Zenkyoto : A Brief Overview on the History of Leftism in Japan and its influence on Otaku Culture

Wow this last 4 pages were a real trip, wonder if all that count as a political derail but anyways, kind of wonder in what state the manga and anime industry will be after all this CV-19 stuff ends, because honestly this thing is burning economies, politics, media empires and lives in equal manner.
It is not noticeable right now but the damages will be evident sooner or later and I find amusing how some important people burn themselves in the pyre of social media because they are getting crazy due to isolation.
 
A Zeta Gundam where the AEUG tries to drop colonies on earth and do genocides would be... interesting?
 
A Zeta Gundam where the AEUG tries to drop colonies on earth and do genocides would be... interesting?

You jest, but I have a long-standing theory that was the original idea--Kamille would help them beat the Titans, "Quattro" would give him a pat on the head and a hearty "well-done", and then the Zeon flags would pop out, and Char would begin operation "Let's drop a meteor!". Forcing Kamille to reevaluate his beliefs and alliances.
 
Wow this last 4 pages were a real trip, wonder if all that count as a political derail but anyways, kind of wonder in what state the manga and anime industry will be after all this CV-19 stuff ends, because honestly this thing is burning economies, politics, media empires and lives in equal manner.
It is not noticeable right now but the damages will be evident sooner or later and I find amusing how some important people burn themselves in the pyre of social media because they are getting crazy due to isolation.
As far as general economic issues for Japan, this has a likley chance of breaking the flat, stagnant economy Japan's had the past few years... by slamming it into a recession. How that actually applies to the anime and manga industry, beyond even deeper tightening of belts and shuttering of doors, depends on how the creation and production process can adapt. And by that, I mean the bulk of the actual animation process being outsourced to China and South Korea. Alot of companies are already at a standstill and releases canceled because they can't do business. With local authorities feel like they have to take up the slack for the national government's somewhat lackluster SOE and voluntary closings by theaters, there's probably going to lead to the familiar "working from home through technology" push. Shueisha and other manga publishers have already made that jump, and as the problem grows the weekly orders will likley grow to monthly or more.

Which means, to tie this ramble back to the main post, people already releasing webnovels and other online content are going to be getting more of a focus for 'reliable money' than ever before. Text and scattered pages colored and uncolored are easier and cheaper to produce, and what does sell well is going to be even stiffer competition to smaller, more genre-straying titles. Depending on how long work-from-home orders last, Manga may even transition to a similar business model for awhile. I really don't see the anime production process making that same leap, as the domestic part of the industry has been coming apart at the seams from overwork even with rapid expansion of outsourcing. It'd take government intervention to get the everything needed to re-domesticate the animation process. Which is not out of the realm of possibility.

Just my two cents.
 
Thank you, I finally understand why I used to like Manga and Anime and started hating it. And why modern Anime doesn't scratch my itch, and in fact pisses me off.

I used to love Nausica and other early anime, especially anything by Miazaki. Then the sexualization started taking over. And then there was the 'empty stuff' in my own early words, like NGE. Now I finally understand!
 
It happens pretty quickly mind you--in the first episode of Zeta, it's pretty clear that the AEUG is meant to be Zeon in a thin disguise, and maybe a point this time. (Hello, "Quattro".)

And then a few episodes later, they are somehow part of the government.

That they are fighting against.

I don't think the AEUG is meant to be Zeon at al. I think it's meant to be one of a number of reformations that took place after Zeon and slots neatly into the succession of "Zeon but X" ideologies that crop up after Zeon Prime gets thoroughly discredited and largely outlawed. The AEUG maintain the theoretical parts of Zeon's "Side Independence and equal rights" without the practical parts of "genocide everyone who isn't a Spacenoid because they've had it too good for too long and we need an enemy for the military industrial complex." Meanwhile, before and after the AEUG you have the various and confused Neo-Zeon movements, the Cima Fleet who are basically opportunistic pirates, The reborn Republic of Zeon as a Federation national building exercise in the same space and even much later on political regimes like Cosmo Babylonia and Zanscare. Arguably even the Jovian Empire is Zeon-eqsue.
 
I don't think the AEUG is meant to be Zeon at al. I think it's meant to be one of a number of reformations that took place after Zeon and slots neatly into the succession of "Zeon but X" ideologies that crop up after Zeon Prime gets thoroughly discredited and largely outlawed. The AEUG maintain the theoretical parts of Zeon's "Side Independence and equal rights" without the practical parts of "genocide everyone who isn't a Spacenoid because they've had it too good for too long and we need an enemy for the military industrial complex." Meanwhile, before and after the AEUG you have the various and confused Neo-Zeon movements, the Cima Fleet who are basically opportunistic pirates, The reborn Republic of Zeon as a Federation national building exercise in the same space and even much later on political regimes like Cosmo Babylonia and Zanscare. Arguably even the Jovian Empire is Zeon-eqsue.

