Zenkyoto : A Brief Overview on the History of Leftism in Japan and its influence on Otaku Culture

No. It is bad. (I can't speak for Muv Luv but I am currently publically watching GATE so.)

So MuvLuv takes place in an alternate universe where Berlin Got Nuked (Twice) and WW2 ended with Japan keeping the entire East Asian Co Prosperity Sphere- this is portrayed as a good thing. It was also forced to reform into a constitutional shogunate (There's... a Shogun who is essentially the SPIRITUAL LIEGE of Japan, but also an Emperor, but also a Prime Minister and democratic institutions). Then Aliens invaded, there was a moon war, and then they landed on earth. Most of Eurasia is controlled by the aliens except for the British Isles and (half) of Japan. Apparently there are only 1 Billion humans on earth. Also the entirety of Canada, like ALL OF IT, is a nuclear wasteland because the US nuked Athabaska when the aliens tried landing there.

So let's go down the list of "Very bad kinda upsetting nationalistic and militaristic things in MuvLuv", starting from that short summary.

-When the Aliens are overrunning southern Japan, US forces there engage them in the suburbs of Kyoto to give the Japanese military time to retreat and reform a defensive line. This is portrayed as a bad thing because "our historic buildings." The political fallout forces the US to pull out and Japan then goes "AMERICA ABANDONED US"

- The Japanese military is divided into the normal military and the IMPERIAL GUARDS. The normal military answers to the Prime Minister, and the IMPERIAL GUARDS, who only recruit from noble families and answer directly to the Shogun, get the best equipment and the most support.

- Japan develops its own mechs because its too proud to rely on American made ones. These mechs are portrayed as being ULTIMATE SUPER BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE's, but with the caveat that YOU NEED JAPANESE SPIRIT TO PILOT ONE CORRECTLY.

- So when the Aliens are overrunning, the father of a major character engages in a delaying action in Korea to let Korean civilians escape to Japan. He dies, and his family is demoted from the nobility for it, and is treated like dirt and traitors for putting the lives of Civilians ahead of the lives of Japanese Soldiers. I don't think any Korean characters appear in MuvLuv either.

- There's a military Coup in Japan, because the Imperial Guard and ultranationalist hardliners are mad at the UN and the US being in Japan to help them fight against the aliens. So they launch a Coup and kill the Prime Minister and try to restore absolute power to the Shogun. They're portrayed as wrong in their actions, but not wrong in their goals and that their deaths fighting against the counter coup and UN and American forces are Noble. Also, they kick the shit out of top of the line American F-22's with previous generation Japanese made mechs because of the earlier "JAPANESE SPIRIT".

- Now let's go to Europe. Apparently the French Revolution never happened. WW2 did, and despite Berlin getting nuked (TWICE), Germany still got split in half. Except West Germany became a 'Democratic' State but with nobles with actual power. France also had Nobles with actual power. As does the UK.

- The Stasi are portrayed as noble and tragic, hard men making hard decisions.

- Meanwhile, in Total Eclipse, a character who is half american and half japanese is told that he has to embrace his japanese heritage and abandon his american heritage to properly use a Japanese mecha. The show portrays this as right.

- In one timeline, things go wrong, and the US goes with plan "Fuck it, use super nukes on every alien hive." This goes... not good. In the aftermath, France and Canada team up to invade the US and fight them in about four wars. Meanwhile, Japan gets given Hawaii and a good chunk of the West Coast, including Seattle, as their own Sovereign territory.


-Every single thing to do with MuvLuv America. This deserves a list of its own, but the best summary of it is "Wow, the CIA makes COBRA look competent and Lawful Good!"
 
Yeah Muv Luv aside from the very questionable design of life support equipment is dumpster juice mixed with Four Loko.
 
There's a REASON that I'm so firmly against the "Bothsides" narrative of a lot of modern mecha and sci-fi shows. Because it ends up being very, very, VERY biased in favor of the Militarists/Space Nazi/Space Empire faction, or even better, just outright in favor of "Writer's idealized Japan unfettered by democracy dominant over all."
 
