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Anakin Quest

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Why are some of you voting to dissolve the Republic, rather than reform it? While it is no doubt corrupt and inefficient as it is, would those seperate realms that splinter off it truly be better? They would no doubt still be corrupt and inefficient, although perhaps to a lesser scale, with the very large downside of conflicts inevitably erupting between them. Then there are the potential species conflicts that can erupt as well. I honestly just can't see the Republic even in the state it's currently in being worse than the successor states.

It just seems incredibly short sighted to have the goal be to dissolve it, rather than taking the philosophy of the Trade Federation (apply outside pressure to get the Senate moving) in an attempt to reform it. We know Palpatine did it with the Empire although it was with authoritarianism which couldn't occur, but you should still be capable of simplifying the processes.
 
Iandude0 said:
And he has no reason to take Anakin, an inexperienced and still relatively untrained basically padawan to a lava planet that is extremely dangerous.

Just because he knows things are there doesn't mean he has any reason to actually do so.
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Actually when he gets a year or two as a padawan, there's various examples of masters and students exploring ruins ams other areas.

I hope after a turn or two on serreno we go and do so.
 
Neptune said:
Why are some of you voting to dissolve the Republic, rather than reform it? While it is no doubt corrupt and inefficient as it is, would those seperate realms that splinter off it truly be better? They would no doubt still be corrupt and inefficient, although perhaps to a lesser scale, with the very large downside of conflicts inevitably erupting between them. Then there are the potential species conflicts that can erupt as well. I honestly just can't see the Republic even in the state it's currently in being worse than the successor states.

It just seems incredibly short sighted to have the goal be to dissolve it, rather than taking the philosophy of the Trade Federation (apply outside pressure to get the Senate moving) in an attempt to reform it. We know Palpatine did it with the Empire although it was with authoritarianism which couldn't occur, but you should still be capable of simplifying the processes.
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Whatever you voted for, you have my vote too.

[X] Neptune
 
Neptune said:
Why are some of you voting to dissolve the Republic, rather than reform it? While it is no doubt corrupt and inefficient as it is, would those seperate realms that splinter off it truly be better? They would no doubt still be corrupt and inefficient, although perhaps to a lesser scale, with the very large downside of conflicts inevitably erupting between them. Then there are the potential species conflicts that can erupt as well. I honestly just can't see the Republic even in the state it's currently in being worse than the successor states.

It just seems incredibly short sighted to have the goal be to dissolve it, rather than taking the philosophy of the Trade Federation (apply outside pressure to get the Senate moving) in an attempt to reform it. We know Palpatine did it with the Empire although it was with authoritarianism which couldn't occur, but you should still be capable of simplifying the processes.
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I voted for the separatists because we could have a separatist anakin and I think this is the only story on the internet with that in the story.
 
Neptune said:
Why are some of you voting to dissolve the Republic, rather than reform it? While it is no doubt corrupt and inefficient as it is, would those seperate realms that splinter off it truly be better? They would no doubt still be corrupt and inefficient, although perhaps to a lesser scale, with the very large downside of conflicts inevitably erupting between them. Then there are the potential species conflicts that can erupt as well. I honestly just can't see the Republic even in the state it's currently in being worse than the successor states.

It just seems incredibly short sighted to have the goal be to dissolve it, rather than taking the philosophy of the Trade Federation (apply outside pressure to get the Senate moving) in an attempt to reform it. We know Palpatine did it with the Empire although it was with authoritarianism which couldn't occur, but you should still be capable of simplifying the processes.
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Dissolving the Republic will lead to anarchy in many parts of the galaxy and those independent states that arise with varying values will inevitable get into conflict with each other. I fully recognize that the plan will be in some ways worse than the current Republic. The problem is Sidious is already got his claws in the Republic and that even without him the place is so massive any hope of real success in changing it is naive. Even when it was made into the Empire its corruption just changed forms to suit Sidious.