Okay, let me explain--my argument here is fundamentally Doylist. If you watch the first few episodes of Zeta, AEUG is a lot more ruthless and ambivalent then it winds up being in later ones, pursuing far more violent risky actions, while Quattro is clearly Char and his two fellow pilots are clearly ex-Zeon. This changes fairly quickly, turning AEUG into the more or less lily-white group we see through most of the show. Now, considering that Zeta was going to be Tomino's attempt to tell a slightly changed version of the story he'd wanted to tell in MSG, of the heroes teaming up with Char only to discover that he was ultimately the greater evil, it doesn't seem like a stretch that originally the idea was Kamille was going to start out joining AEUG thinking them the noble defenders of humanity, only to discover that, yeah, they're actually the old Zeon crowd, only slightly worse. I suspect this got derailed by a combination of pressure from above when the suits got a look at just what he was putting out this time and asking him to dial it down, and the writers just losing the thread bit by bit and then all at once. And so Zeta starts trying to keep to his original idea as best it can, only to finally wind up abandoning it and just turning into "let's see how long I can keep these plates spinning."

Now, you mention Neo-Zeon--well, I have a strong suspicion that Neo-Zeon was created to fill at least part of the heavy role that AEUG was originally supposed to wind up playing, with Scirocco filling in the rest, not least due to the fact that we hear nothing of them for the initial episodes.
 
Okay, let me explain--my argument here is fundamentally Doylist. If you watch the first few episodes of Zeta, AEUG is a lot more ruthless and ambivalent then it winds up being in later ones, pursuing far more violent risky actions, while Quattro is clearly Char and his two fellow pilots are clearly ex-Zeon. This changes fairly quickly, turning AEUG into the more or less lily-white group we see through most of the show. Now, considering that Zeta was going to be Tomino's attempt to tell a slightly changed version of the story he'd wanted to tell in MSG, of the heroes teaming up with Char only to discover that he was ultimately the greater evil, it doesn't seem like a stretch that originally the idea was Kamille was going to start out joining AEUG thinking them the noble defenders of humanity, only to discover that, yeah, they're actually the old Zeon crowd, only slightly worse. I suspect this got derailed by a combination of pressure from above when the suits got a look at just what he was putting out this time and asking him to dial it down, and the writers just losing the thread bit by bit and then all at once. And so Zeta starts trying to keep to his original idea as best it can, only to finally wind up abandoning it and just turning into "let's see how long I can keep these plates spinning."

Now, you mention Neo-Zeon--well, I have a strong suspicion that Neo-Zeon was created to fill at least part of the heavy role that AEUG was originally supposed to wind up playing, with Scirocco filling in the rest, not least due to the fact that we hear nothing of them for the initial episodes.
Eh.

I mean even up til Double Zeta the AEUG was still semi-skeevy what with pretty much everything surrounding Wong and Anaheim so I don't know that I really buy the AEUG becoming less edgy as the show goes on. I think we just start to sympathise with all the characters as we (and Kamille) get to know them better so it becomes more understandable when they make decisions. I think Kamille is the main character for a reason and it has a lot to do with Tomino examining the ideology of freedom, just wars, the place of the new generation in this sphere and so on.

Another way to look at it is that the Titans (and to a lesser extent the Federation) are simply too clearly set up as Antagonists being responsible for killing Kamille's parents. There's just not enough narrative space to have the sort of triple switch up (Titans betray the Federation, AEUG betrays Kamille, Kamille joins Federation) that would be necessary to rearrange the board such that the Titans and the AEUG are both recognisable antagonists. Zeta is already a fairly 'dark' series anyway, I'm not sure how much help it needed in that regard from a face-heel turn by the AEUG.
 
Yes, you are an idiot (using your own words) for completely missing the point with Muv Luv. It's one of the biggest diss against Japanese nationalism in any media, to the point the far-right rants against it anytime a new episode comes up.

I regret tossing out my copy of the Muv Luv codex now, but when the author is talking about getting his inspiration for the series when visiting the Yasukuni Shrine for IIRC hatsumode, I find that incredibly difficult to believe.
 
I regret tossing out my copy of the Muv Luv codex now, but when the author is talking about getting his inspiration for the series when visiting the Yasukuni Shrine for IIRC hatsumode, I find that incredibly difficult to believe.
Interesting; you're going to have to be more specific than that though, since there are at least a dozen separate writers for the series. I'll look into it.
 