- Now let's go to Europe. Apparently the French Revolution never happened. WW2 did, and despite Berlin getting nuked (TWICE), Germany still got split in half. Except West Germany became a 'Democratic' State but with nobles with actual power. France also had Nobles with actual power. As does the UK.
- The Stasi are portrayed as noble and tragic, hard men making hard decisions.
...

I'm getting some very mixed messages from this.
 
...

I'm getting some very mixed messages from this.

There's a prequel set in East Germany in the 80's. The Stasi are trying to launch a coup of East Germany to reunify with West Germany. Other parts of the Stasi are trying to stop it. Both sides are portrayed as noble because they're "nationalists who believe in Germany."

Also there's incest! It isn't a MuvLuv Side Story without Incest!
 
Am I still an idiot for seeing positive portrayals of Japanese Ultranationalism, such as in MuvLuv and Gate, as bad?

Yes, you are an idiot (using your own words) for completely missing the point with Muv Luv. It's one of the biggest diss against Japanese nationalism in any media, to the point the far-right rants against it anytime a new episode comes up.
 
There's a REASON that I'm so firmly against the "Bothsides" narrative of a lot of modern mecha and sci-fi shows. Because it ends up being very, very, VERY biased in favor of the Militarists/Space Nazi/Space Empire faction, or even better, just outright in favor of "Writer's idealized Japan unfettered by democracy dominant over all."

You know it's worth pointing out that the original Gundam series that arguably started all this had what amounted to Imperial Japan fighting what amounted to Modern Japan, and pretty much came down on the side of, "The corrupt self-serving technocracy may be bad, but in the end, it isn't insanely genocidal."

And somehow, that got lost along the way...
 
You know it's worth pointing out that the original Gundam series that arguably started all this had what amounted to Imperial Japan fighting what amounted to Modern Japan, and pretty much came down on the side of, "The corrupt self-serving technocracy may be bad, but in the end, it isn't insanely genocidal."

And somehow, that got lost along the way...

This does help quantify my theory on why democracies are always corrupt and, at best, ineffectual in Japanese productions: Because they aren't based on western democracies (when they did function). They're based on Japanese One Party Democracy.
 
This does help quantify my theory on why democracies are always corrupt and, at best, ineffectual in Japanese productions: Because they aren't based on western democracies (when they did function). They're based on Japanese One Party Democracy.

I'm pretty sure if you'd asked Tomino that, he'd say "Oh, yeah. The Federation is pretty much Modern Japan."
 
Last edited:
There's a prequel set in East Germany in the 80's. The Stasi are trying to launch a coup of East Germany to reunify with West Germany. Other parts of the Stasi are trying to stop it. Both sides are portrayed as noble because they're "nationalists who believe in Germany."

Also there's incest! It isn't a MuvLuv Side Story without Incest!
Right, I remember that one.

It's just not everyday you see a work that's like, unelected, entrenched nobility? Cool. Communist secret police? Also cool.
 
You know it's worth pointing out that the original Gundam series that arguably started all this had what amounted to Imperial Japan fighting what amounted to Modern Japan, and pretty much came down on the side of, "The corrupt self-serving technocracy may be bad, but in the end, it isn't insanely genocidal."

And somehow, that got lost along the way...

UC Gundam is a bit complex in that any time Tomino had a light role in the story writing, it would swing away from his soft pacifist stance into the both-sidism of Japanese mainstream politics. It's also why the Old Guard Japanese fandom utterly despises Origin since Yasuhiko brought his strain of ultraradical activism and unabashedly made all of Zeonism a fanatic self-consuming zealous ideology.
 
UC Gundam is a bit complex in that any time Tomino had a light role in the story writing, it would swing away from his soft pacifist stance into the both-sidism of Japanese mainstream politics. It's also why the Old Guard Japanese fandom utterly despises Origin since Yasuhiko brought his strain of ultraradical activism and unabashedly made all of Zeonism a fanatic self-consuming zealous ideology.

