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Persona: HEAVEN (Persona/Sword Art Online/Isekai Multicross)

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[X] Challenge『 』to a no holds barred duel in GGO

Ultimately, I trust the QM not to give us an option we have no chance of succeeding at. And while it'd certainly be easier to just take Shiro and run, I'm fairly certain that not only does that cost us a social link but it has 『 』outright out for blood if they get the chance to recover. Not really a good thing for us especially with all the other messes going on.

I get the desire to subvert the pair's delusions and beat them without playing their game, but I just don't think the nuclear option is the way to do it. We can find a better way to flip the board than this.
 
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Hell, we can break out Nephren-Ka or Archon if we REALLY feel like we'll be in for a rough time.

Divine Apex is a hell of a booster for starters, and I can already imagine a few different ways to nail them against the wall:

Use Emanation of Heresiarch on THEM before provoking them into attacking us with something we're immune to or luring them into a trap.

Use Luster Gift and then hit them with Abyssal Surge or Marin Karin

Keep them guessing with Urmetazaon while we take potshots at them with the Remington 870

Straight up spam Freidyne, Ragnarok (if Nyarly is so inclined), Meditation, or Grand Tack (the skill text says it bypasses ALL defenses)

Point is, we can, theoretically, take down BLANK unless they have a mechanic that straight up makes them immune to everything including Almighty (and I doubt pete will give BLANK an advantage that's THAT unfair).

And that's not even getting into what we can do if we're allowed to bring in party members.
 
My question is that IC, why would Hiyori entertain BLANK's game? She has just finished pillorying Kayaba on his desire to feel special and powerful trapping people in his HEAVEN (which was hell to others) and now she sees BLANK attempting to do the same thing, despite knowing everything because they want the world where they are winners.

Character wise it just feels kina off.
 
SITB said:
My question is that IC, why would Hiyori entertain BLANK's game? She has just finished pillorying Kayaba on his desire to feel special and powerful trapping people in his HEAVEN (which was hell to others) and now she sees BLANK attempting to do the same thing, despite knowing everything because they want the world where they are winners.

Character wise it just feels kina off.
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Not really? Remember that she also perceives the nascent SEED within them, and she's been written IC to want them if they're there before. I think.
 
[X] Challenge『 』to a no holds barred duel in GGO.

Fuck em. Kick them off their high horse and force them to touch grass.
 
theguynamedwafer said:
Not really? Remember that she also perceives the nascent SEED within them, and she's been written IC to want them if they're there before. I think.
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She cares about the nascent SEEDs because of the power they bring when she creates social links (otherwise she would have just ghosted Ainz), but they are working towards very goal she is all in on destroying for emotional reasons, so why would she entertain them?
 
SITB said:
My question is that IC, why would Hiyori entertain BLANK's game? She has just finished pillorying Kayaba on his desire to feel special and powerful trapping people in his HEAVEN (which was hell to others) and now she sees BLANK attempting to do the same thing, despite knowing everything because they want the world where they are winners.

Character wise it just feels kina off.
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You could say the same about the Kyouji situation though. While Hiyori did tear apart those delusions, she took the time to prep for it and set the right stage rather than just walking up and having a go at him. Playing along to give 『 』the rope we need to hang them is completely in character.

Besides, separating the two isn't even guaranteed to bring them down or knock some sanity into them, it just puts both into a bad situation that they may or may not recover from in time to come back for vengeance. Better to tear this out by the root.
 
Frozen Flame said:
You could say the same about the Kyouji situation though. While Hiyori did tear apart those delusions, she took the time to prep for it and set the right stage rather than just walking up and having a go at him. Playing along to give 『 』the rope we need to hang them is completely in character.

Besides, separating the two isn't even guaranteed to bring them down or knock some sanity into them, it just puts both into a bad situation that they may or may not recover from in time to come back for vengeance. Better to tear this out by the root.
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Kyouji was Sinon's friend though, and he had a connection with Hiyori due to Wildcard resonance to a lesser extent. BLANK is basically hated by everyone and their dog and Hiyori knows of them because they keep blackmailing Kazuma.

I guess if you believe they will come back to make trouble it makes sense?
 
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SITB said:
Kypuji was Sinon's friend though, and he had a connection with Hiyori due to Wildcard resonance to a lesser extent. BLANK is basically hated by everyone and their dog and Hiyori knows of them because they keep blackmailing Kazuma.

I guess if you believe they will come back to make trouble it makes sense?
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I believe that dropping the Social Services nuke isn't going to permanently resolve this particular issue. And even if it does, I wouldn't bet against the possibility that Sora and Shiro couldn't deploy their info in mutually assured destruction before they go down. Pyrrhic victories aren't.