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I find really interesting your explanation of the far right and the parallels one can make with some mangas and animes.
But honestly while most manga try to push political agendas in some way or another and in some more visible or more subtler ways, it is in itself something that have close to no value as most of Japanese people don't care about politics, they vote but is not mandatory and pretty much all the people that do vote are old, one just need to see a picture of the current ruling body to see that most are older than 40 or maybe 50 and there are very few young people in politics, they may have lost their emperor as a ruler but honestly the tradition of being villagers and caring and doing little about who or how they are ruled is not forgotten.
The order, productivity and work ethics that make Japanese people so famous in the economics circles make them as a society pretty much self-destructive, there is a reason the shut in syndrome or hikikomori is something of a very big malaise in japan, they put so much pressure in their sons that they literally break mentally and sometimes physically, compounding it to make it worse, they as a society really abhor any show of shame, the parents literally allow them to remain in their rooms because they don't want to show any shameful display, any kind of therapy is the same, because is shameful to let a outsider to see it.
There is a forest in japan that is know as the suicide forest, they do a lot to avoid it but they still find new bodies there weekly, it says a lot about their society.
Adding to all of this is that there are less and less new births with each year that goes, there are some studies that show that japanese females dont want to marry someone that wins less money than them and in some cases they will only marry someone that can maintain them as a house wife comfortably, to the point that most males actually dont bother trying to go after girls, they prefer the 2d girls that are always there and the idols that they believe are always pure, there is a reason the rules of love and all the scandals make the idols lives pretty miserable.
As a little tip bit there is something know as the Otaku Queen, a girl that joins a circle of otaku males to be pampered, the males pretty much know she is there for the money and attention but because she acts like she cares and sometimes let them fuck her once or twice, well is not a bad trade, if she ends in a relationship with any one of them, the guys pretty much knows that all his friends and sometimes other have fucked her, there is a reason, japan hentai is full of netorare, cuckold and cheating nowadays.
I expect that by this point in 2 or 3 generations Japan and the anime and manga will be a very different thing.
Sorry for the wall of text.

The way this post generalizes sentiments about the Japanese people, and about women more broadly is unacceptable. Rule 2 requires we think about the ways in which our words speak to groups of people. Generalizing the Japanese people as villagers at heart, incapable of caring about politics, suggesting that women could only be attracted to someone that earns more than they do, and the broad statements about 'the reasons Japan hentai is full of netorare, cuckold and cheating nowadays" without any citation or evidence are not mindful of the way your words speak to groups of people.

As such, you've received a 25 point infraction under rule 2 and a 3 day timeout from the thread.
 
Well, that was an interesting way to get one's attention drawn back to a thread. Or to start a morning for that matter.

Hmm, I'm tempted to make a reply to that post, because boy it does filled with ...quite some assertions... . Thinking further about it, I'm decidedly uninterested to psycho analyze hentai, nor I think its good idea to make this thread into 'Japan issues -real or imagined- the Megathread' (because that post commentary is all over the places beyond just Japan/anime politics).

But the first part of that post do contain some claims about Japan politics, which is relevant subject and it may be informative to investigate those points via evidence finding.

So today's breakfast for me will be not food (since I'm fasting) but internet arguments it seems. Lets do this.

The claims:
I find really interesting your explanation of the far right and the parallels one can make with some mangas and animes.
But honestly while most manga try to push political agendas in some way or another and in some more visible or more subtler ways, it is in itself something that have close to no value as most of Japanese people don't care about politics, they vote but is not mandatory and pretty much all the people that do vote are old, one just need to see a picture of the current ruling body to see that most are older than 40 or maybe 50 and there are very few young people in politics, they may have lost their emperor as a ruler but honestly the tradition of being villagers and caring and doing little about who or how they are ruled is not forgotten.
Well, first off 'vote is not mandatory' is hardly a thing to slam a democractic country for. Fact of the matter is, most of democratic states in the world do not employ compulsory voting. Wikipedia claims only 22 country as of 2013 provide compulsory voting (Compulsory voting - Wikipedia). I don't count, but if you look at CIA factbooks the relative low of compulsory vote checks out https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/resources/the-world-factbook/fields/print_2123.html. Easiest example is probably USA, who does not use it. My country (Indonesia) does not use it, and yet voter turnout still reasonably high (81% in last year presidential election, rising from 69% in the previous presidential election, Elections in Indonesia - Wikipedia) . Arguments can be made on the benefit of compusory voting, but it stands to reason that 1) lack of compulsory voting does not a make a state especially bad among all other democracies 2) while compulsory voting may help, lack of it does not necessarily hamper getting decent voter turnout or citizen involvement in politics.

Next, average age of voters.
Noticeable in recent elections is the sluggish turnout among young voters. According to a sample survey, only 31.33 percent of eligible voters age 18 and 19 went to the polling stations in Sunday's election — 17 points lower than the all-generation average and a decline of 15 points from 2016.