And dunking on the federation hard as they couldn't eke out a single victory without the Gundam in the opening part of the OYW
 
UC Gundam is a bit complex in that any time Tomino had a light role in the story writing, it would swing away from his soft pacifist stance into the both-sidism of Japanese mainstream politics. It's also why the Old Guard Japanese fandom utterly despises Origin since Yasuhiko brought his strain of ultraradical activism and unabashedly made all of Zeonism a fanatic self-consuming zealous ideology.

Not gonna lie, the Origin Movies are pretty... bad about making Zeon seem cool and invincible. Like, we know, we have to show that Zeon MS are superior to the Federation's "early' Mobile Suits, but even so to have fights between them have literally zero tension or dramatic stakes whatsoever?
 
And dunking on the federation hard as they couldn't eke out a single victory without the Gundam in the opening part of the OYW
That was in the original as well. If anything Yasuhiko made the Federation more competitive (and political realist).


Not gonna lie, the Origin Movies are pretty... bad about making Zeon seem cool and invincible. Like, we know, we have to show that Zeon MS are superior to the Federation's "early' Mobile Suits, but even so to have fights between them have literally zero tension or dramatic stakes whatsoever?

It's more an issue with the tight timeline of the original animation. You really can't have Zeon running even wilder than Germany and Japan combined without having that sort of superiority. Plus, Yasuhiko's focus has always been more of the "Great River" grand opera style narratives, so pumping up the side of the protagonist (Casval) was always going to happen.
 
UC Gundam is a bit complex in that any time Tomino had a light role in the story writing, it would swing away from his soft pacifist stance into the both-sidism of Japanese mainstream politics. It's also why the Old Guard Japanese fandom utterly despises Origin since Yasuhiko brought his strain of ultraradical activism and unabashedly made all of Zeonism a fanatic self-consuming zealous ideology.

It was already starting to in Gundam Zeta and to a lesser extent ZZ. Though I maintain to this day that Zeta's problem on this front come from dropping the original "terrorists versus fascists" story for... well, what we got.
 
That was in the original as well. If anything Yasuhiko made the Federation more competitive (and political realist).




It's more an issue with the tight timeline of the original animation. You really can't have Zeon running even wilder than Germany and Japan combined without having that sort of superiority. Plus, Yasuhiko's focus has always been more of the "Great River" grand opera style narratives, so pumping up the side of the protagonist (Casval) was always going to happen.

I don't like the idea that Char is the protagonist of UC Gundam.
 
It was already starting to in Gundam Zeta and to a lesser extent ZZ. Though I maintain to this day that Zeta's problem on this front come from dropping the original "terrorists versus fascists" story for... well, what we got.
That, combined with Tomino's own depression and the demands of the sponsors. You can see how things change for the better with the reedited movie versions.


I don't like the idea that Char is the protagonist of UC Gundam.

I personally like the Greek tragedy style story of hubris, but then my political stances are far more in common with Yasuhiko than Tomino.
 
Contolism is just Ecofascism is extra steps. Char's actions in Char's Counterattack aren't a radical departure from his father's ideals, they're more of a natural progression.
Indeed, it's the final act of desperation of a manchild who never grew up from the shadow of his own tragedy, and thus goes all HARD MAN to justify his existence. It's somewhat a poetic way of portraying the self-destructive attitude of the Japanese left-wing in the final days of the 1970s.
 
Indeed, it's the final act of desperation of a manchild who never grew up from the shadow of his own tragedy, and thus goes all HARD MAN to justify his existence. It's somewhat a poetic way of portraying the self-destructive attitude of the Japanese left-wing in the final days of the 1970s.

And the entire rest of gundam misses this point.
 
That, combined with Tomino's own depression and the demands of the sponsors. You can see how things change for the better with the reedited movie versions.

It happens pretty quickly mind you--in the first episode of Zeta, it's pretty clear that the AEUG is meant to be Zeon in a thin disguise, and maybe a point this time. (Hello, "Quattro".)

And then a few episodes later, they are somehow part of the government.

That they are fighting against.
 
Back
Top