The end goal though of seperating the galaxy into independent states is so that the fat can be cut way enough that some people relearn how to govern multiple worlds and meet the values put into place. As things stablize these states will expand their borders putting order to the lawless territories, some border disputes as well, till eventually the only path to go will be recreating the Republic except this time without all deep seated corruption passed down over its thousands of years.

As the Republic current state it is a lie so better to rip it away so people can see the true horror of the galaxy.
 
hcvquizibo said:
AllRoadsLeadTo at least try to remain in character Anakin has no reasonable excuse to know that also try to think of the previous update and the context. if we were to look at this from an outside perspective it would be really random and ruined by the authors meta-knowledge.
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Antarnoth said:
But dooku knows jedi history and ruin sites.

He explored alot***

That's the point. Anakin would have no idea.

Dooku would.
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Iandude0 said:
And he has no reason to take Anakin, an inexperienced and still relatively untrained basically padawan to a lava planet that is extremely dangerous.

Just because he knows things are there doesn't mean he has any reason to actually do so.
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Antarnoth said:
Actually when he gets a year or two as a padawan, there's various examples of masters and students exploring ruins ams other areas.

I hope after a turn or two on serreno we go and do so.
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Yeah, it makes sense for Dooku to be able to and willing to suggest the idea.

And, the vote is about the conclusion drawn from meditating on the Force, so it can also be justified by one or both of them seeing a vision of Mustafar and Dooku drawing the conclusion that they should go there since it's not unheard of for Jedi Masters and students to investigate ruins such as those at Mustafar.

Then, they run into the Blackguard.
 
AllRoadsLeadTo said:
Yeah, it makes sense for Dooku to be able to and willing to suggest the idea
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Yep.

As well as we just got proof anakin has some knowledge of other force sects.
NickolasNockolas said:
"Aw, come on. The Jedi have a cool name and a code, and so do the Corellian Jedi, and the Nightsisters, and the Dathomirian Witches, and even the Sith, and also-"
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I think going to the blackguard would be good as they try to learn the methods/ways of other force traditions. They believe only the force exists and light and dark iss solely in the wielder, and thus a struggle for control.

If we want to resist Sithiness, I think a visit might be good.
 
Neptune said:
Why are some of you voting to dissolve the Republic, rather than reform it? While it is no doubt corrupt and inefficient as it is, would those seperate realms that splinter off it truly be better? They would no doubt still be corrupt and inefficient, although perhaps to a lesser scale, with the very large downside of conflicts inevitably erupting between them. Then there are the potential species conflicts that can erupt as well. I honestly just can't see the Republic even in the state it's currently in being worse than the successor states.
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Simply put, the Republic is too frakking big to survive.

Padme, for instance, represented an entire Sector of space, or at least 36 systems that had Republic membership, 40K dependencies, and 300 million barren stars.

Which is a "sparsely occupied" sector. If she were to do a thorough tour of the constituency, she'd be doing it for the rest of her life.

On top of that, they debate over EVERYTHING.
 
So I'm not quite sure I understand the plan that the majority of people are voting for is going to do? Can someone explain it.
 
Ah, so that's Palpatine's game. Make us more open to the Force as a whole, the Dark Side in particular, before dangling tantalizing bits of Dark Side lore in front of us and waiting for us to bite. It's a good tactic, but see, the thing is, we know just how dangerous this is. And we won't be doing a thing without Dooku to help guide us.

Believe it or not, Palpatine may have inadvertently give us the secret to true balance. The Jedi Code is a twisted version of the original Code, but the Sith Code is far from mutually exclusive. Peace is a lie, an unattainable goal to fight and strive for, the end of an eternal road... just because something is a lie, just because something is a dream, doesn't mean it's not worth fighting for. Because peace is an idea, and an idea will never die so long as someone exists to think it.
 
backgroundnoise said:
Ah, so that's Palpatine's game. Make us more open to the Force as a whole, the Dark Side in particular, before dangling tantalizing bits of Dark Side lore in front of us and waiting for us to bite. It's a good tactic, but see, the thing is, we know just how dangerous this is. And we won't be doing a thing without Dooku to help guide us.