Personally, I'd be happy to skip out on BLANK's games, but I have to acknowledge that we just don't have the means to pull that sort of turnaround on them right now without serious consequences. I'm sure giving them an opportunity to stack the deck against us is going to make things harder than if we took them out right away, but it also gives us the chance to make sure we can beat them in a way that they can't weasel their way out of.
 
I honestly think chaos is the play here if it comes to a fight, going for a 'game' means providing them a structure that they can play with, to find loopholes with whatever hypothetical rules are put in place
 
I feel like the ideal outcome would be to break their idea of HEAVEN and get them to side with us - whatever else, having allies that understand and can manipulate cognitive psience would be very useful and their insight into our opponents' moves would be as well. I suppose that would be the challenge them option.

Breaking the link removes them from the board quickly so there's an obvious short-term gain there but idk.

Tentative vote for:

[X] Challenge『 』to a no holds barred duel in GGO.

I'm trying to wrack my brain for a write-in though - a way to try and eschew their worldview and yet bring them to our side but I'm coming up, pun sorta intended, blank. The way they frame everything as a game means basically any option can be framed that way. But I think this comes the closest of the pre-written options - in many ways the SL Break option is playing by their worldview at its highest level - it's our "optimal" play based on the power we have over them and the threat we issued. Challenging them to a game also obviously plays into that as well. But challenging them in GGO is, strictly speaking, a bit sub-optimal for us in that we're passing up some guaranteed outcomes that would get them out of our way for little apparent (to them) gain. As Hiyori says, they're not entirely prepared to deal with people who might actually genuinely care.
 
Underdog Emiya said:
Are they aware of the power of Persona?
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No and yes. Sora is basically Tattletale, he can draw absurd connections using scraps of info but he cannot pull something from nothing. He is aware that you have powers that break vr games. He intuits that it's a form of applied incarnation and cognitive psience. He does not know about the supernatural.

Again Blank are geniuses but their overall intelligence is limited by MY intelligence. As the writer I mostly get around this by giving them more knowledge and making Hiyori less able to predict them.

Underdog Emiya said:
It doesnt have to be a VR game, right?
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The game option is a VR game, namely the tournament set on June 15th.

The theme of the fight is going to be about rules, even in the open fight. Explicitly blank's VR RD power is about rules but only one both parties agree to.

theguynamedwafer said:
Pretty sure if we break the Judgement Link there's no replacement, so we'd be missing out on the Judgement Personas permanently.
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I have no replacement handy. Itami doesn't fit well IMO with Judgment. I'll probably start looking for alternatives if broken, but no promises.

SITB said:
My question is that IC, why would Hiyori entertain BLANK's game? She has just finished pillorying Kayaba on his desire to feel special and powerful trapping people in his HEAVEN (which was hell to others) and now she sees BLANK attempting to do the same thing, despite knowing everything because they want the world where they are winners.

Character wise it just feels kina off.
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Ultimately this is a quest so there have to be options. I did include the kidnap option explicitly to just end the fight instantly.

Narratively I've been setting up the Blank fight this whole arc, but that doesn't mean it's set in stone. Kidnapping Shiro is, at least via the logic of the scene, something Hiyori can do right now that Blank truly has no counter too.

It's the same for XaXa. The theme of this arc is Chaos. During the ALO arc truth be told no matter what was chosen in the end it would've ended with a fight vs OBERON. Even if you had pubically released Asuna's accusation Sugou would've locked himself into FullDive. GGO is very different. The final fight is gonna be vs a souped up version of whoever is left, and even I don't have it set in stone. Obviously some candidates are much more deeply hidden than others, but I do have it planned that no one individual final candidate is untouchable.

I hoped for a XaXa fight in VR. I gave plenty of options to back out. XaXa's move, if he ever felt threatened in RL, was always going to be locked in FullDive to stay in the game, counting that the police would be obligated to keep him alive. That let's me preserve XaXa as a VR threat. But the votes were consistent and you opted for maximum visibility and effectiveness. Swat cut the power and him arrested before he could even react, and now XaXa can only twiddle his thumbs.

Overall it's just the woes of a quest where choices have to be offered.
 
[X] Challenge『 』to a no holds barred duel in GGO.

I think our actual age in the hole here is the third eye revealing secrets. They know a ton about us. That means we don't have very much to risk. We know very little about them, and we do really well with social leverage.

This means getting them into a place we can use personas.

