesn't take minutes or even hours to travel a couple feet. It's a short enough distance that there's real time updating of what I see vs what is actually there. I didn't arrive before I left the island the first time either, because once again I didn't travel backwards in time. Nor am I going to see even the after image of myself standing in Alpha Centari, because once again it'll take too long for light to travel to me. To a far distant observer capable of seeing both locations at once, it might appear that I was in two places at the same time. But then again, by the time this hypothetical observer can see the event I'd be long dead anyway.
The famous "breaks causality" thing as I recall is specifically dealing with two vessels which are traveling at different factions of C that also have an instantanious means of communication, thus both being affected by relativity differently.
Example:
I am standing on an island in the middle of a lake. By some miricle I can achieve FTL travel, which allows me to go to a star in Alpha Centari in the span of a couple seconds. If I had a powerful enough telescope, I still wouldn't be able to see even an afterimage of myself standing on that island. Why? Because the distance is so vast, that what I can currently see from my position in Alpha Centari is Earth as it was thousands of years ago. Maybe millions of years ago.
I then make the trip back to the same island I started on using the same FTL method and arrive five feet away from where I had been standing initially. I wont meet myself, because the light on the island doesn't take minutes or even hours to travel a couple feet. It's a short enough distance that there's real time updating of what I see vs what is actually there. I didn't arrive before I left the island the first time either, because once again I didn't travel backwards in time. Nor am I going to see even the after image of myself standing in Alpha Centari, because once again it'll take too long for light to travel to me. To a far distant observer capable of seeing both locations at once, it might appear that I was in two places at the same time. But then again, by the time this hypothetical observer can see the event I'd be long dead anyway.
The famous "breaks causality" thing as I recall is specifically dealing with two vessels which are traveling at different factions of C that also have an instantanious means of communication, thus both being affected by relativity differently.
diesel366
To infect the stars with devastation
- Location
- Australia
True, and i should have but no one else was doing so either. In any case, here are some things that i looked up that explain it. I will fully admit that i could have misunderstood something, but everything i have read and listen
to show that FTL involves shifting reference frames and can/will cause alteration of order of events. Also, I'm going going to reply any more as i'm worried about a derail.
Krsnik
faerie princess
- Pronouns
- She/Fae
Yes, faster than light signals can lead to communication backwards in time. See this wikipedia page for details on the math.
Note that here the endpoints are moving with respect to each other; I'm unsure if you can still make it work with both endpoints stationary.
Edit: Note also that at large distances, everything is moving apart from everything else (at fairly high speed) due to the expansion of the universe. Thus, ftl signals between two planets in different galaxies can result in a reply arriving before the original message is send.
Note that here the endpoints are moving with respect to each other; I'm unsure if you can still make it work with both endpoints stationary.
Edit: Note also that at large distances, everything is moving apart from everything else (at fairly high speed) due to the expansion of the universe. Thus, ftl signals between two planets in different galaxies can result in a reply arriving before the original message is send.
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