Believe it or not, Palpatine may have inadvertently give us the secret to true balance. The Jedi Code is a twisted version of the original Code, but the Sith Code is far from mutually exclusive. Peace is a lie, an unattainable goal to fight and strive for, the end of an eternal road... just because something is a lie, just because something is a dream, doesn't mean it's not worth fighting for. Because peace is an idea, and an idea will never die so long as someone exists to think it.
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He also left out the part about how what people generally know as Sith are actually a fusion of the dark side half of that original group and a primitive tribe of magic(?) users.
 
darkjester said:
So I'm not quite sure I understand the plan that the majority of people are voting for is going to do? Can someone explain it.
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There is going to be a war between one party or another and Sidious is not completely responsible merely taking advantage of the galatic situation. The Republic is corrupt so it makes little sense to fight for it merely to prolong a dying diseased beast because people think a miracle cure will pop up to fix everything in ones life time. Attaching ourself to the Trade Federation would be foolish simple because of how stupid they operate let alone their politics being worse than the Republic in the open corruption yet their not wrong in the end about a need for a change and taking advantage of their separation to create our own that is just all around better would be good.

Staying out of things whether trying to run a planet or travelling across the galaxy will only work so long before the war catches up.
 
justinkal said:
He also left out the part about how what people generally know as Sith are actually a fusion of the dark side half of that original group and a primitive tribe of magic(?) users.
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Also didn't use the right code ether for the Je'daii.

There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no fear; there is power.
I am the heart of the Force.
I am the revealing fire of light.
I am the mystery of darkness
In balance with chaos and harmony,
Immortal in the Force.

Palpatine just quoted a Jedi one.
 
Tassadar said:
Also didn't use the right code ether for the Je'daii.

There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no fear; there is power.
I am the heart of the Force.
I am the revealing fire of light.
I am the mystery of darkness
In balance with chaos and harmony,
Immortal in the Force.

Palpatine just quoted a Jedi one.
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Damn, I'll get on that
 
This is fun. Glad I found it.

Any chance of a timeskip sometime soon?
 
GenoDragoon said:
Dissolving the Republic will lead to anarchy in many parts of the galaxy and those independent states that arise with varying values will inevitable get into conflict with each other. I fully recognize that the plan will be in some ways worse than the current Republic. The problem is Sidious is already got his claws in the Republic and that even without him the place is so massive any hope of real success in changing it is naive. Even when it was made into the Empire its corruption just changed forms to suit Sidious.
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And this would be worth the trillions of lives would that die? The Republic for whatever it's flaws, has been relatively stable for thousands of years and has kept the peace and discourseopen between it's members.

GenoDragoon said:
The end goal though of seperating the galaxy into independent states is so that the fat can be cut way enough that some people relearn how to govern multiple worlds and meet the values put into place. As things stablize these states will expand their borders putting order to the lawless territories, some border disputes as well, till eventually the only path to go will be recreating the Republic except this time without all deep seated corruption passed down over its thousands of years.
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They already know how to do it, the Galactic Senate isn't the end all be all. Shit gets solved all the time, hell look at Coruscant planetary population on it's own numbering over 1 trillion yet it functions, it's just when all those Galactic polities come together and their many interests collide there are issues given the vast number of parties of varying power levels. You have people representing individual planets in the Senate, entire star sectors, minority species, and corporations as well (this is where the Trade Federation kind of comes in) given the sheer scale and influence of them.

Palpatine, well I hesitate to use the word solved given the issues with his authoritarian approach to it, it with devolving greater powers to the planet's and sectors themselves. You can probably still accomplish a similar reform given both the Senators and population seem to be aware of the issues of it's current configuration you just need to get them together and motivate them. It's a relatively simple solution to the issues with great benefits if you're allowed the agency to go ahead with it, which wasn't possible given the story George wanted to tell. Sideous himself is only one person and given he needs secrecy still he can't just use his force mind powers to stop attempts at reform either and force the canon route to happen.