Plus, the social worker threat serves well as MAD, and let's them save face with any outcome that isn't that lose condition.

Alcor said:
The way they frame everything as a game means basically any option can be framed that way.
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The way out is to challenge them on what it means to win. Because if every victory is just a step on the way to the next challenge, them there is literally no way to win the meta-game: you pay until you lose, like life.

But there is such a thing as winning and enjoying your victory, it's why people try so hard. So what is it, for them?
 
For those supporting the Social Worker plan...do we really want? Because right now our proof of the case is lackluster for a decisive victory in a legal field, I would say.

Kazuma pointed this out when we figured out the plot. We know he's giving those away and he's employed to BLANK, but is this a crime illegal enough to keep them away for a long time? Maybe keep them split for a while and under observation, but I say without hesitation we have little to work with when compared to Kyouji's case. Oh sure, we're removing them off the board for now...but here's the thing.

We know Quinella's around the corner. We know she wanted Sugou for his knowledge of Cognitive Psience - or at least something at that level. She has some measure of power and a way to keep tabs on things. Giving Sugou is already bad enough, but do we want to make enemies of some of the most absurd players in existence and give one of the final enemies a large power boost? Because I don't want to. Heck, I'm worried Kikuoka may try to grill those two for stuff related to Cognitive Psience, and they may spill the beans out of spite!
 
I'm curious if we can kneecap their plans with the help of Zeliska. That being said, I want these two in our camp, especially since Shiro could be our Futaba

The Zog said:
Kazuma once again enters the upper percentile of moral people we know solely by the fact he doesn't want to touch a little girl.
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Wasn't he kind of close to Megumin and her sister (I think her name was Koneko?). And both were underage.
 
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Also, is handy Mandy guy meant to be another isekai character? You gave him a character image and everything. Or he has a super secret squirrel seed hiding in his head about having a furry harem or something
 
That's Handyman Saitou.

His dream is to be fairly compensated for his work and for his labor to be appreciated. (And maybe snag a waifu in full plate in the process)
 
afreaknamedpete said:
I hoped for a XaXa fight in VR. I gave plenty of options to back out. XaXa's move, if he ever felt threatened in RL, was always going to be locked in FullDive to stay in the game, counting that the police would be obligated to keep him alive. That let's me preserve XaXa as a VR threat. But the votes were consistent and you opted for maximum visibility and effectiveness. Swat cut the power and him arrested before he could even react, and now XaXa can only twiddle his thumbs.
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XaXa: "If a former Laughing Coffin member not on my side were to come after me with a grudge it'd obviously be in VR so we can find out who is really the Real Dea-"

Hiyori: "No, sorry not sorry. My dramatic showdown quota is already booked for the month. Last one was awful, please be a better brother in the future."
 
theguynamedwafer said:
Pretty sure if we break the Judgement Link there's no replacement, so we'd be missing out on the Judgement Personas permanently.

Edit: Wait, QM has stated that he has Itami slated as a replacement for most broken Social Links, but, uh...do we really want him as the Judgement SL?
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Sora and Shiro are probably better people than Itami. They're just very hurt and afraid of a world where they both get abandoned and ostracized over and over for being non-neurotypical.

Really, while the social worker might try to help, the help would have gotten there by first driving both of them catatonic from separation anxiety first(like, we've seen they can't even take a bath apart without collapsing, resulting in increasingly unethical situations or friends willing and able to force them). Which is going to be a nigh impassable barrier to a Good End - you'd need to be someone who can break the rules and fuck with them without using it to just hurt them. They need a Steph thats not an instant loss meme.

They're just also mega bratty because Shiro is hyper intelligent and Sora is the same for human manipulation. Between that and parental abandonment the only positive social interaction they get are those where they have all the cards and have the other party by the balls.
The two of them probably fund their gaming habit with online scams.

Would be a treat when Augma rolls out and we can challenge them in something where the two noodly neets need to go exercise.
 
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[X] Challenge『 』to a no holds barred duel in GGO

I DO not want a fight with a man with nothing to lose with the skills and experience of a person with 1000+ hours of gaming
 
[X] Kidnap Shiro and then call the Social Worker.

Honestly I can't choose any option that lets their life continue as it is. Co-dependency to the point where they become catatonic if not in sight of eachother is just the start of how fucked up their life is. I don't care if it breaks one of our social links in the process, these two need help and they're at the point where it needs to be forced on them.
 
[X] Challenge『 』to a no holds barred duel in GGO

I doubt our chances of winning that duel, but whatever conclusions comes of it would probably be better than the ones that come from us ruining their status quo.
 
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