Turnout among the 18- and 19-year-olds in Diet elections has continued to fall since they were given the right to vote — from 46.7 percent in 2016 to 40.49 percent in the Lower House race in 2017. The turnout was even lower among 19-year-olds at 28.05 percent. The problem is attributed to the presence of many youths who after graduating from high school leave their hometowns to continue their education or find jobs without transferring their resident registry, depriving themselves of the right to vote in their current place of residence.
www.japantimes.co.jp

Reverse the fall in voter turnout

Both the campaign for the Upper House election and its outcome need to be reviewed to learn what can be done to increase voter participation in future elections.
Under a revision of the Public Offices Election Act that came into effect in June 2016, the voting age in Japan was lowered from 20 to 18. Due to the combination of a low birthrate and longer lifespans, senior citizens (age 65 or over) now account for a quarter of Japan's population. And older people are more likely to vote than young people: In the most recent election for the House of Representatives (the lower house of the National Diet) in 2014, for example, 68% of citizens in their sixties went to the polls, but only 32% of those in their twenties turned out. This combination of factors has led some people to complain that Japan has a "silver democracy"—a system in which silver-haired seniors hold the upper hand and young people's wills tend to be neglected.
www.nippon.com

Teen Voters and Politics in Japan

This July, in the first national election since the lowering of the voting age, young people seemed to endorse the status quo. But voting is not the only form of political activity. Adult voters should reconsider their own approach to politics.

So it does seem bear out that there's lower interest to vote among the younger batch of Japan's eligible voters (though if you read the second article in full it notes that the goverment is aware of the problem and try to encourage youths to participate). Question though, how about in other countries? Well, it seems historically US youth tend to have lower turnout that it more aged population Youth vote in the United States - Wikipedia

Same trend can be observed in Canada: Voter Turnout by Age Group - Elections Canada

There's also this. How do you solve Britain's youth voting crisis?

I haven't managed to find a global statistics of voter turnout by age in my brief googling, but it seems reasonable at this point to say that 'lower voter turnout among youths' is a trend that happens in multiple countries. With my only brief research I also cannot say, whether Japan has this issue how much worse or less than other countries. The cited number for youth turnout from source above seems higher for USA and Canada, but the guardian cited lower percentage of voter turnout for 18-24. They are also only three countries besides.

Moving on to the average age of politicians. For this point, I fortunately easily arrived at high quality source. Straight from United Nations Development Programme, The Global Parlimentary report contains a statistics of average age The Global Parliamentary Report | UNDP

Unfortunately, their statistics is region-based, instead of country-based. But at least we got image of average distribution of parliements age around the world
Which all have its median located in the 50-60 range. There's some variation in over-60 ranges VS under-50 ranges, but otherwise there's close resemblance between each graphic. Statement such as 'most politicians aged above 40' as it turns out is a truism that apply to whole world.

For closer look, the age of demograhpy of US Congress: How Old is Congress?

Japan's: Japan

See resemblance?
The long short comment is ... if Japanese people are villagers, so is Americans, and the rest of the world :V

Less glibly, the point is while things like low young voters turnout, high age of parliament members, etc, is genuine concern in a democracy, it is also a common issue in many (all?) democratic states. There probably finer analysis and points that can be made about the problems of Japanese government and politics, as well better statistics data, but it does not appear that in Japan's record in said political aspects is not so significantly worse than other countries that it can be used to sustain assertion such as 'most Japanese people don't care about politics', at least in comparison to several other countries.

Even in the hypothetical situation where most of a country's population is uninterested in politics, it still don't make sense to dismiss analysis of political messaging in that's country media (or a category of media) as having no value, since its possible to analyze political views and activity of a subset of country population (in this case, its media creators and their audience group) on its own, regardless of how close or far they are politically from the general populace.

Moving on from refuting a post that draw attention by getting infracted, that provokes a thought on how connected the politics in anime/manga/LN with politics of Japanese population at large. It is easy to assume 'hey seems there's a lot of anime Japanese right-wingism lately' connect 'hmm, there's this and that news of Japanese right wing IRL' and to draw conclusion 'oh yeah, anime politics must reflected of mainstream Japan politics and that is right-wing leaning' ... but that seems bit too simplistic to me.

Guderian's essay did solidly shown that 70s anime messaging is tied strongly to Japanese left wing movement, but even Zenkyoto (at that time) is already a subculture rather than a reflection of general populace politics.

IDK, I obviously are not knowledgeable in Japanese politics, and I run out of mood to continue googling :V


*skim the pages of the thread* oh wow, I didn't bothered reading the thread beyond reading Guderian's polishing to the Essay (I already read the original version in SB and commented there). The talks in threads from that post and the stuffs in page 2 so forth is quite ... something.
 
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