For the Senate itself removing planets from it altogether by creating a unanimous layer of governance between planetary and galactic benefits it as well. So you'd have sub planetary governance >> planetary governance >> star system governance (mostly the same as planetary, with the exception of systems with several highly populated planets) >> star cluster / sector >> galactic senate. This would clear some of the clutter by increasing the ability for the sector's to resolve the issues they face themselves (which solves a good deal of resentment>>hatred>>succession directed at the Senate), which then allows time for relevant galactic issues to be discussed.

Night_stalker said:
Padme, for instance, represented an entire Sector of space, or at least 36 systems that had Republic membership, 40K dependencies, and 300 million barren stars.
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Then it contradicts itself as both her and Palpatine are referred to as Senators of Naboo which is a vastly different thing. I think it may be confusing itself with Palpatine's later reforms as chancellor, but it could be possible it's right and it's a simplification because of Naboo being the most important system in that sector. I can't see it happening personally, but it's possible given it's fiction with numerous different authors with questionable political knowledge.
 
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Goldfish said:
This is fun. Glad I found it.

Any chance of a timeskip sometime soon?
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God, I certainly hope so. If I write this story the way I've been writing it, it'll take a million years to get to the part where we discover Earth and get to fight the Avengers. /s

Yeah, this story definitely needs a timeskip soon, but I don't really know how to go about it, and I want to set the stage for stuff before I do it. Gimme some time, and we'll get there soon enough.
 
NickolasNockolas said:
God, I certainly hope so. If I write this story the way I've been writing it, it'll take a million years to get to the part where we discover Earth and get to fight the Avengers. /s

Yeah, this story definitely needs a timeskip soon, but I don't really know how to go about it, and I want to set the stage for stuff before I do it. Gimme some time, and we'll get there soon enough.
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try how this quest does it maybe you will like it A Cooler Broly Saga (DBZ)
 
Neptune said:
And this would be worth the trillions of lives would that die? The Republic for whatever it's flaws, has been relatively stable for thousands of years and has kept the peace and discourseopen between it's members.


They already know how to do it, the Galactic Senate isn't the end all be all. Shit gets solved all the time, hell look at Coruscant planetary population on it's own numbering over 1 trillion yet it functions, it's just when all those Galactic polities come together and their many interests collide there are issues given the vast number of parties of varying power levels. You have people representing individual planets in the Senate, entire star sectors, minority species, and corporations as well (this is where the Trade Federation kind of comes in) given the sheer scale and influence of them.

Palpatine, well I hesitate to use the word solved given the issues with his authoritarian approach to it, it with devolving greater powers to the planet's and sectors themselves. You can probably still accomplish a similar reform given both the Senators and population seem to be aware of the issues of it's current configuration you just need to get them together and motivate them. It's a relatively simple solution to the issues with great benefits if you're allowed the agency to go ahead with it, which wasn't possible given the story George wanted to tell. Sideous himself is only one person and given he needs secrecy still he can't just use his force mind powers to stop attempts at reform either and force the canon route to happen.

For the Senate itself removing planets from it altogether by creating a unanimous layer of governance between planetary and galactic benefits it as well. So you'd have sub planetary governance >> planetary governance >> star system governance (mostly the same as planetary, with the exception of systems with several highly populated planets) >> star cluster / sector >> galactic senate. This would clear some of the clutter by increasing the ability for the sector's to resolve the issues they face themselves (which solves a good deal of resentment>>hatred>>succession directed at the Senate), which then allows time for relevant galactic issues to be discussed.
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I totally get that the Republic collapsing and anarchy rising is horrible but just because something kind of works for thousands of years does not mean it should continue. At one time it perhaps worked really well but the galaxy has grown and the outer rim where the majority want to seperate don't feel the presence of the Republic other than the obligation like taxes or military restriction.

It is kind of funny you point to the Coruscant as an example of functional government despite its immense overpopulation. The places lowest levels is one big slum where the upper levels could care less about what happens. This is literally a representation of the Republic flaws when something becomes too big to govern.

Sidious gained so much power in canon because the Republic did so poorly that even the corruption in the Republic feared it losing and they themselves losing their investment in the current government. So they handed a politician able to work all these parties a good deal of power to get things done. Now Sidious is a great manipulator that has had years to establish his position such that expecting Dooku or Anakin to match him while the man is still in the game is optimistic. Even without Sidious you have so many parties that expect to be catered to and while Sidious may have worked in betweens to get dirty work done without tainting him the man still did ruthless stuff to get favors such I don't think Dooku or Anakin would want to stoop to given that is what they find wrong about the Republic.

Even if reforms make sense they don't work for everyone. These worlds have had thousands of interaction and then back door deals beyond politics in their own little area of space. In RL all sorts of good ideas don't go through or get modified to be less effective because people have different opinion and this is just with nations one planet that lacks a world government. Also you have to consider the fact that with the Republic being thousands of years old there had to be other smart people throughout the ages with this same simplistic idea.

There is such a thing as fire being cleansing.
 
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There is no perfect system. No politics without corruption. There will always be some people who are better off, and other who are poor.

Saying that we should tear down the republic because it's corrupt is like saying we should stop eating because food isn't always perfectly healthy.

Of course the republic is corrupt. So was the empire, and so will any organisation we try to build up in place of the Republic.

That entire line of thinking is pointless.

What you have to consider is whether the galaxy will we better off without it, and the answer is almost certainly no.

A large 'united' body where some get heard and others feel ignored
Vs
An unknowable amount of years of war as people fight to gain power, only for the balance of power to change, and some people are heard and others ignored.


You seriously think the Empire is better? Or the New Republic? Think again.
 
redzonejoe said:
There is no perfect system. No politics without corruption. There will always be some people who are better off, and other who are poor.

Saying that we should tear down the republic because it's corrupt is like saying we should stop eating because food isn't always perfectly healthy.

Of course the republic is corrupt. So was the empire, and so will any organisation we try to build up in place of the Republic.

That entire line of thinking is pointless.

What you have to consider is whether the galaxy will we better off without it, and the answer is almost certainly no.

A large 'united' body where some get heard and others feel ignored
Vs
An unknowable amount of years of war as people fight to gain power, only for the balance of power to change, and some people are heard and others ignored.


You seriously think the Empire is better? Or the New Republic? Think again.
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I just saw The Big Short a few hours ago, and you pretty much just summed up the whole movie and my mood right now.

Nothing is ever perfectly good and pure. Everything is corrupt. Time to accept it.:(
 
NickolasNockolas said:
Nothing is ever perfectly good and pure. Everything is corrupt. Time to accept it.
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Bullshit.

Nothing is perfect, it doesn't mean we can't strive to make it better than it was. The Republic is bloated and corrupt by it's own power. Any people who have attempted reform without harnessing the fear of other have gotten shouted down. The Trade Federation is likely just as bad as them, if not worse. But they are fighting a war where things are meant to change drastically, and they will not have everyone on their side. The people running the organization are not idiots, surprisingly. Mislead by Palps, yes. Both systems have their problems, but I believe that were can help the TF and eventually the CIS be better than they ever were in canon. Palpatine has too strong of a grip on the Republic for us to do good there, so I will side with the only one I think we can make a difference in.

So I'd prefer to choose the side we can actually have a chance of affecting in the long run.

I believe in the Anakin who believes in this world, GM. And so should you! We can make the galaxy a better place, I just know it.
 
Hmm, if we do create a third faction, is there a way we could recruit Thrawn before Palpatine does? Thrawn would be an insanely useful ally to have.
 
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